Child Sexuality

[Ellie]

That's the point of doing studies.

It would only be pedophilia if he gained sexual pleasure from his work, or actually had a sexual experience with a child.

Who is to say when pedophilia becomes just normal sex though? If it's the age gap, then isn't a 90 year old with a 20 year old pedophilia? No, but yet an 18 year old with a 15 year old is?

 

[Fertility]

That's the point of doing studies.

It would only be pedophilia if he gained sexual pleasure from his work, or actually had a sexual experience with a child.

Who is to say when pedophilia becomes just normal sex though? If it's the age gap, then isn't a 90 year old with a 20 year old pedophilia? No, but yet an 18 year old with a 15 year old is?

It has to do with the age of consent. I think here it's 16 or 17. When you're 20 you're supposed to be able to take care of yourself, although when I see a 20 year old with someone MUCH older then them I usually think of the phrases "robbing the cradel" or "suger daddy/mama". When you're 18, you're an adult (here, at least you are), so you're supposed to know better than to have sex with a minor, and you'd be charged with a myraid of things like assult to a minor.

 

[rey meustrus]

Quite a heated discussion.  I'm just going to tell something of my own personal experiences, of which I had two, neither of which I was traumatized by, or that I even understood:

First, most simply, I remember that when I needed to go to the bathroom I learned that I could hold it in longer if I massaged my penis.  It got hard when I did this, it felt somewhat good, and it made me not need to go to the bathroom.  This was when I was like 4.  Nobody taught me to do this, and I think people around me (all adults, parents) were perturbed by this behavior.  I did not understand why, but I eventually learned that touching yourself there in public is inappropriate.

Second is an actual experience.  When I was five or so, my family had recently moved out into a somewhat rural area.  There weren't many people around.  The only person my age was a girl; let's call her Jenny even though that wasn't her name.  We would go to each others' houses and play with each other, puppet shows and running around outside and card games and stuff like that.  One thing that she wanted to do was play "honeymoon."  I can only reason now that she once walked in on her parents during the act, but I did not in any way understand the point at the time.  Basically all it was was getting in bed and making a racket and moving all over each other.  There was no concept of penetration or even joy at touching each other as I can understand now.  We didn't even take all clothing off.

And this was all entirely innocent.

My point is that child sexuality (ignoring for now older people that take advantage of a child's curiosity) is part of natural curiosity about everything that children possess.  It ceases to be innocent when it's done for the pleasure that children don't experience.  Only adults have guilty sex.  Children aren't capable of turning it into something guilty because there is no concept of guilt yet.  Guilt itself is a learned emotion anyway.

 

[ragnaroa]

One of the things I've never understood is why mommy and daddy blocked my eyes whenever a sex scene was coming in a rated R movie.

PORQUE?

Why children be blind? If they knew how to do it, you wouldn't see every other 4th grader walkin around laughin everytime someone says boobies or penis. I think we would have stronger and more mature human beings.

If you want a comparison, here you go: It's just like working out. We knew how to work out before we actually started, didn't we? We learn how to work and support our families before we have a family don't we? What is wrong with building a heads-up education? If we were told on how to work a month prior to our job interviews, we wouldnt be very good at it, would we?

 

[harbino]

I think the reason why they block your eyes, is because they feel you shouldn't see that, because it could psychologically upset young minds, also kids seem to want to be what they see on telly...... I assume its what they see as a bad influence, but then you still shouldn't be watching 'R' rated or 'X' rated movies.

 

[Ellie]

How the hell would seeing a penis/vagina psychologically upset someone's mind, even at a young age? (Seriously?) I don't mind you using that argument so long as you back it up with evidence, thoughts, further ideas, or at least something other than "but but it will hurt their innocent minds, but otherwise that sentence just annoys me to death.

 

[Venetia]

I remember when I was a little kid, my family was the type to just change or shower with the door hanging wide open. Whenever I saw private parts, I didn't even really notice them. The only thing I can remember is seeing my older step-sister's hoo-hoo when she was getting out of the shower and going "huh, it has hair. weird."

