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I played it, and although I enjoyed it in the end (due to it being a bug-free, well mapped production) it didn't scare me at all. I think being plopped in your bedroom with no real direction was a big reason for this, the whole thing was too vague to be scary; I think some of the creepiest moments can be achieved while being vague but I don't think you quite got there. I did like how you received obscure little hints over the phone, but once again despite being fun and useful I did not find them creepy.
-because I understand that the look of it might seem like one at first. c: Glad it was of some entertainment.
Thanks for playing guys. :smile:
And ah, thank you for the suggestions on the window thingy - I tried the item script trick, but when I cancel it the main menu shows. That's a nice trick though, I'll have some use for it in the future. This was rushed overall indeed, and by the end I just got so tired of it, heheh.
After I am no longer sick of the title theme, I'll probably release a longer version as resource.
I realised this after posting. Oops! I guess I got confused after reading all the replies, haha. So yeah, I saw it as more obscure than creepy, as most other players seemed to.
I probably shouldn't have hid it in spoilers anyhow, heheh.
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Oh, just a reminder: There is a little glitch at the moment where when you are at the center of the stairs at one point, you cannot step left deeper into the stairs - as that will get ya stuck. Will update the link with a fixed version soon, sorry about that!
I gotta say that this may be the most intriguingly addictive RMXP I've ever played. I played through all of the game and although I didn't like going back and forth trying to figure out what to do, I couldn't stop playing.
As for the plot, I don't have anything to say to anything related to that. However, I would like to note that something in the ending credits - or there lack of, and in replacement of. If you know what I am referring to.
My immediate question here is why? You made the game yourself, and you have nothing to say about the plot? I have a tough time believing this.
The problem I have with this game is that it piles up the "WTF" moments to no end. Generally, it's a sign of good writing when an author can drop the reader straight into an existing situation and slowly reveal the details. It's also a very good way to hold a reader's interest.
However, while you had the first part down to a T, and here I must admit that I was held more or less in thrall the entire time despite some sketchy pacing, you completely failed to make good on the second part.
In the end, what I took away from the experience is that a girl without a face had made an arrangement with another tenant in her house (which is magical, highly morphic, and has no exits) to destroy a destructive force which is seemingly very familiar with her.
This makes an excellent starting point for a story, but as "big reveals" go it's borderline pathetic.
The ending left me completely unsatisfied. You built up such a good series of questions, and I was looking forward to their resolution at some point. However, the resolution never came, and this leads me to believe that this game simply lacks any depth beyond what the player immediately sees. I've often thought that you sometimes enjoy seeming deep for the sake of seeming deep, and this game has done nothing but strengthen that.
This thread and your replies in it don't help, either -- they're incredibly evasive and useless and sound more than a little bit patronizing from my end. Being intentionally vague is an excellent literary tool as I previously stated, but only provided it comes to an end eventually! From what I gather you're in an ivory tower pulling clouds together and twisting them into interesting shapes so that we can gawk and wonder at whatever hidden meanings aren't there.
And now I'm rambling incoherently. Excellent.
For the record, I found this game thoroughly enjoyable until the ending. However, I can see now that it's more than just a little bit pretentious. Tell me, is there actually any reason behind the events of the game, or did you just think that it would be fun to make a game that seems really artistic and thoughtful?
Please give me some sort of a response here. "Thanks for your direct question kid I can't tell you about it though for mysterious and introspective reasons" won't cut it here, I'm afraid.
P.S. Was there any point to the Strange Liquid and microscope? Did the cells just up and decide they didn't want to be a bother, so they left?
I feel dumb cause I took so long trying to figure out what to do. I went around and watered all the decorative plants which did nothing. And did a bunch of other stuff a million times over expecting a different result... and I could never get to the phone on time.
The growing plant was my favorite part. I kept watering it to see how high I could get it. Then in the end I was like "oh! so thats what that meant".
@Chimmy:
Hm? My apologies if you took offense in my response, it is unintentional.
I believe you are missing the point of this, and instead might be a little stressed into thinking that I am pretending to be so deep and mysterious when there was not much technical work done on my part to deserve it.
I understand where you are coming from. What kind of a story is this, giving no answers or what so ever?
The answer is: There never was a story that I fed to the player in this game. I've never claimed how deep the "story" is, or that a solid set story existed to be fed to the player at all.
In fact, in the ending credit, there was no"Story by" credit - it was "Concept by".
