RPG that you could replay over and over again?
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koon no kami
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I wish i were able to play chrono cross... i was really interested in it. sure, it was not "chrono trigger" but the character design still looked pretty awesome. chubby-faced bright-eyed 3D-anime kids yo! X3 so cute. although i dunnow how they were displayed personality wise of cause.
mutated kirby":9ab4ra8y said:how can you hate chrono cross
I can understand alot of se games (alot fucking SUCK) but cc was one of the most original games ever
How wrong you are. Yes the plot was good, but the large cast of one-dimensional characters you never needed or even used, plus the gameplay that consisted of "go to place a and get item b. Take b to place c to get item d. Take d back to a" kind of ruined it for a lot of us.
I actually thought it was a large POSITIVE point to have a large cast of playable characters. While some of the characters were just plain shitty, it gave players a huge palette of choices to fill their teams with. And while some of them were rather 1-dimensional, there were a large number of them who were pretty deep, for a secondary or tertiary character in the plot.
Like the mermaid, she had a sad story involving herself and the sea captain, and how she was lost and alone for so long.
The mother of Korcha had a raucous temperament and had to constantly keep her family in check as a single mother.
The doppleganger lady was from the netherworld and had been presumably been dead for some time!
The kid, Van, was always lonely, because his father cared more about money than he did about his son.
Miki had always taken a knee to Niki and was bitter about it.
I could go on and on :/
I mean it was cliche in a lot of ways but it was still one of my favorites in a lot of ways too
Like the mermaid, she had a sad story involving herself and the sea captain, and how she was lost and alone for so long.
The mother of Korcha had a raucous temperament and had to constantly keep her family in check as a single mother.
The doppleganger lady was from the netherworld and had been presumably been dead for some time!
The kid, Van, was always lonely, because his father cared more about money than he did about his son.
Miki had always taken a knee to Niki and was bitter about it.
I could go on and on :/
I mean it was cliche in a lot of ways but it was still one of my favorites in a lot of ways too
Venetia":e304p9wb said:I actually thought it was a large POSITIVE point to have a large cast of playable characters. And while some of them were rather 1-dimensional, there were a large number of them who were pretty deep, for a secondary or tertiary character in the plot.
Like the mermaid, she had a sad story involving herself and the sea captain, and how she was lost and alone for so long.
The mother of Korcha had a raucous temperament and had to constantly keep her family in check as a single mother.
The doppleganger lady was from the netherworld and had been presumably been dead for some time!
Miki had always taken a knee to Niki and was bitter about it.
I could go on and on :/
I mean it was cliche in a lot of ways but it was still one of my favorites in a lot of ways too
Chrono Trigger was the first RPG I ever played (got into it before DnD by maybe about a year.) I didn't know what RPGs where, I wasn't familiar with turn-based combat, didn't know a lot of games came from Japan, hell I didn't even know who Akira Toriyama was. My brother just saw it at Blockbuster and thought it had a cool cover. I like Chrono Trigger far more than most other RPGs, and I think it's stood the test of time, as I can play it once every year unlike FFVII or Earthbound which can be a pain.
When Chrono Cross came out I really wanted to like it, but it really wasn't a sequel, not a legitimate one in my opinion. It had similar themes and references to Chrono Trigger, but in my mind it was nothing more than another Japanese sequel that shares the same name but has nothing to do with the previous installment (or hardly anything.)
Yes, some characters have stories, but as to how deep or interesting they were is debatable. Because they all have stories, all the stories have to fit in the game, which watered down every characters backstory. Not to mention, except for a handful NONE of their storylines had anything to do with the main plot. That's just plain old bad writing. It's almost like the creators had too many ideas to go off of, and weren't confident that any of them were good. It might've worked if maybe the story flowed through all the stories better, or we had maybe one dungeon per story to put focus front and center on one particular character, but we never got that.
And the time travel mechanic was virtually non-existent, the combat was a mess and done better in Xenogears, magic was a pain to use, the dungeons where very bland, and Serge seemed to go past mere mute main character to someone I wanted to stab right after Kidd (the annoying little prat.)
The art was good, and so was the music (since it was nothing but Chrono Trigger arrangements), but the game could've been any other game, it didn't need to be called Chrono Trigger. The whole game feels like a crappy RPG they arbitrarily titled Chrono Trigger because they knew it wouldn't sell otherwise. Chrono Trigger was lighthearted, fun, focused and extremely well polished, Chrono Cross was another throwaway RPG from the late 90s.
Radiata Stories does something very similar to Chrono Cross, but nobody raves about it's large cast of playable characters because it's always disorganized and nonsensical. The japanese love cool characters (more than plotline), so these games feel like big plug-n-play make your own party out of familiar cliche characters. Though, at least Radiata Stories didn't have living strawmen and aliens that don't fit in the setting at all. In fact, if Radiata Stories had a slightly changed plotline that namedrops Glen, Magus, the Chrono Trigger and Millenium Fair every once in a while, then called Chrono Trigger 3 I bet it would've sold better, but hated as much as Chrono Cross.
