Teenage Pregnancy

[iceplosion]

Let them have sex and squirt out babies at 13 or 14.

All that means is their little ball and chains made of flesh will drag them down to the lower classes, leaving more room for middle-upper class people (like me) to get ahead.

Despite the American mantra of freedom and equality always chanted in everybody's face, the USA, like every other country, operates on a class system where the majority of the people must be in the lower classes so the higher-class minority can enjoy a good lifestyle.  So every retarded kid who decides not to use a condom, or get knocked up and keep it, is one less obstacle in my way to having a better life.  ;D

You sir appear to be rather unintelligent, it is unlikely you will succeed in life in the way that you believe you will. (although honestly it kinda sounds like you're jealous these guys are getting some and you aren't )
Not every country uses a class system (it's kind of sad you would think that just because your own country does) and the class a person is born into has no impact on their intelligence, the majority of teen preganacies are due to a lack of information being provided and a lack of sex education.
I'm a law student, my father is a judge and my mother was one of the highest paid interior designers in the country(she is 42 and semi-retired now) it's pretty fair to say I fall into the middle-upper class category, some of my best friends come from the working class and there are more than a few who are smarter than me (I have one friend who speaks six languages fluently) intelligence is the most important deciding factor in a persons lifestyle.
Oh and did I happen to mention that my parents were in their earlier twenties when they had me? yeah and they were teenagers when they had my older brother.
I'm pretty sure that proves your theory wrong.

 

[Venetia]

One instance of a triumph does not prove anything. That's conditional reasoning.

Spoiler: Conditional Reasoning

Someone says, "All bikers have one glass eye!" < too broad, no facts.

Someone else says, "No, I know atleast 40 bikers who don't have any glass eyes." < that's a decent argument, because it disproves the first poster's use of "all".

Someone else says, "It's true! I know a biker with a glass eye so it must be true!" < that's conditional reasoning and it's only a haphazard argument if you're *not* following it up with the idea that your one instance is a broad fact.

Secondly, iceplosion, don't call peoples' intelligence into question. It's not the proper way to pose an argument. It doesn't do anything but troll and make you come off as a prick, ultimately leading the discussion astray while the person you called unintelligent defends him/herself.

This is Ven, the Mod, not Ven, the debater.

 

[harbino]

Spoiler: original quote

Why?

Teenage pregnancy has SKYROCKETED in America. I think the lack of education is disgusting.

My personal opinion, (WITHOUT TURNING THIS INTO AN ABORTION DEBATE) is that if my daughter got pregnant as a teenager, she'd be going straight to the clinic. Why? Why should I have to take care of someone else's child if they too are still a child?

I understand that it is important to educate your child and keep a careful eye on things, but you can have the best relationship in the world with your kid and they will still be curious and I blame that on our shitty American society.

Sex is everywhere. YET Americans are sooo uptight about it. Teenagers are CURIOUS. They are NOT getting the proper education when it comes to sex. Sure, we know that when a penis enters a vagina and ejaculates, given the right condition, a baby is conceived. That's just a biological process. Other than that, sex is all hush-hush-hush. Taboo. TABOO IS EXCITING FOR TEENAGERS. Tell them straight up. It's not that cool, it's not worth destroying your life, and a baby's life over it. Give them free condoms at school, do whatever you have to. (Condoms are expensive now. I looked at some the other night. $6.00 for 3!!!)

Why aren't these kids learning what happens AFTER that orgasm? Why aren't they learning that something like 2% of women end up going to college and getting a decent life after having a child at 14?

YOU RUIN YOUR LIFE BY HAVING A KID WITHOUT A STABLE JOB AND A ROOF OVER YOUR HEAD.

I'm not saying that this happens to everyone. My mother had me when she was 19 and had a waitress job and my dad was a cook. They barely had enough to take care of me, but they did. Now my mother has her BA in Business and she makes 150k a year. My father never finished high-school but he builds kitcars and sells them, making around 90k a year on average.

When I was in high school HALF of the girls in my graduating class were pregnant and the year before that and the year before that also. My graduating class was 62 people, 30 being girls and 15 being pregnant.

I went to a poor backwards school (because even though WE weren't poor the school was because it was all rural around it), but I know it happens everywhere because the girls I worked with were from other schools with a graduating class of 2,000 and most of them were pregnant too!

