corporate @merica
Member
It's small offhand sentences like these that make US citizens believe that foreign countries are real.
Vegetarianism: A new path
- Thread starter Fallofthetyrant
- Start date
It's small offhand sentences like these that make US citizens believe that foreign countries are real.
corporate @merica;303682 said:
It's short sighted, not smart, and destructive sentences like these what makes the World want to repeat 9/11
I respect your decission Wyatt, but you shall see that cutting meat off your diet will be a bad thing in long term, now you feel "ok" but, if you had a sudden weight lost by cutting off something on your diet, that's a body indication of a unbalance...
Almost all anti-veggies here are talking about enjoying meat, and almost all pro-veggies talk about the cruel ways of slaughtering animals. This bothers me: don't you people actually read eachothers posts? (I just read the whole topic, for your information.)
I'm a vegetarian myself, I became one recently. I didn't really suffer from it (yet), actually. And I didn't really suddenly drop weight or anything. I did have a lack of energy when I started being a veggie, though. Now I am fine again, since I believe my body adapted to the new situation.
- I do not eat fish or any kind of meat. I hate the way humans treat cattle and other animals used for food consumption.
- I still eat dairy, because no animals need to be killed in order to produce dairy. I also still eat eggs, because they're very tasty. They're embryo's, yes, but they are already outside of the chicked who's produced it, and it can't be turned into a little chick anymore either.
- I do eat every kind of plant-food and meat-replacers like quorn (mushroom stuff). Plants do not feel pain when they are harvested, animals do. I hate pain, since I'm very sensitive for it, and I don't like the idea of hurting an animal while I hate suffering like that animal does.
- And no more gelatin (was hard when I saw the delicious chocolate tart of my sisters birthday, but I did have good applepie).
My reasons to become a veggie? Not because I don't like meat, it's because I don't like the way in which meat is produced. It might be natural to eat animals, but I think it's NOT natural to feed animals chemicals which make them fatter or to make them produce more milk or more eggs. This actually happens.
Example: A long time ago, when cattle was still wild, there where a kind of pigs that where not as fat as they are nowadays. They could survive easily, had a better life and weren't dominated by humans. Nowadays, because of breeding, chemicals and whatnot pigs became literally too fat. After several years a pig just can't stand on it's own legs anymore because it's legs are too weak. All because of human doing. And I that is NOT natural.
Eating meat isn't wrong, but it's the way of producing it that is. Animals have rights too.
Respect to anyone who read this far and actually thinks about it in a different way then "this is bullcrap" or "and there's another loser...".
EDIT: I forgot to mention that people eat far more meat than they need to nowadays.
I'm a vegetarian myself, I became one recently. I didn't really suffer from it (yet), actually. And I didn't really suddenly drop weight or anything. I did have a lack of energy when I started being a veggie, though. Now I am fine again, since I believe my body adapted to the new situation.
- I do not eat fish or any kind of meat. I hate the way humans treat cattle and other animals used for food consumption.
- I still eat dairy, because no animals need to be killed in order to produce dairy. I also still eat eggs, because they're very tasty. They're embryo's, yes, but they are already outside of the chicked who's produced it, and it can't be turned into a little chick anymore either.
- I do eat every kind of plant-food and meat-replacers like quorn (mushroom stuff). Plants do not feel pain when they are harvested, animals do. I hate pain, since I'm very sensitive for it, and I don't like the idea of hurting an animal while I hate suffering like that animal does.
- And no more gelatin (was hard when I saw the delicious chocolate tart of my sisters birthday, but I did have good applepie).
My reasons to become a veggie? Not because I don't like meat, it's because I don't like the way in which meat is produced. It might be natural to eat animals, but I think it's NOT natural to feed animals chemicals which make them fatter or to make them produce more milk or more eggs. This actually happens.
Example: A long time ago, when cattle was still wild, there where a kind of pigs that where not as fat as they are nowadays. They could survive easily, had a better life and weren't dominated by humans. Nowadays, because of breeding, chemicals and whatnot pigs became literally too fat. After several years a pig just can't stand on it's own legs anymore because it's legs are too weak. All because of human doing. And I that is NOT natural.
Eating meat isn't wrong, but it's the way of producing it that is. Animals have rights too.
