White Privilege

[rmxp_dev]

All you've done is state that you were fortunate enough to have a good education.

Actually, I said significantly more than that. Maybe you should try reading entire posts, champ.

Do you think the method in which the Local States CHOSE to distribute Educational Funds which creates these disparities was a fluke and un-intentional?

Let me ask you something: The Federal Govn't has laws that set a National Standard for the quality of Drinking Tap Water. Why? Because everyone should have access to clean, healthy water. Right?

Why then is Education funds not distributed evenly and equitably regardless of Income levels?

Do you know why? Because of Residential Segregation. Blacks lived in Black towns. Whites lived in White towns. And THERE, is the source, the origin of the disparity of Education between Blacks and Whites. By qualifiying the amount of Educational funds with the LOCATION and INCOME of the district, White Privilege can unleash Educational Disparities between Whites and Blacks.

The quality of Education, like the quality of drinking water, ought to be equal regardless of Income, or race.

I've stated this before but I will state again. By underfunding Minority education, Whites have guaranteed that Blacks who grow up ill prepared and unqualified cannot get hired in good jobs, and therefore, cannot have Financial Equality with Whites.

 

[Despain]

The quality of Education, like the quality of drinking water, ought to be equal regardless of Income, or race.

It has nothing to do with race at all. But income, that's the ticket. It comes from the taxpayers, and it's not the government's fault. Money can't be magically produced, so naturally taxpayers will pay for their own education. Whether you like it or not, education isn't free. And it shouldn't be, because teachers and countless other school workers need to be paid for the work they do.

Blacks lived in Black towns. Whites lived in White towns.

jesus fucking christ

If a family -black or white- can afford to live in a neighborhood with a good school system, there's nothing preventing them from doing so. There is no law that singles out black people and says that they have no right to move into a wealthy neighborhood.

It's unfortunate that a lot of black families can't move to better areas, but that doesn't mean that it's White Privilege. If anything, it's a case of bad luck for them.

 

[So fist]

If you look back into the report card you'll see the statistic has a footnote.  At the end of the document it tells you where it comes from.  I'll save you the time.

This is the place:  
http://www.ctbaonline.org/

I've searched around for the damning statistic but it seems they don't have it up anymore.  I wonder why.  A gap that size could exist but not at an aggregate level.  They likely compared some tiny rich community to some tiny impoverished black community.  Hardly representative or helpful.  You obviously lack the context for what these numbers even mean so let me help in these regards.  First per pupil spending is easily skewed by several factors.  Small communities will always have numbers that do not neccesarily reflect affluence.  Communities are required to provide all three phases of public education: elementary, middle, and secondary.  That means you need at least three schools, even if your student population is around 100 kids.  Each of those schools needs a principal, the district will need a superintendant, as well as the minimum of other administrative positions and special services.  These fixed expenditures are now spread out over less students thus the expenditure is higher despite the miniscule budget.  So PPS does not tell the whole tale.  Also if you look at my state's school expenditure report you'll notice a whole bunch of these communities with the lowest PPS are rural and suburban white communities.  Some of which aren't even poor.

http://finance1.doe.mass.edu/schfin/sta ... tion05.xls

If you order the spreadheet by the PPS in descending order you'll notice these communities among the lowest.

Berkley (very white)
Lakeville (very white)
Bridgewater/Raynham (Largely white)
East Bridgewater (Very White)
Dracut (very white)
Medfield (very white)
Pembroke (very white)
Halifax (very white)
Kingston (very white)
Norton (very white)
Sandwich (very white)

I'm sure there are more but I don't know much about the other communities.

You'll also notice that the major urban centers: Brockton, New Bedford, Boston, Springfield, Lynn, Lawrence, and Worcester.  All with large minority population are at or above the state average despite having high numbers of kids to split the fixed costs.  The average in our state is 10,000 per pupil sorry for the junk number earlier.  I was basing that off my hometown which I assumed was average.

Were it total racial allegiance why are so many white folks being left behind?  There's more going on here.  And it's more mundane than you'd like.

Also as I said before many states fund education locally via the property tax.  Mostly because parents want more say over how their kids are educated.  When you enter into state and county funding models parents end up with less say.  Like anything else the guy that pays the bill gets to make the rules.

 

[___]

Regarding statistics on income:

You are still completely failing to understand the difference between correlation and causality.  You also fail to understand at a basic level the reason why these statistics are so skewed.  When you intermix a very small wealthy minority into them, it is going to always skew the statistics in favor of whites, because out of the wealthy minority most of them are white and in that wealthy minority incomes are 10-20 times middle and lower class incomes.  Showing that a white person on average is richer than a black person only shows that there are more rich white people, not that every white person is richer or that every white person has some inborn advantage.  You have used a lack of basic understanding about what statistics mean to try to prove a point that they do not prove.  Try this on for size:

Out of the roughly 100 million people in this country who are uninsured, the vast majority of them are white.
Out of the millions of people living below poverty level in this country, the vast majority of them are white.
Out of the hundreds of thousands of homeless people in this country, the vast majority of them are white.

All I've proven here is that there are more white people in the country.  That's all you've accomplished as well.

Let me try this from another angle:

If an Asian person discovers some mathematical formula that unlocks a whole new area of physics, and some asshole says, "He's just good at math because he's Asian" he belittles that person's accomplishments based on a stupid stereotype.  He ignores a decade of education, depreciates thousands of hours of work.  He's telling the world that the person's accomplishment is due to his race.

If a black man becomes the best basketball player in the world, and some asshole says he's only good at sports because he's black, he similarly debases a whole lifetime of playing and loving the game, all the hard work, practice and competition that brought that man to that level of excellence.

If you tell me or any other white guy the reason we got a job, or got a raise or promotion, or got a public office, or got a role in a movie, or got a loan or a car or any other thing you think that whites have some inborn advantage at you similarly belittle us based on a stupid racist stereotype.

