Curing Homosexuality?

[___]

It would be interesting to see studies done on the impact of positive cultural opinion of homosexuality on the rate of homosexuality.  It might be hard to control for the rate of fakers on both sides of the fence - heteros prone to feigning homosexuality on the one side vs. homosexuals hiding their feelings for fear of persecution on the other.

 

[Trevlac]

The bible clearly states "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." Leviticus 18:22

That is to say, that to believe in God is to believe in his infoulable word.  And as such, you are taught to feel compassion for the poor souls misguided into a lifestyle that the devil has tempted them with.  End of debate.

Now, that that's been taken care of, it also says that I'm supposed to be able to own slaves if they're from a neighbouring country, but I can't find a decent Canadian for sale anywhere.  (Leviticus 25:44)  And I'm not sure what to do about my room mate who works on the Sabbath (Exodus 35:2), should I smite him?

Leviticus is full of over 100 laws that are impossible to keep up with. It also states you can't wear two articles of clothing made from different fabrics. As such, it is important to note that the Tanakh (what Christians call the Old Testament) is not a Christian text, it is a Judaic text written in Hebrew. So if you're a Christian, you pretty much just have to follow the prophet Yehoshua of Nazareth (Greek name, Jesus).

Back on topic, there is no "cure" for gay. It's a combination of genetics and socialization. You could temper the mind so that the social gay is gone or at least buried, but the genetic attraction to the same sex will remain in the brain. your brain makes connections with neurons and you don't just simply drop those connections at will. That's why addiction is so hard to break.

 

[kaze950]

Is there actually any proof homosexuality is genetic? Saying homosexuality is a choice doesn't imply people wake up one morning and choose to be gay. Many of the choices we make are sub-conscious, which might include sexual orientation. I mean, I wasn't born a heterosexual. When I was 4 years old, I didn't have a sexual attraction to females. For all I know, I only am heterosexual because society deems it the "normal".

And the new testament condemns homosexuality as well.

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals.

But, like I said before, even if you believe homosexuality is a sin, so what? Sin is inevitable. I haven't met a Christian who doesn't openly sin, even if they don't realize it.

 

[boon]

I haven't met a Christian who doesn't openly sin, even if they don't realize it.

No-one can possibly be sin-free, you're right. Everyone has sinned, even as a young child.

You cannot call Homosexuality a disease. It's a frame of mind. Some people don't want to be gay, but they are just attracted to their own sex.

Man homosexuals hide it, and marry a woman to cover it up. Others, will have a sex change or dress like a woman.

There isn't anything wrong, but it has been in the news lately about discrimination against gay children/children with gay parents in schools, and I think that is wrong. Children at very young ages grow disriminative against homosexuals, and that's the one thing that has to be stopped.

Sure, scientists should make a way to change your sexual preferences if you don't want to be gay or if you do, but apparently it can be done now through Hypnotism.

Anyway, that's just my view on it.

 

[Sithjester]

And the new testament condemns homosexuality as well.

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals.

Nope. That's a modern interpretation, there was no word for 'homosexual' as we know it in the Greek it was written in. To quote http://www.whosoever.org/v4i5/heaven.html <~ that site, though I've seen this many places (and have looked the word up):

"In 1 Corinthians 6:9 and 1 Timothy 1:10 we have a word that has been at times translated "homosexual". But first remember that the New Testament was written primarily in Greek. The Greeks didn't have a word which corresponds to our word "homosexual". The Greek word here is arsenokoitai. Historian and linguistic expert John Boswell translates it "male temple prostitute", a man who was paid to have sex in a pagan temple as a means of offering sacrifice or homage to a heathen god."

Regardless of how one translates the word, 'man' is definitely a part of the word, so it CAN'T mean 'homosexual', since that implies women. lol If you google the word, you'll find plenty of studies and sites pointing out that the New Testament doesn't actually say anything about homosexuality. Not that it really matters to me, a non-Christian, but the majority of the country IS, so I'd rather they not discriminate against me and such because of a simple misinterpretation.

 

[Trevlac]

I'm a non-Christian too, Sithjester, and I've noticed a trend: Non-Christians usually have better knowledge about the Holy Bible and Judaic and Christian texts than the religion's followers do. This is especially evident in where I live, the Bible Belt of America.

