xgamexfreakx
Member
ahh geez....mixed response? that's not a good sign. Ah well, bad news is better than no news!
RPG Breeze (Cancelled)
- Thread starter aphadeon
- Start date
Glitchfinder
Staff
Well guys, I've got most of it from Theory, and I can attest, you will have mixed responses. I'm not going to spoil Theory's announcement, but I will say that the entire thing gave me a severe set of mixed emotions for a little while. Don't worry too much, however, because the project is not being dropped by the side of the road like so many others have been.
Alexander Morou
Sponsor
There's a lot of things that could cause such an ambiguous message to be given. Fast track programs are typically good because they're done quickly, but this also has its drawbacks. Design errors that might have otherwise been caught can go unnoticed.
It's either a structural problem, PR problem, sponsor issue, or a technology related issue that has to do with the project's foundational goals that someone who's got a vested interest disagrees with.
Or the very notion of a problem is meant to stir people's thoughts about the product, get them interested, eager, and so on. Only person at this point who can say is theory.
It's either a structural problem, PR problem, sponsor issue, or a technology related issue that has to do with the project's foundational goals that someone who's got a vested interest disagrees with.
Or the very notion of a problem is meant to stir people's thoughts about the product, get them interested, eager, and so on. Only person at this point who can say is theory.
Glitchfinder
Staff
Alexander Morou":177jlzo4 said:
Or me, but I'd rather let theory deal with the announcement. As to charging more and donating to charity, it's way off the mark, as you guessed. And as for a cease-and-desist-letter, we haven't recived one, or, if we have, Theory hasn't mentioned it. As I said, I'll let theory deal with it.
Well, here it is. A day late and a dollar short, but I wanted to be sure before I announced it.
I'm assuming the general response will be somewhat as nuclear as mine was. Not an easy decision to make, and an even harder announcement.
We're having to restart the codeside development of Architect.
The portion of RTP developed is still intact; we have not received any notes from Enterbrain, and our project is so far defined from their products that any threats from them would be considered idle and groundless; We are not abandoning the project, or anything along those lines. If anything development should go quickly, as it's mostly a matter of converting existing source code into a new language.
Which brings us to the cause of this change: technical limitations. I recently announced that we were recreating Lucid Awakening as a demo project for Architect. Upon attempting to recreate this, we found scripting to be too difficult to expect the general public (especially those spoiled by Ruby) to adapt to. It was difficult for me, and I've worked with dozens of languages [no master scripter, but usually I can at least find my way around.]
The new platform will be XNA with both OpenGL and Simple Directmedia Layer (SDL) integrated. The scripting language will be Lua, a much simpler step from Ruby, and benchmarked much faster than our previous BriskVM. The OpenGL support will be script-exposed to the maximum, and is only present for more advanced hardware acceleration features such as rotation and pixel-by-pixel special effects. Lua is a very simple language to learn, runs about 6x as fast as Ruby on average, 3.5x as fast as BriskSL.
Supported systems will be Windows, Macintosh, and (surprise) Xbox 360 Live Arcade [contacting M$ for marketing info, but at least under community games if not full blown live marketplace.] I'll try to build enough of an emulation platform to support Linux, but no promises at this time, and probably not for the first release. Linux and XNA hate each other. So does Mac, but I found a nice 3rd party compiler that is able to workaround that limitation. Can't guarantee full speed for Mac, as that's something that will be more of a wait-and-see, although after initial release we'll give Mac users equal tenant on bringing their side of the product up to par.
More news. We're starting to talk to boxed game vendors. If they do take it up, I'll have a lot less control over pricing, but at least it will grow to have a respectably sized community. We plan to make the marketplace accomodate this, hosting not only community release demos, but an in-program browser that can display and download the latest releases of games, demos, scripts, content, and more. It also supports indie sales, allowing you to sell your game (guidelines suggest about $2 for an average game.)
The aforementioned features will all still be in line for the project. If anything, this move will gain new features, support, and performance levels. I'm looking into the possibility of an advanced perspective, slightly breaking the solid 2D look. It will work similarly to Mode07, though much simpler to use and without the tileset perspective issues.
