Religion, what do you think?

[Velocir_X]

What would the world be like without religion? Laws and consequences the same, just with the religion part taken out.

would it be chaos, anarchy, or would we get along better?

The fighting in iraq stemmed from the muslim religion and how killing "infidels" earns you a harem of virgins. how many people died in the twin towers incident over some religious kook thinking that they get to have 72 virgins - which only lasts so long, if you think about it.

In all honesty, when you get to the roots of human nature, i think religion has stemmed a major amount of conflicts. Even in ancient times with gods like Zeus and Posiedon (sp?), religion played a major role in human-to-human conflicts.
Religion answers questions, but maybe these questions weren't meant to be answered.

In my ideal world, no religion would be present.

just my 2 cents.

Gotta agree with you...
But then again, I don't think you need to be a religious kook to see the appeal in 72 virgins :fap:

However, I doubt if humans would fare any better without religion...
I mean it was originally designed to make life better
Look at this dude: jerome_denis
But we're humans we can spark wars over anything..
Then again you do have a point when you say that religion is a major conflict starter...
God is apparently an awfly powerful motivator....

Heh, heh as for "questions answered" Science has already answered almost all the questions religion was meant to answer in a more rational way - and I don't see it sparking wars...

 

[QuantumMindGames]

Gotta agree with you...
But then again, I don't think you need to be a religious kook to see the appeal in 72 virgins :fap:

However, I doubt if humans would fare any better without religion...
I mean it was originally designed to make life better
Look at this dude: jerome_denis
But we're humans we can spark wars over anything..
Then again you do have a point when you say that religion is a major conflict starter...
God is apparently an awfly powerful motivator....

Heh, heh as for "questions answered" Science has already answered almost all the questions religion was meant to answer in a more rational way - and I don't see it sparking wars...

i call them kooks because they are willing to blow themselves up and mass murder innocent people just so they can have 72 first-timers. First time doesn't stay very long. especially when you spend the rest of eternity there (or so we think). No matter how you look at that, that's just idiotic.
Not to mention the nagging from 72 different women >.>

And while i doubt we would have universal peace without religion, if all we had were laws (which i know a majority of them reflect the bible's morals), I doubt we would fight as much as we do.


Oh, and go up to a hard-core bible-thumper and tell them that science is right and he believes in the wrong things. Conflicts will arise. Science has a large part in conflicts with religion, actually. Do you like people trying to convert you to their religion (assuming you are atheist and take science's side)? Or do you get annoyed, even angry if they refuse to stop? Arguing over if religion is correct is basically saying science is correct and religion is wrong. Example: this entire thread.

 

[Velocir_X]

And while i doubt we would have universal peace without religion, if all we had were laws (which i know a majority of them reflect the bible's morals), I doubt we would fight as much as we do.

I Dunno, there's always going to be curroption in the police force and those who think that laws are not for them...

Oh, and go up to a hard-core bible-thumper and tell them that science is right and he believes in the wrong things. Conflicts will arise. Science has a large part in conflicts with religion, actually. Do you like people trying to convert you to their religion (assuming you are atheist and take science's side)? Or do you get annoyed, even angry if they refuse to stop? Arguing over if religion is correct is basically saying science is correct and religion is wrong. Example: this entire thread.

Yeah, you have a point there, I get pwned for being atheist all the time...

 

[Venetia]

atheists who balk christians because they should "believe in science" are exactly the same as bible-thumpers trying to convert atheists.

people trying to persuade other people to think like they do.

everyones the fuckin same, we all just wear different color hats

 

[QuantumMindGames]

everyones the fuckin same, we all just wear different color hats

nicely put, venetia.


which brings me to the original point i posted ages ago in this thread: its just your perspective.

 

[Incognitus]

atheists who balk christians because they should "believe in science" are exactly the same as bible-thumpers trying to convert atheists.

No they're not. Science is about objective observations of the outside world. It's 2+2=4. Religion is variable, immutable, and debatable.

everyones the fuckin same, we all just wear different color hats

My hat is better than your hat.

 

[Venetia]

trying to convert people is trying to convert people it doesnt matter what ideaset you are usingggggggggggggg

 

[Velocir_X]

It pisses people off all the same...

 

[Ellie]

It depends what your motives are for converting them.

"Stop following your bible because it is telling you to hate me because I am x and y, and you are using that to attack me and cause my life to be pretty shitty"

Is different to

"Stop following your bible because my god dellusion book is much better and I believe in it more than your bible".


But that's sortof a different case entirely, I guess, since it is more to do with how x person is interpreting their religion and the person themself.