Darkfire":1sqhropk said:mutated kirby":1sqhropk said:how can you hate chrono cross
I can understand alot of se games (alot fucking SUCK) but cc was one of the most original games ever
How wrong you are.
What does that have to do with enjoying the game. The characters that are 1D were just filler and contributed nothing to the plot. If you enjoyed the game overall than you could just ignore the characters that were worthless. Besides, usually each of the characters contributed something plot wise to make the game more interesting so I dont see what you are talking about??
Originality has nothing to do with the characters. The whole take item here to there wasnt even neccessary for most of the game; it was mostly for aquiring unwanted characters. The game had a deep plot that was far from Chrono Trigger (this is one thing I LOVED about it), and quirky and interesting battle system, and a breathtaking ost (I would put it about CT's). I thought CC was damn original.
what. are you serious.
Buy, equip, use in battle. That's a real pain!
WHAT. you had better be trolling dude. The CC ost had like 5 or six major themes that were ct oriented, the rest were ALL ORIGINAL so I dont know what you are talking about??
they could call it Shit Jones McGee the RPG and it would have sold. The game was good because its content was good, not the relation to the previous title. Cross EXPANDED over trigger (imo cross was better than trigger) graphically, musically and storywise so I dont see a reason for this.
also cause radiata stories was A REALLY SHITTY jrpg that no one cares about.
Its just comic relief to add to the game, and the alien character (I assume you meant starky) was really powerful if you trained him. Also, chrono trigger had an alen-creature (the nu) living in 65 mil bc and that didnt fit the plot at all!
If you would have gave some better reasons (you usually make really great posts supporting what you say) why you didnt like the game I would have agreed but most of what you say didnt make sense and just sounds like I DIDNT LIKE IT CAUSE IT WASNT CHRONO TRIGGER, and thats cool I guess.
Alot of people didnt like CC because they really didnt get it. Hell, I didnt like it the first time cause I was in the CT mindset, but I re-played it and loved it. The games director (masaro kato or whatever his name is) made cc entirely differant to see if the fan's would connect to it (the game IS a sequel, it wraps up everything of where chrono trigger left off if you pay attention) if he changed it around.
I mean there is so much direct correlation to trigger in the game I dont see how you could NOT tell it was a sequel
But to each his own
Darkfire":2s5s3ccu said:
Well, no. They were all actually very different. Few where slightly similar mechanically, but they all had wildly different attacks and techniques, as well as unique speech patterns and lisps. Of course none of those mattered much since everytime something plot related happened every character had to have something to say, yet since none of them are important to the plot it was rarely ever relevant or interesting.
As far as character design goes I will give Chrono Cross credit for uniqueness among a fuckin-billion characters. Though, there was like, 3 hot ones and they were all really hard to get, yet you'd always have the homosexual rock star, creepy undead clown and a cavalcade of homosexually repressed androgynous guys piling into your party roster.
... Oh, and a giant pink gay dog with a HORRIBLY GAY "listhpppb".
Oh man I remember Starky and his special moves, those were so awesome and adorable <3
CC was actually the only RPG I've ever replayed sequentially (meaning I played it over again right after beating it, not like years later. Though I did that too).
I think most of all, ixis, the comments about the dungeons didn't apply. I liked the dungeons thoroughly and I thought they were all well-designed. And the music and art design were the best aspects of all, I don't even get where you're getting unoriginal from.
Yeah it played a lot differently from CT, but the game doesn't have to have identical mechanics to continue the plot. And yeah, the plot IS wrapped up in that game, just in a more off-hand, roundabout sort of way than in the previous title.
And also I really liked the battle system's magic use ideas, so I'm not sure whats up with that either :/
But hey man it's cool if you have your opinions on it. I mean I don't really like Halo much but if I went onto a FPS-lover's website I'm sure they'd fillet me.
CC was actually the only RPG I've ever replayed sequentially (meaning I played it over again right after beating it, not like years later. Though I did that too).
I think most of all, ixis, the comments about the dungeons didn't apply. I liked the dungeons thoroughly and I thought they were all well-designed. And the music and art design were the best aspects of all, I don't even get where you're getting unoriginal from.
Yeah it played a lot differently from CT, but the game doesn't have to have identical mechanics to continue the plot. And yeah, the plot IS wrapped up in that game, just in a more off-hand, roundabout sort of way than in the previous title.
And also I really liked the battle system's magic use ideas, so I'm not sure whats up with that either :/
But hey man it's cool if you have your opinions on it. I mean I don't really like Halo much but if I went onto a FPS-lover's website I'm sure they'd fillet me.
Chrono Trigger didn't have a deep plot at all, but that's why I liked it. The way time was used was devilishly clever, but it wasn't trying to make a statement about the human condition and fail horribly at it (which every other JRPG does, because the Japanese never seem to grasp that deep philisophy is more than having characters quote Nietzsche in the middle of going super saiyan.) Chrono Cross played with some of the elements of Chrono Trigger, but not effectively at all, it was obtuse and indirect. It makes a good game for being in the Chrono Trigger universe, but most people view it as a sequel, which it does terribly. It's sort of like why Fallout fans dislike Fallout3 or Brotherhood of Steel, they're fun spinoffs, but terrible sequels.