Arguments about whether asians are better at math, or blacks are better at sports, or whites have social advantages, is totally fucking irrelevant to this problem.  Maybe that Asian guy struggled with math all through school, maybe he has to work harder than his peers, maybe he discovered that formula through three times as much work and effort as someone else in his field discovered something similar; we don't fucking know that.  He's not good at math because he's asian just because someone found a statistic saying asian students perform better in math.  Maybe that black dude has scoliosis and heel spurs, maybe he has a genetic defect that causes his muscles to develop more slowly than other people, maybe he has an inner ear problem that throws his balance or astigmatism that affects his depth perception and he struggled and overcame those things.  Just because he's black doesn't fucking mean he automatically enjoys better sports performance, even though a large majority of athletes in professional sports in the United States are black.

For you to assert that every white person enjoys some kind of special racial advantage in life is racist, arrogant, and insulting.  Millions of white people in this country struggle every day to make ends meet.  Millions of white kids don't get the education they need to succeed, because of the area they're born in.  Millions of white parents can't afford to put their kids through special programs like music tutoring or sports or after-school advanced classes that give them the advantages they need to maximize their talents and make them successful in life.  Try to tell any of those people they got something special because they're white, they will tell you you can go fuck yourself with a splintery stick.  The fact that you can afford a computer to talk to me about this shows that you're waaay the fuck ahead of where I was when I was a kid.  My family didn't buy a computer until after I moved out.

Do you know why? Because of Residential Segregation. Blacks lived in Black towns. Whites lived in White towns. And THERE, is the source, the origin of the disparity of Education between Blacks and Whites. By qualifiying the amount of Educational funds with the LOCATION and INCOME of the district, White Privilege can unleash Educational Disparities between Whites and Blacks.

That's funny, where was my white advantage?  I lived in California, one of the lowest performing states in the country in education.  In California, I lived in one of the poorest counties, and inside that county I lived in one of the poorest and smallest communities.  I learned out of text books 20 years out of date, my teachers were for the most part useless hacks who spent more time mocking their students than teaching them.  Some of the people that went to my gradeschool were still functionally illiterate in high school.  Oh I'm sure if I was black though whitey would have found a way to give even less money to my school so I'd have been even worse off eh :/

And despite all that I still had it waaaay the fuck better than a lot of friends I've had through the years, white black or otherwise.

 

[Airose]

This argument will never be end.

Only thing that'll end it is a machine that'd switch races for a day. Some major idiots need to be born a certain race to know what is what.

I guarentee the whites would be complaining about the 'minorities'

and the minorities would be complaining about the 'whites'.

Come on.. "Minority"? Who in gods green earth want to be referred to as a minority? Its idiotic to think that white people actually think that everyone would be treated equally in America, ever. I mean look at Obama, he's running for president and everyone is making it racial unprovoked. 'Are we ready for a Black President', 'If he was white he wouldnt be where he is today', 'Obama isnt fit to be president due lack of experience.' (Mind you none of the canidates was president before). Same with Sex.. though Hillary is a bitch, but you have to admit people are focusing on the fact that Obama is black and Hillary is a girl.

If Obama was white, and had the same charisma... it wouldnt be a big deal. Look at Bill Clinton, playing the sax in the street.. if the guy was black it'd be a big deal but he's white .. so let em play. Hell, you should know by now America is biased for a white audience.. but they'll let a few minorities in to look like its for everyone.

I.E. Obama is mixed.. noone ever brings that up because he is half black. -ONE DROP RULE?-

Even I have a hard time telling people I am mixed, because usually I kid you not one of my ex-friends said "you're just trying to be white." Yes, because my complexion is me forcing my pigment to be white, so is my lineage. Dear god, I wish I had a switch that turned idiots into a minority everytime they opened they're mouth.

If you wasnt born in the 'minority' you'd arent expected to see it. It's a huge deal when black people see someone who isnt an idiot, in high power.. thats black. I mean usually  when I turn on the t.v. I see stereotypes of blacks put there.. because they're stereotypes. Just look at Obama's priest.. if that guy isnt the perfect nigger embodiment I dont know who is. Obama was doing AWESOME, then the guy opens his mouth and at that moment I could feel the whole black race smack there head.

If you can look me dead in the eye and say that most positions in high power have more minorities than white people, I'll bitchslap you.

Being male, and white as well as having a silver spoon in your mouth enables you to do anything you want in America.

Black Entertainment Channel? HAAHAHAHAHAH Oh my god, you minus well rename it Watermelon and Chicken Television, black people arent proud of that. We're ashamed of it,
if that should be our crowning achievement, well Nascar and trailor time should be for whites.


Its a matter of place. If I was born white, I'd complain about minorities having it too good.
If you were born a minority.. you'd complain about whites having it too good.

I think its not a question of race this time, I think its a question of you're not trying hard enough.

Here are the requirements for a "Minority" or "BLACK" scholarship.

    *  Been accepted to a masters-level accounting, finance, taxation or other related master-level program for the 2008-2009 academic year
    * Enrolled as a full-time graduate student (9 semester hours or equivalent) at a four-year or upper division institution, unless completing his/her final semester of study
    * Maintained at least a 3.3 GPA (major and cumulative)
    * A student of Black or African American; Hispanic or Latino; Asian; American Indian or Alaska Native; Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander; or of two or more races
    * A U.S. citizen or permanent resident (green card holder)
    * An AICPA Student Affiliate member:

I guarentee if your work is exceptional you'd be given a scholarship anyway

http://app1.unmc.edu/gradstudies/index. ... &CONREF=20

Oh dear god, was that.. a scholarship for everyone? Regardless of race? My head hurts. I guess the world isnt so black and white as you make it seem. Though I wanted to rant about how the world is biased.. its actually not to biased.

If you're doing exceptional regardless of race, life would go awesome for you.