Sure, wrapping up all the loose end would make everything suddenly make sense and get it a "comprehensive" stamp. But that completely defeats the point of this project. This isn't a typical story-driven RPG for that matter.
And this is exactly why I have been evasive of actual story contents and explanation to this, as I stated in the very first post - no comment. In fact, I would have liked to not say anything in the first post at all, but the rules prevents me from that.
Reives":2yl0t87m said:
I will say upfront that some people will not like this.
Not because of things like how certain aspect needs mending (which many aspects do, don't get me wrong), but because the structure of this is without a skeleton.
This isn't a typical game. I am not claiming it to be, and nor am I claiming how "deep" a story it is. In fact, this 4-days experiment is the opposite of a comprehensive story-telling project that I need a break for.
It is what you think it is. If you want to look at it from a developer-ego perspective, I am holding none, so relax.
If you believe there was no point to this, then there was no point.
If you believe that it made sense in a way, then it did.
If you believe that it is creepy, then it is.
This is its point. This is the opposite of a "story-fed" game. I understand that it may be hard to accept unconfined spaces and keep ego out of enjoyment, but I honestly see no reason why you are suddenly so fired up over it.
What this is, is a setting for you to fill in. That is its beauty (if any), and that is its ugly.
I don't know. There needed to be a story. If you at least had some underlying tones it would have made sense. I thought you did, but...I guess not. :crazy:
There was a lot of room for it within all of those random lines and dates scattered about the game.
I digress, it was an amazing 15 minutes, but a story would have just wrapped it all together, not these (pardon my blunt-ness) half-assed random quips everywhere.
Again, that completely defeats the point of this; I am having trouble conveying that. What you hate about this is what makes this different - Not necessarily in a good way to anyone as you proved and I concurred; but different.
Edit:
Hm, okay.
How I approached making this, was that I set out a few possible plot lines to create the scenario upon. From that point, traces of each are erased and details are lost. I admit that Kemuri said was actually quite close to one of my premises.
Actually, I believe the point here is that in a standard RPG or game for that matter you are presented with a story that you will watch at intervals after playing through stages of gameplay.
Something that games do not utilize despite the medium being interactive is the creation of a narrative from the player himself. The difference between a film or book and a game is that the user is directly involved and therefore can in some fashion shape the story themselves.
Whether or not this was Reives intentions is not for me to address, suffice to say that making a game that allows the player to determine a story on their own is rarely used and perhaps why people can't comprehend this. It isn't as if the author didn't address this in the post clearly stating that people may not like / ask for their 20 minutes back etc.
...and as proven, it seems some people have become frustrated by this whilst others have developed their own stories. I don't feel that an author should be obliged to convey what they meant in something.
All in all though... this was supposed to be a short and happy diversion. I doubt an extensive amount of planning did go into it.
Necrile, I think hard serious crit is more than well-warranted here, given the number of people who simply posted gushingly positive one-liners and left thinking they had done good. "Leave him alone" is an awful plea to make in a board designed to help game makers improve through honest criticism.
I understand Reives has attained godlike status at this point. Still, he is capable of making mistakes. Even more capable, I would say, than most, given the unanimous support he's been receiving of late. It's up to us to point those things out.
In short, don't be a mindless fanboy and let the big kids play their hardball.
Reives":qshf0a77 said:
If you believe there was no point to this, then there was no point.
If you believe that it made sense in a way, then it did.
If you believe that it is creepy, then it is.
This is its point. This is the opposite of a "story-fed" game. I understand that it may be hard to accept unconfined spaces and keep ego out of enjoyment, but I honestly see no reason why you are suddenly so fired up over it.
What this is, is a setting for you to fill in. That is its beauty (if any), and that is its ugly.
This is a convoluted cop-out answer if ever I've heard one, and it does a nice job of fueling my earlier "pretentious" statement. The game is what it is, dude, and nothing you say will change that. Don't pretend that my opinions are entirely my responsibility just because you neglected to include rhyme or reason. Your game has not become some magical entity which lies outside the video game complex. You are still subject to the rules of literature and storytelling. If the point of this game is to be whatever i think it is, well -- no, let's be honest here. It's not. You put a lot of promising, suspenseful, and avant-garde material into a game without any idea why.
As I just edited my other post to say before realizing you had replied, I really wish you had taken the time and effort to give this game an actual story. It would have made the experience so much better if the player were allowed to slowly bring the state of affairs into focus.
Please. Stop trying to pretend that your game is a beautiful and unique flower because you left the plot as a blank slate. You're crying "artistic license" and I'm crying "it doesn't matter, the end result was disappointing."
