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White Privilege

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Wumpi":2f0zcupv said:
rmxp_dev, I suggest you stop saying YOUR WRONG without backing up your points.

You've given us examples of how white privilege could be created. However, the fact that something could exist proves nothing. It's not objective. Hell, it's not even subjective, it's completely theoretical.

May I suggest you give us examples of the effects of the white privilege that you claim exists. You know, the end results, the bits that can be measured.

I've already given you empirical evidence of White privilege in the form of statistics that measure Income, Health, Life Expectancy, etc by races.

Remember, not everything can be measured, but among things that can be measured, Whites lead every category. Why is that? This is due to White privilege.
 

Anonymous

Guest

This imbalance can be seen in statistic after statistic. Quality of life, Education, Income, Health, etc all across the board, Whites will enjoy a higher advantage than minorities. And there are some things that cannot be measureed in a statistic.

If that's what you're referring to, I hope you have evidence to back up that claim.
 
Wumpi":1sktl2gz said:
This imbalance can be seen in statistic after statistic. Quality of life, Education, Income, Health, etc all across the board, Whites will enjoy a higher advantage than minorities. And there are some things that cannot be measureed in a statistic.


If that's what you're referring to, I hope you have evidence to back up that claim.

uh what? you've never seen statistics that measure income, life expectancy, home ownership, etc by race?

Google it, and you'll find plenty of evidence of White privilege.

And let me underscore this: These statistics show only a narrow scope of White Privilege. There are some things that simply can't be measured but still exist.
 

loam

Member

Dissonance":2g20nkkf said:
Keep in mind western society is built on perpetuating the idea that the normal is good,

Hey now. Be careful; all societies do that.

Wumpi":2g20nkkf said:
rmxp_dev, I suggest you stop saying YOUR WRONG without backing up your points.

You've given us examples of how white privilege could be created. However, the fact that something could exist proves nothing. It's not objective. Hell, it's not even subjective, it's completely theoretical.

May I suggest you give us examples of the effects of the white privilege that you claim exists. You know, the end results, the bits that can be measured.

Ack, don't encourage people to post links! Especially ones you can google or wikipedia in two seconds. :tongue:

There is a correlation between a person's name and their likelihood of receiving a call back for a job interview. A field experiment in Boston and Chicago showed that people with "white-sounding" names are 50% more likely to receive a call back than people with "black-sounding" names, despite equal resumé quality between the two racial groups. [22]

Minority students are less likely to be placed in honors classes, even when justified by test scores. [27] [28] [29]

Oh my god, blacks get less call backs? Unfair! Stop affirmative action!

etc etc
 

Anonymous

Guest

loam, I shouldn't have to google or wikipedia anything, I'm not the one who's trying to prove the point. I'm not going to do extra work to prove someone else's arguement to myself.
 
Wumpi":3auuhref said:
loam, I shouldn't have to google or wikipedia anything, I'm not the one who's trying to prove the point. I'm not going to do extra work to prove someone else's arguement to myself.

Based on your logic, you are trying to prove White Privilege doesn't exist, and therefore, you should be providing statistics that prove there is measureable equality amongst Races.

If you could find a consistent equality in statistical measurements, then indeed, there is no empirical evidence for White Privilege.

I am not trying to prove anything nor am I trying to convince YOU of anything. Nor should I have to provide statistics that are easily googled.

The reality is, White Privilege does exist, and there is statistical evidence proving it exists. Like I said, this shouldn't even be an argument.

Proving White privilege exists does nothing, nor will it change anything. So I am not trying to prove anything.
 
How exactly does inequalites among the races link up to white privilege? That's where you're confusing people, tiger. You're spouting out "black people are poorer than white people" - which proves what? Nothing, other than black people are poorer than white people. It has nothing to do with white privilege on its own. It's your job to connect the gap.

I might as well cite the exact same things that you are citing, and make the point that black people are lazy. Hell, they're poorer than white people, right? So it logically follows that it's their own fault and don't care enough to get good jobs.

Also, you still haven't shown where it matters that it exists. Yeah, it exists- so what. What is it and what does it do? According to your logic, you're using your proof that it exists and the end result as the same thing. That's bad logic if I've ever seen it. You might not be aware of this, but your argument is structured as follows:

Statistics show that blacks are at a disadvantage. Therefore, white privilege exists. As a result of white privilege, blacks are at a disadvantage.

