you'd let your kids go to school with Gary Suraci?

[sixtyandaquarter]

@sixtys first post
Im not saying penis' or vaginas are more suited for sex, im saying that penis' work better for sex when paired with a vagina than they do when paired with another penis. Or asshole. etc.

Wait for it...

Jesus guys, what im saying is that when you put a penis in a vagina generally you will orgasm faster and harder than in any other body orifices.

First, let me just point out one thing.

No. Nope. Nada.

I can tell you I've never orgasmed from vaginal sex in under 10 minutes no matter how raw and kinky it was. A good head session - damn I'm not afraid to admit I can top out at 5 minutes if it's that good. Then again, that was only this one girl, and she had this awesome trick and... oh sorry, I should stay on topic...

You may think that anal or oral sex is much better, but youd be with the minority.

I could find the survey... but to be fair it was so badly put together. Not the info as far as I could tell, just the presentation. Over 80% of people would rather get oral sex (notice people, not just men) than have any other sexual practice on the first date.
If you haven't noticed, check any comedian. Any who isn't 40 and white.
You'll find even the neo feminist are going to be talking about oral sex.
Check out your favorite search engine's word searches. Blowjob is always (out of single practices IE: teen blowjob doesn't count) above any single practice.
I've had to write a paper on the subject matter. I had to find out which people preferred - it was the worse paper ever because my little 19 mind in college found this way too funny, but it's true.
People dig oral sex.
Anyone otherwise finds it disgusting - they have every right - or morally wrong. That is, out of the people who've tried it with someone who knows what they are doing.

I havent actually had anal sex, but i dont see why it would work better.

Then you shouldn't mention it and knock it in this context. I'm not saying go have a jolly cornholing, I'm just saying if it's something you know so little about and have no experience with then don't judge. I'm not going to judge about Indonesian politics. Why? No knowledge and no first hand experiences.

Oral:
Person getting oral benefits a lot.
Other gets nothing. Unless they like the taste.
Anal:
Dunno about girl. But most girls prefer normal sex so i assume it isnt as good as vaginal
For the guy, again i dont know from experience, but it sure doesnt seem like it would be better
Vaginal:
Great for both.
Therefore, assuming im not actually a fuckwit, Penis+vagina = best sex. So women and men having sex is better (pleasurewise) than men and men, or women and women. Ruling out toys etc...

Your personal preference. I don't want to get to into it but me and my relationships are different. Our order of things is, well not that order to say. Believe it or not oral is the most satisfying sexually to both of us - whether we are giving it or receiving it. And some days it's receiving it that's 2nd.

Why am I responding to this? I'm not contributing to the conversation at all...

 

[Red Dawn]

Okay. Fine. Get all the direct statements in my post, and put before them, 'In my opinon'. Some things i say as facts, but they are based on my opinion. Now lets go...




Fuck andy, In my opinionyou have terrible interpretation skills. You turned
'Women are A LOT more suited for sex, namely because they have a vagina'
into
'fags are yuck and lesbians are hot'
I wasnt even talking about sexuality, moron. I was saying that men cannot have regular sex. They can have have oral and anal, true, butIn my opinion it is not as effective as regular sex. Now dude, stop calling me thick, okay? Nearly everybody except you can understand what im saying, In my opinioni type coherently. If i typo or fragment by mistake, get over it.

@sixtys first post
Im not saying penis' or vaginas are more suited for sex, im saying that In my opinionpenis' work better for sex when paired with a vagina than they do when paired with another penis. Or asshole. etc.

Not to mention, think of it from your own perspective (discount common sense or your usual thinking), a vagina is more suited for sex. I mean, you've got a penis, it doesn't exactly mesh with another penis. Less you're into sword fights or something.

That is pretty much what i was saying. And i get the feeling youre insulting me. Why..?

Jesus guys, what im saying is that In my opinionwhen you put a penis in a vagina generally you will orgasm faster and harder than in any other body orifices. A vagina is made for sex,(This is true) and so it should do so. That is what i am saying. You may think that anal or oral sex is much better, but In my opinionyoud be with the minority. I havent actually had anal sex, but i dont see why it would work better. Im not saying anything about being gay or lesbian, or reproduction.

oh and I forgot to mention here too, most people in this scenario wouldn't think beyond the selfish thought of 'which is suited better to ME to be using'

K, ruling out kinky stuff + handjobs, there are 3 basic types of sex. Anal, oral, and vaginal (Is that even a word?).
Oral:
In my opinionPerson getting oral benefits a lot.
In my opinionOther gets nothing. Unless they like the taste.
Anal:
Dunno about girl. But most girls prefer normal sex so i assume it isnt as good as vaginal
For the guy, again i dont know from experience, but In my opinionit sure doesnt seem like it would be better
Vaginal:
In my opinionGreat for both.
Therefore, assuming im not actually a fuckwit, In my opinionPenis+vagina = best sex. So In my opinionwomen and men having sex is better (pleasurewise) than men and men, or women and women. Ruling out toys etc...

God In my opinionthat was a long post about such a simple thing.

There. Happy? Arguments finished. Lets just get over it.

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

In my opinion you could have just as easily stated:
"Fine, whatever. These are just my opinions then. That's how I feel deal with it or don't." and I wouldn't have cared to have responded.

Then again In my opinion that little post was nothing more than a childish cop out. Either debate or don't. Going back and changing what you said is fine, but being a little childish about it sets my annoyance levels up a tad bit.