N.B.
I should point out that I have used a horrible example there and I could easily have substituted the following to also get my point across:

"Stop following your god dellusion book because you are using it as an excuse to hate my religion and are basically causing my life to be terrible because of it"

Is different to

"Stop following your god dellusion book because my bible is better".

 

[Venetia]

your 1st example isnt an example of trying to convert someone its of someone trying to defend their own beliefs

this is converting

christian:
"hey if you dont believe in god your going to hell and you are a bad person and a sinner so you should follow my ways and think like i do or else you'll be a terrible moral-less person"

atheist:
"hey if you believe in god your a moron because science is where it's at and when you die your rotting in the ground so you should follow my ways and think like i do or else your a retard"

same.

both are demanding that you take a leap of faith and change to the way they believe.

and yes, atheism is a leap of faith.

you cannot ascertain what happens after death. "science" is not a crutch. you can actually believe in both religion AND science, kids, because there ain't any fucking legit "science" out there proving or disproving the substance of the afterlife

dont let people tell you what and what not to believe. using hell or ignorance as a punishment for being different is not a threat anyone can accurately deliver on. explore, and make your own.

 

[Diaforetikos]

That is what we call Fake Stereotype Believers. Trying to convert you and tell you your ideas are wrong and your gonna be destined to hell if you don't change your ways. The fake people who walk around trying to ignore the truth, even when it hits them in the head or enters their ears. They act like they don't sin. They act like a pastor isn't human. They think they are better than you. Any talk of sinning to them freaks them out. The people you can tell aren't being real with you. Those are the people that give many religions their negative views.

But, then again, who am I to judge?

 

[Eddie]

First thing I wish to make clear that most people need to understand is this:

Religion is MAN's attempt to reach God.

Religion is an institution designed by man, whether it is true or false, right, wrong or indifferent. Because of the changes in human cultures and civilization... most religions have evolved quite a bit since the time of their foundations.

I think the best example of a religion that has changed the least, would be Judaism. I mean... man, these people have been doing this stuff for nearly four thousand years! (if not longer). I work at a catering company that did a Jewish feast at a synagogue, and while I am not at all religious, I did find it to be a pleasant experience. It also expanded my knowledge of the Jewish religion.

I however was raised a christian, and I can tell you that many of the churches out their twist the teachings of the bible in to other things. Many people interpret the bible very differently, just like many people interpret the Koran very differently than others.

Where I draw the line for myself is this: All religions attest that their book is the word of god. The Bible... the Torah... the Koran. You name it. All of them, however, were made by man, and this is where I can not credit them fully... or... perhaps I shouldn't say that...

This is where my knowledge ends, because I simply do not know what happened thousands of years ago, and have no way of separating fact from myth.

This is where I HATE Religion:

How is it that you control people? By instilling fear in to them.

Hitler did so the german populous... and thus... one small nation was capable of killing more than six million jews. The Gihadists kill others at the expense of their own lives simply because they believe it will take them to paradise... and if they don't do what they believe is the word of god, they will burn in hell. This is the fundamentalism of Terrorism. Likewise, christian supremeists are just as at fault, having bombed abortion clinics and gay clubs. Really, it seems like the only people to mind their own business are the Jewish people... and ironically, the whole world hates them.

But I'm kind of getting off topic. The point I am trying to make, men can warp anything to their own benefit, and religion is a powerful way of doing so. The Crusades is a prime example. 9-11 as well.

Religion is very capable of offering great moral principles and instilling good values, but at the same time, religion is capable of being the most evil thing on the face of the world.

As for myself, I believe this:

I believe that the fact that humans are able to love, and reason, and most importantly, decipher between themselves the difference between good and evil, speaks that there may in fact be a "higher" power out there. I worship God, and the greatest gift he has given us. Love. I don't know what God's name is. Allah or Jehova. I don't know if he had a son named Jesus through a virgin woman Mary. I DONT KNOW. And I'm fine with saying that. I don't detest the possibilities that any of those are true, but rather I worry about the more important things in life. Not where I came from... or the reason of my existence, but my cause of life... my future before me.

The past is just that... the past. I think if there is a God, he wouldn't condone people fighting over who was their creator and why they exist. I think he would want us to live our lives with prosperity and a common love for the human soul and a respect towards life and the life of others.

To put short... How were we created?

Pardon my french... by why the fuck does it matter? We are here... we exist... now live and let live.

 

[Velocir_X]

but why the fuck does it matter? We are here... we exist... now live and let live.

Well said - this is something everyone should take to heart...