You're going in circles here, skipper.

Based on your logic, you are trying to prove White Privilege doesn't exist, and therefore, you should be providing statistics that prove there is measureable equality amongst Races.

Please don't fall into that fallacy. I don't want to explain it again, I've explained it over again and again in topics where people challenge atheists to prove that God doesn't exist. Even if the point she was making was that white privilege doesn't exist, it's not her job to prove that, it's your job to prove that it does.
 

Marcus

Sponsor

On top of that I don't get access to any of the special groups dedicated to narrowing the gap for minorities;
White people aren't the minority so why would you get a special group when it's not necessary?

there's no Fund For the Development of Poor White Boys that gives out college grants to people like me just because of my race
There's no fund that gives grants to poor minorities either.  There are funds for underprivileged youths and scholarship programs originally designed for minorities, but anyone can apply.  Do you know why you never hear of white people getting these grants?  Because they don't apply.  Simple.

Also, WHITE isn't a race.  "Black" is a generic term for people from Africa which is why we're commonly called "African-Americans."  But white people seem to have this fucking stigma about who they are and where they come from and refuse to realise that they originally came from a country called EUROPE.  THERE ARE European funding programs... and white people come from various parts of Europe so why do they still complain?  The only group of people who claim that WHITE is a race are Aryans and they're the same people who think every non Aryan should be exterminated.

there's no Whitey Reservation Casinos that pay out 500 bucks a month (my friend has some Cherokee blood, lucky bastard, he gets more than that and free college tuition too)
America was once the land of the Indians.  White people stole the land, murdered 90% of the population, and now keeps them in reservations which are so poor and decrepit they're practically prisons.  500 dollars a month is a pittant sum for having your fucking home destroyed and your people raped and all you have to show for it is a race that makes up less than 2% of the population and has the highest alchoholism and suicide rate in the country.

there's no Men's Rights Movement out there to make sure I'm getting payed competitive wages by my employers
It's called minimum wage laws.  Regardless, if you have a job that doesn't pay competitive wages then you have the power to quit or ask for a raise.  Simple as that.

there's no Nataional Association Against Anti-Whiteyism that makes sure someone else who got my job didn't get it just because he wasn't white.
It's called a job interview.  It makes me laugh when people say that companies higher underqualified personel just because they're minorities but people like that fail to realize that a job interview is the most important factor in deciding if you're going to work for someone.  If a nice black guy with a high school degree and a jackass white guy with a bachelors apply for a customer service position, I guarantee you the job will go to the nice black guy.  I've seen recorded video tapes of job interviews and HOLY SHIT do people either come off as arrogant jerks or they have a paper thin personality.  I wouldn't hire you even if you were a rocket scientist... or I'd atleast put you in a dark corner where no one would interact with you.
 
How exactly does inequalites among the races link up to white privilege? That's where you're confusing people, tiger. You're spouting out "black people are poorer than white people" - which proves what? Nothing, other than black people are poorer than white people. It has nothing to do with white privilege on its own. It's your job to connect the gap.

Wrong. The fact that Black people are poorer than White people on average is clear evidence of White privilege. I AM connecting the dots. You're the one who's not.

Your answer reminds me of DICK CHENEY.

Reporter: Dick, how do you respond to the fact that most Americans are against the Iraq war?

Dick: So?




I might as well cite the exact same things that you are citing, and make the point that black people are lazy. Hell, they're poorer than white people, right? So it logically follows that it's their own fault and don't care enough to get good jobs.

And why are they poorer? Because they can't get good jobs that White people can. And why is that? Because they do not have quality Education to provide them those skills. And why is that? Because WHITE people UNDER-FUND Black public schools, while WHITE neighborhoods receive sufficient funds to provide quality education.

Your assertion that Blacks are lazier than Whites is border-line Racist.  My point is, there's a long list of reasons why these statistics show Blacks fall behind Whites in almost every measurable category. Why do Blacks not have as high House Ownership? Because White Banks do not want to give out loans to Minorities. Why is that? Because racism is ingrained in American society.



Also, you still haven't shown where it matters that it exists. Yeah, it exists- so what. What is it and what does it do? According to your logic, you're using your proof that it exists and the end result as the same thing. That's bad logic if I've ever seen it. You might not be aware of this, but your argument is structured as follows:

Statistics show that blacks are at a disadvantage. Therefore, white privilege exists. As a result of white privilege, blacks are at a disadvantage.

