White Privilege

[So fist]

Rmxp_dev, calm down.  Take a breath and read dissonance's post again.  You can't act as if your thoughts are self evident.  You have a claim.  Back it up.

 

[Marcus]

Folks let's be honest with ourselves that their is no economic parity along certain demographic lines.  I won't call it by some conspiratorial term such as white privilege, but we cannot deny that there is still an historic economic and social gap that exists on the aggregate level.  It's been the dilemma since Sherman proposed 40 acres and a mule.  Without reasonable economic parity freedom and the pursuit of happiness exists on paper only.  Affirmative action is another revisitation of this issue and its outcome is more akin to President Johnson's reversal of forty acres than anything else.  It bred resentment without addressing any of the root causes of inequality within the communities themselves. 

Just to add to this, there will never be equality in America because there's always a majority and there will always be a single person or group who controls the power.  The only form of government (ONLY) that actually gives power to the people and equal share is communism as Marx proposed and that will never happen in the history of the world... ever.  I can bet you my soul on that.

 

[rmxp_dev]

Rmxp_dev, calm down.  Take a breath and read dissonance's post again.  You can't act as if your thoughts are self evident.  You have a claim.  Back it up.

I have already backed it up. Without Equality in Education, Blacks on AVERAGE cannot become financially equal to Whites. I would like to hear her reasons why she thinks ON AVERAGE, Blacks earn less than Whites. Is she really going to blame that on Blacks?

This attitude that Blacks are poorer than Whites is due to "Laziness" or "Intellectually dumber" is an attitude I find soo reprehensible because it is so dishonest and so untrue. They are basically saying, Blacks are inferior. This is racist.

I'm waiting for her response on this matter.

 

[So fist]

Marcus I'm using parity for a reason.  I could care less whether everyone is raking in the same amount of bucks.  My concern is that everyone has a relatively fair opportunity to get what they want. There will always be rich and poor but the numbers on minorities are radically askew from their white counterparts.  The more competition the better it is for everyone, right?  At least that's what Adam Smith says...

I have already backed it up. Without Equality in Education, Blacks on AVERAGE cannot become financially equal to Whites. I would like to hear her reasons why she thinks ON AVERAGE, Blacks earn less than Whites. Is she really going to blame that on Blacks?

This is an attitude I find reprehensible because it is so dishonest and so untrue.

She never said that champ.  That's why I said you should take a deep breath.  She was merely pointing out that you are using circular logic.  I.E. Blacks are poorer than whites therefore there is White privilege.  There is white privilege because blacks are poorer than whites.  Your premise is used to prove itself which makes it a fallacy and thus isn't useful logic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_logic

 

[Despain]

That's some wild leap you've made there. How does Black people being poorer than Whites have any correlation to their IQ? Why even introduce IQ here?

That's the exact point I was making- read my fucking posts.

jesus fuck i give up.

Marcus is on the "opposing side" but he's actually doing a god job debating this and part of me wants to continue because it's a topic I'm interested in. Sorry Marcus, but dude I just give up, rmxp_dev is having a hard time understanding anything that I'm trying to say.

 

[rmxp_dev]

That's some wild leap you've made there. How does Black people being poorer than Whites have any correlation to their IQ? Why even introduce IQ here?

That's the exact point I was making- read my fucking posts.

jesus fuck i give up.

Marcus is on the "opposing side" but he's actually doing a god job debating this and part of me wants to continue because it's a topic I'm interested in. Sorry Marcus, but dude I just give up, rmxp_dev is having a hard time understanding anything that I'm trying to say.

That's some wild leap you've made there. How does Black people being poorer than Whites have any correlation to their IQ? Why even introduce IQ here?

That's the exact point I was making- read my fucking posts.

jesus fuck i give up.

Marcus is on the "opposing side" but he's actually doing a god job debating this and part of me wants to continue because it's a topic I'm interested in. Sorry Marcus, but dude I just give up, rmxp_dev is having a hard time understanding anything that I'm trying to say.

You have no point. And I did explain it. Why don't you read what I wrote about Majority rule. There's your answer.

You make no sense because, you have no point. Nada. All you want to do is argue about Logic but you're not showing any logical reasoning.

