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The Mirror Lied

The Mirror Lied

mawk

Sponsor

For the record, the God comment was actually referring to the fact that people seem afraid to give you anything but praise.

For all the rest, I think it's clear that there's nothing left to argue about. I still assert that this game would have been leagues better if you had taken the time to unite the various elements behind an underlying plot. In my mind, the purpose of a video game is to deliver a certain experience to the player. Call it a lazy sentiment, call me a slovenly by-product of this day and age, but the same sort of thing is generally expected from most books, and indeed, other forms of media. Although an "open story" that gives the player some blank space to trot his or her mind around in is an interesting concept, I can't testify that it works very well in practice -- for me, the experience amounted to a bunch of dashed expectations.

But then, I guess you gotta play to your chosen audience. I don't think these guys will have much to complain about, whatever you do, so have fun.

Please don't think my reasons for hating fanboys are so petty as an ideological difference. My qualm with them is that they fail to think about anything they say -- they mindlessly dole out compliments because that's what everyone else is doing or because they're merely impressed with your character. It soured my mood a little further when I raised a series of decent points (I can't really speak for the quality of my own arguments, now can I?) and Necrile immediately discredited it on the basis that you are Matreiya Buddha.

To be fair, I've also heard a respectable amount of good, well-thought-out, non-fanboyish praise in this thread. You guys I've got no problem with, it's the fanboys that make me want to throw a series of TVs at a concrete wall.

Egh, do people have to post long rebuttals while I'm at work tooling my own? Eh, I think this addresses Kemuri's post well enough anyway.

P.S. It's dumb to expect stories in our songs nowadays. Most songwriters just phone it in by saying exactly what their demographic wants and expects instead of saying anything significant. As an analogy for video games, it doesn't exactly work -- people nowadays just want a pretty tune. However, I still heavily dislike music which clearly hasn't taken any effort in the writing, if that's what you mean.

There's a comparison in there somewhere.
 
Oh, just so you guys know, such shameless fanboyism as was exhibited in this thread(which is not the only instance of such behavior) is now against the rules. That is to say, you are still free to proclaim your love of these works 'til your lungs explode, but any attempts to discredit the criticisms, and opinions of people, merely because you find the act of criticizing this thing is tantamount to spitting obscenities into the very face of God will be responded to with a firm slap on the wrist(not a full infraction, mind you).

Oh, and Reives, the game was good, and the atmosphere was ace, but the ending felt like a real cop-out, and your attitude stinks. But that's just one man's opinion.  :thumb:
 
I don't think this game can have an explanation though, without seeming silly. I don't think there is any plausible explanation for a girl without a face, putting fires out by sleeping, strange phone calls, and "birdie". To be honest, if this were anything but a short and free game, I wouldn't like it. However, it is something different and while its not the best thing to ever come out of the world, its a unique game that I happened to enjoy.
 
kaze950 I don't think you quite understand what people mean when they say they were expecting from an explanation of the game's events. :x
 
@Chimmy
Again, I understand where you are coming from. And I expected responses from your side, hence why I put the disclaimer at the top of the first post before I did anything else - But I suppose I didn't expect such a strong, and rather personal one. I fully understand your actual criticism on the actual game; in fact, for the past two years I've been working on something that is so story heavy it explains everything to the point of being boring on texts. But I consciously decided to take a break from that this time for the opposite extreme, intentionally. Rock and roll was just noise some decades back, right?

For the record, the God comment was actually referring to the fact that people seem afraid to give you anything but praise.
I've always found it funny how people think that, though. I am probably the least person to be afraid of.

I do not flame or leave bare harsh comments either I am in good relations with someone or not, unlike many around here. I am not a mod or admin, so sucking up to me gains no candy. In fact, before my project, I was nothing. Don't get me wrong; I acknowledge that has naysayers to many aspects of it, and I listen attentively to try to fix them whenever brought up. If there are somehow any notable respect for me, then there seems to be a circular logic going on to conform to sucking up to me attentively. Anyway, as I've consistently insisted - For the love of Reives (hah-hah get it get it? hah? hah? oh well), don't do it. But anyway, this is going way off-topic.

Who knew that a 4-day's-work of a vacation project could stir up this much fuss, eh?

Oh, speaking of which. . .