 

[Caesis]

I think any pills that greatly affect things are stupid.

Abortion. Sex change. Un-Homo. Its all stupid, imo.

Personally, I'm homophobe.

I'd love all homos going back to straight. However, whats the pill gonna do? Most gays are gay because they want to be, thats how they live their life. Yeah.

 

[Dissonance]

One - It is possible to change sexual orientation. If you are exclusively gay, and have been since before you can remember, it's possible to become exclusively straight.  It's a lot of work, and in my opinion it's totally not worth it, but there are documented cases where people have changed their orientation.

Two - What does it matter if it's a choice or if it's genetic, or if there's a way to cure it or not?  Let's assume being gay IS a choice, and a person chooses to be gay.  What reason do we have, as a society, to force them to choose to be straight?  What logical connection is there between "Yes, being gay is a choice" and "We should force them to choose straight"?  Is being gay turns out to be a choice, it should be regarded like choosing to be a vegetarian, or not.

 

[mega_man_aXe]

I think any pills that greatly affect things are stupid.

Abortion. Sex change. Un-Homo. Its all stupid, imo.

Personally, I'm homophobe.

I'd love all homos going back to straight. However, whats the pill gonna do? Most gays are gay because they want to be, thats how they live their life. Yeah.

And I suppose most people with depression are depressed because they want to be, and most people take craps because they want to take craps, and most people want to be born with a mental retardation because thats the way they want to live their lives.  No, its not. 

People are born how they are, we can choose to take some paths in life and others we have no decision on.  I see bisexuals as having a fetish for the same sex, but homosexuals are just merely attracted to same sex.  When I see a female I'm attracted to, I get turned on.  I can't describe it, it just happens!  Whats so hard about understanding that it is just the same for a homosexual, except it happens to be the same sex that they are attracted to?

 

[second_crimson]

I really don't believe anyone can change their orientation completely. Yes, they can reverse their natural thinking and act in a certain way, but I do not believe that person will ever be happy, since they're going against how they were supposed to be.

Most of my life I prayed that being gay was a choice, or something I could 'fix.' Not because I felt like I was sinning, or I was unhappy with guys, but because I really could have done without the threats and attempts on my life, being disowned by my father, losing jobs, being kicked out of church, having my stuff vandalized, not being able to marry someone I love, and not being able to hold my partner's hands while walking downtown.

Does that mean I'd take the "cure" now if it were readily available? Absolutely not. I realize that being a gay man is not easy at ALL, but it's also my lot in life. It's how I was made and I'll be damned if I'm gonna let society change me, I should change society. If anything, this hardship has made me oppose "cures" and want to undermine the social stigmas and biases that lie at the heart of the need for a "cure."

 

[GrooveMan.exe]

WOAHWOAHWOAH Did I just read someone saying "People are gay because they want to be"?

That's just... wrong. I mean, who would actively choose to be exiled by common misconception and social stigma? That's right, no one. I really, really, wish I wasn't gay, but it turns out I am. A magic cure-all pill would be nice, but those kind of things don't actually exist; and brainwashing is just as dangerous, if not more.

So you learn to live with it. Given the choice I would much rather be straight (less complicated romances, and not having the occasional person look at you funny? SCORE), but I'm not going to force myself into a straight relationship, when (as it stands) I can have a happy one with another guy. It's not 'because I want to', it's 'making the best out of the situation'.

 

[Tindy]

I love that people are debating with people who are saying essentially the same thing. Makes me lol.

Anyway, in regards to the earlier posts:

Saying that you will become gay if you're around gay people* is like saying that I (all 5'2" of me) will become tall if I hang around tall people.  Sorry, no.

Saying that children will become gay if they're raised by gay parents is like saying that children raised by straight parents will become straight.   While this is mostly true, here's a newsflash: a grand majority of gays come from straight parents. 

Gender identity and sexual tastes are very different things. Many psychologists agree that we learn to be girls from mommy and boys from daddy, unless our brains are wired abnormally.

I was raised by my dad, mom barely, if ever, in the picture.  I'm the most maternal and feminine girl most of my friends know. This is just one of the many reasons why I hate psychologists.

