Soul Reaver 1: Nocturne Gospel

[Skie Fortress]

I think some of you people are taking this far out of context. If you actually, open your eyes and read the posts(Minus the whole baves thing), then you'll see honest criticism.

They are just pointing out that Keinaru's game is a little 'lopsided' right now. It seems to put the story on a holy grail and claim that it's the main draw, yet there are several issues in that category. Namely the spelling and grammar mistakes, not to mention the raging innuendo.

Second, where's the gameplay? There doesn't seem to be much in that department. You have stuff listed in the feature department, but your screenshots don't back them up. All I see here are some dark maps and then Backdrops with character CGs on them.

And third, the title, which doesn't seem to make too much sense when you first read it. Sure, Keinaru explained it, but then if you HAVE to explain your title's meaning, then most times, it's a little too much. But I won't pursue the the title. Name it whatever you like.

 

[Blizzard]

As I said:

EDIT: I forgot to say: Caro, fix the title. :D

Yeah, Caro might want to use a title that reflects more the game itself.

I also think that it should be clear on first sight and Caro already said that she would do it as soon as her artist is back.
It's true that taking the resources from another game makes yours less original. But then again, don't we all take resources from other games? Or at least from other people which we don't know from resource sites which are usually poor-credited.

I agree that there is honest criticism in this topic, but that's no reason to repeat over and over what was said already.

I also agree with the poor screenshots. Most of them just show some scenes. Caro, you should add a variety of different screenshots.

 

[Starrodkirby86]

I don't want to concern myself, but being a person who looked at this whole thread, it definitely is one sided a bit to Caro, but at the other point, the opposing side deems well. I know if I were to make a post, someone is going to counter it with something better, but I'm just willing to state my opinion. I'm never a big person looking around the Soul Raves project thread over at Chaos-Project, I believe I made one post there after yoshixpert or something. I seriously cannot remember. However, I'm very concerned in this issue at the moment.

Yeah, it's criticism, especially from Chimmy Ray, but some of the other stuff has gone a little too far. Making fun of the logo, especially unnecessarily magnifying it with a whole legion of continuous post combos (C-C-C-Combo Breaker :P) is a little too much. A suggestible thing would be making at least telling Caro to make the "B" less of a "B". Of course, I shouldn't be saying bad things about...x_x Yeah...So I should shut up on that. XD

Having features without any screenshots are okay. I mean, that's how Stencyl is doing fine, as much rumored it to be vaporware as is. Let the developer prove it and see what the applesauce happens.

I don't mind all the innuendos. It's some sort of figurative language in a way, and that is somewhat healthy in a literature perspective. The spelling and grammar, those can be corrected at any point, and they're okay as long as they don't detract from the overall experience of the game to a huge decree.

I've been blabbing too much, so I'm terribly sorry. ^_^; On the plus side Caro, I'll just quote back from Chaos-Project:

That can be interpreted in soooo many ways...Hope I got the right meaning.  Wacko

I never bothered to reply this, but I might as well now, and it's really nice...Though many games don't live up to their screenshots. D: I hope this one does, no pressure though...No pressure at all...

For me, I don't know why there's so much criticism and controversy oriented here when the game has done so well on the other boards (POTM on RMRK.net D. It may be that the communities indeed are very different...*sigh*

I also think that it should be clear on first sight and Caro already said that she would do it as soon as her artist is back.
It's true that taking the resources from another game makes yours less original. But then again, don't we all take resources from other games? Or at least from other people which we don't know from resource sites which are usually poor-credited.

True that. Original content is great, but it's not wrong to go take art from another site. It shouldn't be a deduction. If so, then a heckuva lot of projects here would have such low expectations. How many Namamura Arshes have I seen? A billion! D: As long as it's not an issue of stealing (Which of course it's not, that already has been proven), then we're okay... :blush:

 

[MukanshinBlack]

Stop talking about the BAVES spam-thing.  Despain is above the law and can only give criticism in the form of trolls and spams.

Also about the stolen art...  Keinaru is using art which isn't his for a game that is his.  Kind of like when someone uses battlers for their side view battle system which wasn't made by them, or using RTP characters.  What he's doing is different, and I guess the people who wouldn't like it just don't like anime and the like.  So if you don't like the anime poses in visual novels, you won't like the game (most likely).  Also I believe he's using them in a new manner, not alike to the hentai game.