I remember talking to these girls about sex. All the conversations were the same.

"Oh, so you have sex. Do you use condoms?"
"I don't like them." or "I'm allergic."
"How about the pill?"
"The pill makes me sick." EVERY LAST ONE OF THESE PEOPLE SAID THIS. Know what else makes you sick, MORNING SICKNESS.

As a girl, I know that birth control doesn't make you feel the greatest, but there are different kinds. I am stuck having to take a higher dose but if I don't my cysts will explode and I will get very sick.

Birth control has added benefits for girls also. Most women don't get any more pimples and their periods are regulated. I think the benefits outweigh the risk entirely.

A girl in class once announced that she was pregnant by telling the teacher that she could have her baby because she didn't want it and the teacher couldn't have kids.

I don't believe in adoption. I have worked with foster kids and some of them turned out great, but most of them were misguided, abused, and had lived in several different homes. IF YOU CAN'T TAKE CARE OF IT DON'T HAVE IT!

Sure it isn't the baby's fault that you got pregnant, but should the baby have to suffer because of it? Why burden two people?

I didn't know about sex until 8th grade when they told me I had Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome. We never had a sex ed course. They still don't. My fiancee's little sister is 10 (long story) and they are teaching her about it in 5th grade. They should have to have some kind of refresher after that also. They may not really grasp the concept that young, but there was a girl in 6th grade I remember who got pregnant.

When I asked a girl if she was embarrassed to walk around as a pregnant teen she said yes. When the pregnant teenager at my old job talked about the free college, free food, free health care, free day care she COMPLAINED about the taxes being taken out of her check. Where do you think that money goes?

It's almost as if they're advocating it! I just don't understand.

Do we need better education or is it just ignorance? Why has it gone up so very high?

Obviously you haven't been to England, we are champions of Teenage Pregnancy.

 

[iceplosion]

Ven I know a lot more than forty people at my university from working class backgrounds, it's not conditional reasoning, my aim with pointing out my own situation was to prove that not every single person who has to deal with the teen pregnancy thing is a failure. Calling Dissonances intelligence into question was mostly an emotional response due to my aformementioned connection to what he said and it was of course improper, however the comment made by Dissonance appears to be that of child with a rather twisted view of the world for various reasons that I do not need to explain (and won't because that would be off topic)

My view on teen pregnancy: The majority of it can be stopped with proper education, both parents should take responsibility. It is not an indicator of class or intelligence. It does not prevent a person from being successful.

 

[Red Dawn]

I actually agree with Dissonance. Firstly, Ice,

although honestly it kinda sounds like you're jealous these guys are getting some and you aren't

that is moronic. It doesn't sound like that at all, you're just trying to be witty. But you're not.

Where I'm from it's like that as well, there's the 'poor' schools that get virtually no funding or support (because it's where all the dropout losers go), that have no computer labs or fancy science equipment. Because there are schools like this, good schools (like mine - go BHS!) get it all and so they can afford a lot. If the poor schools were getting more money and support, then we would get less. I don't know for sure about other countries (so I'll talk out of my ass), but they don't intend to have 'classes', but there are inevitably well-off people, and people who aren't so... well off ^^

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

Well it might make more room for the middle-upper class people like you.  But for middle-lower class people like me, it means higher taxes and a lot more things to pay.  Either that or children (and their babies) to go hungry, resort to prostitution, or slinging more cocaine by schools.  With nurseries.  Damn.  There just ain't a win for me, now is there :\

Oh and thanks for the "drop out loser" remark.
You know, because I went to one of those schools because me and my family couldn't afford anything else.  It was that or dig a bigger hole with our debt shovels to move.  Forget that my text book ended in 1970's, in 1998 mind you, just so your text book could be nice.  This way, you get to move on.

 

[___]

Spoiler: @Iceplosion

Not to agree with the other guy, but I have to contradict you here.  I'm sure you go to a full time, accredited law school but you probably know what the FYLSE is.  I know a guy who graduated from High School at 16, passed the FYLSE at 17 (youngest person I know of ever to do that).  Continued law school for 1 1/2 years.  Straight A's, outperformed most of the people in his class, despite them all being twice his age, attending a part time law school.  Most of them were businesspeople getting a legal education to supplement their own work, but the school had produced several successful lawyers in the past.  Then, a problem: ran out of money, couldn't pay tuition.  Now he works at blockbuster.

