Sorry for this but: WOMAN RAPES CHILD; NOT CONSIDERED RAPE.

[Ellie]

The problem with the push for equality is the rising number of people who call this erasure, ("by the patriarchy" of course) - making men and women the same is just another way of men assimilating women. Apparently.

But, you know, fuck them.

If we can't call it equalism, just call it equality, or fairness.

 

[Perihelion]

Spooky, a lot of issues won't be solved just by shutting up and working hard. You will never be given concessions you don't ask for because it's not in the interest of the concessions-giver to do so. There are productive things the feminist lobby could and should do with their vast amounts of money if they actually wanted female equality, things that are unlikely to happen on their own (mandatory paternity leave, forcing corporations to publish fixed wages for positions like they do in other countries, etc.). Same goes for men. Laws discriminating against men in domestic matters will never be corrected without a big political/financial push.

The problem with the push for equality is the rising number of people who call this erasure, ("by the patriarchy" of course) - making men and women the same is just another way of men assimilating women. Apparently.

But, you know, fuck them.

If we can't call it equalism, just call it equality, or fairness.

Yeah, I hear egalitarianism is a dirty word now. I just find it absolutely appalling how self-absorbed some people are, and even worse, how much influence they have.

 

[Venetia]

I know I don't run around calling myself a feminist all the time for that reason, and I don't want to speak for Ven, but I imagine that might be part of it for her as well.

Yep, exactly. The word itself has a stigma, and honestly more would get done for equality by not focusing on gender bias and instead on just making sure everyone is on a level playing field.

There's no point in spending time bringing attention to yourself as a protester when you could instead be bringing attention to yourself as a dedicated, hard worker willing to show that you'll work just as well or better than men (or women, depending on the field, I guess).

Not necessarily my point; you can triumph over bias on a personal level by working hard and proving your worth. But then you are also making yourself an exception rather than a rule.

Amusingly enough, I've established myself as "one of the guys" so much at work, that even in meetings, the guys will now openly make jokes about women around me. If I look over and say, "what, I'm not like that?" they laugh and pat me on my shoulder and say, "no not like you, like, you know, most women." And then I can't help but laugh along because god damn it, it's generally true! So while I myself have thwarted gender bias in a way, it's done little to change the way ladies are popularly viewed. And, sadly, most women fall into the stereotypes simply because it's what everyone thinks they should be/look like/act like.

There needs to be awareness that fairness and equality should be paramount, in laws & in the workplace. I just don't think it's going to happen with movements like "feminism" because it is directly praising one thing over the other, and it breeds shitty behavior from its most staunch supporters (women good/men bad).

When I say people should shut up and stop making special exceptions, I mean that they should stop making special exceptions. 1st-world societies are in a place, for the most part, where this should no longer be an uphill battle, and no one really needs to "fight" for things to be more balanced. Education and awareness which focus on equality for all, regardless of race/gender/creed/etc. should be what we focus on. Which is a slower thing and a less direct thing but it wouldn't alienate anyone and it wouldn't breed militant behavior.

 

[Perihelion]

Yep, exactly. The word itself has a stigma, and honestly more would get done for equality by not focusing on gender bias and instead on just making sure everyone is on a level playing field.

Absolutely. Unfortunately "let's treat everyone fairly instead of only looking out for our own particular interests" isn't a cause you can realistically rally people around.

 

[Venetia]

It's true :/

People are just ... designed to be exclusive in nature :/

 

[Perihelion]

Yeah, I dunno what can be done about it. The feminist movement needs to lay the fuck off and stop antagonizing everyone, though. That would help a lot. It seems like it gets more extreme over time, though, not less. I guess now that most of the institutional issues facing women have been solved, they need something else to do with themselves. :\

 

[united washcloth express]

Nothing can be done. This world is doomed

 

[Sauk]

Okay. To be fair, feminism as a movement has been basically completely ruined by radicals and lobbyists, so I don't really blame you for your opinion. It just sucks that there isn't really a good option for people who think that everyone's problems are important and we should sit down and solve them like adults.

And this is the voice of reason I had been looking for a few days ago when I linked a facebook page with roughly 600 photos of people saying why they need feminism. Ven wouldn't even look at it because of the word feminism, which I found really...odd. I realize the movement has been thoroughly stained, but at the same time, until we get a new word, that's all we've got to call it.

And before anyone even considers suggesting Equalism as a name, please, watch Avatar: The Legend of Korra. That's already off on the wrong foot.

Again....