I've made a Logical reasoning. Majority Rule = White Privilege.

Unless you have a response to this, then don't bother. You've been more fodder for amusement and comedy than anything substantive. You make wild claims and you want to be taken seriously?

 

[rmxp_dev]

Marcus I'm using parity for a reason.  I could care less whether everyone is raking in the same amount of bucks.  My concern is that everyone has a relatively fair opportunity to get what they want. There will always be rich and poor but the numbers on minorities are radically askew from their white counterparts.  The more competition the better it is for everyone, right?  At least that's what Adam Smith says...

I have already backed it up. Without Equality in Education, Blacks on AVERAGE cannot become financially equal to Whites. I would like to hear her reasons why she thinks ON AVERAGE, Blacks earn less than Whites. Is she really going to blame that on Blacks?

This is an attitude I find reprehensible because it is so dishonest and so untrue.

She never said that champ.  That's why I said you should take a deep breath.  She was merely pointing out that you are using circular logic.  I.E. Blacks are poorer than whites therefore there is White privilege.  There is white privilege because blacks are poorer than whites.  Your premise is used to prove itself which makes it a fallacy and thus isn't useful logic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_logic

Sigh. I've said multiple times how White Majority creates White privilege, resulting in disparities that can be shown in various statistics. This is not Circular Logic.

 

[Yeyinde]

rmxp_dev, watch out!  According to my calculations, you happen to be trolling.  Please cease and desist or we will be forced to take preemptive action.

You have also double posted.  You have one final stroke, skippy.

 

[Despain]

rmxp_dev, please do not double post. There is an edit button for a reason.

Additionally, you claim that you're not using circular logic, yet pretty much everybody in this topic sees that you clearly are. Apparently you are simply having an incredibly hard time explaining what you're trying to say.

Could you please, in a clear and concise paragraph, explain your reasoning and the point that it proves? If you cannot do that, I'm afraid you have no place in the topic.

 

[Dissonance]

How exactly does inequalites among the races link up to white privilege? That's where you're confusing people, tiger. You're spouting out "black people are poorer than white people" - which proves what? Nothing, other than black people are poorer than white people. It has nothing to do with white privilege on its own. It's your job to connect the gap.

Wrong. The fact that Black people are poorer than White people on average is clear evidence of White privilege. I AM connecting the dots. You're the one who's not.

Wow um.

While I do think that white privilege exists, you are fucking retarded.

You need to look at WHY BLACK PEOPLE ARE POORER THAN WHITE PEOPLE you dumb cunt.  Not just say it and expect people to go "oh yes you are totally right!"

Wow. Are you also going to say Blacks are Poorer than white people they are Intellectually inferioer, and more Lazy?

Wow. Wow. Wow.

Holygod, do read my post again edited.

You are saying "BLACKS ARE POORER THAN WHITE PEOPLE".  I am agreeing, saying that THAT ALONE is not proof of white privilege, and that you now need to discuss WHY blacks are poorer than whites if you want to connect the dots.

Don't push your lack of evidence off on me, edited.

Why is it that basically, American and Western European countries today are the richest? Do you really think it's because Caucasians work harder and are more intelligent?

You really need to examine European History and examine the reasons the world is the way it is today.

Don't go down this route, Martin Luther.  You'll find a good number of asian countries that are on equal grounds as western ones, and a whole shitload of european countries that are shitholes.

 

[rmxp_dev]

I've already stated everything that needs to be stated. I'm out of this thread. And the fact that a couple of people accused me of Circular Logic does not make it so. I've already explained that White Majority Rule in a Democratic country result in White privilege. And this can be demonstrated in disparities in many statistics between Whites, and minorities. These disparities are not due to racial stereotypes, but a result of White privilege that help Whites have a better life as indicated by statistics.

Holygod, do read my post again faggot.

You are saying "BLACKS ARE POORER THAN WHITE PEOPLE".  I am agreeing, saying that THAT ALONE is not proof of white privilege, and that you now need to discuss WHY blacks are poorer than whites if you want to connect the dots.

Don't push your lack of evidence off on me, you dumb cunt.

Cursing and calling names does not help your argument in any way.

I've explained WHY Blacks are poorer.

Please try to follow.