If you got a 4.0 all through school and had high SAT scores, guess what? If you found a scholarship through the THOUSANDS of scholarships out there you'd be accepted. Penn and Teller needs to call you guys on your bullshit, Im out of here the ignorance is taking away from my ability to think coherently.

 

[___]

Most white people don't have a problem with minorities having it too good, or even with rich people, who actually do have it too good.  We don't have a problem with people that say, my race gave me a special obstacle to overcome in my life.  We have a problem when someone tells us we *didn't* have any obstacles to overcome in life, or that someone gave us something special that made everything else we did slightly less valid than if some none-white person did it.  That is fucking racist bullshit.

Anyways, and I'll say it again, the real problem is that the majority of all people struggle harder than a tiny minority of wealthy people.  We don't have access in the United States to things we should because our laws are structured to protect rich people and large business. 

Bill Gates and Oprah both enjoy the same economic structure that allows a person, once he reaches a certain threshold, to make more money in a week than a normal person makes in a year, and nothing can take that away from them, even if they squander money in ridiculous ways and never lift a finger of effort the rest of thier lives.  Their children will be rich beyond our wildest dreams if they drop out of high school.

Meanwhile white guy in a trailer park suffers the same economic, social and educational disadvantages black guy in the inner city suffers.  They will both have to try a thousand times harder to have a tiny portion of what the rich kids living thirty miles away get by inheritance.

We are in the only country in the first world that still doesn't supply the most basic, fundamental needs for a person to be successful:  a guarantee of health care and quality education.  If this was a white conspiracy, or even unintentionally benefiting white people, neither I nor any other white person would have to worry about it.  It's not about race, though, it's about wealth, and being part of an on-average wealthy race doesn't guarantee access to wealth.

 

[moog]

Fun Fact: Black people love BET that is why it is called BET. =D

Edit: It really urks me when biracial people call themselves "mixed". Its a stupid nonspecific generalization that drives me nuts. It doesnt help that you call yourself that. Mixed with what? Fish? Plastic? Polish? Thats just too vague and it seriously is ign'ant, ya heard?

Plus, half your post was running around in circles, it was like, "Yeah heres some info, but lemme elaborate to bring across an irrelevant point" Also, you arent helping by typing like a stereotype =\

Not attacking you personally, just pointing that out, one "mixed" to another.

Sorry if I derailed a tad, just had to throw that out.

Edit2:

Its a matter of place. If I was born white, I'd complain about minorities having it too good.
If you were born a minority.. you'd complain about whites having it too good.

What the fuck are you talking about? If you were WHITE (assuming that you have the so called "perks") why the fuck would you envy a MINORITY? Its not a matter of place, its a matter of choices. Now if you mean living conditions, then yeah, thats if you are being specific. A white kid could have it just as bad as the stereotyped minority in certain cases, and vice versa.

Here are the requirements for a "Minority" or "BLACK" scholarship.

    *  Been accepted to a masters-level accounting, finance, taxation or other related master-level program for the 2008-2009 academic year
    * Enrolled as a full-time graduate student (9 semester hours or equivalent) at a four-year or upper division institution, unless completing his/her final semester of study
    * Maintained at least a 3.3 GPA (major and cumulative)
    * A student of Black or African American; Hispanic or Latino; Asian; American Indian or Alaska Native; Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander; or of two or more races
    * A U.S. citizen or permanent resident (green card holder)
    * An AICPA Student Affiliate member:

I dunno if this is sarcasm, cause if it isnt you are exaggerating. Do you know that African-Americans (and im not saying minority because you labeled it as an aka black thing) can get more financial aid for college than the standard white student? Usually its based off of living conditions and income, but at the college I was at last year they practically gave the damn scholorships away to blacks who needed it, pending they kept like a 2.0. If anything this is the excpetion to the rule. My mother was black, so legally I am as well, and I got shit education but kept my grades up and took the all the AP classes in high school, and my best friend who is black got the same scholorship I did, and he had a shit point average.

My point is that its all subjective, its not really about setting the bar higher for minorites to get scholorships in college, cause that would be like HEH WE DONT WANT BLACKS TO LEARN and that would be stupid.

Unless the point of your post was sarcasm, then I apologize for my rant.

 

[Airose]

Most white people don't have a problem with minorities having it too good, or even with rich people, who actually do have it too good.  We don't have a problem with people that say, my race gave me a special obstacle to overcome in my life.  We have a problem when someone tells us we *didn't* have any obstacles to overcome in life, or that someone gave us something special that made everything else we did slightly less valid than if some none-white person did it.  That is fucking racist bullshit.

Dear god man, its life live with it.

Ignorance doesnt have a color. Did anyone of us provoke you to force your point of view in our face? You'll never hear me say anything as ignorant as your first post.. or stand behind anything racist regardless of color. I have a low tolerance level when it comes to ignorance.

I know for a fact that if you arent dealt a good hand you're going to have a bad game. Yet I never bitch about minority scholarships, or whites having it too god or what not. I just try harder. I have the drive to succeed in life, I dont care how hard I have to try, what I have to study, how long it takes.. I try.. on my own two feet. When someone bitches about minorities having it too good and whites blah blah blah I get flustered. If you HAVE THAT MUCH TIME TO COMPLAIN DO SOMETHING! FUCK!

Right now I could be writing this book Im working on whether than trying to text some common sense into you brats. I never in life accepted any help from anything I succeeded on my own two feet, but if you want to tell me with a straight face.. that my income is because I have black blood.. some kinda affirmative action bullshit.. you HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME! I was born just as poor as you, from Detroit, MI.. gunshots everynight. My mother dropped out of the 6th grade, dad never around.. and there was times where I was left in the house alone, when I was 4 years old. Somehow, I've succeeded.. somehow I make a killing every month, somehow Im a great person with out fuckin scholarships.. I paid my fucking way out of my pocket.