Anyways...  Uhh, I'm done.  :huh:

 

[mumerus]

Oh god, how childish.. making fun of a word that looks like a B when its actually a R while the text is right there on your faces.. that's real nice. Anyways, its better then what MOST OF YOU guys can do, or make, so I would keep that useless mouth of yours shut, or cut off your hands so no idiotic stuff you type will ever be written.
And why ya crying over pictures that she used from another game? Don't ya use the same shit too? Cmon, let's list them, Namamura (As Staroid pointed that out) and don't forget some gay Final Fantasy shit too, and RO Icons and VG music (Although it doesn't count, I saw most people using commercial game music so that means you 'stealing' them), so quit crying. It's kind of allowed if your not making any money from it, as most commercial and personal pointed that out, if Caro making money, then it will turn for the worst, but that's not the point or case.  And pointing out the whole hentai deal, Caro did mention its Adult theme, but from the reaction of most people here, I'll just assume that ya are little children who have yet to hit puberty or still in the middle of it.
Oh? Criticism? Ya sure know how to give a good pointer or few, by spamming, it doesn't help to post spam and said "omfg is criticism Im trying to help you" bullshit.
But really, let's get serious over here, spamming nonsense and pointless crap doesn't do anyone any good, even if ya repeating it like retarded parrots.


Anyways, I'm done, need a break, and one more thing, act your age. We don't go spamming on your dumb and pointless topic, don't bring your pea-sized brain here if your not going to be serious and actually help someone then idiotically say something.

 

[Anonymous]

Excuse me, but I am failing to see what art was stolen here. I can't remember seeing anywhere in the credits Caro claiming the she or one of her associates made the graphics. Ever heard of "fair use"? She isn't even required to credit the "stolen" art as long as she is not seeling the game commercially. In that case she would need to pay the owners for the rights to use their artwork of course. And as I can see, she gave a link to the site where she got the artwork from. That is actually more than sufficient.

I call bullshit on this. It's not at all legal to use that art in the game, we just turn a blind eye to it just like we do to rips and to copyrighted music. I really don't give a shit about this game but as an artist who's had thier work 'fairly used' uncredited before I am fucking FURIOUS that people like you are spreading the idea that it's perfectly fine to do it. Being distributed for free doesn't change anything.

 

[Keinaru]

. . . I just woke up & I see all this.

@Mumerus, I know your trying to help, but your post sounds like trolling & flamming, (no offence).

@Chimmy Ray: I have agree that the Grammar & dialogue, but in some parts, you sound like your complaining for a bad product & was going to fail to me what I read.


@Heck, everyone: I'll fix the grammar & Title. Spoke with Hanzo about it, & it would've been great if someone pointed the last things that was said about the features.  I think you all made a point already.

 

[Blizzard]

I call bullshit on this. It's not at all legal to use that art in the game, we just turn a blind eye to it just like we do to rips and to copyrighted music. I really don't give a shit about this game but as an artist who's had thier work 'fairly used' uncredited before I am fucking FURIOUS that people like you are spreading the idea that it's perfectly fine to do it. Being distributed for free doesn't change anything.

You can ALWAYS go to the game maker and request to be given credit for your work. If he doesn't want to credit you, you can sue him. The law works that way that only the original creator(s) can sue and nobody else. And they can't sue you if you credit them. If your work has been used uncredited, why didn't you contact the maker and asked to be credited? Credit often gets lost if distributed for free. I've even encoutered somebody using a script by me without the script header containing the credits. If you want your stuff to be safe, use a license as I do. Nobody dares not crediting if you have a license and legal backup.

But let's not go offtopic anymore.

 

[Zaich]

Shouldn't this only be illegal if the person tries to pass the work off as their own?
Also it was never claimed anyone on the team made this...
Besides if they're not making a profit, sueing would be a waste of the companies money.

This game looks great,

And I can't stand how people are acting like such arrogant critics when they couldn't make something half as good themselves.

 

[mawk]

I don't mind all the innuendos. It's some sort of figurative language in a way, and that is somewhat healthy in a literature perspective.

Innuendo is perfectly fine if used sparingly. When the female protagonists allude to "sword length" in a lewd fashion whenever possible, though, then you know you have a problem. In a game with mostly teenage protagonists, it'd actually make sense to pay respect to their raging libidos once in a while, however: One of my biggest problems with RPGs is that the developers constantly make the mistake of turning otherwise plausible characters into sluts or fanservice to net the "thirteen-year-old boy" demographic. I hope that this game will know where the line between "tasteful" and "fap festival" is, but we'll have to see.

