Where do you think we go when we die?

[Nidhogg]

I see.

I forgot to tell that this is the only think I believe that happens to us. If that means that we will not think anymore, who cares? I mean, if we aren't thinking anymore, how could we fear not to do it? People are just afraid of non-existence. I can't say I'll exist forever, but I can say a proton, neutron, or eletron will. All I can say is that NOW I exist, and only a man with a gun can change that. I shouldn't care where I'll go when I die, but what I am doing right now, while I still exist. I know I'll not be trown into darkness or something like that, simply because I'll not see, feel, smell, or anything like it no more.

So basically, we cease our existence, altough we are still here, in some way. Hard to think at the beggining, but this isn't a logic that dificult...

 

[Roman Candle]

altough we are still here, in some way

If that were the case, then everything would always exist, since matter is never destroyed. It's the order of matter that makes something, not that matter itself.

 

[Dirtie]

My personal beliefs on the subject are based on the Bible.

The Bible says "The dead know nothing", that when we die we have no consciousness - at that point we (for all obvious intents and purposes) cease to exist. Our bodies decompose, etc, etc. However, as is prophesied in the Bible, at the second coming of Christ the righteous will be resurrected, and at that point be taken to heaven. Since we have no consciousness those people know nothing of the passing of time - it would be like an instant. So if you look at it that way the righteous really do go to heaven when they die, just not in the way most people think

I'm a little blurry about what is supposed to happen to the wicked, but I know the "hell" that they eventually go to is in reality just everlasting death. Those people who say that everlasting torment contradicts what God is all about, are in my view correct.


Some people mentioned that the environment you grow up in could prevent you from getting into heaven (if you subscribe to the popular viewpoint) - it is my belief that people are judged not on religion as such, but their capacity to have faith and love and follow God to the best their abilities and circumstances allow. If people are presented with evidence of God's love/plan and refuse to heed it, they are judged on that also.

 

[Anonymous]

This is one of the things that has always troubled me about the Church and its claims. Whilst God is supposed to be a loving, all-knowing father, it seems rather childish of him to impose us a set of rules (such as forced mass every sunday) to better "judge" our character. If he truly is all-knowing, I doubt He'll need to judge you for more than a nanosecond. Faith or religion does not man one good, it simply provides an ideal of good toward which one must aspire, the same as Kantian ethic.

Whether you choose to believe one or the other is up to you, but everyone needs an ideal of good and justice.

Now, that said, this is why I have such a hard time with hell and heaven. Considering I firmly believe everyone is equal, I have a hard time with the concept of Heaven/Hell and judgement. Seems a little harsh from a loving God to sentence his children to "eternal torture" for what...things they might've done over a hundred years at best? What's a century to a god?

If there is a heaven, I prefer to see it open for everyone, and upon arrival, your mind is suddenly enlightened and you are infused with true knowledge of good, evil, existance, etc. That'd pretty much kill most of our primary instincts if we could realize how futile domination, money and power are. In the end, we're all dead and buried. Better do something creative and useful of your life than waste it gaining money and power for your own personal desires.

 

[Nidhogg]

If that were the case, then everything would always exist, since matter is never destroyed. It's the order of matter that makes something, not that matter itself.

not quite. What I'm trying to say here it's that, we existed, in our thoughts, for the time we are alive and only at this time. What exists after is a part of us, but not "the full us".

Think on a table. It is made of wood. One beautifull day, someone smash, and only what rests is a pile of small pieces of wood. There's still a table there? of course not, there's only wood. but the table already was wood, organized in a way to look as a table. the wood is still there, but not organized as a table, so, the "material" that composed the table is still here, witch don't means the table is here.

Sorry if this isn't well writen.

 

[Anonymous]

I get the point though. Once we're dead, the different materials that composed us are still present, but what they composed isn't. It's like melting a candle, or as you said, burning a table. The bits and parts are still there, but not the whole.

 

[Dirtie]

This is one of the things that has always troubled me about the Church and its claims. Whilst God is supposed to be a loving, all-knowing father, it seems rather childish of him to impose us a set of rules (such as forced mass every sunday) to better "judge" our character.

Sounds more like a product of catholic dogma to me. Although I attend church, the Bible says "Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them". It is my belief that "church" (or mass) is not necessary for salvation, however it is possibly one of the products or "fruit" from having faith in and accepting God. Just like the Bible says: (something along the lines of) "Not by your works shall you be saved" - these works (or deeds) come naturally as a result of truly believing and accepting.