Live zoom (without lag) will also be supported thanks to the magic that is hardware acceleration.
Anyhow, to wrap this up, the final announcement, and the one that I will receive the most hate mail for: the release date of the product is unfortunately being pushed again, likely a significant amount of time. On the other side of that coin, however, the ease of development these simpler languages bring means more rapid development overall.
I appreciate all of your support and understanding so far. You've demonstrated a high level of enthusiasm and support for something you've seen little of. I ask that you understand that this decision was not easy for me, either. But after 3 days of consideration, I've determined it's the most effective way to proceed. I made the mistake of fast-tracking development to where it was out of my hands. This time around, I'll be active in the project's development myself. No more excuses about "the development team". It's officially on me. As such, I assure you, it will have 100% of the vision that brought the concept to be in the first place.
If you have any questions, or suggestions for me, by all means, let me know. If you're angry with me, I understand, but for the sake of this project, let's keep the maturity level of this thread intact.
I'm assuming the general response will be somewhat as nuclear as mine was. Not an easy decision to make, and an even harder announcement.
We're having to restart the codeside development of Architect.
The portion of RTP developed is still intact; we have not received any notes from Enterbrain, and our project is so far defined from their products that any threats from them would be considered idle and groundless; We are not abandoning the project, or anything along those lines. If anything development should go quickly, as it's mostly a matter of converting existing source code into a new language.
Which brings us to the cause of this change: technical limitations. I recently announced that we were recreating Lucid Awakening as a demo project for Architect. Upon attempting to recreate this, we found scripting to be too difficult to expect the general public (especially those spoiled by Ruby) to adapt to. It was difficult for me, and I've worked with dozens of languages [no master scripter, but usually I can at least find my way around.]
The new platform will be XNA with both OpenGL and Simple Directmedia Layer (SDL) integrated. The scripting language will be Lua, a much simpler step from Ruby, and benchmarked much faster than our previous BriskVM. The OpenGL support will be script-exposed to the maximum, and is only present for more advanced hardware acceleration features such as rotation and pixel-by-pixel special effects. Lua is a very simple language to learn, runs about 6x as fast as Ruby on average, 3.5x as fast as BriskSL.
Supported systems will be Windows, Macintosh, and (surprise) Xbox 360 Live Arcade [contacting M$ for marketing info, but at least under community games if not full blown live marketplace.] I'll try to build enough of an emulation platform to support Linux, but no promises at this time, and probably not for the first release. Linux and XNA hate each other. So does Mac, but I found a nice 3rd party compiler that is able to workaround that limitation. Can't guarantee full speed for Mac, as that's something that will be more of a wait-and-see, although after initial release we'll give Mac users equal tenant on bringing their side of the product up to par.
More news. We're starting to talk to boxed game vendors. If they do take it up, I'll have a lot less control over pricing, but at least it will grow to have a respectably sized community. We plan to make the marketplace accomodate this, hosting not only community release demos, but an in-program browser that can display and download the latest releases of games, demos, scripts, content, and more. It also supports indie sales, allowing you to sell your game (guidelines suggest about $2 for an average game.)
The aforementioned features will all still be in line for the project. If anything, this move will gain new features, support, and performance levels. I'm looking into the possibility of an advanced perspective, slightly breaking the solid 2D look. It will work similarly to Mode07, though much simpler to use and without the tileset perspective issues.
Live zoom (without lag) will also be supported thanks to the magic that is hardware acceleration.
Anyhow, to wrap this up, the final announcement, and the one that I will receive the most hate mail for: the release date of the product is unfortunately being pushed again, likely a significant amount of time. On the other side of that coin, however, the ease of development these simpler languages bring means more rapid development overall.