Don't put something in as a fact if it's an opinion. It's conversation 101. I'm not even going to bother reading this to see which things you left as a "fact" as everything I've responded to is still the same. Only with In my opinion pasted every few lines.

My statements still stand. I could post them again but In my opinion it's a waste. Just scroll up if you feel like debating opinions otherwise don't.

In my opinion these two posts are completely worthless.

 

[Red Dawn]

yes, it is the same, just with 'in my opinion' written lots. The point is that you are disagreeing with what im saying where im trying to show what i think rather than tell you whats right.
Im saying all this stuff, you disagree with it. I was writing 'in my opinion' because you think im stating this stuff as fact, when really im saying how i feel about it. And stuff. Just ignore me, im fucking tired and make less sense than normal.

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

First you say someone would be in the minority for thinking something. Fact of not I can disagree with it. And if I wanted to I can back it up. It just wouldn't look good and has nothing to do with anything.
Type away your opinion but expect me to come here and post mine, or even the majority. This isn't me saying "Oh your wrong because it's your opinion not fact!" this is me saying "Really? Well, here's some data for you. Either look at it and respond and we can continue in a normal discussion, or don't." It's what I've done. Took your opinion and hit it with mine, you can hit mine with yours, but this circling is going nowhere but adding pointlessness to an already semi pointless sub debate.

And an opinion on something that isn't experienced is like a drop of water in a cup I'm throwing away. Completely useless and pointless. Honestly.

You say "you" instead of "me". Put "In my opinion" in front of it, it's still the exact same message. In my opinion you are going to feel this. I can say the opposite. If I hit up on that, expect it or don't type it like that. I do it all the time, but I expect people to come at it like so, or I take a step back and reword my next statement in answer to that, I don't just type everything again and act justified.

This whole sequence of posts is utterly useless. There's no debate here. We're going in circles.
You stated your opinion. Fine. I stated mine. Fine.
Now we can respond to each others opinions like a normal debate or we can keep choking on spam about what we're posting instead of debating what the other is.

If this keeps up I'm going to need bread crumbs to find my way home.

 

[Marcus]

Man, I'm beginning to think this whole "acceptance" and "letting people live the way they want to live" bullshit is becoming a tripe cliche and the supporters of people like this are just as ignorant and wrong as the people who choose to do this.

Some people have strong religious and/or moral beliefs. I for one consider myself a naturalist and anything that alters the human body artificially is completely disgusting to me. Our technology has grown so vast that we can practically do anything thus letting people live out sick fantasies such as artificially modifying their sex like this.

There's nothing wrong with people being upset because this is just downright retarded. It may not affect his/her decision making process, but it effects his/her's image and image is important in the lesson you try to pass on. If I was a devil worshipper and terrorist sympathiser with nazi tattoos all over my body but I was a genually nice guy who taught kids for 30 years and won thousands of awards... wouldn't you still be cautious? The very act of me having satanic pentagrams all over my body would give somebody the idea that "oh man, worshipping a celestial being that values material possessions and immediate personal regardless of other people's feelings is definitely the way to go!" If I was a kid at this school I'd be constantly thinking "oh man, I'm tired of being a man! I want to follow this dude yeah!!!"

This country is swirling around the shit bowl and it's all because we as a society don't know when enough is enough. We encourage children to have sex as long as they wear a condom which we mask as being SAFE. We tell people to have sex with multiple partners, spread diseases, and experiment and call it ALTERNATIVE LIVING. We teach people to be amoral, disrespect the ones that raised them, and be selfish and call this INDEPENDENCE.

So yeah, I wouldn't send my kid to this school. I wouldn't want to teach at this school. Call me "simple" or "ignorant" but if being "ignorant" means tolerating people who have no respect for themselves or morals then yeah I'm pretty ignorant. As far as I'm concerned, this is just one step closer to insanity.

EDIT: I also want to add how pissed off I am that the media draws so much attention to this. I can almost guarantee you that nobody would know this dude was going through a sex change operation until someone opened their mouth and then the PAPARAZZI zoomed in for the kill. And it's even worst that they exploit this as well. Why is it that every sports player or celebrity has to publicly "come out of the closet?" Where the fuck is my recognition?

HAY GUYZ! I'M HETEROSEXUAL, PAY TAXES, and CONTRIBUTE TO SOCIETY!!

uh... where the fuck is my medal? What, no cameras? Shouldn't this be on the front page of the paper!?!?

COOOME ON GUYZ, I'M STRAIGHT!! WTF IS THE MATTER WITH YOU!

did i mention i'm black?

*instant attention*

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

I just love how someone who isn't trying to harm someone was just put in an analogy with a nazi, who by modern definitions and use of the word, would be in the business of hurting everyone who isn't them.

I'll agree we're getting to PC, in my own words. We don't want to offend people. We don't want to step on their delicate little toes. That whole ending part of that paragraph, we teach kids to disrespect, is true.

But... gee...
I could be happy and not harm anyone...
Or I could be miserable and not harm anyone...
I'd rather walk around with a smile on my face.

And since we did just bring up image, isn't image a little less important than actual being? If image actually matters, let me know. I'll get a hair cut and polish my nails. Maybe people'll start thinking more of me then as a person.

Yes - admitingly I "missed" a point there. Either that or I just simply didn't feel like commenting on it yet. You're choice.

 

[Marcus]

Okay, let's flip things around because we've seem to reach the point where being human just got completely thrown out of the window!