Respect to anyone who read this far and actually thinks about it in a different way then "this is bullcrap" or "and there's another loser...".
EDIT: I forgot to mention that people eat far more meat than they need to nowadays.
corporate @merica
Member
Animals aren't humans. They are beasts which exist for the purpose of consumption. The way they are treated doesn't matter.
.....
Animals exist for us to eat them? While that may be true, (note the *may*), think about how you would like to be put through what livestock is put through.
It's my opinion that we should only be able to eat what we catch ourselves. No waste i.e. unsold meat, we'd be healthier (exercise), and there'd be less cruelty.
Animals exist for us to eat them? While that may be true, (note the *may*), think about how you would like to be put through what livestock is put through.
It's my opinion that we should only be able to eat what we catch ourselves. No waste i.e. unsold meat, we'd be healthier (exercise), and there'd be less cruelty.
aerendyll;304256 said:
You might think you did, but cutting it off will be bring you problems in long term issues. I wish I could find that dude's story of more than 15 years of vegetarianism. The poor guy has to be the most anemic person I've seen.
aerendyll;304256 said:
Let's think they do. The same ones as humans. Free movement. Free of act.Etc.
We set them free.
They Crap on the street
If they crap on the street, they'd have to clean it. Which they won't
If they don't clean it they're committing a crime
If they commit a crime they have to be judged
They don't present to the trial
They're fugitives
When they get caught they'll have committed much more crimes
They have to be sentenced to death.
We kill them
OR
We raise them
We kill them
We eat them
And my final addition:
Plants are alive too, they have rights! Only because humans haven't found a way too see if they communicate is not a reason to kill them!
Seriously. Survival of the strongest. We have every tool to survive by eating other animals and veggetables. We do it? Yes. We over do it? Who cares, we're still rockin'
PINEDAXP, not every single person who becomes vegetarianism is doomed to an unhealthy life with long term effects and whatever else you've been talking about. True, many vegetarians, particularly teenagers, don't plan out their diet well, and as result, have a decline in health -- which is probably what you're thinking of. However, it is possible to regain the nutrients lost from meat from other food, and a vegetarian who eats well can be just as healthy -- if not healthier -- than a non-vegetarian.
Danton Lavergne
Member
PINEDAXP;304500 said:
Being vegetarian means not eating meat, being vegan mean not eating any dairy or meat products. So if you're vegetarian, what's missing? You got your calcium from milk, yoghurt, whatever. If you're going to say protein; there's so many alternatives to this, it's not even funny. There's a large selection of fake meat on the market all containing tofu which infact has more protein than meant. To add on to what I just said, 75% of the vegetarian population take protein drink mixes and shakes.
Be knowledgeable before you start assuming things ~
Serenade;304528 said:
PINEDAXP said noting about calcium or protein deficiency. Look at the bolded word below:
PINEDAXP;304500 said:
Anaemia: Deficiency of RBCs and/or hemoglobin. Iron is a major component of of hemoglobin, and where do you get most of your iron? Red meat. Although you may get it from vegetables, iron is absorbed more easily from red meats.
I had anaemia when I was about 6, when I was eating meat. Now that I don't eat meat I've never had anaemia. So...
Anyway, there are many diets out there to Vegetarians, some healthy some unhealthy, just the same as there are for meat eaters.
Fer example. A veggie could eat chips all day long. Still Vegetarian, but still unhealthy.
They could also on the other hand eat healthy meals. Lasagne anyone? Chilli? Shephards pie for us Brits? Just use veggie mince, tastes better than the real stuff and doesn't have the horrible thought of being a cow shoved in a mincer.
You don't just get protein from meat, there's lots of things you get it from. Just like you don't just get omega 3 from fish.
Anyway, there are many diets out there to Vegetarians, some healthy some unhealthy, just the same as there are for meat eaters.
Fer example. A veggie could eat chips all day long. Still Vegetarian, but still unhealthy.
They could also on the other hand eat healthy meals. Lasagne anyone? Chilli? Shephards pie for us Brits? Just use veggie mince, tastes better than the real stuff and doesn't have the horrible thought of being a cow shoved in a mincer.
You don't just get protein from meat, there's lots of things you get it from. Just like you don't just get omega 3 from fish.