You're going in circles here, skipper.

Amazing. Are you sure you're not Dick Cheney's long lost brother?

ok, you ADMIT WHite privilege exists. And your response is, SOOOO??? HAHAHA!! You crack me up, dude!! HAHAHA.
 

loam

Member

Wumpi":2nqxwnxp said:
loam, I shouldn't have to google or wikipedia anything, I'm not the one who's trying to prove the point. I'm not going to do extra work to prove someone else's arguement to myself.

Despain":2nqxwnxp said:
Please don't fall into that fallacy. I don't want to explain it again, I've explained it over again and again in topics where people challenge atheists to prove that God doesn't exist. Even if the point she was making was that white privilege doesn't exist, it's not her job to prove that, it's your job to prove that it does.

These can probably be addressed simultaneously. Obviously it's contentious (as we see in this thread), but "White Privilege" (and moreso male white privilege, though that hasn't been brought up yet) is an idea well enough established in political discourse that it doesn't have to be proven -- it's already accepted. The idea is central to the basis of affirmative action, for if minorities weren't at a disadvantage, they wouldn't need to be given an advantage. Now this is exactly what some people have been arguing. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's just that if you're going to argue against affirmative action (I dunno if want to, but that's been a focal point so far), you have to prove your own point, too.

The idea is out there. You know what it is. There are books written about it. You can take classes on it. The consequences of it already effects your lives (the consequences of the idea of white privilege, as it influences affirmative action and social policy). So why can't the argument start from there? Why does it have to start from square one? Because if it does, you better know how to build your logic from the ground up axiom by axiom, because nothing in this thread proves circular arguments aren't cogent. That information is presupposed. So is information about white privilege.

It's silly to expect one side to have to prove their point, and not do the same for your own. :huh:

p.s. statistical evidence of white privilege was posted, for those who were counting. We can keep arguing about how we want to argue though, if that suits everyone better.
 
Um... you completely ignored everything I was saying, hoss.

You also took my example out of contest. Let me clarify for you.

And why are they poorer? Because they can't get good jobs that White people can.

No, they cannot get jobs because black people are naturally less intelligent than white people. Your statistics, which show that black people are poorer than white people, prove that black people are less intelligent than white people.

Note that I don't actually think this, but I apparently have to take it this far to point out the massive flaws in your argument. I wasn't even arguing with you directly at this point, I was trying to explain to you how profoundly inaccurate your logic is, and you just miss the point completely.

I say "so what?" to your assertion that white privilege exists because you haven't given me anything that shows the negative affects of white privilege. Oh wait- you showed me statistics.

In which case, I say prove to me that it exists, in which case you don't. Oh wait- you showed me the same statistics.

Can you see the problem here at all?
 
rmxp_dev":3p8x2tfp said:
And why are they poorer? Because they can't get good jobs that White people can. And why is that? Because they do not have quality Education to provide them those skills. And why is that? Because WHITE people UNDER-FUND Black public schools, while WHITE neighborhoods receive sufficient funds to provide quality education.


What? Are you saying that Black People don't go to white schools? Plaenty of African-Americans went to the same schools I did, and I'm positive plenty of white children go to Black public schools. Are you telling me that these Black kids in white schools won't get jobs? And how do WHITE people under-fund these schools? Black people can be on school boards too, buddy. Infact, in a prominantly black community, I'm sure the school board contains at least a few African Americans, if it isn't dominantly African American in the first place. Therefore, BLACK people under-fund BLACK schools.


Your assertion that Blacks are lazier than Whites is border-line Racist.  My point is, there's a long list of reasons why these statistics show Blacks fall behind Whites in almost every measurable category. Why do Blacks not have as high House Ownership? Because White Banks do not want to give out loans to Minorities. Why is that? Because racism is ingrained in American society.

Whoah, don't get ahead of yourself. He isn't being racist, he's pointing out that there are many different possible reasons that blacks are poorer than whites. And again, what the hell is the deal with WHITE banks? Are you saying that all BLACK banks are perfect angels? That BLACK banks are better than WHITE banks in this regard?
 
No, they cannot get jobs because black people are naturally less intelligent than white people. Your statistics, which show that black people are poorer than white people, prove that black people are less intelligent than white people.