HAY YOU! Wanna know what all dis controversy is aboot?!?! Download it and find out!! *yard signs yard signs*

That's right.
That. Just. Happened.
 

mawk

Sponsor

Once you attain a certain level of accomplishment, or people start to think that liking you would be a popular decision, you gain a measure of toadies. It's inevitable. Look at Lumi!
 
kaze950 I don't think you quite understand what people mean when they say they were expecting from an explanation of the game's events. :x

Maybe I didn't.

Anyways, I'm not trying to "suck up" to the game creator or anything, just giving my honest opinion.
 
kaze950":14u7np2f said:
kaze950 I don't think you quite understand what people mean when they say they were expecting from an explanation of the game's events. :x

Maybe I didn't.

Anyways, I'm not trying to "suck up" to the game creator or anything, just giving my honest opinion.

Nobody said you were. :|
 
Anyway, this is getting played out. I'll just crack open my egg shell and say that this:
every single person who plays this game will get something different out of it. There is no universal "answer" even if that's what you intended. The games' ambiguity forces the player to draw from their own experiences. This will make an amazing game for some, and  leave many others scratching their heads wondering what the heck just happened.
is what I intended; which should be obvious by now. I believe that a story properly explained could not reach that effect; and that for a mini side project, an experimental structure could be quite interesting. But hey, that's just one man's opinion that happened to contradict with another's. Things happen, so it would be best to agree to disagree at times. I acknowledged that some will not find this tasteful, and as stated, I am fine with that, so there is no problem here.

P.S. I wasn't sure if my PM to you sent, Lummy. I think I might have had a page blank-out error.
 
Hi Reives,

I played through the game and then had George try it out (we wanted to see if he could find a different ending or something).  Overall, I think you did an excellent job with the atmosphere.  The house was mapped well, the cosmetic lighting was nicely done, and the examination elements reminded me a bit of a less involved (and far more creepy) Maniac Mansion.  I also enjoyed the music and thought it was cued properly.  All these factors contributed to a very suspenseful, creepy, and edge-of-my-seat experience. 

My views on the controversial stuff: Many of these mystery exploration type games can be divided into two categories.  The first being one that is built upon a well developed backstory that the player can ultimately figure out.  The second utilizes a certain level of ambiguity that encourages the player to formulate their own interpretations.  Both categories can produce a good and meaningful gameplay experience, and I have no preference for one over the other.

Many people do however have qualms with games that ultimately fall into the second category that "fake the player out," if you will, in order to create better atmosphere.  I have no problem with the majority of the events in your game (the concept of a "birdie", the phone calls, the climbing a ladder and flying away)... all those events allow for open ended ideas and explanations on behalf of the player.  I do however have a problem with the details that seriously hint at a concrete explanation (for example, the specific times and dates listed on the walls).  There is no "open interpretation" to all those very specific dates listed on the wall.  One date perhaps, but not 8 of them.  These are the kind of details that are going to make players think (and no doubt look forward to) an explanation at the end (I know I did, as did George).  And this is probably why players feel as though the ending was disappointing (or a cop out).  It's not because artistic and open-ended games are bad... it's because borrowing the added suspense of cryptic details that elude to a fantastic explanation, and then not giving that explanation can often disappoint. 

But that being said, I think the game itself was a wonderful experiment and testament to the fact that you know how to utilize elements like music, art, and direction in order to create a particular atmosphere.  It's also a great way to show another one of the many types of games that can be created with rpg maker.  In the future, I'd just try to avoid details that seriously elude to something that's not there if you're going to leave things up to interpretation in the end; it'll save you a lot of trouble with folks that are frustrated with the lack of conclusion :)

   
 

CERU

Member

Omg, I've only just started and its already so amazing.

Even the title screen is amazing.

Omg. o_o;

Edit: The visuals, the atmosphere, and the sound in this game were all superb. I loved the puzzles and the way the game operated.

However, I do not feel like after playing it that the game had a point. I thought the bird was going to be symbolic or something, but I'm not sure what you were doing with it and I'm confused.

I still like it though.
 