From your perspective, coming from the "upper-middle class" intelligence probably does seem like the most important factor in lifestyle.  Intelligence doesn't mean dick, my friend.  Some of the smartest people I know in terms of pure capacity to learn, that genuine spark of curiosity that marks an intelligent mind, are blue collar and make barely more than minimum wage.  No, the most important factor boils down to one thing: opportunity.  That is bought with cash, just like any other commodity.  There are a few people who really understand that as children and rise above in spite of their background, and there are a huge number of them who understand that and try their hardest, but fail anyway.  There are plenty of people who never did shit in their entire lives and pissed away whatever intelligence they had by the time they were 16 and still walk on water.  Most of them occupy the upper classes.  Look at Paris Hilton (grats on giving her what was coming to her finally, to her family).

The fact is, the overwhelming majority of people who are born into a family below a certain line are likely to stay in that class or fall into even worse situations, and the overwhelming majority of people who are born above that line will stay at their family's level of affluence or climb even higher.  That line gets higher and higher with every generation.  I heard a comedian crack a joke once that went something like this:
"If you're in need of money, you go and take out a loan.  The bank charges you money for this, so you actually instantly have less money than you did before.  If you have money in a savings account, they pay you just for having it!  You get charged for being poor, and payed for being rich."  It was funny when he put it, and of course that's the way economics work, but it underlines the basic nature of the situation.

Anyways, not to put you down my friend, I'm sure you worked your ass off to get into a law school, and you deserve to be there.  But please don't fool yourself into thinking you got there just because you're bright, or that anyone else from anywhere else could do that just as easily.  Be thankful for the fact that you were born into a life of great potential, and be proud of yourself for making the most of it.  Be respectful to your classmates who had to really struggle and sacrifice to get there in ways beyond just intellect, and will probably be mired in debt for the next 10 years of their professional lives in exchange for the privilege of joining you.

Edit:  I see from reading a few other posts that Iceplosion isn't from the U.S. so he probably doesn't know what the FYLSE is.  He can Google it

Anyways many posts here point out the fact that sex ed isn't as deficient as we would like to believe in most places, and that ignorance is rarely an excuse anymore.  Yet people seem to go out and do stupid things anyways.  What's the drive there?  I think it has a lot to do with our culture refusing to raise children with a sense of cause and effect, responsibility, and realistic points of view.  We prefer to raise them on fairy tales from the likes of Disney that teach them that no matter how many mistakes you make there's always a happy ending, always a silver lining.  Like it or not, every story you read, watch, or hear changes the way you think, if even just a little bit.  It's the way our brains are wired; we assimilate fiction in basically the same way we assimilate fact.  This is especially true in children; so when you let you kids spend all day watching Cinderella sequels and Spongebob Squarepants and sitcoms on network TV they're happily filing away ideas like "no matter what happens, life goes right back to normal in the next episode" and "when you make a huge mistake all you have to do to fix it is say sorry and everything will be alright." 

When these kids grow up these ideas are deeply ingrained in their psyche, and there's literally a little part of their mind that tells them "don't worry, you can get away with it this time, everything will be alright just like it always is."  That's what leads them to do insanely stupid crap with a sense of impunity, and to be shocked, panic and confused when something bad happens that should have been entirely predictable.  Whether it's having unprotected sex or consuming insane amounts of drugs (the bar of insanity being pretty low with some drugs) or texting while driving the attitude is always the same.  Then comes "Oh my God, what am I going to do?" when the pregnancy, STD, addiction, car accident, etc. happens and the subsequent downward spiral experienced by most of them is basically a result of massive cognitive dissonance as their unrealistic world view runs smack into the wall of consequence and inevitability. 

Of course those children who grow up in families where there really is a fairy godmother (a.k.a. daddy's big paycheck) further exacerbate the problem by providing an example to their peers that reinforces this backwards view of life, and they end up becoming role models instead of the pariahs their reckless and pointless behaviors aught logically to make them.

Anyways, that's my theory as to "how does this happen?"  and you've already seen my last tirade on why it happens, probably skipped over it like this one because it's too damn long.

