Doctor Who Discussion Thread

[Incognitus]

... So you have no problem with Plastic Rory - who comes "back from the dead" thanks to Amy's memories and eventually (?) manages to overcome his Auton programming due to the Power of Love - but do with Dalek bomb Bracewell deactivating himself by the Power of Love, and the Doctor planting a fnord in Amy's mind as a means of bringing himself "back from the dead" thanks to Amy's memories? :|

 

[Petros]

He was brought back from the dead by the Autons, that wasn't Rory as the killing of her suggested. It was a copy, a plastic clone of him using the residual pieces of information gathered from the past (though I don't quite understand how these got left behind, explain moffat, explain). The power of love thing is such a deus ex bullshita, there's no given explaination for it except "Amy is special" How is she fucking special! No rhyme or reason was given, it's the worst kind of overly sentimental crap that RTD used to come with. If they explain it next season sure it'll give answers but they didn't focus on WHY she was special at all, what was SPECIAL about her, hints, clues? Nothing, nope she's just special, and given that this is the 3rd time we've seen her be "special" I would have liked SOMETHING to explain it, just SOMETHING that was said this season otherwise it looks too much like a plant and pay off with no explanation, I mean that's screenwriting 101. They needed to plant something about why she was special, not just what she can do because she's special, and they needed to plant it this season so that we're not left thinking like I was "Oh come on...". They say she's special, but give no indication as to why she's special, not what she can do because she's special. Repeating myself here I know, but it's just a bit, eh.

It reminded me of Bad Wolf - Why the hell does Bad Wolf remind her to go back for the Doctor. Again also the first season for Moffat so these things can be excused. Hopefully next season will be even better, I did love this year, it's better than Season 4 and the Specials, about on par with Season 1 but not as good a Season 2 & 3. One last point is to compare this idea of "human power" to another, let's say, in Last of the Time Lords, the Doctor's Gaining of power. It was done well because the human race used a single thought amplified by a network of satellites all at once whilst the Doctor (who we know has psychic powers) tuned himself into that network and used all that psychic ability to "regenerate" as it were. This time, what just the power of love brings peace and stops bombs. It's not explained, it's not a well written plot device, I hope to god they don't leave it at that and explain WHY she is special next season. Sorry, this is something I had to get off my chest.

 

[Incognitus]

The power of love thing is such a deus ex bullshita, there's no given explaination for it except "Amy is special" How is she fucking special! No rhyme or reason was given, it's the worst kind of overly sentimental crap that RTD used to come with. If they explain it next season sure it'll give answers but they didn't focus on WHY she was special at all, what was SPECIAL about her, hints, clues? Nothing, nope she's just special, and given that this is the 3rd time we've seen her be "special" I would have liked SOMETHING to explain it, just SOMETHING that was said this season otherwise it looks too much like a plant and pay off with no explanation, I mean that's screenwriting 101. They needed to plant something about why she was special, not just what she can do because she's special, and they needed to plant it this season so that we're not left thinking like I was "Oh come on...". They say she's special, but give no indication as to why she's special, not what she can do because she's special. Repeating myself here I know, but it's just a bit, eh.

Yes. Yes you are.

Amy was special because she had lived all her life next to a crack in the universe. The Timefield flowed through her dreams every night. Her mind was the only thing in the universe attuned to the raw matter of purest cosmos. The Doctor said it right out.

He was brought back from the dead by the Autons, that wasn't Rory as the killing of her suggested. It was a copy, a plastic clone of him using the residual pieces of information gathered from the past

Oh, no, no, no, no, no. [<- say as Patrick Troughton]

At the Wedding, Rory remembers that he "was made of plastic". The Doctor turns to Rory earlier in the episode and speaks of the power of memories, telling him that, when the Nestene Consciousness used the imprint of Amy's memories, they "got more than they bargained for", and essentially conjured up Rory's "soul" instead of a duplicate image. Rory had feelings - like Bracewell in "Victory of the Daleks". Having those feelings was the sum of his humanity.