I just love how someone who isn't trying to harm someone was just put in an analogy with a nazi, who by modern definitions and use of the word, would be in the business of hurting everyone who isn't them.

My reference wasn't about hurting people, it was on ignoring the fact that people were getting hurt. Most of Nazi germany wasn't even aware of the death camps but they were aware of the violence and hate and it was completely ignored. In our situation, we're aware that people are morally repressed, sick, and ill yet we refer to it as "lol alternative." People with different life styles get more respect now than anyone else and they can bring up cases simply on the fact that they're being repressed.

Good example: I'm black. I got a part time job for 4 months and saying "lolz i'm joining the military" as a reference and some dude challenged me by saying I only got the job because I was black. I can sue someone for harassment by stating it was a hate crime. Same thing here: a father can claim a tax break by having a billion children and then leaving them. It's alright for people to move in this country across the border, never pay a single tax, and yet be defended because every person has a right to a job or whatever crap illegal sympathizers come up with.

We, as Americans, are lowering our standards and while I don't mind having freedom of choice and crap, it's going a little too far when we can whore ourselves on tv and get applauded for it. Just look at Jackass or what I like to call "White People Being Stupid And Getting Paid For It." Or just look at BET or what I like to call "Black People Being Ignorant And Getting Paid For It." If being entertained or entertaining our own fantasies results in physically altering our own state of being... fuck that.

I'll agree we're getting to PC, in my own words. We don't want to offend people. We don't want to step on their delicate little toes. That whole ending part of that paragraph, we teach kids to disrespect, is true.

Let's flip this around too: We don't want to step on this guy/gals toes. If we say "no, you can't have a sex change" or "yeah, we're not allowing you to teach anymore" what happens? SUPREME COURT CASE HELLO! This is a lose/lose situation; you either piss off the population or you piss off this dude who has his basic "freedoms." But when you give one guy rights, you give them all rights. In 10 years, there'll be no line. Everyone can artificially alter their appearance or gender at will. Us as a society will break down and nothing will be humane or natural anymore. Pretty big generality, I know, but just look at how much has changed in 30 years.

But... gee...
I could be happy and not harm anyone...
Or I could be miserable and not harm anyone...
I'd rather walk around with a smile on my face.

You know what makes me happy?


Sex with children.

I have fantasies about little kids. Probably makes me a pedophile doesn't it? If I ever had sex with a child, I wouldn't oppress them or hurt them. It would be kind and gentle. I'd love them and I would let them know what love is.

Have I ever had sex with anyone under 18? No. If I did, I'm sure I'd fuck them up mentally no matter my intention. If I was a 12 year old kid and I knew my principle was once a man but now a woman, I'd probably question my own sexuality... then my own perception of reality would be completely warped thus leading me down the path of "ALTERNATIVE LIFESTYLE." I'd probably end up in hot topic wearing those ridiculous black KINDA-SHORTS where they're like pants but really shorts and they chains and shit on them.

uh... what was my point? Oh yeah, fuck hot topic!

And since we did just bring up image, isn't image a little less important than actual being? If image actually matters, let me know. I'll get a hair cut and polish my nails. Maybe people'll start thinking more of me then as a person.

Hygiene and image are 2 different things. It's 100% natural MENTAL REACTION to judge objects based on image no matter how "wrong" that makes us as humans. I'm pretty sure when neanderthals discovered fire and realized "FIRE HOT!" they didn't stick their hand in it again. If you saw a dinosaur walking down the street eating small dogs and shit you wouldn't walk up to it and ask "hello, baby! how sharp are dem' teeth hyuck hyuck!"

Sorry for being realistic. I guess America has become such a distorted FANTASY LAND that people are becoming less and less grounded in reality.

and then the internets were born and reality was shattered! Wanna buy a bonzai kitten? It's a cat raised in a square bottle! Or how would you like some human meat?

 

[Minkoff]

I'm totally with Marcus on the media thing. I think I said it before. It never even should have been covered in the first place.

Your personal preference. I don't want to get to into it but me and my relationships are different. Our order of things is, well not that order to say. Believe it or not oral is the most satisfying sexually to both of us - whether we are giving it or receiving it. And some days it's receiving it that's 2nd.

Hell yeah. I love giving oral. The noises she makes are so hot and when I'm not focused on what's stimulating me I can focus on pleasing her- and that's what really gets me going.

 

[Lene]

People who complain about things being "too" PC don't realize how stupid they sound. "OMG Why should I have to think before I speak so I don't sound like a stupid asshole! Unfair!" "I want to say all the shit I want to say, but I never EVER want to get called on it!"

Hah!

Red Dawn- I'm not going to dissect your posts. It's already been done. All I want to say is, fortunately you're not the authority on "effective sex" or "effective pleasure" or any of that. I'm not sure what leg you have to stand on here.

Marcus and everyone who agrees with him:

HAY GUYZ! I'M HETEROSEXUAL, PAY TAXES, and CONTRIBUTE TO SOCIETY!!

Flip the switch:

HAY GUYZ! I'M TRANSSEXUAL, PAY TAXES, and CONTRIBUTE TO SOCIETY YET I'M A MARGINALIZED ENTITY IN SAID SOCIETY! LOL YAY!

You don't see the difference?

You know what, I really don't need to type out why certain things get pointed out more, so I will take it from someone who's said it better than I can it at the moment. (Jacob a recapper from TWOP). Context a bit different, but the general message is pretty universal.

