Sorry for this but: WOMAN RAPES CHILD; NOT CONSIDERED RAPE.

[Sauk]

To be fair, you were the one who brought the subject up. I can split the feminism stuff into a separate thread if you like, though.

I didn't really want this to blow up into a big debate, but I guess that ship has already sailed. I also question your statistics, since I've heard plenty of contradictory ones, but it's very hard to find accurate statistics about this sort of thing that aren't slanted by some interest group. Also, are you seriously contending that men's representation in media is anywhere near bad as women's?

I misinterpreted the 15% statistic as 15% of all child custody instead of 15% of sole custody; Admittedly I am very new to this entire topic and have only been indulging myself into statistics and the like for about half a year now and finding statistic to do with men's issues is like finding a needle in a haystack.

Sauk, I think the problem people have with you isn't that you care about men's rights but rather that you seem to view everything in terms of some war between men and women. Your posts are almost entirely about how men are suffering compared to women or how women's efforts are hurting men.

I'm analyzing things to try and have better understandings and present my opinions to people to get feedback and adjust where necessary. I feel as though since it's such a taboo issue my posts come across that way but I'm not trying to put the point that men suffer more across but that nobody seems to address the issues ever, and by nobody I don't mean anyone from this website.

I really don't think I've been defensive ITT nor do I feel I've been super aggressive towards anyone and I can't understand how I can be verbally assaulted and it be completely OK but meh I'm not too concerned with any of that.

Maybe you're just not presenting yourself well, but your posts read like "help women are oppressing me" or "women have it so much better than men" rather than "this is a problem, how do we solve it?" You come off as totally uninterested in and unsympathetic towards women's problems and women in general. It's fine to have a cause you're personally invested in and champion in particular, but not when you act like that and seem to criticize other people for doing the same thing for a different cause.

Again I don't intent to present myself this way and as seen before I've been totally misunderstood; I've been actually interested in this topic for little over a year and have just started to make efforts to completely understand the issue since it's not something that's taught in schools so I'm going to make mistakes when debating. I have a stronger focus on men's rights but that doesn't mean I hate females; I'll address men's rights issues before I address females but that doesn't mean I'm unsympathetic towards female's issues.

I've tried to be mature and emotion free during this entire argument and even went as far as to declare the lack of emotion and confrontation in my posts/not responding aggressively towards ad hominem attacks because I didn't want people to auto think "Oh here is Sauk being a bitter woman hating douchebag who is nothing but aggressive and a baby and stupid".

I'll take the blame and just leave it at that.

Sauk, I gotta ask: do you really think women have zero problems and there is no longer any kind of sexism towards women, or do you just come off as thinking that? I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but you kinda give that impression.

No I don't but I don't think men's issues are cared about and that's all I've said ever; When something needs to be fixed people don't focus on the things that work properly but the things that are broken (I believe so fist said such things before they started insulting me).

 

[Perihelion]

Spooky, you're missing my point. I don't think Sauk hates women, and I'm not accusing him of sounding like he does. I'm saying he comes off as combative rather than solution-oriented because everything he posts is about men vs. women, and things like this exchange

Writing off the entire feminist movement and not just the bad parts (which, to be fair, are most of it) is just as bad as writing off the entire male rights movement.

... I'll agree to disagree at the last thing you said.

, while politely worded, create the impression that he doesn't think women have problems that are as legitimate/serious as men's. I know that's not what he said, and I commend him for being civil about it, but people get that impression. Since he never expresses sympathy for/understanding of women's problems, it makes it seems like he doesn't acknowledge them or care about them or something. I'm not saying that's what he actually thinks by any means; I'm just trying to help him understand why people are antagonized by him when he's not trying to antagonize anyone. I know he's been frustrated by the way big arguments blow up whenever he talks about this issue, and I think how he's talking about it has a lot more to do with that than what he's actually saying or even what he actually thinks.

 

[Perihelion]

Whoops, got pulled away from the computer for a bit.

I misinterpreted the 15% statistic as 15% of all child custody instead of 15% of sole custody; Admittedly I am very new to this entire topic and have only been indulging myself into statistics and the like for about half a year now and finding statistic to do with men's issues is like finding a needle in a haystack.