One last point is to compare this idea of "human power" to another, let's say, in Last of the Time Lords, the Doctor's Gaining of power. It was done well because the human race used a single thought amplified by a network of satellites all at once whilst the Doctor (who we know has psychic powers) tuned himself into that network and used all that psychic ability to "regenerate" as it were.

Sorry, but you must be the only person (who isn't due to hit puberty any year soon!) who thinks that the ending of Last of the Time Lords was good. :smile:
Whenever I see anything satirizing how to write a crappy ending to a Doctor Who series, they always - without exception - bring up Last of the Time Lords. (Not the TV Movie though: that never existed) :crazy:

Frankly, I think the entire third season was a bit of a mess. I thought the only enjoyable bits of the finale were at the end of Utopia - everything from Professor Yana finding his watch onwards, and that was only because it was a nice entertaining twist.
There was zero character development throughout the series; characters changed, oh yes, but it all occurred off-screen.

And who the hell is Martha? Why do we even care?

"I *do* believe in Timelords. I *do*! I *DO*!" :haha:

One series just did it a lot better than the other.

 

[Petros]

The third season had 42, Human Nature, Family of Blood, Blink, Utopia, The Sound of Drums, Last of the Time Lords all in a row. That's not a mess, that's an incredible season.

 

[Holder]

I didn't like 42 at all, I didn't see any time to get to know or like an of the characters, and it was all too rushed. It was one of those episodes where I wish they still did it in the old style of a little shorter with more parts. Thanks america :sad:
Human Nature & Family of Blood was based on a book, which they pulled off very well. I really enjoyed these ones.

(Not the TV Movie though: that never existed)

Actually they could have made that movie more important if they had of went along with what actually happened in it with what was going on in the third season.

Spoiler: Movie event leading to season 3

Master falls into the heart of the Tardis
Rose opens the Heart of the Tardis and absorbs it
Doctor takes the energy out of Rose and regens
Doctor then puts himself into the Watch
Then the watch opens and the doctor returns to normal
Master resides inside the Watch
The child, now an old man keeps the Watch
Kept safe until the Utopia episode the watch is opened and the Master takes over another body prof. YANA
-Unless he was granted more regens I can't recall-

Would have been better than portraying him as a scared TL and running away.

 

[Incognitus]

The third season had 42, Human Nature, Family of Blood, Blink, Utopia, The Sound of Drums, Last of the Time Lords all in a row. That's not a mess, that's an incredible season.

42 was pointless. It wore it's premise too openly on it's sleeve so that it sucked any sense of narrative right out of the story.

Human Nature/Family of Blood: It was okay, and well-acted- and the score was great; Murray Gold really out did himself.
To be honest though , the book was more interesting, and actually made the fact that it felt disjointed compared to the material around it a plot point.
Furthermore, the book actually makes the distinction between John Smith and The Doctor easier to follow, and I found it easier to get emotionally involved with the characters, and their choices. Besides, the book shows that, even when he's not around, the Seventh Doctor is still a master chess player!

Blink - I'm not going to deny this one. Blink is the sole highlight of Season 3.

Utopia/The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords: There is little good to be said about this trilogy. The setting of Utopia was fantastic and underused - the whole idea of trying to escape the heat death of the universe... and Derek Jacobi carries the whole thing. David Tennant isn't up to his usual high standard, John Barrowmen has made Harkness about as irritating as he is, and obviously Freema Agyeman is a on-screen Void.

The moment Yana opens the watch and we get his portrayal of the Master - dark, brooding, and powerful - I thought we were going to get a great finale... but then they went and regenerated him into John Simm, retconned his character, and turned him into the Joker and presented a weak plot in which the only interesting parts happened a.) off-screen and b.) not at all.




In conclusion, Season Three (with the exception of Blink) should fall into a Time Crack.

 

[Incognitus]

(Not the TV Movie though: that never existed)

Actually they could have made that movie more important if they had of went along with what actually happened in it with what was going on in the third season.