Wyatt;304810 said:
You can be perfectly healthy and eat meat, I'd daresay it's easier than being healthy and eating vegetables just because it's slightly greater variety. If you know what you're eating, you know what not to eat, and what's doing what for you, something being stripped from the crushed bones of a cow has no difference in that sense.
Now, I respect vegetarians... Well, some of them. A friend of mine refuses to eat red meat. Because it doesn't taste good. She laughs at videos of cows being thrown in grinders. I also know the kind of vegetarian that eats vegetables to protest, and doing the vegan thing and doing that is fine. Being a 'vegetarian' that eats dairy products and chicken though for the protest is retarded though, you have none of my respect.
Oh and about the grinder video... The cow is dead. It's moving because it's IN A FUCKING GRINDER AND THINGS MOVE WHEN THEY'RE IN GRINDERS. The other videos are probably plenty real but that one is not. Oh speaking of animal cruelty, it's not all just so we can eat you know. There's a relatively widespread gif image of a pig having its head chainsawed off while it squirms uncontrollably on the ground. I'm pretty sure they didn't cook it after that.
EDIT: oh also I forgot this part, cruelty to animals makes me appreciate my meal more. If I could kick a fallen cow in the face until its skull was scattered to the hills, and then eat it, I would, and it would be delicious.
Oh and vegetarian food is pretty good too, Boca burgers suck, but vegetarian sandwiches are delicious, and I love tofu.
Fallofthetyrant":3vzi0i55 said:
You actually believe that load of BS, which you most likely plagiarized from some animal rights website?
Humans *are* meat-eaters, and can in fact, survive as pure carnivores if necessary or desired.
Looks like someone needs to take remedial mathematics. The small intestine is approximately 13-23 feet long (Wikipedia). Most humans are from 5 to 6 ft tall. To the correct number of significant figures, that would make human intestines 2 to 5 times the body length.
No it doesn't. A look inside almost any chemistry textbook shows that human stomach acid pH ranges from 1 to 2, which is about the same as that of carnivores.
pH above 7 is alkaline. pH below 7 is acidic. Human saliva ranges from 6.5 to 7.4 (Wikipedia), which means it is variable, indicating indicating a more omnivorous design.
Actually, human bowels have a smooth surface(Wikipedia).
I eat almost no fiber, but I don't have any bowel trouble.
Cholesterol and animal fat actually isn't bad for you. It would take too long to explain here, so I will just link to a well researched and sourced school paper I wrote on the subject.
Nutritional Science at its Worst - How the Establishment Brought Today's Health Crisis upon our Nation
We do have sharp front teeth. As for claws, we don't need them, but we do have opposable thumbs, with which we can hold a weapon such as a stone, spear, knife, bow-and-arrow, or firearm.
In closing, I am probably the most carnivorous person in my family, and I get sick the least often, and the least severely. Each time I get a health checkup, my doctor says I am in excellent health.
cataclysm916
Member
Fallofthetyrant":1ji5tw96 said:
You're generalizing. And leaving out key points within your arguments.
For example, the claws and teeth aspect: Yes. Humans have molars, much like herbivores. However, humans also have canines. Therefore, human teeth also have carnivoristic characteristics.
In terms of saliva, that of humans is not 100% alkaline - acidity is not a binary measurement, and can not be deemed "Herbivorous" or "Carnivorous".
Human stomach composition is similar to that of carnivores as well... I am not sure where you are getting your facts, but they are very off-target...
Furthermore, humans have something that very few species have to their advantage - the ability to cognitively grasp the concept of tool creation and use. This enables us to use tools (primitive examples are spears, contemporaries are guns) to aid us in the killing of prey. This behavior can also be found in gorillas and chimpanzees.
You seem to believe that humans are "meant" to be herbivorous, when they are clearly not. Your arguments merely point out that humans are omnivorous, when they are balanced by the rest of the facts.
I do not mind vegetarians, nor do I mind the concept itself (I have tried for my own reasons - mostly the treatment of animals involved... but I am far too fond of steaks, burgers, and the like...) - but to assert that they are "meant" to be vegetarians without valid evidence is a touch too far.