Black Entertainment Television my ass.. fucking disgrace.. have you watched that diarrhea? I dare you to watch more than five minutes of that channel without puking.

Ironically you've enter racist territory yourself by bitching about racist. You are still a kid, and sadly you're not aware.. some people in this world are like that. I want you to think hard and long about it. Are those people successful in life? You ever hear someone that has an actual college education bitch about white people having it 'too good'? If you did, well I dont know what to tell you.. racism, ignorance, and foolishness has no color.. please reconsider your words next time. Also study up on scholarships next time. . if you did research you'd see that there are many scholarships that reward you regardless of color.

By the way NAACP is a disgrace for me.. so is Jesse Jackson, and any idiot that isolates one race for benefits. It's actually embarrassment because it gives people ground to look down to me like a DAMNED child. You want a fucking lolipop? Aww who's a good black person *pats head*. *sighs*

Fun Fact: Black people love BET that is why it is called BET. =D

Edit: It really urks me when biracial people call themselves "mixed". Its a stupid nonspecific generalization that drives me nuts. It doesnt help that you call yourself that. Mixed with what? Fish? Plastic? Polish? Thats just too vague and it seriously is ign'ant, ya heard?

Plus, half your post was running around in circles, it was like, "Yeah heres some info, but lemme elaborate to bring across an irrelevant point" Also, you arent helping by typing like a stereotype =\

Not attacking you personally, just pointing that out, one "mixed" to another.

Sorry if I derailed a tad, just had to throw that out.

Edit2:

Its a matter of place. If I was born white, I'd complain about minorities having it too good.
If you were born a minority.. you'd complain about whites having it too good.

What the fuck are you talking about? If you were WHITE (assuming that you have the so called "perks") why the fuck would you envy a MINORITY? Its not a matter of place, its a matter of choices. Now if you mean living conditions, then yeah, thats if you are being specific. A white kid could have it just as bad as the stereotyped minority in certain cases, and vice versa.

Here are the requirements for a "Minority" or "BLACK" scholarship.

    *  Been accepted to a masters-level accounting, finance, taxation or other related master-level program for the 2008-2009 academic year
    * Enrolled as a full-time graduate student (9 semester hours or equivalent) at a four-year or upper division institution, unless completing his/her final semester of study
    * Maintained at least a 3.3 GPA (major and cumulative)
    * A student of Black or African American; Hispanic or Latino; Asian; American Indian or Alaska Native; Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander; or of two or more races
    * A U.S. citizen or permanent resident (green card holder)
    * An AICPA Student Affiliate member:

I dunno if this is sarcasm, cause if it isnt you are exaggerating. Do you know that African-Americans (and im not saying minority because you labeled it as an aka black thing) can get more financial aid for college than the standard white student? Usually its based off of living conditions and income, but at the college I was at last year they practically gave the damn scholorships away to blacks who needed it, pending they kept like a 2.0. If anything this is the excpetion to the rule. My mother was black, so legally I am as well, and I got shit education but kept my grades up and took the all the AP classes in high school, and my best friend who is black got the same scholorship I did, and he had a shit point average.

My point is that its all subjective, its not really about setting the bar higher for minorites to get scholorships in college, cause that would be like HEH WE DONT WANT BLACKS TO LEARN and that would be stupid.

Unless the point of your post was sarcasm, then I apologize for my rant.

All of my posts were sarcasm.. shit like this gets under my skin. Especially when people that has it bad pulls the race card.

As I said.

I think its not a question of race this time, I think its a question of you're not trying hard enough.

Also, wow.. I have to verify my mixture for you? Saying you're mixed is like saying you're black.. its just a slang.  Just like when someone says there white, they dont say they're Caucasian all the time. Get on their case too if you bitch about my saying I am mixed.

Im done with this crap, I got shit to do.. other than bitch about how the world is out to get me and how other fuckers have it better than I have. THE MAN IS TRYING TO KEEP ME DOWN!

 

[rmxp_dev]

Regarding statistics on income:

Out of the roughly 100 million people in this country who are uninsured, the vast majority of them are white.
Out of the millions of people living below poverty level in this country, the vast majority of them are white.
Out of the hundreds of thousands of homeless people in this country, the vast majority of them are white.

All I've proven here is that there are more white people in the country.  That's all you've accomplished as well.

Hmm..I was going to stop responding anymore because but I just have to correct you ( one last time ).

You've just made a very false statement.

The studies I've shown you show the average Income statistics for each race. How in God's name does average White Income being > average Black income merely show the majority of people in this country are Whites? These are AVERAGES per person, not aggregate sum.

And you have no clue what you're talking about in correlation vs causal. NONE whatsoever. You can't even get the meaning of a simple statistic correct.

 

[Airose]

My points that I want you take seriously.

*Dear god man, its life live with it.

*If you're doing exceptional regardless of race, life would go awesome for you.

If you got a 4.0 all through school and had high SAT scores, guess what? If you found a scholarship through the THOUSANDS of scholarships out there you'd be accepted.

*"Minority"? Who in gods green earth want to be referred to as a minority?

*Its a matter of place. If I was born white, I'd complain about minorities having it too good.
If you were born a minority.. you'd complain about whites having it too good.

*I think its not a question of race this time, I think its a question of you're not trying hard enough.

*This argument will never end.


If I was born white I wouldnt understand why blacks think they have it so hard..
If I was born black I wouldnt understand why whites think blacks have it so good..

Overall, usually the people who bitch about this shit are the people who dont believe in good American old fashioned, hard work.. and actually studying.. learning.. and overall striving no matter what against all odds. They have to don their hats and throw the pity parties.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/ ... Racist.gif[/img]

 

[___]

Hmm..I was going to stop responding anymore because but I just have to correct you ( one last time ).

You've just made a very false statement.