 

[iceplosion]

@Nphyx: We have something similar to the FYLSE it's called the LNAT, also I'm from Ireland.
As for the running out of money thing there are scholarships, student loans (I don't know if you have this in the US, a loan with 2% interest which you don't have to pay back until you are finished university and earning a certain amount of money) and getting a job, I'm sure your friend who worked at blockbuster tried his best but over here there are plenty of programs to help people get through University, I don't know if they exist in the US but over here money isn't what people worry about at university (getting in is the hard part)


Anyway I think this goes off topic from my original point which is that intelligence isn't restricted to the upper classes and that someone who is smart enough can generally avoid teen pregnancy and even if it does happen it doesn't doom that person to being a failure and it's certainly not a tool to keep the majority of people in the lower classes like Dissonance stated.

 

[Samboy]

Let them have sex and squirt out babies at 13 or 14.

All that means is their little ball and chains made of flesh will drag them down to the lower classes, leaving more room for middle-upper class people (like me) to get ahead.

Despite the American mantra of freedom and equality always chanted in everybody's face, the USA, like every other country, operates on a class system where the majority of the people must be in the lower classes so the higher-class minority can enjoy a good lifestyle.  So every retarded kid who decides not to use a condom, or get knocked up and keep it, is one less obstacle in my way to having a better life.  ;D

You sir appear to be rather unintelligent, it is unlikely you will succeed in life in the way that you believe you will. (although honestly it kinda sounds like you're jealous these guys are getting some and you aren't )
Not every country uses a class system (it's kind of sad you would think that just because your own country does) and the class a person is born into has no impact on their intelligence, the majority of teen preganacies are due to a lack of information being provided and a lack of sex education.
I'm a law student, my father is a judge and my mother was one of the highest paid interior designers in the country(she is 42 and semi-retired now) it's pretty fair to say I fall into the middle-upper class category, some of my best friends come from the working class and there are more than a few who are smarter than me (I have one friend who speaks six languages fluently) intelligence is the most important deciding factor in a persons lifestyle.
Oh and did I happen to mention that my parents were in their earlier twenties when they had me? yeah and they were teenagers when they had my older brother.
I'm pretty sure that proves your theory wrong.

When you say class, you really mean how much money you can squeeze out of your hard working parents.

 

[Ninjitsu]

We've gone away from the pregnancy topic, and are now talking about economic status?
0.o. O..k...a...y.

 

[___]

Economic status and teen pregnancy rates (as well as other consequences of extremely irresponsible behavior) are directly intertwined.  You can't really have an honest examination of the issue without admitting that.  Many things factor into it of course and a lot of them are interrelated; e.g. poor education is friends with poor impulse control is friends with poor families.

 

[Dissonance]

Not every country uses a class system (it's kind of sad you would think that just because your own country does) and the class a person is born into has no impact on their intelligence, the majority of teen preganacies are due to a lack of information being provided and a lack of sex education.

I only quoted this bit because honestly, the rest of it is full of insults and conjecture.  So I've distilled all the random sidetracking you've done and pulled out what seems to be your arguement.

not every country uses a class system

You can't be serious.  Do you seriously believe your government is actually trying to push the idea that "All men are created equal"?  Every country has sets of classes.  It's not a system that is to be 'used', it is a system that exists WHENEVER two people are of different gender/race/religion/economic backgrounds.  It's unfortunate, but true.

the majority of teen preganacies are due to a lack of information being provided and a lack of sex education.

But even so, surely they must know the one basic fact of sex - when you have it, babies happen.  Forget about sex education, forget about lack of information.  Even the most sexually uneducated person who has no idea what birth control is, who has never seen a condom before, knows that sex leads to babies.  You'd be hard pressed to find a single person in the world over 12 years old that doesn't know that AT LEAST, the guy goes inside the girl, and through some unexplainable magic, babies appear.

KNOWING THIS (and yes, they all know this,) if they still choose to have it, thinking "oh just this once is fine" or "it will never happen to me" or "i am special" or whatever kind of blind idealism they want to dream up so they can go off and do it and somehow think no baby will result... I'd say that's a fine indicator of intelligence, right there.

 

[Luminier]

KNOWING THIS (and yes, they all know this,) if they still choose to have it, thinking "oh just this once is fine" or "it will never happen to me" or "i am special" or whatever kind of blind idealism they want to dream up so they can go off and do it and somehow think no baby will result... I'd say that's a fine indicator of intelligence, right there.