Now, far be it from me to express outrage [at gay discrimination]. Deleted unanswered, of course. But ... fuckin' seriously?

...

It's the white, straight, rich man's prerogative to say that sex, gender, race and power don't have a place in the conversation. I get that. I get that when you're on top, those things are only optional, because you come up aces no matter the distinction: you already won, it's not worth talking about. The issue of your heterosexuality, race, money or power doesn't come up, because you're dealing with a jury of your peers.

If you're not straight, white, male and rich, however, you are those things every second of every day. You are gay, black, a woman, poor, voiceless every second of the day, from their perspective. It's not a dialectical argument, it's one which stands on steady and hateful ground. Whether you play by those rules is another question, but you are aware of these power dynamics, because you have no other option.

Everybody reads by their own experience ... but if you deviate from the norm in any way, you exist in both places at once: you have to be yourself, and also hypothesize how the real people are going to see you. It's your job to take that into consideration.

I don't think I've ever been accused of some kind of gay bias before. The umpteen million times I've had to write about this situation, regarding this show alone, I've never had to face that accusation. If you know me, you know it's hardly fair. I think playing into the ACT UP victim of prejudice culture just gives it more power, by reinforcing the idea that you're being victimized. I certainly don't feel like a victim, or an activist: I feel like a person who, because of who and what I am, is forced to confront facts and truths that usually are ignored.

To reduce what I wrote -- and what I will be writing in the future, somehow -- to a simple whine is to demonstrate that you have been simplifying what you're reading all along. It's not like I haven't talked about this stuff before. You ignored what you didn't like or understand then, and you're doing it with the show now. I can't fix that. I can't fix you.

The awesome part is that I don't have to. I'm sorry that the world is painful and confusing for you, but I am overjoyed on your behalf that you'll never have to worry about it."

I never understood why people who are in the norm position feel the desire to be a SUPER SPESHUL SNOWFLAKE when they already have it good in the first place. I'm pretty sure Ms. Suraci would love to be able to change her body and not have anyone blink an eye.

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

Marcus I had a huge thing typed out to your response, but literally it blinded me. I am blind now. I can't see. Happy?
Your throwing everything under a few blanket arguments , the sun was blocked out, and now I can't see my hand in front of my face. Nazis are fine so long ago because most of them didn't know, they do now argument broke they want to hurt. Pedophiles do hurt, because of the children. They aren't in the right mind to decide if they want this or not, and most of the time DON'T. Both are forcing something, I could see that but now I'm too blind, too blind to see and tripping all over your words. Sex change doesn't effect anyone but one person, and you didn't even talk about that person but for a few handful of sentences. I could've pointed them out, but fuck I'm blinded.

Seriously, you say people are taking these liberties too far and yet here I am thinking your going too far with your analogies. You break down to one thing and when I challenged it you brought up how Nazis didn't know how long ago - when your analogy was obviously set to todays measure. It doesn't work that way.

And honestly, tell me why?
Tell me why this is bad? Society isn't crumbling people, they said that when blacks got to vote. They said that when women got to vote. They said that when they lowered the voting age to 18. My god what's next?
OH NO!!! HE'S WEARING RED CONVERSE!!! SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!! THE SKY IS FALLING!!
Meh...

Alternative lifestyles getting too much?
Shit, why? Because theirs a gay pride parade? Forget that you can't have a gay pride in almost any other parade - it's segregated. IT IS. You can't have your little march in any other parade. Any. Well... there's like 2 - and one of them is New Years and the other Halloween and it's not likely that's destroyed now because these "alternative" lifestyles got a hold of it, but that's it.
Christmas? St Patricks? Thanksgiving? Okay, fine throw X-mas and pattyday out. They are religious. Wait? Can't do that, separation of church and state. The state runs the parades, that's okay it's against the moral majority so that makes it right.
Then again so was hate against everyone who wasn't white blonde and blue eyed at one time. Hate against the Irish, Italian, Jews, Blacks, EVERYONE was okay at one time because society would have fallen if they had the simple ability to do with as they pleased. It was okay to hate them based on morale majority.

Fuck morale majority, and fuck "alternative lifestyles".
Fuck the morale majority it has no right to exist - ever.
And fuck "alternative lifestyles" - not the people grouped under that term but the term itself. It's insulting. What makes their life so much different than mine, we go shopping, we go to the bathroom, we have sex differently? Guess that makes me "alternative lifestyle" because I'm into kinkier stuff, but fine. Take my rights away then too based on who and how we like to get our kicks off.

Then let's all live in grayland where everyones neutral with no originality or any defining characteristics where we all think the same and all act the same and we can even break out into homogenized songs about how none of us are different. Let's take our little happy pills and describe to the natural order of nothing different, nothing wanted.



@Lene,
PC is bull. I can't use certain phrases or say things in a certain light for fear of offending people which is shit. Everyone has the natural right to be offended, no one has the right not to be. If it's said it's fair game. People are so upset, you can't call illegal immigrants illegals anymore they are "undocumented". Well my old drug dealer isn't a drug dealer, he's an "undocumented pharmacist". This is PC. This is political crap.

 

[Venetia]

SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!

Heh, heh.
(I think that's the problem ... We're overthinking the children!)