Poor Education leads to Poor Jobs.
Good Education leads to Good jobs.

Good jobs lead to Higher Income.


In America, Black children receive inferior Education. Lack of Education prohibits Blacks from getting Good jobs, and therefore, resulting in lower Incomes than Whites.

 

[mawk]

He is being racist in that he is using a racial stereotype to answer why Blacks are poorer than Whites.  Human beings are basically the same. You can't say, Blacks are lazier than Whites. That is such a racist way to view people, and the world. Yes, there are MANY reasons why Blacks trail Whites, but none of them has to do with Blacks being inferior.

I hate jumping into this sort of discussion (and I sincerely doubt I'm qualified to talk about it,) but immediately following his "blacks are less intelligent" example, he added a disclaimer saying that those were not his beliefs, and that he was using it merely to demonstrate how messed up X person's logic is.

Statistics themselves rarely prove anything. There are too many factors contributing to the situation to say "oh, X is less than X because of X." Humans are never that simple unless they've been lobotomized. The rare statistical diagram that represents things as they actually are only proves that things are that way -- not why. You've proven that white people have an advantage over black people, okay. This doesn't prove your assertions about the causes. Black people could be poorer than white people based on the cycles of the moon, however many salmon spawned last spring, white privilege -- pick your explanation, really.

For all intents and purposes, I'm neutral on this issue, so please don't try to prove anything to me. I've heard many good arguments from both sides. I just hate to hear people talking out their asses.

 

[Despain]

I've already explained that White Majority Rule in a Democratic country result in White privilege. And this can be demonstrated in disparities in many statistics between Whites, and minorities.

You. Never. Once. Showed. Any. Sort. Of. Connection. Between. These. Two. Concepts. And. You. Are. Still. Refusing. To. Do. So.

Enough. You're done with this topic anyway, sport.

 

[Dissonance]

I've already stated everything that needs to be stated. And the fact that a couple of people accused me of Circular Logic does not make it so. I've already explained that White Majority Rule in a Democratic country result in White privilege. And this can be demonstrated in disparities in many statistics between Whites, and minorities. These disparities are not due to racial stereotypes, but a result of White privilege that help Whites have a better life as indicated by statistics.

This summarizes your points nicely but does nothing.

Post links to studies that prove these disparities.  Polls.  Articles.  Whatever.  Don't just talk on and on.  You're trying to prove something so PROVE IT... with evidence!

I'm out of this thread.

The only reason you're out of this thread is because you're a god damn fucking crybaby who can't stand it when his fragile beliefs are questioned (where 'questioned' = providing some fucking proof other than your own word and 'look on google lul')

The very fact that you even took the god damn time to tell us I'M LEAVING instead of just getting the fuck out means that one, you have no proof to back up a damn thing you've said, and two, you are way too immature to discuss this sort of thing. And if you were going to leave, why the shit are you still watching the thread faggot?

Please kill yourself.

 

[So fist]

Your statistics only prove disparity.  You need to prove how White privilege is the root cause as well as further proof the phenomenon exists.  You may also want to point out what you even mean by white privilege.  Its a really loaded phrase that isn't helping much.

Making the leap from those statistics to white privilege with no further evidence on the matter is what's causing your logic to be cyclical.

 

[mawk]

I'm hearing distinct similarities (lol oxymoron) here between RMDev's conduct in this thread and Silver's conduct months past in the Homosexuality thread.

Look it up.

 

[___]

In that case we don't really need equal populations, we just need representation proportional to the needs and desires of the population.  In a country where there are only two political parties of any note and they agree on the majority of all issues (fuck the little guy then give him a reach-around so he'll shut up about it, basically) there is no real representation for anyone at all.  This is because of a broken electoral system.  It's the best they could come up with at the time, and better than any other at the time, but the United States is seriously behind the game in providing balanced representation to different interest groups now, and that's regardless of whether those groups are divided on racial, ideological, religious or other lines.

I've only given you ONE example of how White Privilege is created ie through the Democratic process in which Whites are the majority. There are many other ways in which it is also created.

What about Financial System? Capitalism? Most of the consumers and therefore, sellers are Whites. How would that affect Financial Equality among races?

What about Popular culture like movies? Social norms like popular opinion? How would a White majority help to create White Privilege in those areas?