Yeah, that's fair. I was also referring to the wage gap issue, because I think there are a lot of misconceptions about it. Women definitely get paid less to do the same jobs as men in a lot of cases and get promoted less, especially to high ranks, but the exact reasons for it are unclear. I mean, you can chalk fewer promotions up to valuing family more than men, but some studies I've read debunked that (although who knows how biased they are). One possible reason for the difference in pay for the same jobs is that women are less likely than men to negotiate salary unless they're explicitly told the salary is negotiable, but there are a number of conflicting studies on how much that really has to do with the problem. I don't know how much you can really trust statistics on things like contentious gender issues, because there are tons of interest groups funding studies that massage the data to get the desired result.

As far as verbal assault goes, Sophist is definitely out of line, and I'm glad you're not mud-slinging in return. It's especially important to stay civil when arguing about contentious issues. Also, I know you don't intend to present yourself as unsympathetic to women's issues, but I think people read your posts that way. My recommendation is to try not to directly compare men and women so much (since it seems like complaining about women when that's most of what you do) and make sure you also express understanding of women's issues. I think people will respond less negatively if you do.

No I don't but I don't think men's issues are cared about and that's all I've said ever; When something needs to be fixed people don't focus on the things that work properly but the things that are broken (I believe so fist said such things before they started insulting me).

Yeah, that's what I thought, but I wanted to publicly clear it up for everyone. Again, if I were you, I'd just try to present myself in a more neutral and even-handed way if you don't want people to misinterpret you.

 

[So fist]

Soph, bro, I'm sorry, but fuck right off here. I can't speak for whether statistics are correct or not, but you're being an asshole for no reason.

All I'm doing is rubbing his nose in his own crap. It's not my fault if he doesn't like the smell. Second he didn't source the stench, which is a big no no. It reeks of either, "I made them up, or my source is so disreputable I wouldn't share it."

I misinterpreted the 15% statistic as 15% of all child custody instead of 15% of sole custody; Admittedly I am very new to this entire topic and have only been indulging myself into statistics and the like for about half a year now and finding statistic to do with men's issues is like finding a needle in a haystack.

To people who depend on blogs regurgitating and dittoing views about the feminazis this is true. For those of us that understand statistics and how to go to sources like the BLS or BJS (Bureau of Labor Statistics and Bureau of Justice statistics respectively) it actually isn't that hard. You just don't like the answer your getting, because it's not proving your point of view.

I'm analyzing things to try and have better understandings and present my opinions to people to get feedback and adjust where necessary.

No you aren't. The whole point of this thread was for you to eventually use the story go off on some stupid homily of how women expect special treatment. And surprise surprise it happened. Seriously what else would there be to really say in this thread. Stupid outdated laws are stupid and outdated? You aren't that shallow and vapid, right?

I've tried to be mature and emotion free during this entire argument and even went as far as to declare the lack of emotion and confrontation in my posts/not responding aggressively towards ad hominem attacks because I didn't want people to auto think "Oh here is Sauk being a bitter woman hating douchebag who is nothing but aggressive and a baby and stupid".

Get off your cross. Your ideas and perspectives are silly and required a reality check. The bullshit statistics you or some other blogger made up even more so. It's not my fault you see them as an extension of yourself and therefore to you an ad hominem. That's a personal problem, buddy. If the idea was just an idea that you want to analyze you wouldn't take it so personally. You lack perspective. You feel something and want to prove it so. It's the opposite of empirical analysis.

Also be my guest and write how you feel. Who gives a fuck what these people think. You think I give a shit what Spooky thinks of me? Nope. No offense to Spooky.

 

[Perihelion]

Sophie, I think he is correct in saying that you're being overly aggressive. You bring up some good points, but he's not actually gonna listen to you unless you're more civil towards him.

 

[Perihelion]

Which maybe isn't your goal but whatever, just throwing that out there.

 

[Sauk]

No you aren't. The whole point of this thread was for you to eventually use the story go off on some stupid homily of how women expect special treatment. And surprise surprise it happened. Seriously what else would there be to really say in this thread. Stupid outdated laws are stupid and outdated? You aren't that shallow and vapid, right?

Oh shut the fuck up you self-righteous twat; If you didn't notice I hardly posted ITT and when I did it had nothing to do with feminism until the thread became about feminism when Peri brought up my small rant that was given no attention to what so ever and everyone else went on about feminism.

I didn't post at all until Glitch did and when I did post I was ONLY talking to Glitch; Funny how correct me when I make an assumption about your motives and reasoning while telling me what I'm doing and how I'm thinking.