I started reading crap about nazis and likening people with gender issues to pedophiles and I realized how pointless it is for anyone to slap some broadmindedness into such narrowminded people. (Seriously, Firefox? You tell me "broadmindedness" is a word and highlight "narrowminded" as a misspell? Sheesh)

The "slippery slope" argument has no place in judiciary council. Were that the case none of us would be able to do anything. Everything has a "slippery slope" if you put the right spin on it.

 

[Marcus]

Sex change doesn't effect anyone but one person, and you didn't even talk about that person but for a few handful of sentences.

Or maybe it affects everyone who views the image of the person we're talking about? Lemme spin your own words against you:

Shemales do hurt, because of the children. They aren't in the right mind to decide if they want this or not, and most of the time DON'T.

Granted, this Ulster County whatever is designed for 11th to 12th graders so we're assuming that these kids are 16-18 so what about their feelings? We as humans are naturally xenophobic or cautious of outsiders. Don't tell you never felt uncomfortable when surrounded by a group of black people or rough looking street toughs. Don't ever tell you don't feel out of place when in an area that has people that are different than you. It's 100% natural. If you introduce an outside source into a society, whether human or animal, you suddenly have a problem which brings me to my only point:

Morals. America has evolved a lot in the past 200 years what with civil rights and woman's suffrage but all of things were granting humans their basic rights. I honestly don't care that this dude wants to be a woman. More power to him. My argument isn't the fact that he's going through an operation, it's that he's a major figurehead in a public school system. I'm a protestant, but I agree with the seperation of church and state. Children should be taught with a neutral standing. There should not be any outside influences that taint a child's learning. They should be taught how to be good, upstanding citizens, they should be taught basic curriculum such as math and science, and then once they turn 18 and make it out into the big world, that's when they truly start discovering themselves.

Children are stupid. Plain and simple. Anyone under 18 doesn't have the basic knowledge or experience to fully understand LIFE. Granted, there are always exceptions, but most American kids do 2 things: go to school and work. Everything else after school whether it's college or the military, that's when you experiment. That's when you do whatever the fuck you want. Teaching kids about homosexuality in grade school is wrong. Teaching kids about intelligent design or whatever is wrong. Teaching kids that having sex with multiple partners as long as you use a condom is wrong. You don't need that bullshit to make it big. All of that can be discovered later on. I pay taxes for an education, not for someone to to tear off my kid's skull and shit their own opinions down their head.

Tell me why this is bad? Society isn't crumbling people, they said that when blacks got to vote.

Because we sensationalize garbage. What happened to chilvary and morals? You try to hold a door open for someone and they get offended. Try to lend someone money and they think you're giving a handout. If I paraded down the street naked I'd want someone to stop me because no one should see that. If a bunch of other naked people joined me and we all frollicked around touching each other's loins and tickling ourselves with ostrich feathers because we're a couple of "cool dudes" expressing our "freedoms" what would that say about us? What would that say about us as a society? That we tolerate people acting like fools? Way to go!

Christmas? St Patricks? Thanksgiving? Okay, fine throw X-mas and pattyday out. They are religious. Wait? Can't do that, separation of church and state. The state runs the parades, that's okay it's against the moral majority so that makes it right.

I have no idea what point you were trying to make here but holidays don't even mean shit anymore. Ask any kid on the street what CHRISTmas is about and I guarantee he'll tell you "uh... presents?" Ask anyone what the religious significance of Easter is and you'd probably here "lol easter bunny rose from the grave to bring about the second coming of colorful eggs!" St. Patricks Day isn't about remembering the saint who drove all the snakes out of Ireland, it's about drinking and acting rowdy and lewd in public. Halloween is no longer the pagan celebration it used to be, it's about eating candy. We've bastardize everything until it no longer has any meaning. If this continues, if people continuously modify themselves artificially and bring all of their crazy shit outside of their homes then what happens to society? It becomes a grab bag of debauchery.

Fuck morale majority, and fuck "alternative lifestyles".
Fuck the morale majority it has no right to exist - ever.

Yeah, yeah and fuck religion and fuck the homeless. Fuck the poor and needy. Fuck the guys with diseases. I'd rather spend money giving a guy ovaries than researching the cure to cancer.

Then let's all live in grayland where everyones neutral with no originality or any defining characteristics where we all think the same and all act the same and we can even break out into homogenized songs about how none of us are different. Let's take our little happy pills and describe to the natural order of nothing different, nothing wanted.

Hey, if Greyland means people are mentally sane then I'm 100% for it. I don't need to confess to the world that I'm gay or that I have sex with animals. I need to tell everyone that I have sex with little kids. I don't need everyone to know that I cut myself and it's 100% mentally healthy to do it.

P.S. I honestly don't care that this guy is a woman. I'm just arguing because the topic was derailed by how good felatio felt or something. As far as I'm concerned, as long as you're capable of performing a job then you should be allowed to retain it as long as you stand a neutral ground and don't force your opinions on anyone.

Which is my number 1 real hatred of society. I hate how the media sensationalizes every little thing. I'm sure this guy/gal didn't want this kind of attention but it ended up becoming big news anyways. As I stated above, I'm protestant but I hate it when religion is force fed on someone. This is something that people are meant to discover themselves. If they want help, they'll ask for it. People have the right to believe whatever they want to as long as it causes no harm to anyone else but to glorify it when someone else probably disagrees is just plain wrong.

Words to live by, no opinion is the correct opinion. Publicly stating your opinion is correct is evil in my eyes. The law should defend the public, not give them the right to their own personal propaganda.