*Now, you can be persuaded - but more than likely, you won't suddenly say "Gee golly, being gay is for me!" Unless you were already thinking about it.  Just the same as the homophobes won't suddenly say "Gee golly, gay people are SWELL!" because we're trying to persuade them otherwise.

 

[rexxzecutioner]

Saying that you will become gay if you're around gay people* is like saying that I (all 5'2" of me) will become tall if I hang around tall people.  Sorry, no.

Not entirely accurate. While it is true that this is not a constant, objective fact, there is supportive evidence of homosexuality being a learned behavior influenced by various sorts of stimuli. Your analogy was a false one, I would say.

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

Just to be a prick...
While I agree that hanging around people of a type does not automatically make you of that type and that people get hung up on it (oh my god I sat next to a gay man, oh no I'm gay D is a stupid thing.

HOWEVER.  Look at it as a lifestyle not a physical setting.
If you hang out with a lot of kids who listen to music using whatever urban street talk sect people refer to nowadays, guess what you'll start sounding like?  Chances are you'll start picking up the culture's mannerisms and such.  Now go hang out with the death metal kids, and the same is likely to happen.

Not necessarily.  Of course, they could be very small touches.  Almost unnoticeable even.  But for others it will be a larger and more noticeable change.  Take me for example, I hang out with one group who are heavily Italian and I start talking like I'm an extra on the Sopranos.  Take me a step away and with this other group, and instead of the Italian New York accent I got the Irish or even Yiddish New York Accents.  Slap me in with someone else and I sound straight out of Spanish Harlem.

Now.
I can start talking one way.  I can even start acting one way.
And for most people if it sounds like a duck, and looks like a duck... well, now the minds made up isn't it

And yes.
If I hang out with two people in particular who are EXTREME west village flamers, I'm going to start sounding and acting very disco.


EDIT:
And I for one do actually get taller hanging out with tall people.
My height fluctuates seemingly.  I go from 5'11 to 6'1 rather easily.  It seems when I'm near tall people, I "stand a little straighter".

 

[Nachos]

Saying that you will become gay if you're around gay people* is like saying that I (all 5'2" of me) will become tall if I hang around tall people.  Sorry, no.

Incorrect. Being around gay people all the time it doesn't mean you'll become gay, but you're being mentally influenced. It's like dialects. If you are a German and you travel to Switzerland, they speak Swiss-German, you'll probably start speaking like that.

 

[Anglachel]

Yeah, I just posted another symposium topic but there isn't a limit so...

I've seen this a lot, it's on the TV right now actually.  Someone claiming to be able to cure homosexuality, either threw a regiment of "reeducation", pills, therapy, prayer - and any combination of the aforementioned really.

Right now I've got some guy, holding a mini bible, going around what looks like the East Village in a sound stage, talking to "healed heterosexuals", about their experiences.  So, I was just curious if truly people can wake up and *snap* not gay, is it a cure - or a mass brainwashing?  Pun intended.

Can you pray and have your "illness" disappear?
Can you take a pill, and be attracted to Dave not Eve?
If you talk about your fillings, will be attracted to the opposite sex?
I find this kind of hard to believe, honestly.  The only thing I can look at other than 100% false statements is that the only system that could work would be "reeducation" - obviously repetative brainwashing to forcefully remold someone into the preset defaults we want.  Thoughts?

/end overly weak opening post for a debate.

I have't read the thread yet so excuse me, (6 pages!). It's amazing what placebo can do. I have't done research to back it up but I've seen a huge number of examples where some new therapy claims to heal people, and it works, if they believe it. You see people that get massive benafit to things that have no scientific backing in favour at all despite being researched. Placebo? Could it work to 'cure' homsexuals too? I think it could in some cases.

 

[Diaforetikos]

As with Anglachel, I haven't read the whole post either, but I will say this. Homosexuality is a choice. Now people will say no its not, I don't want to be like this or I was born like this. You can't be born a homosexual. Impossible. Our organs don't allow it. And it is a choice because if you really didn't want to be that way you would take action and try to change yourself.

People tell themselves, "I'm gay and theres nothing I can do about it." If you are saying that, then you automatically tell yourself its natural. Its not. In science, religion, it just doesn't work that way.