The studies I've shown you show the average Income statistics for each race. How in God's name does average White Income being > average Black income merely show the majority of people in this country are Whites? These are AVERAGES per person, not aggregate sum.

And you have no clue what you're talking about in correlation vs causal. NONE whatsoever. You can't even get the meaning of a simple statistic correct.

This is a really, really simple concept.  When the growth from the bottom end of a spread of numbers to the top of a spread of numbers is greater than linear, and you take a section of that spread based on another piece of data which does not select evenly from that entire spread, the average of the entire spread vs. the average of your subsection of that spread will be drastically different (it will always be different, but the greater the incline above linear the greater the difference).  Because there are more extremely wealthy white people as a percentage of the white population than there are extremely wealthy minority people as a percentage of the minority population, looking at a statistic that isolates and takes an average from these populations will always show that white income is much larger than minority income.  The situation would be reversed
If you cut the extremely wealthy people out of the equation that have wealth exponentially higher than 85% of the population this difference declines dramatically.

Furthermore, showing that white people have a higher average income than black people does not prove your supposed inverse: that being white gives you a higher income than being black.  This is a logical fallacy, specifically Illicit Conversion if you first suppose that the inverse of statement a actually is statement b, which is fallacious in itself.

As for the difference between correlation and causality, it seems apparent you haven't even read a definition of those words.  Let me help you out here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistica ... orrelation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality

If you can't get past that basic error in your thinking you have no further place in this discussion.

Ignorance doesnt have a color. Did anyone of us provoke you to force your point of view in our face? You'll never hear me say anything as ignorant as your first post.. or stand behind anything racist regardless of color. I have a low tolerance level when it comes to ignorance.

You're missing the point of my first statement, which is understandable since it sounds a lot like what you expected and interpreted it to be.  My point though isn't to complain about minority benefits.  You probably missed it but I have said before in this thread I think these institutions are great.  My point though is to complain when minority people take the racist stance against me or any other random white person that our lives have been easy or easier because we're white, that there is some kind of special institution out there that gives us something special purely on account of being white. 

Being white does not imply enjoyment of economic privilege, or peer acceptance, or lack of physical or psychological abuse on the part of authorities.  I'm tired of hearing "it's easier for you to get into college 'cause you're white" or "it's eaiser for you to get a job 'cause you're white" or "you had a better childhood 'cause your'e white."  It's simply not true, and it's a basic racial prejudice.  On these grounds I think we mostly agree.

On your other points I also mostly agree on you, except on this one: no amount of hard work closes the gap between the privileges enjoyed by the wealthy and the life of the middle and lower class.  Simply studying hard and being brilliant will not make you the next Bill Gates.  Saying, "if you can't afford medical care or proper education for your child that's your fault for not working hard enough" is not a fair statement.  Many people who make very little money work very, very hard and did the best they could in life; they simply were not born with certain advantages.  Many people with lots of money and all the things they could ever want did not lift a finger to get them.

We do not live in the utopian meritocracy people like to believe we do.  However the gap in privilege between people of varying income is much greater than the gap between people of similar income and different race, to the point that race as a factor in today's society is nearly irrelevant, except that historical backgrounds of different races tend them toward or against economic advantages.

Moderator's note:  I have cleaned up some of the off-topic, irrelevant, or otherwise non-contributing posts here from this morning.  If you have any questions about this, PM me.

 

[Airose]

This is a really, really simple concept.  When the growth from the bottom end of a spread of numbers to the top of a spread of numbers is greater than linear, and you take a section of that spread based on another piece of data which does not select evenly from that entire spread, the average of the entire spread vs. the average of your subsection of that spread will be drastically different (it will always be different, but the greater the incline above linear the greater the difference).  Because there are more extremely wealthy white people as a percentage of the white population than there are extremely wealthy minority people as a percentage of the minority population, looking at a statistic that isolates and takes an average from these populations will always show that white income is much larger than minority income.  The situation would be reversed
If you cut the extremely wealthy people out of the equation that have wealth exponentially higher than 85% of the population this difference declines dramatically.

Furthermore, showing that white people have a higher average income than black people does not prove your supposed inverse: that being white gives you a higher income than being black.  This is a logical fallacy, specifically Illicit Conversion if you first suppose that the inverse of statement a actually is statement b, which is fallacious in itself.

As for the difference between correlation and causality, it seems apparent you haven't even read a definition of those words.  Let me help you out here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistica ... orrelation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality

If you can't get past that basic error in your thinking you have no further place in this discussion.

Ignorance doesnt have a color. Did anyone of us provoke you to force your point of view in our face? You'll never hear me say anything as ignorant as your first post.. or stand behind anything racist regardless of color. I have a low tolerance level when it comes to ignorance.

You're missing the point of my first statement, which is understandable since it sounds a lot like what you expected and interpreted it to be.  My point though isn't to complain about minority benefits.  You probably missed it but I have said before in this thread I think these institutions are great.  My point though is to complain when minority people take the racist stance against me or any other random white person that our lives have been easy or easier because we're white, that there is some kind of special institution out there that gives us something special purely on account of being white. 

Being white does not imply enjoyment of economic privilege, or peer acceptance, or lack of physical or psychological abuse on the part of authorities.  I'm tired of hearing "it's easier for you to get into college 'cause you're white" or "it's eaiser for you to get a job 'cause you're white" or "you had a better childhood 'cause your'e white."  It's simply not true, and it's a basic racial prejudice.  On these grounds I think we mostly agree.

Kinda like what you're doing now..? I didnt interpret it wrong, you're just changing your story. Its not okay for them to judge you but when you judge them its okay.. Yeah.. you're doing god's work kid.

You know.. how you're taking a racist stance against those who are taking a racist stance against you.. instead of just acknowledging them for ignorant buffoons and moving on with life.. yeah.

Two  wrongs dont make a right, but they make a left... and two lefts definitely takes you back to the past doesnt it. Nothing ever is accomplished if you're dwelling on those left's.