Note that I don't actually think this, but I apparently have to take it this far to point out the massive flaws in your argument. I wasn't even arguing with you directly at this point, I was trying to explain to you how profoundly inaccurate your logic is, and you just miss the point completely.

That's some wild leap you've made there. How does Black people being poorer than Whites have any correlation to their IQ? Why even introduce IQ here?

The reason QOL (Quality of Life) statistics are evidence of a profound White Privilege is because in a country where POWER is determined democratically by votes, it is reasonable to correlate any racial differences in Economic, Educational and Social Measurements DIRECTLY WITH Majority Rule or Power. Majority Rule is the essence of White Privilege.

Are you claiming that in a Democratic country, there are no positive benefits with being part of the Majority Group?

If you want to be intellectually honest, then you must agree that there are positive benefits with being part of the Majority, instead of the Minority in a Democratic country.

This positive benefit is White Privilege. It means that White people have the BEST CHANCE at living the best possible life because you will have it easier than Minorities.
 

Marcus

Sponsor

I say "so what?" to your assertion that white privilege exists because you haven't given me anything that shows the negative affects of white privilege. Oh wait- you showed me statistics.

What?  You don't see how keeping one class above another is detrimental to both the growth of a nation and the economy itself?  You don't realise that by limiting a combined 48% of the population (counting all non-white races here), crime rates rise as people resort to extreme methods to maintain a living.  You don't see how the arrogant attitudes derived from elitism evolves into hate groups that are still active to this very date?  You don't see how large concentrations of minority residences also known as "ghettos" depreciate the value of the area?

I'm confused as to what everyone's definition of white privilege is because it seems that some people don't even know what the hell they're getting.  White people are the majority; they control the market.  That's not saying that every white person is OUT TO GET BLACKEY LOL but being IN CONTROL is AUTOMATICALLY a PRIVILEGE.  

But this isn't something I'm surprised about at all.  "Statistically" speaking, the minority of every country is poorer and "less educated" than the majority and that's because "statistics" favor the majority (fucking common sense basic level math here).  
 

Marcus

Sponsor

Are you telling me that these Black kids in white schools won't get jobs?

There's a difference between a job and a career.  With a job, you can expect to be payed minimum wage and you usually won't have the option of a savings plan or 401k.  Even if the option is offered, a person who has to support a family most likely won't have the extra cash to save.

A career is something you actually make a living off of but how do you get a career you ask?  You have to go to college.  A poor person can't afford college tuition without a scholarship and even then a scholarship doesn't cover the entire 4 year cost it takes to get a degree.  See how this works?  Poor, underprivileged people (black or white it doesn't matter) can't afford college thus they cannot get high paying jobs thus they turn to crime or other extreme measures of making money thus they live in poor run down areas thus the land value for these areas drops because no one wants to live there thus the area becomes a hot zone of poor people who can't afford better housing thus the entire fucking circle continues.  How is this NOT apparent?

And how do WHITE people under-fund these schools? Black people can be on school boards too, buddy. Infact, in a prominantly black community, I'm sure the school board contains at least a few African Americans, if it isn't dominantly African American in the first place. Therefore, BLACK people under-fund BLACK schools.

Schools are funded through taxes and the local government decides where these taxes go.  The local government can decide that sanitation is a bigger issue than a public school OR school money could be spent on something totally arbitrary such as installing security cameras or fences instead of purchasing new textbooks or hiring better teachers.

EDIT: On a side note, schools can also be funded directly through fund raising.  I won't bother adding 1 and 1 together so I'll leave it to your intelligence to understand the irony in the last sentence.

Answer: A poor school can't raise money through fund raising because no one has the funds to raise it proving, once again, why the poor minority has a distinct disadvantage over the wealthy.
 
What? Are you saying that Black People don't go to white schools? Plaenty of African-Americans went to the same schools I did, and I'm positive plenty of white children go to Black public schools. Are you telling me that these Black kids in white schools won't get jobs? And how do WHITE people under-fund these schools? Black people can be on school boards too, buddy. Infact, in a prominantly black community, I'm sure the school board contains at least a few African Americans, if it isn't dominantly African American in the first place. Therefore, BLACK people under-fund BLACK schools.

Its a fact that Black children receive lower quality education than White children. This is not debateable. Look it up.