My young mind definitely wasn't corrupted by something so stupid as the human body. No no, that came much later, when I was an adolescent, and apparently my mom thought it was fun to parade around the house in her b-day suit, even when I had friends over -.-.

and she was NOT a looker :/

haha

my point is, it's only taboo if you make it taboo. If kids learn early on that bodies aren't DIRTY or WRONG, that can only help their self esteem later in life. (as long as you're not actually presenting it in a dirty fashion that is :x)

 

[Dissonance]

my point is, it's only taboo if you make it taboo. If kids learn early on that bodies aren't DIRTY or WRONG, that can only help their self esteem later in life. (as long as you're not actually presenting it in a dirty fashion that is :x)

I dunno, my mom and stepdad did a LOT to make sure that I thought it was taboo, but I was a naturally questioning child.  I always asked the question 'why' and my parents wanted to kill me every time for it, and now that I'm an adult I realize that 'why' is the most probative, invasive, and sometimes insulting question.  It asks of the very essence of you, of your motivations, and people generally like to believe that they are special unique creatures and that their lives are immune to being analyzed or being stuffed into a neat little box when hey, guess, what, we all can be.

Anyway.

As a child I was generally told that being naked was BAD and private parts were BAD and so on, but I constantly asked 'why'.  To both my parents and myself.  They would say not to talk back, and I couldn't (and still can't) come up with a reason as to why they were bad, except that they smell bad when you don't wash them regularly.  So for me, I basically learned that they were alright things if you kept em clean :3

 

[FlippyD]

Actually, just seeing naked-folk isn't damaging (duh), but sexual acts can be shocking, even without the context of parents telling you it's "bad." Shigesato Itoi (creator of Earthbound) is a prime example.

 

[harbino]

How the hell would seeing a penis/vagina psychologically upset someone's mind, even at a young age? (Seriously?) I don't mind you using that argument so long as you back it up with evidence, thoughts, further ideas, or at least something other than "but but it will hurt their innocent minds, but otherwise that sentence just annoys me to death.

Thats possibly the reason why the parents do it... because they think it will damage their minds.  Although I do remember reading about how a parent let their kid watch porn with them.  This world is crazy sometimes.

 

[Dissonance]

Thats possibly the reason why the parents do it... because they think it will damage their minds.  Although I do remember reading about how a parent let their kid watch porn with them.  This world is crazy sometimes.

How is that crazy?

Hell it's probably a more healthy introduction to sexuality then if the kid was told all his life that HIS PRIVATES WERE BAD and snuck around watching softcore porn in french late at night (read: 11 PM)

 

[harbino]

His privates were bad? Never said anything about that...

The point I made was that Porn is meant to be for over 18s.  It is sometimes the same parents that complain about games that are 18s being too violent... there are rules for a reason.

 

[Dissonance]

His privates were bad? Never said anything about that...

The point I made was that Porn is meant to be for over 18s.  It is sometimes the same parents that complain about games that are 18s being too violent... there are rules for a reason.

But the parents that would be complaining about 18+ content would not be the ones sitting beside their kids watching porn with them.

The only 'reason' for these rules is that they are trying to uphold a false morality that generally ends up with the child being harmed or restricted in an unhealthy fashion.

 

[rey meustrus]

The reason for these rules is that parents think that's what's best, without really questioning it.  Because it's taboo for them, they think it should be taboo for their children.  Perhaps it's even because they think if the child sees sex, they'll want to have sex, and that would be bad (don't ask me why, ask the Republican party; I've heard a theory that they think sex is bad because whenever they have it it is ). This is just speculation, however.  I would very much like to hear from an actual parent that teaches his/her child that sexuality is wrong (since none of you seem mainstream enough to do that).

 

[e]

I can already imagine said parent telling his/her kid :

"Sex is wrong. Just look what it brought me", he/she says, glaring at the kid.

 

[FlippyD]

I can already imagine said parent telling his/her kid :

"Sex is wrong. Just look what it brought me", he/she says, glaring at the kid.

I am SO doing that when I have kids.