I mean you're totally right, boy oh boy totally.

Also.. Wikipedia isnt always 100%. It -IS- done by average joes you know. I can write a wikipedia right now.. Seriously. If you really want facts, read a book.

 

[___]

Studies have shown the accuracy of Wikipedia articles to be on par with the accuracy of any other reference source, with a much broader base of information.  Many experts contribute to Wikipedia, and the old adage "two heads are better than one" applies.  It's a great piece of free reference, and on the subject at hand, logical fallacies, it is perfectly accurate and acceptable.  Attacking an argument based on its source is a logical fallacy of itself, and in any case I am not providing Wikipedia links as supporting evidence, I am providing them as a definition of terms for a person obviously ignorant of terminology.

Fundamentally this is not the place to debate the accuracy of Wikipedia, and the Wikipedia Fallacy "you must be wrong because you referenced wikipedia" does not belong here.

I have changed my story slightly to the extent that a couple good points have been made.  I'm not complaining about my situation in life, I am using anecdotes that I am familiar with as examples of situations where "white privilege" did not exist in a white person's life. 

Remember my original point, if you read carefully, is not that giving minorities special privileges is bullshit, it's that claiming that every white person gets privileges by default is bullshit.

I'm not in the habit of judging anybody based on their race, the fact that you have that impression seems to me to be coming from a false assumption of persecution.

 

[moog]

Kinda like what you're doing now..? I didnt interpret it wrong, you're just changing your story. Its not okay for them to judge you but when you judge them its okay.. Yeah.. you're doing god's work kid.

You know.. how you're taking a racist stance against those who are taking a racist stance against you.. instead of just acknowledging them for ignorant buffoons and moving on with life.. yeah.

Two  wrongs dont make a right, but they make a left... and two lefts definitely takes you back to the past doesnt it. Nothing ever is accomplished if you're dwelling on those left's.

I mean you're totally right, boy oh boy totally.

Also.. Wikipedia isnt always 100%. It -IS- done by average joes you know. I can write a wikipedia right now.. Seriously. If you really want facts, read a book.

Helpful hint: Dont keep shit posting if you say you are going to leave the topic.

All you do is instigate and derail this topic. Nphyx wasnt chastising or judging the opposite race at all. I dont think you grasp key points very well.

Also, wiki pages CAN be made by anyone, but the important ones with solid evidence usually are truthful. Your point of anyone making a wiki is irrelevant until you show me a solid wiki page that someone made with hardcore facts.

 

[Airose]

Studies have shown the accuracy of Wikipedia articles to be on par with the accuracy of any other reference source, with a much broader base of information.  Many experts contribute to Wikipedia, and the old adage "two heads are better than one" applies.  It's a great piece of free reference, and on the subject at hand, logical fallacies, it is perfectly accurate and acceptable.  Attacking an argument based on its source is a logical fallacy of itself, and in any case I am not providing Wikipedia links as supporting evidence, I am providing them as a definition of terms for a person obviously ignorant of terminology.

Fundamentally this is not the place to debate the accuracy of Wikipedia, and the Wikipedia Fallacy "you must be wrong because you referenced wikipedia" does not belong here.

I have changed my story slightly to the extent that a couple good points have been made.  I'm not complaining about my situation in life, I am using anecdotes that I am familiar with as examples of situations where "white privilege" did not exist in a white person's life. 

Remember my original point, if you read carefully, is not that giving minorities special privileges is bullshit, it's that claiming that every white person gets privileges by default is bullshit.

I'm not in the habit of judging anybody based on their race, the fact that you have that impression seems to me to be coming from a false assumption of persecution.

Stop putting words in my mouth, did I say it was fake? I said it isnt always 100%, bad enough you are trying to start a debate out of an unfounded rant, now you're avoiding my points and putting words in my mouth.

I said 9380983 times everyone isnt doing that, but you are.. and the people who arent thinking that way just sees this post as bullshit. Unfounded.. unbiased... unsubstantiated bullshit. Everytime I call you on it you change your story. In your last post you were doing that EXACTLY judging blah blah on race. Its not an impression its an observation. You have a Vendetta out for the world just because you endured some idiots.. its bullshit. You're living with your head in the clouds, saying that just because someone said some crap you are entitled to be racist in context to prove that you arent racist and they ARE. The hell are you thinking man, do you even read your own words or are you sniffing your ass too much to realize what I am trying to say.


This is not a debate, this is a rant.

debate: a formal contest in which the affirmative and negative sides of a proposition are advocated by opposing speakers.

rant: to speak or declaim extravagantly or violently; talk in a wild or vehement way; rave: The demagogue ranted for hours.

What is there to debate here? Tell me? There are no points here just opinions. There is no true spirit here, only blowing hot air.. there is no judge, no jury.. just wanting people TO FUCKING SAY WHAT YOU FUCKING WANT TO HERE.

HOW THE HELL IS THIS A SYMPOSIUM TOPIC.. Im sorry lost my composure.. topics like this is about as beneficial as donning white cloaks and hoods next to a room with friggin afros and dark skin.

DERKA FRIGGIN DERKA NIGGERS TOOK MY JOBS, MEXICANS SAY THEY HAVE IT SO BAD, IM WHITE AND I DESERVE A BLOW JOB AND A VAGINA IN MY MOUTH. What is the point of this conversation? Noone knows ITS ME BLOWING HOT AIR BECAUSE SOMEHOW SOME BASTARD SAYS THIS TO ME AND ME ONLY BECAUSE IM THE ONLY PERSON IN THE WORLD IT HAPPENS TO! *pants* When someone says something you're so quick to try to ignore their argument you FORGET that you posted a DEBATE topic. So what's the FUCKING USE? I stand by my previous statements. Damn the man, always keeping me down.