A) FEMinism.
B) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iARHCxAMAO0
C) Those are dumb reasons to "need" a system that calls you a supporter of rape culture for owning a penis and doesn't recognize you at all as a feminist.
D)http://www.womenagainstmen.com/adve...dards-board-response-on-voodoo-complaint.html
E)

F) This entire thread
G) You are under the impression that FEMinism = equality and is for everyone and is focused on everyone's rights; Why are there female only clubs but not men only clubs as that is "sexism"? Why are divorced men 10x more likely to commit suicide than divorced females? Why are men more likely to drop out of school vs women? Why are 85% of all custody battles won by women yet around 70% of all child abuse is committed by mothers and 65% of all child murder is committed by females (according to US department of Justice)? Feminism doesn't help out men and boys in these situations because feminism's sole purpose is not to help out the entire planet; Feminists get mad when people address these issues along with ones pertaining to male rape and male abuse AND the bullshit concept of reproductive rights.

I tried to end the feminist stuff a long time ago and ever since Ven's call out thread you've made it your mission to make comments about my beliefs when it wasn't warranted (I.E. posting that Elliott Hulse video about telling a girl she's beautiful no matter what, Making comments about "this is prob. why Sauk hates females", Posting that "this is what feminism is all about" post in PWOYM, and rehashing this feminism discussion ITT after I tried ending it when Peri told me to shhhhh about it). Why.

Just so you know since this is over text I am not trying to be confrontational nor am I getting emotional.

 

[Glitchfinder]

Sauk, we've already said that people were reacting to the stain on the word caused by self-righteous assholes. You don't have to demonstrate for us.

 

[Sauk]

I really don't think you understand exactly how bad it is otherwise you wouldn't try to vouch for "the good ol' dayz of feminizm" and how it's still relevant today; That's fine that you guys established this fact that I've been promoting when I've defended myself against you but the fact that you were on my balls about it clearly shows that you think it's just the minority and not the majority.

That video where the women and men (if you can even call them that) blocked off the seminar was at a university and they were a part of a women's study class; They didn't let the man enter when he wanted closure and understanding for why his friends killed themselves and the lady had the audacity to claim that feminism is what he needed.. that's no better than claiming Christianity is the only religion someone needs and everyone else should abandon their beliefs.

 

[Glitchfinder]

I never claimed it was the minority. Nor did I try to hark back to any kind of good old days. The word has ALWAYS referred to promoting womens' rights. At this point, women have more or less equal legal standing, with a few glaring issues where women actually have a clear legal advantage. There have never been good days for feminism. It started as a massive uphill battle, with pain for everyone involved. Now that women have mostly achieved legal equality, the ones working toward that goal have dropped out and others suffering from perceived slights have stepped up to try to push it one step further.

And I am perfectly willing to admit that in many areas, women are at a clear legal advantage. Paternity suits, divorce, and other support claims are a good example. But one thing I have yet to hear people mention is that the last I checked, women are not required to register for the draft. I understand that the draft hasn't been used in decades, but it's still there looming as a threat to men.

As I said, the term is stained, and twisted. The original purpose is gone, and will hopefully never come back. And as I said, there is no term I've ever heard for people striving to set all of the remaining gaps to level ground, because it's a movement that hasn't taken off yet.

 

[Venetia]

???????? why are you cutting your wrists and crying assault here sauk??? to my knowledge no one has called you out in this thread, no one has said even once that men were to blame for anything, and no one has even sort of demonized men in the tiniest slightest bit. in fact we [for the most part] were actually agreeing with you???

dude ... i dont understand how you think that my/peri's/etc.'s talking about pro-equality is anti-men. like at all

 

[Venetia]

christ why in the shit does sauk act like men are these beleaguered second-class citizens

am i wrong in thinking that men still have it rather good???

the alimony shit is unfair i agree but ... god damn dude

it's like white people complaining they're downtrodden because black people have a special month

... no, it's still pretty great to be white, last i checked

 

[dadevvtsvre]

Yeah, I dunno what can be done about it. The feminist movement needs to lay the fuck off and stop antagonizing everyone, though. That would help a lot. It seems like it gets more extreme over time, though, not less. I guess now that most of the institutional issues facing women have been solved, they need something else to do with themselves. :\

everybody in this thread keeps saying that most feminists are extremists and are driving people away from the movement but i don't think the extremists are anything other than a minority

in all the time i've spend (admittedly, not a whole lot) learning about social equality and participating in feminist movements, i don't think i've met more than a handful of women who would describe themselves as self-professed "man-haters".