Ah, but you have failed to consider the myriad of myths about sex, which seem to collect in the minds of the sexually uneducated. If someone has intercourse, without knowing anything about birth control, they may very well think of some cock& bull method of contraception. Read: The chick can't get pregnant if she's on top. It's gravity! Further reading includes: "If she jumps up, and down afterwards, she can't get pregnant!", and of course "She can't get impregnated if she's not ovulating!".

I know if I was some uneducated hick, that knew nothing of the exact science(science?) of sex, then I would perhaps think that if all of the semen... dribbles... out... Then she couldn't get pregnant, as it is no longer in her body.

Not to mention the fact that people that are so totally uneducated about sex(however many there may be. Not too many, I'd wager), would likely be the spawn of maniacal bible-thumpers, and therefore be much less likely to actually engage in sexual activity.

... I think I kinda stopped making sense at the end, there.

 

[snuggles]

Not to mention the fact that people that are so totally uneducated about sex(however many there may be. Not too many, I'd wager), would likely be the spawn of maniacal bible-thumpers, and therefore be much less likely to actually engage in sexual activity.

Actually, people who make "purity vows" aren't any less likely to have premarital sex than those who don't; it's about 88-90% for the thumpers and same for the general population. (My guess is, telling a teen that sex is sinful and naughty just makes it seem fun and rebellious.) The biggest difference is that thumpers don't know what they're doing, so they don't protect themselves as well. As a result, they have higher STD rates. Not sure about pregnancy rates, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were higher too.

 

[Luminier]

Yeah... but I said that after being up for almost two days straight. Plus, I was hungry. I can't really say that I agree with what I said. Well, my first point still stands, dammit! I need sleep. O_O

 

[Clizzz]

Well, time for some input, I guess.

I was pulled out of school in the 3rd Grade. Which means I'm homeschooled. So, I didn't get any Sex Ed, AT ALL. However, the main point of of this thread is about how people aren't educated about Sex. I'm here, my friends to tell you that this for the most part (at least during my experiences) isn't true. I learned about sex, before my Dad got to me about, from my friends, who were going to public school and did have Education on the subject at hand. I got all the excruciating details. I was like "Ewww, that's soo gross". In essence most people go through that stage of initial shock-and-disgustedness. But in all this issue really chalks down to LUST, not Education, Lust.

The American Society is built around Lust and Impatientness. Fast Food, Instant Microvable Food (not that there's anything wrong with this). However our whole society is about getting what we want, NOW. Credit cards and debt, are the same thing. So is Sex. Vene said that after her friends got hot 'n' heavy, their "men" left. This solidifies the point that most sex today is based of Lust. It's not like, "oh baby, I love you so much, that I wanna give you my most sacred treasure."(Though for some women, I'm sure that it's this way) It's, "OMG, look at those hips sway, and those great knockers. I have to get me some."

Sex today is built around outward appearances and lewd behavior. Women walking around in scant clothing, advertising themselves to Everybody and everything. Is it any wonder that all the dudes would be like DAMN, that girl needs some Love (code word for hot, lustful, animal sex) And sure you may say, yeah well education can keep these morons from doing these things, it's the lack of patience and self-control, that causing these problems. When your in heat or something of that nature, your not gonna see some girl undress, and look at her stomach and say " WOW, what were about to do, will put a living being into play here." Most people would say, "Damn, I can't get these drawers off fast enough." Love in Teenage Sex, is pretty much non-existent. Sure you can reason and say " Hey, they were B/G-friend, isn't this taking love to a new level? Well, it's not love when the boyfriend checks out. That's because the relationship wasn't founded on making each other happy (or safe). Its making ME happy.

Some of you may call me a nut, but teens really have no right having sex. I mean for Christ's sake. We've hardly gotten to full Sexual Maturity, much less even discovered our selves (xD, sounds profound right?). That's just how I see it. I, personally believe ( and this is my belief, I'm not so fanatical as to say that this should be enforced) that sex is sacred, and It can be enjoyed sooo much more if saved for marriage. By, opening yourself up to have sex, your saying to the world, I really don't give a damn if this is a gift to be shared with ONE PERSON, I want pleasure and I want it NOW. and thus our problem today.

IMHO, this should actually be something of a sort of pride. "This here woman is the only one who'll get IT from me." In closing, I really think the whole problem stems from a lot of things. Lust, Impatience, Lack of Self- Discipline, and an overall Indifference/Ignorance to The Effect of loose clothing and/or loose behavior/demeanor.