Kinda like what you're doing now..? I didnt interpret it wrong, you're just changing your story. Its not okay for them to judge you but when you judge them its okay.. Yeah.. you're doing god's work kid.

You know.. how you're taking a racist stance against those who are taking a racist stance against you.. instead of just acknowledging them for ignorant buffoons and moving on with life.. yeah.

Two  wrongs dont make a right, but they make a left... and two lefts definitely takes you back to the past doesnt it. Nothing ever is accomplished if you're dwelling on those left's.

I mean you're totally right, boy oh boy totally.

Also.. Wikipedia isnt always 100%. It -IS- done by average joes you know. I can write a wikipedia right now.. Seriously. If you really want facts, read a book.

Helpful hint: Dont keep shit posting if you say you are going to leave the topic.

All you do is instigate and derail this topic. Nphyx wasnt chastising or judging the opposite race at all. I dont think you grasp key points very well.

Also, wiki pages CAN be made by anyone, but the important ones with solid evidence usually are truthful. Your point of anyone making a wiki is irrelevant until you show me a solid wiki page that someone made with hardcore facts.

Everytime you post you put your foot in your mouth. Show me where I said that wiki was irrelevant. I implied him to do more research himself. Everytime you post trying to attack me with unfounded facts I have to straighten you out, yet you still put words in my mouth. Why do I instigate, read this fuckin topic and see if people take the debate to heart or they just try to force opinions in the others face. This isnt a debate its a bunch a blowhards ranting.. and that in turn forces me to rant in annoyance. There is no way to state facts here, none at all there is nothing to debate.


The best way to be coherent in these situations is to be abstract.. doesnt make sense? Thats why it makes sense.

 

[___]

The topic of the debate is whether or not white people receive significant privileges based on their race. 

I'm sorry if I haven't been clear enough on that for you.  The topic is not whether immigration is bad; there's a topic for that.  The topic is not whether racism is bad; agreeing on that is pretty much a requisite for discussion in this forum.  The topic is not whether racism exists against minorities; there is a basic agreement in this debate that it does exist.  The topic is not whether minorities should receive special benefits, whether the purpose is to to help make up for historical racial abuse or otherwise; I agree that these benefits are good for society, and there is another topic to debate Affirmative Action and similar subjects here in the Symposium.  This topic is not about whether white people should receive special privileges since other people get them based on their race or heritage.

I will update the original post to include this clarification.

This is an informal warning.  One more off-topic, ad-hominem rant like the one above will result in a formal warning.  Go home, cool off, watch some porn or shoot some people in GTA, whatever you need to do.

 

[Airose]

Okay you cant see past the sarcasm in my post for me to actually be direct to you.

My point

*Stop saying minorities are out to get you, rather than a select few (DONT TAKE THIS TO LITERALLY)

Literal point

*You're being impossible, you're changing your argument and being hypocritical everytime I confront you.

This argument? Whether or not White people has any benefits based on race. Vs.?

What is the opposing argument? How is this a complete debate.. this doesnt make sense? At first I was going to humor the synopsis of this debate with random banter but, everytime I look around people put words in my mouth. Taking my sarcasm serious, isnt safe for your sanity because when I am forced to say that I was making satire you make reference to more sarcasm. I am now made to be serious, and dear god hell hath no fury like me scorned.

If you really want me to debate here fine. Ranting on your subject with no Opposing debate isnt professional its just ME TALKING ABOUT YOUR TOPIC.

I WILL.. okay? Hope you're happy.

In the debate of White Privilege (YEEEHAW) Vs. White not having privilege (Im assuming this is the opposing argument). . which isnt strong at all.. based on there is nothing really to debate about its kinda like saying the sky being blue vs. the sky being white.

Im going to evaluate on this subject.

http://whiteprivilege.com/definition/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege

By your theory since it has a definition it exist regardless on further references. So in terms since wikipedia is a plausible reference, I rest my case that white privilege -is- in fact in existence.

(sorry for mutilating your post man, I fucking hate how the edit button is in the same place as the reply button was before I got mod, fucks me up constantly -N)

 

[___]

Okay you cant see past the sarcasm in my post for me to actually be direct to you.

My point

*Stop saying minorities are out to get you, rather than a select few (DONT TAKE THIS TO LITERALLY)

I don't believe minorities are out to get me at all, I actually don't think anyone's out to get anyone on a societal level.  I believe that inequalities exist mostly because of people who have obtained special status wanting to preserve that status; wholly natural. 

Literal point

*You're being impossible, you're changing your argument and being hypocritical everytime I confront you.

I can see how you mistook my purpose and I understand your position; for that I apologize, I got carried away.

This argument? Whether or not White people has any benefits based on race. Vs.?

What is the opposing argument? How is this a complete debate.. this doesnt make sense?

Basically.  My position is that: white people do not receive benefits or privileges just because they are white, and that the fact that white people on average have a higher quality of life does not mean that all white people have implicitly improved quality of life because of their "race".  The opposing argument would be that all white people do have an implicitly better life just because they are white; that being white makes every white person's life a little easier than if they belonged to any other ethnic group.

The bar to proving my point would be to show that a significant portion of white people enjoy no special privileges in life that people of other groups with similar economic status do not.

The bar to proving the opposite point would be to show that the vast majority of white people receive a special privilege, and that that privilege exists because they're white.

At first I was going to humor the synopsis of this debate with random banter but, everytime I look around people put words in my mouth. Taking my sarcasm serious, isnt safe for your sanity because when I am forced to say that I was making satire you make reference to more sarcasm. I am now made to be serious, and dear god hell hath no fury like me scorned.

If you really want me to debate here fine. Ranting on your subject with no Opposing debate isnt professional its just ME TALKING ABOUT YOUR TOPIC.

The point of the symposium is debate, this isn't a forum for commentary and opinions, that's general discussion.  Some people on the internetz like having serious discussions about controversial topics; this is a haven for people on RMXP who do.  Accordingly your sarcasm doesn't belong here and your comments will be taken as a serious position or supporting one.