Spoiler: Movie event leading to season 3

Master falls into the heart of the Tardis
Rose opens the Heart of the Tardis and absorbs it
Doctor takes the energy out of Rose and regens
Doctor then puts himself into the Watch
Then the watch opens and the doctor returns to normal
Master resides inside the Watch
The child, now an old man keeps the Watch
Kept safe until the Utopia episode the watch is opened and the Master takes over another body prof. YANA
-Unless he was granted more regens I can't recall-

Would have been better than portraying him as a scared TL and running away.

The Eighth Doctor Adventures feature the return of the Master (as well as slowly retconning the events of the movie out of existence. RTD *couldn't* have gone ahead and bitchslapped all the people who put effort into keeping "the series" going, by retconning specific plot points out of existence.

 

[Ellie]

Donna was also called "special" but we never found out what was special about her (or did we?)

 

[silver wind]

In conclusion, Season Three (with the exception of Blink) should fall into a Time Crack.

get out

I didn't like Last of the Time Lords though. The doctor was so.. useless. I also wish they wouldn't have changed the actor when the watch opened.

 

[Ellie]

I do like the Master though. I forget his actor's name, but if you like him, I recommend the series Life on Mars (it's a 1970's cop drama based around a time-travel plot, VERY good series).

 

[candle]

I do like the Master though. I forget his actor's name, but if you like him, I recommend the series Life on Mars (it's a 1970's cop drama based around a time-travel plot, VERY good series).

Just don't watch the American version. Like always, we ruin any good Brit show we copy.

 

[Ellie]

What there's

an american version

fck that it's a BRITISH COP DRAMA

 

[candle]

At least we haven't copied Ashes 2 Ashes... Yet.

 

[Holder]

Donna was also called "special" but we never found out what was special about her (or did we?)

Donna Nobel, A 'temp' from bla bla bla anyways:

Donna for the latin Lady
Temp as in Tempus Latin for Time
Nobel as in Lord


But yeah like most of the things I tend to work out, it doesn't happen how I'd have liked.

 

[Incognitus]

Donna was also called "special" but we never found out what was special about her (or did we?)

She's the fasted temp in Chiswick; 100 words per minute!

If you interpret it literally, then I think it's supposed to be Dalek Caan's fault. But then, when confronted with it, Dalek Caan simultaneously confirms and denies everything.

However, I thought the better resolution was that Donna was special - in the same way the Doctor finds everyone to be special, important, and so-on, no matter how trivial they might appear to be.
She just had no sense of self-worth (when we first meet her) and, due to the various outside influences (The Doctor, Rose in the alternative timeline) came to have some sense of her own value.
In each timeline, the external influences proved to be... misleading. I thought the apex of her character was that moment in "Turn Left" when she gambled her life to save the world. There are very few people who would or could make that choice at that moment, or even conceive of something like that working... and she consciously made a decision to step under a van.

^ Is this coherent? ._.

 

[Incognitus]

I do like the Master though. I forget his actor's name, but if you like him, I recommend the series Life on Mars (it's a 1970's cop drama based around a time-travel plot, VERY good series).

I like John Simm, and I thought his portrayal of "Madman-who-wants-to-conquer-Earth-and-then-the-universe-because-he-has-a-banging-headache" to be very compelling.

I just wonder what he would have been like playing The Master.

 

[Holder]

Nice Incognitus. There was that bit with the visible skull where I though he was seeking another regeneration or something like that, but nah - RTD "I'll just give him super powers"


Oh has anyone heard any information about the box set DVD of this series containing bits from in between the episodes, called something like "What happens in the TARDIS"?

 

[Guest]

;D

 

[Guest]

;D

 

[Incognitus]

I've kept the finale on my planner.

The moment the universe goes Kablammy in "The Pandorica Opens" and the "Something Borrowed" scene from "the Big Bang" still make me want to cry like a baby.

Anyone following the Sarah Jane Adventures?

I've started watching this season solely for the upcoming "The Death of the Doctor" episode, featuring Matt Smith and Katy Manning reprising her role as Third Doctor companion Jo Grant.