P.S. I apologize for my tone. Bad logic and fanboys put me as close to an awful mood as I tend to get. :x
And to that, I have implied "I understand" multiple times. Stated in the disclaimer from the time it was posted, even. The words that come out of my posts are spoken by me, whilst others are not. Please put my relevant posts as your examples before accusing me of attitudes that I did not display.
*sigh*
I vacillated over whether or not I should reply to your post and continue this. I'll regret continuing this later.
The bottom line is, I appreciate your ideas, and I agree that any serious legit story-driven RPGs would be required to follow the code. But in my opinion, this structure is an experimental approach that provokes the imagination of the players, and I take no credit for what it leads them to, other than setting up the starting point.
That is fine that you feel that it is a plane without wings. And that is fine if you enjoy where something like this takes you. But either way, please do not take a clash of different opinions for an ignorance of criticism. I cannot help but feel that the false perception of how I "fancy myself a God" or something ludicrous as that played a role in the strong expressions.
A game is supposed to be enjoyable, right? What is "right" and "wrong" as far as structure goes, if you take enjoyment out of the formula? Is something wrong when it comes to an entertainment when some enjoy it? If some do and you do not, then perhaps that is not for you - But some do enjoy it, so what is so wrong? It just seems to me that it is rather silly to say that "you, you and you; do not enjoy this as you are because 1. 2. 3.". Doesn't that defeat the point?
Again, I am well aware that some do not enjoy this structure. That is fine, I am not saying that "u r wrong, this is teh best lolz". I am saying that let those who do, do. Those who do not, do not. The system works, as if there is no player, then the structure itself fails naturally.
Edit:
@Your edit: I suppose same goes here in response to your tone, heheh. But it seems to me that "fanism" plays a large, large role in your disapproval - I feel like that a lot too when I am in situations like that, to be honest. It is quite frustrating to see something that you feel is wrong being liked by some, it is only natural. Just remember that there are also a lot who doesn't like it just like you; the world balances out. c:
IMO, I thought it was great. As for the ending, the way I interpreted it was:
That everything was essentially a figment of the girl's imagination, and that by killing herself, the house - and "birdie" - disappeared from existence as well
But I suppose the point of this game was that there was no "true" story, and the story/plot/ending/whatever is left up to the user. The way I see it, this game isn't about presenting a story, but presenting a set of ideas and actions and allowing the individual to fill in the rest for him/herself.
Also, was it me, or did that 'simple map' picture change from time to time. I swear it did, but I don't know if I'm crazy or not.
Chimmy, I understand your position, and to a point I also agree with it. If the game had had a mind-blowing conclusive ending that explained everything, it would have evoked much more powerful emotions, instead of a "what...?" response. I'll admit I sat there for awhile after the credits rolled and tried to figure out some kind of definitive story, message, anything; and then concluded that there wasn't one and that the game was designed to pull from the player's experiences.
The game's design philosophy is much like how song lyrics can be interpreted in thousands of different ways, even something simple like a fortune cookie uses the same principles. It delivers an ambiguous message that can draw from what's emotionally powerful to the listener/reader/player.
The difference here is that we were expecting a plot. "This is a videogame, videogames have plot, this game must also then have a plot, and it's probably amazing because how the hell else could you tie all of these strange events together?" But we didn't get an amazing plot, we didn't even get a plot at all, and we feel cheated. If this had been a song, we wouldn't be sitting here crying foul because the song didn't have story structure.
...and also, I understand your fanboy complaints as well. No offense to anyone here, but many many people who play this game will like it and call it amazing simply because it feels like it had a deep message that only a genius like the author could understand. They'll assume it has a message even if they don't really understand it, but instead of admitting they "don't get" the non-existent message to themselves and peers, they'll give the game praise as if they're saying "See, I'm smart, I understand it!" They won't consider that the story is simply up for interpretation.
I'm probably going to regret saying that last paragraph, I really meant it with no offense. I'm not calling anyone stupid, and it doesn't mean everyone who likes the game is one of those people. However, if somebody does like the game, say more than "it was awesome!!1!" or "Reives you make the best games!" Tell us what was great about it. Hell, I myself think it's an excellent game. The suspense, concepts, mapping, and mood setting were all superb.
Heh, at the very least Reives, you've probably made the most controversial game in RM history =P . If this gets popular enough among the RM community it's going to cause more discussion and debating than any other RM game ever made, guaranteed.