I WILL.. okay? Hope you're happy.

In the debate of White Privilege (YEEEHAW) Vs. White not having privilege (Im assuming this is the opposing argument). . which isnt strong at all.. based on there is nothing really to debate about its kinda like saying the sky being blue vs. the sky being white.

Im going to evaluate on this subject.

http://whiteprivilege.com/definition/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege

By your theory since it has a definition it exist regardless on further references. So in terms since wikipedia is a plausible reference, I rest my case that white privilege -is- in fact in existence.

I'm not sure where you got the impression that "if it has a definition it exists".  The only referencing I've done in this thread is to demonstrate some logical fallacies and misconceptions that are independent of the topic.

The Wikipedia article you linked contains a minor subset of the criticisms of the theory of white privilege contained in this thread. It is a fairly good definition and description of the topic.  The other link also brings up most of the points of my opposition.  His major effort is to show that white privilege exists because of historical causes, and it exists as a deficit between white people and black people on various levels, and that action in society should be taken to correct it.

I accept and don't argue with the premise that prejudice against various groups exists, and that the repercussions of that prejudice echo through modern society and influence to a large extent the status into which a person is likely to be born.  Further that status will influence on a deep and fundamental level his psyche, his opportunities, and the general quality of his life.

I disagree with the assertion that this prejudice has been drawn along lines of skin color.  Earlier in this thread and in the Immigration thread (where I support open immigration), I discussed how and why the "white" race doesn't exist.  It's an illusion created by a false assumption of unity amongst people who have light-colored skin.  Various groups of white-colored people have been brutally persecuted in this country's past.  While only black people have existed in slavery by name, economic conditions including indentured servitude and unconscionable living and working conditions for people of many backgrounds, especially immigrant groups of a given era, have suffered the same or extremely similar impacts on every level of their lives.

I don't argue with the idea that black people have suffered more in this country than any other people by far, in terms of time, in terms of extremity, and in terms of population.  I couldn't agree more, and I am proud to exist in an era where we are making efforts to right the wrongs perpetuated by our ancestors and close the gap; I sincerely hope my son grows up in a society where the concept of segregation and racism isn't just objectionable, it's alien.

However this topic isn't just about black people and the struggles they've been through.  It's about whether or not all white people are better off than any minority just for having been born white.

If you really want to break it down farther, it's about whether "white people" actually exist.  Am I a member of the same "race" of people as the ones that currently control our society?  Do I share any common ancestry?  No.  Do I share political motivations? No.  Do I share economic status?  No.  Do I share preferential treatment they receive?  No.  How many people that we consider "white" are actually part of the stereotype of the "privileged white person"?  I argue that very few of us are.  I'm not "white", I'm Scottish immigrant by heritage, and a mutt by geneology.  Most "white" people could tell you the same.

So to refine what I'm trying to say, I believe "white privilege" is a misnomer, because it too broadly defines the privileged class.  I am willing to acknowledge a subset of the privileged class that exists wholly of white people; that they enjoy special quality of life above and beyond privileged people of other races because they do not suffer the prejudices and the historic backgrounds those people do.  I just don't believe I belong to that class.

My real underlying motivation here, above and beyond the scope of this topic, is to demonstrate that underprivileged people have much more in common in terms of needs, goals, and dreams, than we have in common with other people who share our skin color but are not underprivileged.  I feel that despite the differences in flavor of our subjugation and facts of history, we are all caught in a growing mire of poverty that is much more difficult to climb out of than our society would like to believe.  We are all fighting against a broken economic system that will keep most of us in a situation where we can't afford the standard of living we believe all people are entitled to.  There is no reason why a person of any background should have to make a decision between health care and food, or why any person working more than full time should not be able to support his family and provide them with basic needs.  There is no excuse for a society in which a large portion of people are put in a situation that they have to commit crime in order to survive.  I think the answers to the problems poverty creates lie outside racial barriers.

Anyways I have to step out for a bit, I have a killer headache and probably some things that need to be done that I'm neglecting.  I'll check in again this evening.

 

[Airose]

I agree with you completely, as I said numerous times before.. Nyphx. I dont really see this as a debate. There may be in the world some people looking to hire just because of someone being a girl, boy, white, black, or anything else.. but in general life isnt all roses and candy just because of this.

I hate arguing about racial matters.. because it means people still realized that the more you try to dilute us based on race, the more annoying it gets when it comes to befriending the other race. Maybe I'm a tad uppity on this matter.. but this is not a table at a high school.

We're not cursing your bloodlines because you were born white, I grew up in an assorted enviroment of ethnicities. (Well through my teenage years) There was no malice towards our colleagues from racial matters.. in fact there was a bit too much friendliness.. alot of mixies( Yes MIX- EES). I never, -never-, NEVER said or thought; "Damn those white people, they have it so much better!". There was never an issue of difference, it was never even brought up.. the first time I heard anything racial was on the internet honestly.

So forgive me if I am critical on this stuff.. but whenever I see something like..

Well honestly you didnt say anything in your first post that infuriated me about this topic.. Actually Despain and rmxp_dev did. Well you're okay with me lovey, I guess.

Also.. You're doing it again trailing off the topic. My head hurts, Im thirsty.. and I want to play Wild Arms 3. I have no desire to get warned so Im cashing in my chips for this debate <3 I am aware that I rarely said anything of significance, and for that I apologize, but you know I am really fickle when it comes to debates and this is more like a rant topic.

 

[holloway]

Oh for fucks sakes, life is rarely affected by race nowadays. Is a class issue. Are there more minorities in lower classes? Undoubtedly, but that is not the White Man putting you down for being black.

These debates are always bullshit put forward by people from both sides who cannot be bothered to actually work, instead blaming it on the Blacks or the Whites.