Get off your cross. Your ideas and perspectives are silly and required a reality check. The bullshit statistics you or some other blogger made up even more so. It's not my fault you see them as an extension of yourself and therefore to you an ad hominem. That's a personal problem, buddy. If the idea was just an idea that you want to analyze you wouldn't take it so personally. You lack perspective. You feel something and want to prove it so. It's the opposite of empirical analysis.

So calling me moronic isn't an insult and claiming I have deep seeded mommy issues/bitterness isn't ad hominem?

Okay.

 

[So fist]

but he's not actually gonna listen to you unless you're more civil towards him.

He doesn't listen to things he doesn't want to hear, anyway. That's why he debates with unsourced bullshit statistics and shitscrawl from some blog trying to prove the gender conspiracy. Going the whole collegial civil debate would end with him being like, "That's nice, let's agree to disagree," and then he'll go back to his favored politicized pornography to find yet another scrap of nonsense that he believes completely proves the viewpoint he's firmly invested his sentiments in. People's strong political and social perspectives change and shape over a long period of time. A single debate won't flip a person who has an entrenched viewpoint. Only living can do that.

 

[Perihelion]

I agree that people never change deeply-held beliefs because of discussions, but again, I don't see what insulting him accomplishes either. If discussing it is pointless, fine, but in that case we should just mandate that he doesn't talk about it period instead of making it a big deal when he does.

 

[So fist]

If you didn't notice I hardly posted ITT and when I did it had nothing to do with feminism until the thread became about feminism when Peri brought up my small rant

The first thing you wrote about this story was here was why you hate feminists. You brought the story as a polemic against feminism. Its the first thing you fucking said. Excuse me for thinking you brought this up to bitch about feminism. Seriously Sauk, you made your own bed here. Take some responsibility.

So calling me moronic isn't an insult and claiming I have deep seeded mommy issues/bitterness isn't ad hominem?

Never said anything about mommy issues. Must be something you saw in the rorshact test. Let's explore that. Tell me about your mother.

Your ideas are unfounded and moronic. You aren't your ideas though, and prolly an ok guy, otherwise. I dunno. Your just some guy I know on the internet.

 

[Sauk]

The first thing you wrote about this story was here was why you hate feminists. You brought the story as a polemic against feminism. Its the first thing you fucking said. Excuse me for thinking you brought this up to bitch about feminism. Seriously Sauk, you made your own bed here. Take some responsibility.

Holy shit tits I cannot stand social media I need to stay the fuk off of the internet/never leave this site even for 1 second.

I don't talk about this too often (in fact I try desperately to stay clear of this entire topic on this forum and in life in general) but this really needs to be addressed IMO; How is this even remotely considered moral?

I took some responsibility when I apologised for adding that to the thread since it was just me angrily ranting; Why the fuck is it okay for everyone else to do this but not me?

So calling me moronic isn't an insult and claiming I have deep seeded mommy issues/bitterness isn't ad hominem?

Never said anything about mommy issues. Must be something you saw in the rorshact test. Let's explore that. Tell me about your mother.

Your ideas are unfounded and moronic. You aren't your ideas though, and prolly an ok guy, otherwise. I dunno. You're just some guy I know on the internet.

You are retarded, and you seem to project most things you didn't like about some girl onto women or feminism in general.

Okay.

Actually so fist if you had corrected me without being an outright cunt towards me I would have looked up everything you said and considered different things; This happened when someone corrected me about race and complexion when I was young and thought italian was a different race from white.

Anyway you did your best to belittle me and you're getting what you want; I won't post about this any more and will stay out of rec room.

 

[moog]

Soph I love you man you man but I think you should ease up just a bit, because I don't think Sauk gets it.

Lets pls not turn this into ragefest 2013

 

[So fist]

I won't post about this any more

Objective accomplished.

and will stay out of rec room

I don't see the point in that. One has nothing to do with the other. You're prolly an alright guy. A little thin skinned maybe, but it prolly got a little thicker today.

 

[united washcloth express]

Is this what is referred to in some circles as "Srs Buznis?"

-contribute or don't post at all.
-moderator

 

[Perihelion]

UWE is not contributing here.

 

[dadevvtsvre]

welcome to hbgames how can i help you

 

[moog]

this is stupid and we are done here