If he truly is all-knowing, I doubt He'll need to judge you for more than a nanosecond.

Man's existence is only 'existence' as such because God provided us with the ability to make choice. Choice defines our lives, character is secondary (it simply influences those decisions).

Now, that said, this is why I have such a hard time with hell and heaven. Considering I firmly believe everyone is equal, I have a hard time with the concept of Heaven/Hell and judgement. Seems a little harsh from a loving God to sentence his children to "eternal torture" for what...things they might've done over a hundred years at best? What's a century to a god?

See my post further up ^_^

 

[Lackluster]

We decompose and become a tree. Then a lumberjack comes and cuts us down, we get made into paper, then a printing company and prints the Bible on us. Thank you Dane Cook.

 

[Elijah von Bose]

I believe in Cosmic Theatre. =D

 

[Xilef]

Well, our bodies go into the ground and they become reincarnated as some other animal, because our rotting remains are absorbed by plants, which are eaten by other animals so we are reincarnated through there.
Our soul is sent to hell, because that what happens to your soul...It goes to hell. Then our last thoughts remain as a memory in other people or as a ghost if no-one wants to remember us.
^That's what my mind conjured up^

 

[Rhazdel]

^ummm....interesting. The only thing is, memories are not stored at the molecular level, but actually stored as electric impulses in the brain. The impulses and patterns are analyzed by the brain material and computed into actual thoughts, memories, senses, etc. When the body dies, these impulses are no longer being computed, and as the brain material starts to decompose, so, too, do these impulses leave the brain and are reabsorbed by other materials.

Without the same impulses to interpret (no material nearby will absorb all of the person's energy), the impulses (electrical energies) themselves become useless, and no longer do they function as memories.

Kind of like a computer. If you try and take the impulses (coding) and give it to your t.v., it won't interpret the data the same way. Also, if you give the data to another computer, fully capable of interpreting the same data, if not all the data is there (ie: files are corrupt), the other computer cannot interpret the files, either.

We are but shadows and dust.

 

[kaze950]

Its impossible to know, but I believe that we either go to heaven or hell. God doesn't really 'judge' us. Sin is what seperates us from God. If you accept Jesus as your savior, your sins are cleansed because of his sacrifice. The eternal punishment of Hell is bad, but the worse part of it is total seperation from God.

People shouldn't try to understand God. We can understand God's thoughts as much as an ant can understand ours.

Even if I wasn't christian or christianity didn't exist, I think I would still believe in an afterlife of some kind where the wicked who remain wicked are punished. Otherwise, there is no point to life. If we just turn to dust when we die and that's it, then there's not really a point to life.

Also, don't take this as my incentive for being a christian because it isn't (it's merely an advantage or something to think about), if Christianity is right, then those who believe in Jesus and accept him as their savior go to heaven and those who don't go to hell. If there isn't an afterlife, and we all just turn to dust when we die, then there isn't a difference. Our fate will be the same as Hitler.

 

[Pablogigantes]

I can't say what I believe, because I can't decide... I just simply didn't expect to see a RELIGION topic on this site... but what people believe is what they believe... I see very interesting things here, as well as good inspiration for a story, since I get inspired simply by walking...
To truly give people something to think about... The one who started this topic is brilliant, I gotta say (No, I don't kiss ass...)
I didn't EVER realize how opinionated some of the people in these forums are.
My belief stems from what I know: we are here now, and thats all that matters. Sure, it'd be nice to live forever, but then again... how long until forever ends? I'm sure, at some point in eternal life, someone would rather BE dead that live forever. I know I wouldn't want to see a war go down EVERY TIME it happens. I think immortality is kinda insane, but cool at the same time... and I got off topic again...
Point being: I will always expect the unexpected, and I will always be open to anything. I don't have a religion because I can't simply choose one, and thats how it is. I might be too open... I don't care. Anyone who disagrees with me basically disagrees with everyone, because I'm too damn opinionated, myself. I agree with everyone in one way or another. Thats why I try to help out as best as I can, and not disagree to help someone simply because I dislike them. I don't help out because I'm not good at things....

Theres my thoughts in a nutshell, I'm Agnostic...