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

I could go threw the entire post. I could. But I'm afraid I don't have the energy to take my brain, bash it into a wall, and watch what drips out and attempt to put it together with duct tape. I have no idea what the fuck your talking about, at any point. It's like talking about cows in Idaho when one guy keeps making references to Irish drinking games. What the hell?

I could debate, but first I'd have to know what the hell your point is.
Instead I'm grabbing in the dark here, so show me some light and just put it in one shot without the sudden jumps from pointless-nothing-to-do-with-anything rants to pointless-nothing-to-do-with-anything rants to left field.

The only thing I'm touching up on:

Yeah, yeah and fuck religion and fuck the homeless. Fuck the poor and needy. Fuck the guys with diseases. I'd rather spend money giving a guy ovaries than researching the cure to cancer.

Good then don't, because you don't have to. It's his money. This is the only part of it all that was on topic to the point that I could actually respond to, everything else was so cluttered in with god knows what I'm sitting here asking the wall where I am.

Sex changes are bad because if I hold the door for someone they'll be offended! Down with sex changes!
Seriously there's a track, and the trains just running threw the corn instead?

 

[Marcus]

You know the point was pretty much in your face.

Education should be taken from a neutral standpoint.

How you missed that when I harped on it atleast 3 times is completely beyond me.

i guess you're too busy advocating unnatural behaviour and the deconstruction of one's humanity to really care. if you're so insecure with your self that you have to artificially alter your body to achieve any sort of happiness, then i feel sorry for you. sometimes i wish i were bird and could fly among the skies but i'd never artificially graft wings to my back just to soar around.

or perhaps you just admit that my argument is 100% correct and you have nothing more to say about it but due to TOPIC CREATION LAW #7* you don't want to admit to it LOLZ

*topic creation law #7: creating a useless argument topic with clearly one opinion in mind and your only goal is to either rally with those that agree with you, or debunk everyone else who has a different opinion. Both sides have absolutely no intention of agreeing or changing positions regardless of how sound the arguments are from either side.

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

Heh topic rules.
Yeah that's why I've apologized and taken back my comments in over 4 threads in the symposium right? If not more, and turned around and admitted being wrong. Even on threads I've started. You can sit here on your soap box and be as opaque as you want, but don't say I'm just backing out because I'm to proud to admit I'm wrong or that I'm purposely trying to spear head a belief, because check my past posts I'm not. You'll find I've admitted to being wrong for dozens of things. Oh, should I have put that in bold so I can be cool too?

I didn't miss that education thing you stated, I didn't touch on it because I agree on it.
So the last 3 posts have all been about educating in an unbiased way?
The hot topic, the chivalry and morals, the rough looking street thugs, and everything else was all about...
No wonder I didn't see your point! You never actually went on about it in detail until I made two posts about how you lost me in a maze of crap...


Hmm... you said it, and I didn't argue it, and you kept going on about everything else and didn't bring it up again - strange how that's what you've been talking about this entire time.

Let's give our children an UNBIASED aka NEUTRAL approach and allow them to make up their own minds.
How do you do that? You create diversity. There is no neutral. It's like saying theres a right and a wrong when it comes to religion, politics, or even favorite toping on pizza. Oh wait, part of that diversity is alternative things we aren't comfortable with. Never mind, let's make em biased by showing them only one thing, so they can grow up and feel the same.

...
Oh wait, you did go on about education... about teaching kids about gay sex and condom wearing in grade school which has abso-fucking-lutely nothing to do with this topic in any way whatsoever. Hey, mr. apple, I'd like you to meet mr. orange. I'm sure you'll get along nicely.

Even the analogies made no sense.
Here's a nazi, but don't judge him as I stated - no judge him as he should be so many years ago before we and he knew anything... here's grade school stuff detailing my opinion on what's happening in a high school. i'm just going to switch your words around and pretend that justifies a point.

minorities do hurt, because of the white children. They aren't in the right mind to decide if they want this or not, and most of the time DON'T.

Tuesdays do hurt, because of the white children. They aren't in the right mind to decide if they want this or not, and most of the time DON'T.

priests do hurt, because of the white children. They aren't in the right mind to decide if they want this or not, and most of the time DON'T.

Does it still stand up? Absolutely not and if it did someone needs a kick in the teeth. It's a dumb argument you keep backing into.

 

[Marcus]

Oh, should I have put that in bold so I can be cool too?

whoah calm down dude, you take this too personally. I bold random words AND CAPITALIZE EVERYTHING because that's my style. maybe i don't like people who don't do it

Oh wait, you did go on about education... about teaching kids about gay sex and condom wearing in grade school which has abso-fucking-lutely nothing to do with this topic in any way whatsoever. Hey, mr. apple, I'd like you to meet mr. orange. I'm sure you'll get along nicely.

Uh, no, it applies to this conversation in every which way. Artificially changing your sex has absolutely nothing to do with educating someone. It's on the same level as introducing homosexuality into public schools as an "alternate choice" and having sex multiple times as long as you use a condom "safe sex." You seem to be completely missing my point so I'll bold it ONCE AGAIN for you.

Education needs to come from a neutral standpoint. Gay love, sodomy, sex, religion, all of that happens at home, not my schools. I pay tax money to have teachers teach ABCs and 123s, not their own opinion. This is a technical school; keep the subject on technical training not how the principle no longer wanted to be a man. I'm not saying he shouldn't teach or people shouldn't go to that school, I'm saying that people like this in general have no right to tell students what to believe regardless if they are doing it or not.