Music lyrics might have many interpretations, but they still make sense, they have multiple simillar situations they can adapt to. what is most annoying about this is that you just invented a "birdie" which is nothing and made meaningless incoherent sentences like "birdie landed over water""come here, birdie""too late""biride flew away". there is many crazy art around the world. but this makes no sense at all, it doesn't have a meaning behind it. might as well make a game with random programming if you want to run away from the rules of games like that. you can hide a meaning, even if it has multiple interpretations, behind a very artistic-like game, but not in that totally incoherent way that talks about a birdie that is nothing. it's a birdie, but it could be an elephant, an icecream paper or a efkjekuufk, that it would be the same. you might as well have put snow white in yellow trousers walking around the bathroom and say it's up to the player's interpretation. please don't follow the footsteps of some crazy artists who paint a blue spot and earn tons of money for that. it's simply ridiculous. and i don't want to be rude, just as everyone seems and doesn't want to seem in big comments. sorry this is all cramped up (i think "cramped up" is the expression, rite?)(i'm just 2 lazy to organize this text again.)

oh and i wanna add that, despite agreeing with chimmy ray, if anyone who wasn't a moderator had written exactly what he did, that person would be now facing against against lots of other members and maybe have been warned for some reason.

and i'm not sure people would understand the author's opinion so well if he wasn't who he was...
 
The fact that I've sat here for a half hour trying to construct a post of criticism about the game says probably more than what I could have wrote. I didn't really think too deeply about the game until after I read some of the posts here. I thought it was a quirky game when I first played it and the ending didn't make a lick of sense. I still think that but so far I've found people's reactions to the game more interesting than the game itself. I think you've constructed something real great here Reives whether you knew it at the time or not.
 
Thanks, and thanks for playing and the feedback guys. c:

Anyhow, the "no point" aspect has been over-debated by now.

Quoting from first post (these existed ever since the beginning, speaking of which);
Reives":2scpfpcc said:
I will say upfront that some people will not like this.
Reives":2scpfpcc said:
You may ask by the end of this, "Did this have a point?" or "What just happened?" or "Why did you waste 20 minutes of my life?"; I have nothing to answer to that.
And considering that at the ending credits, there was no "Story by:".

This was a short, vacational and experimental project made in 4 days - I believe that it is rather overkill to ramble on about whether it makes or does not make sense story-wise, given the points I just stated above. Some got some enjoyment out of its awkwardness, and some didn't - As expected and warned in the disclaimers.

My apologies that my replies aren't as elaborate anymore; it's getting a little tiring, heheh. To those who have a problem with this, I recommend simply taking it as the experiment that it is.

Being someone who has a primitive bias toward heavy story to the point that the main project is a space-bar press-'n-doze fest, I certainly understand where you are coming from, hence included the disclaimers. :smile:

I have to admit, though, that this controversy was actually rather interesting, be it a headache or not. Thanks for participating to all, heh.

P.S. Point taken, miss matcha. Many thanks for the help.
 

mawk

Sponsor

oh and i wanna add that, despite agreeing with chimmy ray, if anyone who wasn't a moderator had written exactly what he did, that person would be now facing against against lots of other members and maybe have been warned for some reason.

I sort of wish that had happened so that I could really tear into some people. It's tough to get angry at Reives. >:x

I don't think I've behaved in any fashion that would net anyone a warn, though. I don't think we're so corrupt that

A. people can be warned for differences of opinion
or
B. mods are exempt from punishment if they act like dicks. It might seem like we can just do whatever we want sometimes, but trust me, even the admins get bawled out sometimes. :P

Besides, Johnny, I think you're putting things in more dicky a tone than I ever did. I'll agree with Reives here and admit that the plot-lovers have expressed themselves quite thoroughly, and unless you're bringing something new to the table you might as well not attend the banquet at all.

By the way, Reives, I just realized you never answered my question. The Strange Liquid and the micropscope -- does  that event have any effect on the game, or was it just another atmospheric touch? I think it was really a fantastic idea to have some cells under a microscope which divide and eventually escape (the possibilities! Oh, man, I am just loving the possibilities this game had,) but am I right in thinking it was just a little extra to pass the time -- like the Quintessence reference at the piano?
 
Mm, I guess at this point I'll have to crack open from my originally planned muteness a bit. About the microscope and the liquid, etc. - The origin of those are one of my originally intended possible molds; something to do with chemical weaponry or the like, in association with delusion. But that was not of much impact to the construction of the rest of the set as a metaphorical set; watering the plant that spikes through the window, creating the only way out was one of them, and the birdy symbolizing freedom and the like. On that aspect, I have to admit that Kemuri's interpretation was very similar, if not better conjured than the things I had in mind.

Oh, and I suppose that it was a bit of a time passer as well by default. And hah at the piano reference, I didn't know you'd recognize.
 

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