The answer is, whether in Economic, or Social, or Religion, In every way, the Majority set the "laws". This is what you define as White Privilege. White Majority. Wielding all the powers, political, economic, social.

When you take all this into account, you begin to understand the immense Privilege White people enjoy. You can't see it in your personal life, but maybe that's because you're White. And not a Minority.

I think this argument really reaches, especially in light of the fact of cultural fads.  Much more has been done in this country to explore cultures of diverse minorities than to explore the white european's cultural descent.  Hell I learned more about various native american and african tribes in middle school than I did about my own scottish heritage; all I knew about Scottland is that people played bagpipes and wore plaid.  I could have told you more about the culture and beliefs of Australian aborigines than I could have about Celtic folk.  I could have been accepted more readily for blaring rap or jap-pop from my car radio in high school (haha as if i had one...) than bagpipes.  If I went to school wearing a kilt, I'd have been sent home.  I could carry on like this, but seriously. 

If you want to look hard enough you can imagine racism, prejudice, or privilege anywhere you like.  If I moved to China or Africa or India I wouldn't cry racism if I couldn't find someone to sell me some haggis though, just saying.

 

[rmxp_dev]

Your statistics only prove disparity.  You need to prove how White privilege is the root cause as well as further proof the phenomenon exists.  You may also want to point out what you even mean by white privilege.  Its a really loaded phrase that isn't helping much.

Making the leap from those statistics to white privilege with no further evidence on the matter is what's causing your logic to be cyclical.

The link between White privilege and Statistical Disparities do not need to be proven. for they are self-evident. How are laws and policies constructed in this country? Through Congress, and Supreme Court. And the Executive Branch. Who controls the Govn't? Whites.

All the disparities that are shown by many statistics between Whites and minorites are a consequence to White Rule ie White Privilege. This link does not require proof. All you have to do is examine the Laws that were created in the History of the USA that gave a competitive Advantage to Whites.

You want evidence of this Link between White rule, and statistical disparities. I say that Link is self-evident when one examines the History of this country.

You are still watching this thread fag.

You said you were going, now GTFO.

The only reason you're out of this thread is because you're a god damn fucking crybaby who can't stand it when his fragile beliefs are questioned (where 'questioned' = providing some fucking proof other than your own word and 'look on google lul')

The very fact that you even took the god damn time to tell us I'M LEAVING instead of just getting the fuck out means that one, you have no proof to back up a damn thing you've said, and two, you are way too immature to discuss this sort of thing. And if you were going to leave, why the shit are you still watching the thread faggot?

Please kill yourself.

Dissonance, you have now also become more of a source of amusement, and comedy than anything substantial. You have no argument so you resort to name calling, and foul language. Do you have ANYTHING useful to contribute? Anything?

 

[Dissonance]

This link does not require proof.

Yeah, you totally have no argument.

I mean, you're right, and others in this thread have and will continue to prove it via legitimate means.

But you're just talking and saying nothing other than "it's obvious" and "look it up yourself".

Dissonance, you have now also become more of a source of amusement, and comedy than anything substantial.

I said that for a very specific reason and in reference to another general rule .org has - If you're going to make a big fuss about leaving the forum over on the introductions/farewells forum (known as dramaleaving) and then later come back, that generally means that you should be banned for stirring up unnecessary drama bullshit.

Do you see the connection?

Don't go "wahhh i'm not playin anymore" and then come back to the argument.

 

[So fist]

White privilege does not need to be proven.

This link does not require proof.

I say that Link is self-evident

Okay, but then we have to agree its useless circular logic.  It may convince your friends in high school, but those of us who wear the white collar and actually are in the trenches facing this issue are unimpressed.  What laws by the way are ensuring this white dominion?

Frankly I find institutionalized poverty and poor inner city public education to be the root cause.  Not some top down conspiracy.  Its merely our inheritance from the era of segregation when public housing and welfare support was doled along racial lines. 

On a side note the battle in New Orleans over the future in public housing is a rather ironic one.  Most of the public projects down there were built during segregation with the intention of imposing that policy within the city.  Now a sizable African American minority is fighting to keep it that way instead of moving onto mixed income models which is actually better for them in many ways.