Anyway, has any group had the balls to do studies for this? Wether or not kids who learn about sex ahead of time develop differently or what have you? I can only assume it's kept away from children like how parents lie about the tooth fairy and Santa Claus. Just something parents do.

That and sex is usually tied to obscure fetishes that can be violent or disgusting... Though, it could be argued that such fetishes occur because of a distortion of sexual education... Or maybe not. I dunno where I'm going, someone help?

 

[___]

Actually, just seeing naked-folk isn't damaging (duh), but sexual acts can be shocking, even without the context of parents telling you it's "bad." Shigesato Itoi (creator of Earthbound) is a prime example.

Did you actually read the interview? He was traumatized by a rape scene in a movie he accidentally stumbled into, not by the sight of a nipple. The point of the story is that putting something horrible in the same context as something beautiful was deeply disturbing for him as a child - it's still disturbing for me as an adult, I hate rape scenes. It wasn't the sexuality, it was the context. It doesn't take an adult mind that understands sex to see something like that happen and understand that something really bad is going on - even in a movie, a good actor or actress can convey the terror, humiliation, and perversion of the scene in a way that transcends understanding of the mechanics of the act.

(thanks for the link, by the way, I think the Giygas battle and the situation leading up to it is one of the most powerful moments in video game history so it was totally awesome to see it from the creator's perspective).

Back on topic, what really scares me is the double standard activists against sex education have. I was watching an interview the other day with a guy who was ranting about how Obama supposedly supported a bill which provided "comprehensive sex education" to children starting in kindergarten. The education provided to grade-schoolers was designed to educate them on sexual predation, not teach them about sex, a point totally missed by most people who are outraged about this. Anyway, confronted with that fact the guy reasserts that it's inappropriate to teach young children about anything to do with sex, even the most basic facts needed to help prevent child molestation and rape.

A few minutes later the guy turns around and says he thinks modern five year olds "definitely have some knowledge about sex" when the topic changes to whether children of that age are learning things from their peers and environment. So the guy basically thinks children are learning about sex and participating in sexual acts at a younger and younger age but also thinks it's totally inappropriate for them to be educated about the act and its consequences and he doesn't see any conflict in this line of reasoning.

This seems to be the standard way of thinking amongst the sex prohibitionist crowd. As a parent the only thing I can take from the whole debate is that these assholes are never going to get this right and I'd better take care of it on my own, because I couldn't possibly do any worse.

 

[FlippyD]

Reread what you quoted from me again.

Then reread the first 8 words of that quote.

Then reread that a third time.

 

[Dissonance]

Reread what you quoted from me again.

Then reread the first 8 words of that quote.

Then reread that a third time.

This is what you said.

Actually, just seeing naked-folk isn't damaging (duh), but sexual acts can be shocking, even without the context of parents telling you it's "bad."

NO, rape and violence can be shocking.  If Itoi had stumbled into a movie where the sex scene was loving and consentual I'm quite sure he wouldn't have been traumatized.

 

[FlippyD]

This is what N said

Did you actually read the interview? He was traumatized by a rape scene in a movie he accidentally stumbled into, not by the sight of a nipple.

This is what I said

Actually, just seeing naked-folk isn't damaging (duh)

My point was that just seeing naked people isn't damaging, it's aggressive sexual actions (sex is, y'know an energetic act between two people involving a lot of movement, sweat and without the proper context could be, and sometimes is misunderstood by children. But I guess you and Mr.N don't feel that way because you've had slow ass granny sex.)

Since what I'm trying to say seems to be constantly misunderstood allow me to reiterate it in patronizing caps-lock bold font:

JUST SEEING NAKED PEOPLE ISN'T DAMAGING AS NIPPLES AND PENISES DON'T MAKE CHILDREN GO APESHIT, BUT SEXUAL ACTION WITHOUT PROPER CONTEXT CAN BE DAMAGING TO A CHILD. P.S. RAPE IS NEVER COOL BUT SOMETIMES FUNNY.

p.p.s. Where the fuck did I say rape and violence isn't shocking?