Innuendo is like salt. It can improve things in certain situations, but don't you dare use too much or put it anywhere near that ice cream.

Oh? Criticism? Ya sure know how to give a good pointer or few, by spamming, it doesn't help to post spam and said "omfg is criticism Im trying to help you" bullshit.

Did you read any of my posts? Like, actually read them? The only ones that I actually address to the game and its creators are the long ones. Some of them sound kind of nasty (and I apologize, :x) but I never intended to spam.

@Chimmy Ray: I have agree that the Grammar & dialogue, but in some parts, you sound like your complaining for a bad product & was going to fail to me what I read.

What? o_O

I can't really discern what you're saying here. If you're talking about the tone of some of my posts, I really apologize for that -- I dunno why, but I've been nasty these past few days. I'm actually thinking of stepping down or leaving temporarily to find out what the hell is wrong with me. :x

All the drama about the anime art

I'm sorry if I sounded like I was saying "OMG that's illegal you should take it out." I use very colourful language sometimes, and I guess I misspoke, but my intention was never to allude that Keinaru was doing anything illegal. My definition of "theft" is "taking without asking." In this situation, it just happens to be perfectly legal and quite all right. My major point was the fact that it made the game look rather generic.

And I can't stand how people are acting like such arrogant critics when they couldn't make something half as good themselves.

I'm tired of people who use this argument to debunk legitimate criticism. My personal skill does not matter two balls' worth when it comes to my criticism, especially since I haven't actually posted anything here projectwise yet amd you have no idea what I'm capable of. I could be an amazing spriter and musician, for all you know. Would that have any bearing on my ability to detect potential flaws in a game and point them out? No!

As for everything else... My first posts? I can understand why you'd be angry at me for those. Apparently if I'm in a bad mood it shows through no matter what I'm saying. For the rest, though, you shouldn't react this way just because crit isn't dripping with compliments.

To make a game, and to make it well, you need good and bad criticism. Good crits to tell you what you're doing right, and bad to let you know what you need to change. This game will not turn out as well if everyone clusters around the creator to tell him that everything is perfect the way it is -- because, frankly, it isn't.

 

[Blizzard]

Nobody asked you to give only good criticism. I appreciate if somebody tells me that I made a mistake. Then I know and can fix it instead of ignorantly believing that everything is alright while others laugh behind my back for making the same mistake over and over. This doesn't apply just in game making.

But on the other side giving only bad criticism (even if constructive) can be discouraging. Praise what should be praised, that's what I say. As for the rest, try to be nice and give some pointers. Again, constructive criticism is the keyword. Saying something about something you don't like should be followed with an advice how to improve it. Even if it's not a good one, it's better than nothing.

Just a side note: @Chimmy Ray: If you're really acting different it might really be a good idea to take a off a few days. I'm in a similar situation the last couple of days (personal problems big time). But since I don't want to go offline, I'm trying to make my mood not be reflected in my posts as much as possible. Of course this doesn't always work. (-_-')

 

[mawk]

You have a point. I figured that Keinaru had received plenty of compliments by this point, so I kind of focussed on the bad, but in reflection that was probably just my bad mood talking. I think that Keinaru's first job should be increasing the diversity in his screenshots section -- I could very well be missing some things that very well deserve compliments because most of his screenshots are dialogue scenes. As it stands, all I can really say is that merging a dating sim with an RPG seems like an interesting idea, and I'd actually like to see how it plays out. The graphics and story seem to be good compared to a lot of things I've seen, but that doesn't mean that they don't still require a lot of refinement (especially concerning grammar and diction -- Keinaru, is English your first language? If you're still learning, you might want to think of asking someone who speaks English fluently to proofread your game's dialogue and make necessary changes.) The gameplay is something that I really haven't seen much of. If Keinaru would spread his (her?) focus a little more evenly between those three aspects, it could only be to the good.

 

[Blizzard]

Yeah, that's a good idea the grammer. English is my third language and I also have somebody fixing my grammar. xD

 

[monkeydlu]

dang, third? lol, your better than quite a bit of people seen on the internet, but oh well, internet's the internet.

it's personally my second language, but some times I can't say I get really bothered when a game has bad grammar, I mean, I'll get annoyed if it's, just, bad to a stupid level, but sometimes it just feels natural, but then I see a whole bunch of nit picks of the grammar... or maybe I'm just bad (I prefer lax) enough to never notice...

but yeah, I'm one of those people who can't read past 5 lines of most posts, but oh well, that said, I've never bothered reading "all the way through" the project topic... lol, though I've read just other summaries and stuff, the grammar isn't great... Still, it's not like it's... terrible terrible, cuz I think everyone here knows what terrible terrible is, it's (alot) better than her IMs, so at least she's trying.