Since there's not much info on this (I've done searches and barely came up with anything), I realize this is just a case of the media glorifying crap that isn't necessary but the fact remains that I don't want outside opinions influencing someone's education. Teach the facts, not the opinions.

How do you do that? You create diversity. There is no neutral.

wait what? hold up you're contradicting yourself.

It's like saying theres a right and a wrong when it comes to religion, politics, or even favorite toping on pizza.

okay... neutrality isn't telling someone what to believe.

Oh wait, part of that diversity is alternative things we aren't comfortable with. Never mind, let's make em biased by showing them only one thing, so they can grow up and feel the same.

uh, no, you're making them biased by teaching them only thing (I.E. gay sex is better than heterosexual sex, changing your sex is better than being natural, eating pepperonni is better than sausage).

I'll say it once again: teachers have no right to express their opinions in a teaching environment. Save that for after school clubs or what have you. I don't want my child to become biased, thus I teach them the basics to make it into society. Everything else they need to learn on their own.

When you force something on someone, whether it be religion, politics, or how they view a subject you'll only create problems. Those are things that people are supposed to discover themselves. It's not about being grey or normal or conforming to society, it's about self discovery which is fundamentally more important to the growth of society than anything else. The renaissance wasn't an influential movement because people copied art, literature, and ways of thinking from other cultures. It was spawned from creativity and a break away from the church that once held a tight leash over the control of ideas and thinking.

All I'm saying here is that Mr./Mrs. Suraci or whatever should continue running the school as long as he doesn't say "hay kids, if you want to be a woman go ahead and do it. i'm happy!" at every chance he gets. If my child wants to have a sex change operation, he'll discover that need on his own. I don't pay taxes to have someone advertise it on a daily basis.

And that's all I have to say about this subject. Someone else can post about felatio or whatever the hell this topic was about 6 pages ago.

 

[craybest]

I realy think homosexuality SHOULD be taught in school, because it exists, you can tech about it and STILL be neutral about sex ed, you're not saying "gay is the way" but showing them not everything is black and white. the multiple sexual partners with condoms thing, while I agree tha'ts maybe not the best way to do it (because there's not 100% safe sex) seems to be working way better than the previous sex ed where they were taught only about abstinence, and then kids would go and have unprotected sex because no one taught them about condoms.
face it people, including teenagers, ARE going to have sex, they always have done it, there's not society crumbling there, it's a very natural urge. so if they're going to have uit, then at least try to teach them about it.
and maybe this teacher will continue teaching them abc's and 123's but we all know that relationships between teachers and students are a LOT more than only teaching.

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

@craybest: amen! I don't have to touch up on the relationship of student/teacher now. That'll save me a breath or twelve.

whoah calm down dude, you take this too personally. I bold random words AND CAPITALIZE EVERYTHING because that's my style. maybe i don't like people who don't do it

I am calm, I've just been seeing the bold text everywhere lately like it's the newest trend to hit the mall. Wasn't meant as an insult.
Take it that way if ya want, though, I'm not gonna stop ya. But for the record I haven't been anything more than slightly annoyed while at this thread - and it hasn't even been with you Marcus.

Education needs to come from a neutral standpoint. Gay love, sodomy, sex, religion, all of that happens at home, not my schools. I pay tax money to have teachers teach ABCs and 123s, not their own opinion. This is a technical school; keep the subject on technical training not how the principle no longer wanted to be a man. I'm not saying he shouldn't teach or people shouldn't go to that school, I'm saying that people like this in general have no right to tell students what to believe regardless if they are doing it or not.

Many of the things you mentioned are part of the curriculum. They teach safe sex to avoid STDs cause kids are going to do it anyway - but I've never seen any teacher, principal, any body outside of a sexual predator in the schools ever give the opinion that you just go out have lots of sex with whomever and wear a condom. Most schools are anti-gay anyway, Jeesus a public school I went to actually sent one girl to counseling over it. She was also put in the slower classes coincidentally in the middle of a semester when this came out - and this is being pro gay?

And why shouldn't people like "this" be able to teach kids? Because their different? Because their not us? Seriously, that's a weak argument that can be used to apply to any group of people - I had one father tell the school the same argument because he didn't want his son to be a "Jew Lover".

Since there's not much info on this (I've done searches and barely came up with anything), I realize this is just a case of the media glorifying crap that isn't necessary but the fact remains that I don't want outside opinions influencing someone's education. Teach the facts, not the opinions.[/QUOTE[I'm still not getting this. YES I know where your coming from, but I don't see any reasoning behind it. I can't see why you are saying this. Where is opinions and facts being skewed, your only reasoning I've seen is over xenophobic tendencies in the human mind. Yes everyone has the right to decide the opinions they want best taught to their children - but no one has the right to decide what the kids are not, in some way, going to end up brushing against.

The guy had a sex change. The girl is just explaining why she did it if asked. They have I believe a pamphlet or something that needs requesting that is mostly an explanation. It's not promoting, or degrading one way of life or another, it's simply explaining so the kids can do their best to get it out of their systems and move on.

wait what? hold up you're contradicting yourself.