Someone will ask me, whats wrong with being a homosexual. The only thing wrong with it is that it kills off humanity. Now I'm not saying everyone is gonna turn into a homosexual, but if you are a homosexual, you can't reproduce. Adopting is a nice thing, but its a lie homosexuals use to fill in the child birth(and life) gap.

Another thing people look at is that some animals are homosexual. The thing about that topic is that animals aren't smart. They can get very close, but a humans mind has so much more depth than a animal. What does this part have to do with being a homosexual you ask? Humans can feel right and wrong. Animals can't. They barely comprehend what there doing. A dog sees something they like, they hump it. They don't know any better. But as humans, we do. We were giving the gift of choice in our lives. We choose before we act. Thats why you can't compare animals to humans on a homosexual level.

On the topic of being "cured" of homosexuality, thats impossible. You can't cure something thats not a disease. You can change people though. I am a Christian. But before you jump on the accusation bus, I'm not just basing my words just off of Christianities views, but also my own. A person who is a homosexual can change, willingly. Homosexuality isn't a natural thing, its a mindset. Depending on the situation, homosexuals usually come from any of these sources: rape victim, curiosity, not being with a women, lack of success with a women, attraction toward the male physique(not the actual penis and butt, but a mans build. Think of a manly women), child molested, early childhood brainwash, teenage brainwash, adulthood brainwash, atheism, wanting to be different, the thought of naturally being a homosexual due to political and media views, and a couple others I can't think of right now. The thing about all of these sources is that they are experiences, not natural instances.

Homosexuals usually seem to feel the urge to give up on being straight due to one of these experiences. In the bible, God say, "Ask and you shall receive." Now belief in God is a whole different subject, but one has to willingly give up there beliefs in order to be relieved of their homosexuality. Homosexuals tend to be open minded unless its Christianity due to its views from the bible about being a homosexual. I read someones post here about how pastors claiming to rid people of there homosexuality. This can be true, but only if they are willing.

One more thing. If being a homosexual isn't a bad thing, why do they always feel ashamed of what they are? Forget about people saying its not right, forget about biblical views, the media, and politics and think deep inside and ask yourself, does it feel right? Does becoming a homosexual help you rid yourself or drown out the memories of any of the experiences I mentioned above? Does it help you cope? Do you feel right about it? I am not trying to make someone feel bad about what they think they are. I just want to see how you feel about it.

I'm sorry if any of my comments weren't clear. Just respond to this message and I will be happy to clear anything up.

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

As with Anglachel, I haven't read the whole post either, but I will say this. Homosexuality is a choice. Now people will say no its not, I don't want to be like this or I was born like this. You can't be born a homosexual. Impossible. Our organs don't allow it. And it is a choice because if you really didn't want to be that way you would take action and try to change yourself.

A guy I know isn't attracted to Asians.  Another friend doesn't like white men, she's really only attracted to really tan or black/brown.  A friend of mine only likes fat women, he's not attracted to almost anything else unless it has big butt, thighs, or breasts.
Someone else really only likes thin women.  Like Paris Hilton looks fat, that's how thin the women he likes are - the wind on these women makes you afraid they'll snap in half - god how does he find them?! how many can exist?! - and yet another hates dark haired beauties.  Another doesn't like black women.  Another doesn't like short, tall, whatever.  You name it.

Me, I'm almost rarely attracted to blondes.  There's really only been 3 blondes that I know that I've ever thought were sexy.  There have been women who dyed their hair, and it just kind of stopped being sexy.

That I can chose?  I can wake up one morning and suddenly be attracted to blondes?  My friend who likes the BBW can suddenly bang the chicks the anorexic dude was chasing, with full on attraction?  Or is it, only gay people who can chose - but everything else is fine?

Someone will ask me, whats wrong with being a homosexual. The only thing wrong with it is that it kills off humanity. Now I'm not saying everyone is gonna turn into a homosexual, but if you are a homosexual, you can't reproduce.

If you are a Catholic priest you can't reproduce, if you are a rapist and convicted you might be chemically castrated and can't reproduce, if you are a lonely geek you might never get laid or reproduce.  Condoms stop people from reproducing.  Birth control.  The morning after pill.  Abortion.  Sudden infant death syndrome (SIDs).  There are thousands upon thousands of possible ways someone can be alive and never have the opportunity to reproduce, that doesn't make it wrong.  It just makes it... well nothing, it just makes them not reproduce.  Some people would look at that as a good thing.