I appreciate all of your support and understanding so far. You've demonstrated a high level of enthusiasm and support for something you've seen little of. I ask that you understand that this decision was not easy for me, either. But after 3 days of consideration, I've determined it's the most effective way to proceed. I made the mistake of fast-tracking development to where it was out of my hands. This time around, I'll be active in the project's development myself. No more excuses about "the development team". It's officially on me. As such, I assure you, it will have 100% of the vision that brought the concept to be in the first place.
If you have any questions, or suggestions for me, by all means, let me know. If you're angry with me, I understand, but for the sake of this project, let's keep the maturity level of this thread intact.
Alexander Morou
Sponsor
Good luck with your re-architecting. The important thing here is to not just realize mistakes were made, but to keep moving forward.
I hope Microsoft responds favorably.
Edit:
I'm not sure if this will help you any, but if I'm correct a company named Semantic Designs is focused on building a business model around software that's goal oriented towards software re-engineering, effectively allowing people to transition from one infrastructure to another by using powerful parser, flow, and analysis tools to retarget the code from one methodology to another. I believe their CTO is Ira Baxter (he posts on comp.compilers, and knows a ton more about languages than I do.)
If anything it might enable you to meet a much quicker goal than originally intended, provided the tools are as powerful as stated.
I hope Microsoft responds favorably.
Edit:
I'm not sure if this will help you any, but if I'm correct a company named Semantic Designs is focused on building a business model around software that's goal oriented towards software re-engineering, effectively allowing people to transition from one infrastructure to another by using powerful parser, flow, and analysis tools to retarget the code from one methodology to another. I believe their CTO is Ira Baxter (he posts on comp.compilers, and knows a ton more about languages than I do.)
If anything it might enable you to meet a much quicker goal than originally intended, provided the tools are as powerful as stated.
blakependragon
Member
if it makes it better, and more importantly, easier to use, then who cares?
i'm no fan of insta projects, they to me don't sound reliable.
i have plenty of things to do, whilst i wait for this to be released.
now less control over pricing sounds bad, but oh well.
i'm no fan of insta projects, they to me don't sound reliable.
i have plenty of things to do, whilst i wait for this to be released.
now less control over pricing sounds bad, but oh well.
well after all that all I can say is:
PHEW!
With the lead-in posts on this one I was afraid the project was going to get scrapped! I am SO relieved...
I'm good with waiting, like the old ketchup commercial says, "Good things come to those who wait"
so, Theory, with the pricing control out of your hands, does that mean those of us who were slated for demos will still get them? Or will those be re-routed by the new pricing guys?
so this means you HAVE to have an internet connection to use RPG::A? That really sux, the only computer I have the internet access I need on it is here at school where we CAN'T do stuff like RPG::A. Crap. My laptop is internet-challenged and I won't be getting any internet on it. like ever.
PHEW!
With the lead-in posts on this one I was afraid the project was going to get scrapped! I am SO relieved...
I'm good with waiting, like the old ketchup commercial says, "Good things come to those who wait"
so, Theory, with the pricing control out of your hands, does that mean those of us who were slated for demos will still get them? Or will those be re-routed by the new pricing guys?
theory":hlflj5hs said:
so this means you HAVE to have an internet connection to use RPG::A? That really sux, the only computer I have the internet access I need on it is here at school where we CAN'T do stuff like RPG::A. Crap. My laptop is internet-challenged and I won't be getting any internet on it. like ever.
@ Rico - those prelisted for beta access will still get it. I'll have "influence" over the price- and this is all hypothetical, assuming that a publisher will take the title.
Also, an internet connection will not be required, persay. Strongly, strongly suggested, but not neccessarily required. I'll have some option for people without internet access to use the program, but it will probably involve registering a new project file online, and bringing a keycode to the non-internet computer.
I just know from my own experiences that RPG Maker was ripped off badly- thanks to torrents, very few actually pay for it. I'm not wanting to get rich, but if I can get enough to support the program full-time, it would make a notable difference in the level of updates and support.
I'll do what I can for you. I don't know exactly what that is at this point, but whatever it may be, I'll do it.
As for Non-OOP - with the game system we're designing for it, this shouldn't be too much of an issue.