How? Because I believe that the only way to create nonpartisan schools as a whole would be to get as many different views in there? You know since no one is raising a fuss about all the - and god I've known a lot - teachers who are so close minded they try to get you counseling if your pregnant in HS. Shit's gonna happen, theres always going to be people who hate for the sake of hating, so why not throw something else there to balance it out? It's the real world, there's always going to be opinions, you can't have otherwise, and your going to have to find the best way to even it out for the children. I call that being neutral, because you are allowing the kids to make up their minds with all the given possibilities, not just the ones you chose. There's a massive lack of judgment and balance in the board of ed anyway, so this ain't going to fuck it up anymore.

Because god knows I've had teachers who were anti-semitic racist, sexist, alcoholics, one ended up caught trying to get the chior boys, damn - I'd rather have a nazi who kept their views to themselves during school, but went around promoting hate off the clock than a teacher who: said the holocaust never happened, used the words "Jewish Media", said that women in the education should only teach home ec class, was a sexual predator on the clock as well as off, showed up to teach drunk, promoted the use of lsd, struck kids with their shoe, shit I can go on and on about the bad teachers I've had. I wish I had one who was so "alternative" they actually won awards, were considered very highly in their field, and didn't do any of the above - you know... to balance things out so we have a system that has both the rights and lefts, the goods and bads, and we're left able to make up our own mind.

uh, no, you're making them biased by teaching them only thing (I.E. gay sex is better than heterosexual sex, changing your sex is better than being natural, eating pepperonni is better than sausage).

We teach kids bias all the time. We teach them that sex is wrong and evil all the time when it's not. It's our attempt to get them to stop because apparently they should. We don't try to encourage waiting for any reason, we don't want them coming to school pregnant is all.

And what fucking school is going around so pro-gay their bashing straights?

I'll say it once again: teachers have no right to express their opinions in a teaching environment. Save that for after school clubs or what have you. I don't want my child to become biased, thus I teach them the basics to make it into society. Everything else they need to learn on their own.

Every great teacher in the world would be out of a job.
And what opinion are we teaching here? To go out and have a sex change? To do what you think is best? Sorry, but "do what you feel is best for you, but don't leap right in, make sure and deliberately put enough thought in it to be 100% sure because it might be a life changing situation" is a great lesson for kids.

Those are things that people are supposed to discover themselves. It's not about being grey or normal or conforming to society, it's about self discovery which is fundamentally more important to the growth of society than anything else.

Perfectly right. But when? College? When our minds are -for the most part- going to have a change in our social ways? Because we're more likely to stay who we were and stunt our growth if we aren't given the chance to grow earlier on in life. We'll just be a bigger smarter version of the HSer instead of some brand new flower budding out of it's little garden being all unique and crap.

The renaissance wasn't an influential movement because people copied art, literature, and ways of thinking from other cultures. It was spawned from creativity and a break away from the church that once held a tight leash over the control of ideas and thinking.

Yeah. And now it's time to do it again. The church is dead (in education, public school that is), but you still have a lot of wrong faced people in power. $300+ to change a light bulb. The inability to fire a sexual predator, and that union bargaining with the parents, because the union has to decide first for 4 years if they even should look into it. This persons actually doing their job - might be one of 12 in the entire education system in this state.

The renaissance was this little time period of growth where everyone started thinking for themselves because the laws that be were to forceful. Someone did something, and they all started doing it. I forgot the sculpture's name, where Mary is holding Jesus in her arms and she's looking down at him crying instead of looking up at the heavens all peaceful - almost got him excommunicated! Suddenly everyone was doing it. They were completely stealing from each other, it was a hot trend.

And what happened after wards? Further growth threw the centuries because no ideas and predispositions were brought in and completely shattered in the face of an increasingly faster growing generation. Each one having the same god damn movements in their sociality as before, the church wasn't always the bad guy. But every single time you had bland and flat and biased hands from one direction holding the power, so yeah let's consolidate a little and spread out reaches out a bit. We might feel more if we have more possible foot holds and might just climb that much further.
Stress and conflict aren't the only ways to get kids to become greatness.

All I'm saying here is that Mr./Mrs. Suraci or whatever should continue running the school as long as he doesn't say "hay kids, if you want to be a woman go ahead and do it. i'm happy!" at every chance he gets. If my child wants to have a sex change operation, he'll discover that need on his own. I don't pay taxes to have someone advertise it on a daily basis.

She's not. No one is.
The idea that people would think someone just makes huge life altering and truly personal decisions and go on to kids doing so for no reason other than the fact that they did, is repugnant.
I've never even see anyone say - in all of my life - that sex changes were for anyone who wanted to try it. Even the anti-sex change documentaries I've seen even gave them at least that much, that they couldn't get one person to say it.
Funny though, how marriage is okay to talk about like that. So is divorce. So is going to college. So is damn near anything. As long as it's not something we ourselves haven't done in the homogenized world.

And that's all I have to say about this subject. Someone else can post about felatio or whatever the hell this topic was about 6 pages ago.

Wow what? Three posts? One by Minkoff. It was slightly more to do with things than just "oh wowz beejays hyuck-hyuck". A seeming amount of challenge was made to the sanity and clear mindedness of someone over sexual preference.

 

[PeteD2S]

Back to the old topic, in a student's point of view, I would hate to have a male teacher that became a female teacher (I don't think the vice-versa is possible, but also aplies), the teacher-student relation would disappear and every class would become awkward, I wouldn't participate much in the class knowing that...woman was a guy before. ':| ...It's just not normal, period.
If he was gay, that would be a whole different thing, he is gay, lots of people are gay, but a shemale? @_@