 

[Anonymous]

Even if I wasn't christian or christianity didn't exist, I think I would still believe in an afterlife of some kind where the wicked who remain wicked are punished. Otherwise, there is no point to life. If we just turn to dust when we die and that's it, then there's not really a point to life.

That's the usual reply to most atheists. If we're right, then what's the point? You get a couple of years that might or not might have been worth living, and then you die. The end. It scares pretty much everybody, and is one of the main purpose of religion (in which people find reassurance and security...anyone remember the "The Church is a product of Man's insecurity!"? :p). I think its beside the point though. The fact that without an afterlife we'd be pretty much purpose-less doesn't necessarily justify the afterlife itself. Who can prove purpose is a necessary condition to life, or anything for that matter?

See, perhaps there is no point in life. Well, that's rather depressing, true, but I suppose most of us make do by trying to find one, or simply ignoring the thought all together...or we turn to religion, which will feed us the answers we long for. Anyway, to summarize...You're basing your theory that the afterlife is necessary to justify life in itself on the assumption that life NEEDS a purpose, which it might not.

 

[kaze950]

Well, as a christian I have to believe in an afterlife...I was just saying that even if I weren't christian, I'd probably still believe in some sort of afterlife. Maybe life doesn't have a purpose, but I believe that it does. I can't force other people to change what they think, I can only say what I believe. The church may be a product of man's insecurity, but is that a bad thing? Fear shouldn't be the reason for faith, as those who have faith shouldn't have fear. God says to come to him with the mind of a child. Saying that "you don't need God because I'm secure with my life and that life doesn't have to have a purpose" is a form of pride (I'm not talking about you, just saying in general). Those with faith should not have fear though.

But, like I said, I can only preach what I believe, not force it upon others. There are some parts of christianity I like and some parts I don't understand, but I still accept it all. The bible doesn't mention much about what heaven or hell is like, but I don't really understand how or why someone like Hitler and a good person who does good things, but doesn't believe in Jesus or acceps him as a savior, go to the same place. But, that's what faith is.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, if memory serves, Hitler believed he was doing the right thing. The "right" and the "wrong" are usually subject to one's perception, in which case its hard for us to judge (although it is somewhat easier in Hitler's case, but you get my point).

You mentionned though that you need to accept Jesus Christ as your savior in order to get in heaven. Why? If you were, generally, a good person and tried your best to brighten the world around, even if you missed the mass, even if you were never baptised, even if you do not believe God exists, why would he shun you? Because you do not believe in him? Isn't that somewhat arrogant?

 

[kaze950]

Because of original sin. You don't have to be baptized, but if you do not accept Jesus as your savior, than your sins aren't forgiven. Jesus was the perfect lamb. When Jesus died on the cross, he died for all the sins of the past, present, and future. But for those who don't accept him, the sacrifice means nothing for them. That is why God sent his son, or essentially himself, to die for us, so we can be with him in heaven. Sin cannot exist in heaven, so those who don't accept him and are in sin cannot be in heaven. Hell wasn't designed for humans.


And most people who do evil things thinks that what they're doing is right. Very few people kill just to kill. What matters is, whether what he was doing was right in the eyes of the world and for christians, whether what he was doing was right in the eyes of God. I'm sure for both groups, the answer is 'It wasn't right'.

 

[craybest]

I actually couldn't care less about what happens when we die, to me life is now, and the only realy purpose is to live it.
I find it arrogant that in order to be in heaven you have to believe in jesus, I mean, I could be a serial killer all my life and then just before dying, accept him as my savior and repent, and I would go to heaven, on the other hand, I could be a great person, trying to do my best to make things better in the world, but not believing in god or jesus, then I go to hell. that's ridiculous.
if that's the reasoning your god uses, then I'd rather be in hell away from him.

 

[kaze950]

We cannot understand what hell is like. Eternal seperation from God, and even eternity, are concepts we cannot comprehend. And repentance only counts if it is genuine. If a serial killer repents because he actually accepts Jesus as his savior, but doesn't truly repent or believe in Jesus in his heart, than it's not really repenting. So, if a serial killer truly is sorry for what he has done and truly accepts Jesus as his savior, then he will go to heaven. I find it hard to believe that a serial killer could truly repent though.

 

[Anonymous]

Why not? If a good man is refused heaven for lesser men (from a moral point of view), then I find it believable that a serial killer could truly repent.

But this is turning into a debate on religion, which I think already has a topic.