Also, an internet connection will not be required, persay. Strongly, strongly suggested, but not neccessarily required. I'll have some option for people without internet access to use the program, but it will probably involve registering a new project file online, and bringing a keycode to the non-internet computer.
I just know from my own experiences that RPG Maker was ripped off badly- thanks to torrents, very few actually pay for it. I'm not wanting to get rich, but if I can get enough to support the program full-time, it would make a notable difference in the level of updates and support.
I'll do what I can for you. I don't know exactly what that is at this point, but whatever it may be, I'll do it.
As for Non-OOP - with the game system we're designing for it, this shouldn't be too much of an issue.
Glitchfinder
Staff
OK guys, you've seen the announcement, and you've told us what you think. Now, we've just got some serious work to do before we can actually release anything. Also, one thing theory didn't announce was an upgrade with my level of help. I am now going to be much more involved with the design of our version of RGSS than I was before. (And no, we haven't decided on a name for it. Former possiblities included LOL (Lua OnLine) and LGMs (Lua Game Modules))
Lua Lua wooowooo we gotta go...duh duh duh duh duh duh duh
oh Lua lua wooowooo we gotta go...ya ya ya ya ya
lol
I'm glad theory's getting help, maybe now he can sleep heh heh =P
well whatever is best for the program, theory...if you'd rather not do an offline version I completely understand, especially if it will make RPG::A that much more secure
oh Lua lua wooowooo we gotta go...ya ya ya ya ya
lol
I'm glad theory's getting help, maybe now he can sleep heh heh =P
theory":hjpliy4d said:
well whatever is best for the program, theory...if you'd rather not do an offline version I completely understand, especially if it will make RPG::A that much more secure
Glitchfinder
Staff
jaydenfox":1gpxr3vu said:
Actually, we'll have to recode everything in XNA, which will be mostly Theory's job. Not that it's too difficult to recode the source files for Lua so that the 360 can use the program. The main difficulty at this point is simply making sure Microsoft would accept it, so there would probably have to be limitations on how importing/exporting of files is handled on the Xbox version. (Which, in retrospect, might make things easier. You'll know exactly where each file was saved, and it will be much easier to give someone else the project, if we are allowed to export that) The real reason for the limitations is that Microsoft wouldn't want anyone to be able to edit the files on the Xbox hard drive, be they for other games or the Xbox OS itself.
Ricoman":1gpxr3vu said:
Well, he never said that he wouldn't be making an offline version. He's looking for a way to encrypt it so that the project can't easily be activated by someone who hasn't bought it. I've actually thought of a few suggestions for him, but I haven't given them to him yet. And no, an encrypted CD would not be an option, because those are pretty easy to copy and use. Actually, one of the best ways to encrypt it is on a per-computer basis, but that requires an internet connection. I actually have a couple of screensavers that are like that, and Adobe Photoshop can do that as well.
We're looking for the iron cross between pure raging power, for our scripting phreaks, as well as ease of use, for our mild-mannered RPG enthusiasts. This cross appears to be Lua. As we're still in the research and prediction phase of transition, which we should have spent more time on originally, there is the open possibility of a platform change. If this happens, it will be within 72 hours, at which time the game is set and all that's left is to play.
As far as graphics help... Mainly our need falls under icons, from items to interface. Or if you meant the pipeline side of things, like OpenGL, we could use any advice we can get. OpenGL is something I wanted to opt out of, but found that the sacrifice would be well worth it. The ability to zoom, scale, rotate, distort, mask, and effect is a great suffix for the small price of a few closed scripting methods. I'll at least expose a wrapper for them.
More updates soon.
As far as graphics help... Mainly our need falls under icons, from items to interface. Or if you meant the pipeline side of things, like OpenGL, we could use any advice we can get. OpenGL is something I wanted to opt out of, but found that the sacrifice would be well worth it. The ability to zoom, scale, rotate, distort, mask, and effect is a great suffix for the small price of a few closed scripting methods. I'll at least expose a wrapper for them.
More updates soon.