Personally, I didn't like the battle system at all. The combo thing was a neat idea, but it wasn't fluid at all, and done better in other RPGs. The OST while competent was far from breathtaking in my opinion. I don't remember a single song from CC other than the CT arrangements, and CC was a much longer game for me. I can't remember how a single song went.
As for the time travel thing, it never really came into full like it was done in CT. There was a lot of dimension jumping, but hardly any time jumping (actually, I don't remember a SINGLE time the characters went back or forth through time. Now, NPCs, villains and Kidd did it all the time, but the player never did.)
Magic was a pain in that you always had to pay attention to the magic field color system, which the monsters would fuck up all the time. That and it would take several turns to get it just right and by then you'd be better off just beating the shit out of them. Of course some monsters and bosses could just go "guess what, it's time for GREEN NIGGER!!" making the field all green in less than one turn and then would proceed to cast every green spell at you.
It would've sold better as "Shit Jones McGee the RPG" because CT fans wouldn't have played it, gone "this is crappier than CT" and turn other people away. Actually, no, it probably would've sold worse like Threads of Fate, or Unlimited SaGa or any other non FF Square RPG made at that time that nobody bought. The game didn't expand over CT in that they tried to bring the concept of spacetime into a non-auto correcting time travel game that never attempted to make a competent time travel system in the first place.
Not to mention... You can't be bringing in the old "PSX graphics > SNES graphics" argument? Storywise you can't actually argue that a dissonant discombobulation of a million NPCs, one mute blue haired island dork and his annoying australian accented proanna sidekick that are awkwardly welded to the superior story (thus denoting it's sequel status) is better than a simply fun story with a million possible ways to play the game, simple but likable characters and cartoony charm with sharp animation.
Also, the Nu in CT actually made sense. They were a part of the world and the story. Starky was a chibi alien with a UFO that shot "PEW PEW" lasers.
I mostly don't like CC because it's so wildly different from CT. I usually applaud creators for bringing something new into an old series, but CT didn't need such a drastic shift in gameplay for its second game. Because it's so unique it's easy to see the game was a bunch of inventive takes on the JRPG, but that's a gamble, so in order to compensate for the game possibly sucking they called it a sequel to CT, something they knew would sell. But CT was already inventive, and it's mechanics could've been expanded upon, but they never were. It's like if CC was a sequel to Secret of Mana instead, people would've been pissed (though, at least Seiken matches the style and multiple character mechanics of CC better.)
The correlations are few and far between. It's all based around three things,
-Serge and the Chrono Trigger
-Kidd and Lucca
-Umm... Maybe the Frozen Flame
-Kidd and Lucca
-Umm... Maybe the Frozen Flame
The fact that the storytellers avoid any references to CT for so long really pisses me off. I'm obviously playing the game to know what happened next after CT and I don't get anything for hours of gametime. If it wasn't a sequel to CT it would be a better RPG in my opinion, because it doesn't have to cater to what CT was. It could've been its own thing, but instead it's that CT sequel that some people hate and some people love.
I hate sounding like the stupid fan who dislikes the sequel to something because it was done by someone else, but CC really doesn't work well at what it was aiming to do (be a sequel to CT.) Hell, FFX is different from FFIV, but at least they have congruent gameplay elements.
Yeah the dungeons were classy too and I liked em. I also enjoyed not seeing Akira Toriyama's style (it was nice but it honestly looks a tad immature).
and yeah starky was in my party at all times <3
and ixis, I meant art wise as "graphically". The attention to detail in the art was surpassed in CC imo.
As for the time travel, again, the game was trying not to be a carbon copy of the original.
I dont feel like typing another long drawn out reason why CC is an amazing game. Also:
But yeah, I see why you might not like it and that's cool. Its still one of my favorite RPGs (next to FF6 which is the best rpg of all time) though.
I lol'd really loud when I read that :x I remember fighting Dario (i think) on the island and he pulled that bullshit alot so it was hard to kill him with elements.
and yeah starky was in my party at all times <3
and ixis, I meant art wise as "graphically". The attention to detail in the art was surpassed in CC imo.
As for the time travel, again, the game was trying not to be a carbon copy of the original.
I dont feel like typing another long drawn out reason why CC is an amazing game. Also:
It explained about EVERYTHING that happened after CT; the fall of the guardia empire, how chrono, marle and lucca died, lavos re-occuring, about schala and magus (who was originally Gil before editors changed it)
But yeah, I see why you might not like it and that's cool. Its still one of my favorite RPGs (next to FF6 which is the best rpg of all time) though.
I lol'd really loud when I read that :x I remember fighting Dario (i think) on the island and he pulled that bullshit alot so it was hard to kill him with elements.
The only major arrangements were the victory theme and the world map theme??? You mean to tell me you cant remember any of the music whatsoever. Im sorry, but this I just dont get and dont agree with.
The music was very well composed with all sorts of re-occuring motifs. Hell, Mitsuda used a guitar as his percussion in most of his tunes (if that's not fucking cool then I dont know what is.)
This soundtrack is really amazingly put together and just shows how good of a composer Mitsuda is. I SERIOUSLY dont see why you see it as just "competant", but oh well....