 

[Zaich]

I personally also didn't find the grammar too bad. I've seen much worse, even in proper RPG's *cough* FF7 *cough*

 

[mawk]

"This guy are sick."

It's really not a matter of "well it's no so bad," because even a little in the way of grammar and spelling errors can easily jolt someone out of their suspension of disbelief. If at all possible, it's best to ensure that the language in a game is proofread as well as can be, just to avoid knocking a player off his mindset balloon.

 

[Ashramaru]

Let me just say one thing. The problem with this game is the author and all the fanboys can not take criticism. When I came on and listed a few things to change, everyone was like "AHHA the Sky is Falling", come on. I have yet to play the game, but odds are I won't simply because if I wanted to watch an Anime or read a book, I would read Dante' Inferno, and go watch Code Geass. There's nothing this game presents that is original, the story is sadly cliche, the art style is from another game, and the author is shamelessly bumping the game with small updates, which can be simply shown in the Screenshot topic.  I haven't been in this community for a while, but this game is a waste of RMXP's capacity. Let me rip FFVII Graphics and art and put a game together with it, what would you say in that situation. It just seems like the majority of people are blinded by the flashy anime, which I might add is from another game. Normally I am level headed but I cant stand to read the compliments the game is receiving when there is really nothing that impressive about it at all.

 

[Lonewolf]

Let me just say one thing. The problem with this game is the author and all the fanboys can not take criticism. When I came on and listed a few things to change, everyone was like "AHHA the Sky is Falling", come on. I have yet to play the game, but odds are I won't simply because if I wanted to watch an Anime or read a book, I would read Dante' Inferno, and go watch Code Geass. There's nothing this game presents that is original, the story is sadly cliche, the art style is from another game, and the author is shamelessly bumping the game with small updates, which can be simply shown in the Screenshot topic.  I haven't been in this community for a while, but this game is a waste of RMXP's capacity. Let me rip FFVII Graphics and art and put a game together with it, what would you say in that situation. It just seems like the majority of people are blinded by the flashy anime, which I might add is from another game. Normally I am level headed but I cant stand to read the compliments the game is receiving when there is really nothing that impressive about it at all.

I was so pissed reading some of the lines here...
YEAH RIGHT, THAT'S CRITICISM, pfffttt... whatever...
are you here guys for complaint & grievance?
Come on... this isn't criticism at all this is insulting the work that keinaru puts on her project...
yeah it isn't her art, nor yours... like what other said on the recent post,
Millions of project I've seen is RTP related, Nakamura's Artworks, Arshes here Arshes there
Saying "this game is a waste of RMXP's capacity" is very insulting
your just like telling her to stop this work and letting her down
does she have to bend on her knees and say 'Forgive me for i am fucking not perfect to do what  you fucking want'
thats perfectly a terrible c&c, you should stop there...
Her project was crowded with arguements dont you think your post will help this thread to be as good as you wanted?, Spit that out. Your not helping...
i mean YOUR NOT HELPING at all... Fuck off

Keinaru, I'll fix your logo for their fuck sake
Just give me time to prepare on your request again
The Grammar is terrible, but yeah... so was mine, English is not my 1st language ~ Japanese Here
Why dont you ask someone (like a writer) to rewrite your story and lines to fix those grammar errors
Using that CG's is not bad at all, your not going to come with any profit($) with it anyway,
You just need to credit the original makers the way they should be credited
Don't let this morons kill your project,
Your still making your effort... thats all

Yeah guys, harsh criticism is the best way to motivate someone's work
the question is... Is she really having some motivations on improving her work in your fucking criticism?
The answers should reflect how this topic goes on

Goodnight everyone,

-Lonewolf

 

[Keinaru]

Fixed the 1st Page. No more Grammar Issues, Except in the screenshots who are subject to change.



@Ashramaru:  It matters wether you like it or not . . . but "thanks" for the Comment.

 

[monkeydlu]

go watch Code Geass.

lol, to much to read over, but I did look over yours and first part of Lone Wolf's, anyways, there needs to be less arguing over this, even when everyone seems to be putting in so much shouting, for some reason I just can't feel the excitement anywhere... or maybe thats just cuz I don't read...

well, either way, Go watch code geass O_O Because this week was a omfg eps O-o