Damn, LOL, I just wrote a paper. My English Teacher'll be proud 'o' Me. xD

@Venetia: Masturbation = Self-Abuse LOLz, but hey, to each his own.

 

[Venetia]

I disagree. I think sexuality should be less taboo and more accepted. It's human nature to feel desire and to act upon it. Teaching and encouraging self-restrain should be just as important as opening up alternatives to risky behavior.

Saying that a hormonal teen shouldn't have sex is like telling a group of fat guys not to eat your chocolate cake when your back is turned. Sure, some will resist. But chances are, there's going to be a big bite out of that cake when you turn back around to look! :P

 

[___]

Well I agree with Clizzz's reasoning on the cause of the problem and Venetia's point simultaneously.  Fact of the matter is the average person is physically ready for and desirous of sex in the early teens.  The fact that our society is structured in such a way that people of that age are not trained as or treated as adults is irrelevant as far as the body's natural tendencies are concerned, and denying that as a fact only results in more problems.

Now, the problem of lack of patience and discipline is endemic in all of the modern western world.  We are trained by everything we surround ourselves with to instantly satisfy our desires whenever possible without any concern for long term consequences, and often provided "solutions" to the problems that this behavior creates that only result in more and worse problems down the line.  It is hard if not impossible to make most people these days understand long term risk or appreciate long term reward because they simply are not brought up to understand these things, and they are not, however much you would like it to be so, ingrained instinctually in human consciousness.  These concepts must be taught through training and education, a job traditionally handled by parents; but the parents of our generation and their parents before them, thanks in part to the cultural, economic and political turmoil of the last two centuries, have had no idea how to do that or in some cases any understanding of the necessity.

Instead three generations of our culture are completely indoctrinated into the idea that there can only be black and white simple solutions.  The answer to teen pregnancy is to tell teenagers to not have sex; the answer to drug abuse is to imprison or jail drug abusers; the answer to violence is to kill the instigators; the answer to obesity is mutilation of the body (or the non-solution of magical cures that don't actually work).  We will solve all society's "evils" by killing the "bad people" or else somehow removing from them the opportunity to do bad things, rather than getting to the root of the problem, asking hard questions like, "why do people do these things" and "what can we do to change their motivations" or "what can we do to prevent the harm caused by this behavior, or better yet channel it into something positive."

 

[Clizzz]

@Venetia: I have no problem with teens having sex. I'm neither their conscience or their crossguard, but the reasons for having sex are all the same. Lust. And a pinch of curiosity. And I agree that the SUBJECT of sexuality should be expounded on with out fear, but I'm saying that the practice of some of these sexual practices is what is degrading the individuals of society. And of course self-restraint is important too, but that only goes so far.
Oh, and I see you've finally got that chainsaw   :rock: Rock on, just don't come near me with it. XD

 

[Venetia]

Self-restraint is easier when people of authority are more open about the subject.

Do kids run off to the backseat of their friend's car to do math problems or talk about how your mom knows a guy who does her hair just the way she likes?

People have a real interest in sex because it's taboo. It's dirty. It's naughty. It features parts you don't see very often and it's one of the few things in the world that makes you actually feel physically good.

If your parents were open about it, and your teachers were open about it, and those naughty parts weren't so naughty anymore, it'd be easier for it to be more "mundane".

Of course there'd still be people addicted to it--just like math teachers love math and fat people love food. But if you give a kid all the information you can and you're open to discussing their urges, the precautions, and if they know about alternatives (which many times are better), I think the society would really get a lot of good from it. Not just in pregnancy levels--everything.

If you're open about drinking, kids won't run off to college and binge every night because it's new and different.

If you're open about drugs, kids won't sneak off to their friends' garages to sneak a puff just because they want to experiment.

If you're open about religion, kids can make their own choices instead of hauling off and going insta-atheist the second some douchebag with a long speech gets to them on a college campus.

If you're open about relationships, they'll be more likely to find a partner they can rely on.

If you're open about homosexuality, then less confused kids'll kill themselves searching for inclusion and only finding derision.

The list goes on.

Is it fool-proof? No. Is it more accepting and does it foster a greater understanding and concept of unity? YES. And that's what kids really want. To be accepted for who they are, what they want in life, and who they want to be. Lust is a product of the human condition, but need for acceptance IS the human condition!