Dopples":4wrqvq2v said:
I've had a vegan diet (I don't call myself vegan because I wear leather and generally don't participate in the activist vegan culture) for going on 7 years and I'm more healthy than the vast majority of Americans by a large margin, according to my doctor and my health reports, despite getting very little exercise and doing very little beyond the obvious to maintain a balanced diet. Also, fyi, the only major source of iodine is in seafood, which the majority of people not living in coastal areas do not consume enough of to meet their daily iodine requirement. Thankfully, it is provided as a supplement to most table salts ("iodized table salt").
On to proteins, the amino acids which your body breaks protein down into in order to make the proteins it actually uses are all found in plants or else produced by the body. Out of I believe 21 essential amino acids, 9 are not found in plant products and those same 9 are synthesized by the human body. The American Heart Association as well as many other medical boards and foundations consider many plant sources of protein preferable to animal sources for a variety of reasons, and in any case recommend limiting the consumption of animal protein to around 6 grams per day, a fraction of the amount consumed by the average person in a wealthy western country.
Cholesterol: nobody requires dietary cholesterol. Your body is perfectly capable of producing all the cholesterol it needs from fats. Dietary cholesterol eases the burden of production, thereby leaving behind more fat for your body to do other things with, and of course most of us I'm sure can do with some more fat, right? Any cholesterol above and beyond your basic need, which is relatively low compared to the amount the average westerner consumes, contributes to a reduction in overall health in a variety of ways.
As a matter of fact the one and only nutrient not found in plants and not synthesized by the body is vitamin B12. It is not produced by animals of any kind either, it's actually produced in common soil bacteria. Besides in dirt, it's found most in ruminant animals due to the amount of soil they consume in their diets, so your average person gets a lot of B12 by eating beef, horse meat, etc. The body is extremely efficient in reusing B12, and a deficiency will not become apparent for as many as 10 years but is reparable in a short amount of time through supplements. Fun fact: Red Bull contains a large dose of B12, as it's believed to asist in neural functioning.
In general, every study conducted on the subject that I am aware of shows that vegetarians and vegans are typically vastly more healthy than the average person. They have much lower risk of various forms of cancer, diabetes, heart disease and a variety of other common ailments, healthier immune systems and a lower rate of sickness. Part of this is probably due to the fact that vegetarians in general get more exercise and time outdoors. Despite this, most respected health organizations don't recommend a vegetarian diet but rather a balanced diet that includes a small amount of animal product, which if it weren't for the other variety of concerns I have with the meat industry I would happily adhere to.
As far as cost spending on supplements, I take the same multivitamin most of you probably take at the horrendous cost of about 10 dollars for a year supply.
Sorry if this is a repeat of anything else in the thread, didn't get past the first page.
Edit: Oh also lest I have anyone fire off at me, I don't have any problem with meat eaters or people eating meat. Matter of fact my dad is a butcher (no, that didn't have anything to do with it). I do however have a problem with people being misinformed/willfully ignorant in order to justify their own dietary choices. The human being is a highly adaptable and wonderfully flexible organism. It can function on a variety of different diets and in a variety of different environments, more so than any other creature on earth. The important part is to find a healthy balance, something that unfortunately your average "I'm a carnivore, rawr" refuses to do, and thereby chooses to place a huge (pun intended) burden on society in exchange for their ignorant behavior.
Fallofthetyrant":3hts3gfc said:
I went to PlagiarismChecker.com and found that those so called "facts" ARE plagiarized! http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/0 ... bivores-2/
Arguing about whether or not we were "meant" to be herbivorous or not is pretty silly. Nature doesn't have intent, just results, and an omnivore is defined as an animal that eats both plants and animals. Humans eat meat. Humans eat plants. Therefore we are omnivorous. It wouldn't matter if our intestines measured six inches or six miles.
That being said, I think it's pretty sucky to make an animal suffer for my food, so I prefer to buy local meat/eggs/dairy. I live in a rural area, and I can see the animals grazing when I drive to school and work. It's nice to know that they're living decently, and not in factory farms. Plus it supports the local economy.
That being said, I think it's pretty sucky to make an animal suffer for my food, so I prefer to buy local meat/eggs/dairy. I live in a rural area, and I can see the animals grazing when I drive to school and work. It's nice to know that they're living decently, and not in factory farms. Plus it supports the local economy.