 

[Spoo]

I don't...no. I think we're all getting the wrong idea here.

Sauk is disdained at the unfair treatment of men vs women in society, not so much the progression of women's rights and treatment in various places.

I don't think he's being all that defensive. I just think he's passionate about the issue.

 

[Venetia]

sorry it just REALLY sounded like he was getting really defensive lol

nvm me then

 

[Sauk]

And I am perfectly willing to admit that in many areas, women are at a clear legal advantage. Paternity suits, divorce, and other support claims are a good example. But one thing I have yet to hear people mention is that the last I checked, women are not required to register for the draft. I understand that the draft hasn't been used in decades, but it's still there looming as a threat to men.

Then you haven't read/watched any MRA articles/videos; They discuss things like the draft and the concept of chivalry incl. women and children first and other such things the MOST. There's actually videos on youtube of fights where a woman has hit a man beside a police officer and the police officer didn't do anything until the man hit her back; I'm pretty sure that violence against women is a harsher crime than violence against men which just reinforces the confidence and "balls" of a trashy female and challenges her to start more fights since she will be protected. There's other small things that are so petty that it's not even worth paying attention to but then there's the large things like ambiguous rape statistics, denial of male rape, harsher penalties for violence against women (who are 70% more likely to initiate disturbance), family court and divorce court biases that lead to the high male suicide rate, forced parenthood onto men when a woman won't abort, child support forced onto men when a woman won't abort, reproductive rights being removed from a man yet contraceptive responsibility is placed on men, the myth of gender wage gaps, the myth of the class ceiling, misandry in the media through advertisements and television shows, etc and those are the things that I pay attention to and want stopped.

IMO women need to stop trying to compete with men and people need to stop telling women to be men, and people NEED to stop thinking that having battered husband + son shelters means not having women's shelters (among other things).

???????? why are you cutting your wrists and crying assault here sauk??? to my knowledge no one has called you out in this thread, no one has said even once that men were to blame for anything, and no one has even sort of demonized men in the tiniest slightest bit. in fact we [for the most part] were actually agreeing with you???

dude ... i dont understand how you think that my/peri's/etc.'s talking about pro-equality is anti-men. like at all

why are you acting like a victim

I wot?

I may have given examples of the time when it happened to better explain my point but I never stated that anyone called me out ITT; I said that Peri told me to shh about the feminism stuff since it didn't really belong itt and I agreed, apologised, and stated my reasoning for ranting and tried to end it there but asides from that idk where you think I'm playing victim.

Again I was just adding my knowledge to the conversation and was basically only directing my points at Glitch because of that one post in PWOYM and him saying that he was confused that you didn't support something to do with feminism. Never did I say that you guys were blaming men and being misandric; I was just stating facts to support my claims and give a broader picture because I don't like talking about things and not being able to prove them correct.

:huh: :huh: :huh:

I don't...no. I think we're all getting the wrong idea here.

Sauk is disdained at the unfair treatment of men vs women in society, not so much the progression of women's rights and treatment in various places.

I don't think he's being all that defensive. I just think he's passionate about the issue.

hnng ily buddy.

And everyone here at haych b games.
















except Megaflare

 

[moog]

this whole thread has made me LOL so fucking hard

sauk for the academy award for best supporting weeaboo

 

[So fist]

LOL at someone turning this thread into a rant about feminism. The reality is most likely that the statute was written in an era where women were expected to be housewives and criminologists and psychologists considered pedophilia to be a subset of homosexuality (back when homosexuality was considered an aberrant behavior that required medical treatment). An era that assumed women are victims because women are the weaker sex and deal with stress by succumbing to fits of melancholy that can be easily treated with EST. The statute as written has nothing to do with feminism. In fact quite the opposite considering the assumptions it operates on.

 

[Sauk]

I'll believe all that when I see feminists rally for equal criminal titles.

Women cannot be rapists nor can they be pedophiles and the public doesn't want to view them that way which is why pedophilia is called seduction and rape is called sexual violation which is just sugar coating the crime to sound less severe and any mentioning of a female rapist is misogyny since men can only rape. My small rant in the OP was directed at the fact that male rape is denied and that's pretty much it ("men cannot be raped since rape for men is limited to penetration and if he is hard then he is enjoying himself"); There was no other deep seeded reason or cryptic message present when I blamed feminism for politically correct criminal titles.

Aside from all that nobody paid any attention to it until it was brought up and I had already apologised for adding it to the OP when it was in hopes that it wouldn't turn into another typical Sauk thread.