Whoah, don't get ahead of yourself. He isn't being racist, he's pointing out that there are many different possible reasons that blacks are poorer than whites. And again, what the hell is the deal with WHITE banks? Are you saying that all BLACK banks are perfect angels? That BLACK banks are better than WHITE banks in this regard?

He is being racist in that he is using a racial stereotype to answer why Blacks are poorer than Whites.  Human beings are basically the same. You can't say, Blacks are lazier than Whites. That is such a racist way to view people, and the world. Yes, there are MANY reasons why Blacks trail Whites, but none of them has to do with Blacks being inferior. It has to do with White Majority Rule that creates White Privilege in a 1000 different ways such that one outcome is, Whites earn more than Blacks. Not because Whites are better, but because Whites have Majority Rule.
 
rmxp_dev":2gczwflp said:
How exactly does inequalites among the races link up to white privilege? That's where you're confusing people, tiger. You're spouting out "black people are poorer than white people" - which proves what? Nothing, other than black people are poorer than white people. It has nothing to do with white privilege on its own. It's your job to connect the gap.

Wrong. The fact that Black people are poorer than White people on average is clear evidence of White privilege. I AM connecting the dots. You're the one who's not.

Wow um.

While I do think that white privilege exists, you are fucking retarded.

You need to look at WHY BLACK PEOPLE ARE POORER THAN WHITE PEOPLE you dumb cunt.  Not just say it and expect people to go "oh yes you are totally right!"
 
Folks let's be honest with ourselves that their is no economic parity along certain demographic lines.  I won't call it by some conspiratorial term such as white privilege, but we cannot deny that there is still an historic economic and social gap that exists on the aggregate level.  It's been the dilemma since Sherman proposed 40 acres and a mule.  Without reasonable economic parity freedom and the pursuit of happiness exists on paper only.  Affirmative action is another revisitation of this issue and its outcome is more akin to President Johnson's reversal of forty acres than anything else.  It bred resentment without addressing any of the root causes of inequality within the communities themselves. 

While affirmative action is able to rescue the future of the top 5% - 10% of these communities, it does so while the other 90 are largely ignored.  Affirmative action is the convenient excuse for inaction on the real issue that promotes the lack of economic parity along racial lines, access to quality education.  To give a salient example within my own state the wealthier well connected communities receive two to three thousand more dollars per pupil from the state than all of the inner city school systems with sizable minorities outside the state capital.  It is a stone cold fact.  Education is the only equalizer in this matter.  It is the only path to upward mobility, but across our nation inner city minorities are educated under some of the worst conditions in under funded schools in the midst of institutionalized poverty.  Yet it is allowed to go on, because a few of us pat ourselves on the back on the five or ten out of a hundred that we allowed a chance out of that circumstance.  Frankly until this issue in public education is addressed there will be little change in the matter.  The opportunity exists.  We are looking at a real possibility for an African American president for christ's sakes.  It is the means that is lacking now.

Also folks many schools are funded locally through property tax and state aid.  Meaning if the property in the city is a fucking slum there ain't going to be much to go around.
 
Dissonance":2jv1092k said:
rmxp_dev":2jv1092k said:
How exactly does inequalites among the races link up to white privilege? That's where you're confusing people, tiger. You're spouting out "black people are poorer than white people" - which proves what? Nothing, other than black people are poorer than white people. It has nothing to do with white privilege on its own. It's your job to connect the gap.

Wrong. The fact that Black people are poorer than White people on average is clear evidence of White privilege. I AM connecting the dots. You're the one who's not.

Wow um.

While I do think that white privilege exists, you are fucking retarded.

You need to look at WHY BLACK PEOPLE ARE POORER THAN WHITE PEOPLE you dumb cunt.  Not just say it and expect people to go "oh yes you are totally right!"

Wow. Are you also going to say Blacks are Poorer than white people they are Intellectually inferioer, and more Lazy?

Wow. Wow. Wow.

So please, tell me why you think Blacks are poorer than white people? Please explain it. Do you really believe Blacks are inferior?

Tell me, why are Whites rich in the world today? You don't think that perhaps because um, they pillaged and killed and stole from many non-White countries? Do you really think the Gold that exists in countries like Great Britain, France, Germany, Italy is gold they found in their land?

Why is it that basically, American and Western European countries today are the richest? Do you really think it's because Caucasians work harder and are more intelligent?

You really need to examine European History and examine the reasons the world is the way it is today.
 
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