Adopting is a nice thing, but its a lie homosexuals use to fill in the child birth(and life) gap.

That I have no argument for, or a witty remark like I might've some other day.  That just seemed really low as I read it right now.

To call it a lie seems to signify that there is no bond or connection to be had and the kid is nothing but a large bowl of chocolate ice cream tucked in between some bon bons on a nice comfy couch while watching Oprah.  Something to binge on to deflect a void.
Does this also apply to straight parents who are unable to have kids?  Is this buying the puppy for the little girl just to stop her from nagging?

One more thing. If being a homosexual isn't a bad thing, why do they always feel ashamed of what they are? Forget about people saying its not right, forget about biblical views, the media, and politics and think deep inside and ask yourself, does it feel right?

I know a black woman, she's very old.  She lives down the street and suffers from some weird disease so it's difficult to understand her, but she's gotta be in her 80's.  White hair, tiny little hands all crinkled up.  She feels ashamed only about two things.  Getting old, and being black.
Does that mean being old and/or black is bad, simply because she feels bad about it?  You don't feel bad about something unless you have a reaction.  If I lived in a bubble where I could break things without ever once seeing a negative reaction do you honestly think I wouldn't break something?

No.  She feels bad because she comes from a time, and she's from the deep south too.  Beautiful accent.  She feels bad because she comes from a time where she was treated like shit.  Remember the 60's, the whole deal with the racial issues - guess what?  They made her feel horrible.  God gave her, in her own words, the challenge of being black - in her head it's the same as being physically handicapped.  I laugh at times in a sardonic way when I catch the Boondocks, Red or whatever his name is reminds me of her in a sad way.

I used to steal.  I still do honestly.  But I used to be a little sonovabitch and stole everything I wanted.  It was fine.  I felt no guilt.  And I was raised by religious people, but no bad reactions.  Then I stole something and someone was very angry with me, and called me names and treated me differently and my 7 year old self felt very bad about that.

Sex?  Never felt guilty or bad about having sex.  Other people I know to this day feel guilty, some are frigging married and they feel guilty at times.  Why?  Something dirty and taboo?  No.  Just it was a negative reinforcement.

Give someone a negative reaction enough times, or even just a large enough one - get half the world to do it to - and they'll think drawing a picture is an evil deadly sin.  They used a crayon, they're scum.

 

[Ellie]

And that, is why sexty is an admin.

I just wanted to say:

Adopting is a nice thing, but its a lie homosexuals use to fill in the child birth(and life) gap.

How. The. Fuck. Can "adoption" be a lie? It's a thing that's done, you know... like... walking. That's like saying:

"Walking is a lie..."

You know? A verb cannot be a lie. It just... grr, I dunno, it just annoys me, this whole frigging statement. People do adopt, so how can it be a lie?

If you mean by "adoption is a lie" that adoption is wrong, then you need to have a massive rethink, because leaving hundreds of kids with no parents, or unwilling parents, or foster parents, is just wrong. (Foster parents as in what my aunt is - they have to leave after like 5 years and go to a new parent, so they don't get emotionally attached).

I just don't get what you mean, at all...

 

[Anski]

How. The. Fuck. Can "adoption" be a lie? It's a thing that's done, you know... like... walking. That's like saying:

"Walking is a lie..."

You know? A verb cannot be a lie. It just... grr, I dunno, it just annoys me, this whole frigging statement. People do adopt, so how can it be a lie?

If you mean by "adoption is a lie" that adoption is wrong, then you need to have a massive rethink, because leaving hundreds of kids with no parents, or unwilling parents, or foster parents, is just wrong. (Foster parents as in what my aunt is - they have to leave after like 5 years and go to a new parent, so they don't get emotionally attached).

He is saying that the thought of adoption is a lie is that it is only used to fill an unfulfillable gap any other way, not that it isn't real or can't be done. Gay couples can't have children through any other means, so they adopt one to fill the space, but it is considered a lie to hide that they cannot truly have their own child.