 

[Fire and Ice]

Religion religion religion...

Religion is nothing more than educated guesses to advance our spirituality, gone wrong.

Christianity is flawed in many, many ways.

As is every other religion, as well as almost everything you will ever hear and see.

Everything is infinite.

People say you can't have a concept of infinity. I disagree. You can't have a concept on the lack of infinity thereof.

I think the world always was. No big bang, no creation, no nothing. As far as spirituality goes, the fact that you have a conscience points to the fact that you have a soul. It's just... natural.

We, being the stupid humans that we are, ask too many questions. Just open your eyes at what's in front of you. Everything is evident. We aren't searching for anything. We were tricked into thinking that the meaning of life is some sort of hidden mystery. It's not. It's right in front of your eyes every moment you live. Until you realize that, you have a lot of growing to do.

Also thought I'd point out to you atheists- you're probably just as closed-minded and flawed in your way of thinking as christians are.

Open your minds. Science isn't always right.

Look at evolution. There are some serious dopey flaws in evolution. Evolution as a whole is taught as a fact and the general public as learned to accept it. So all and all, both science and religion are corrupt.

I grew up in a Christian home. I neglected my so-called "Faith" after hitting a serious tumble involving pre-destination and god sending everyone to hell before he even created them. From that point on... I have changed a lot. I've thoroughly researched almost every religion and questionable science and questioned everything until I realized that the answer is already there. Just sit down, erase all of your beliefs, and think what makes the most sense, based on just you breathing and living and perceiving life.

 

[Velocir_X]

I grew up in a Christian home. I neglected my so-called "Faith" after hitting a serious tumble involving pre-destination and god sending everyone to hell before he even created them. From that point on... I have changed a lot. I've thoroughly researched almost every religion and questionable science and questioned everything until I realized that the answer is already there. Just sit down, erase all of your beliefs, and think what makes the most sense, based on just you breathing and living and perceiving life.

Lol dude, all you have left to do is t grow fat and call yourself the new Buddha
(no offense intended Buddha means the enlightened one)

Nah but on to serious matters, you have a point there - we are flawed...
But I'd like to defend science and my fellow atheists...
You say:

erase all of your beliefs, and think what makes the most sense, based on just you breathing and living and perceiving life.

That is science - its based purely on observations of living breathing life - 2+2=4 :P

 

[Fire and Ice]

2+2=4 is mathematics.

I'm saying "SCIENCE" is flawed. Science being, the widely accepted scientific "facts". There are so many theories that are taken as facts that are truly flawed.

 

[Velocir_X]

2+2=4 is mathematics.

I'm saying "SCIENCE" is flawed. Science being, the widely accepted scientific "facts". There are so many theories that are taken as facts that are truly flawed.

My friend mathematics is used to describe scientific observations - therefore in such a philisophical standpoint they are one and the same - try to go into phisics without calculus will ya?
As for these flawed facts "facts" many of them are misinterpritations by the public:
The Big Bang - simply states that the universe came from a central point and is based on the fact that the universe is expanding, so they just reverse that - also it was suggested by CATHOLIC PRIEST!
Evolution - simply states that through natural selection (survival of the fittest) species will adapt to the environment (you do this when you move lol, there's your proof) and that in consequence will produce new species over time (look at dog breeding :P) its based on genetic evidence, phisical evidence such as vestigial organs and exstensive observation - it does not say humans evolved from monkeys

 

[Ellie]

Math is used in science, but math is not science.

Math doesn't have to be proven, and is not debatable. Math is neither right or wrong. Math just happens, and will always happen.

1 + 2 = 3

Will always be 1 + 2 = 3.

There's nothing to prove and there's nothing to disprove.

Science is completely different to math in that science is the study of how and why things happen etc, it is based on theory and assumed fact (i.e. fact by lack of reasonable doubt rather than fact by fact).

Science can and will always change. Math cannot change.

 

[Phoenix]

From a logical point of view, Agnosticism is the only logical belief as we have no concrete proof on this matter and stating we don't know is the only "true" answer"\.

 

[bacon]

What would the world be like without religion? Laws and consequences the same, just with the religion part taken out.

would it be chaos, anarchy, or would we get along better?

The fighting in iraq stemmed from the muslim religion and how killing "infidels" earns you a harem of virgins. how many people died in the twin towers incident over some religious kook thinking that they get to have 72 virgins - which only lasts so long, if you think about it.

In all honesty, when you get to the roots of human nature, i think religion has stemmed a major amount of conflicts. Even in ancient times with gods like Zeus and Posiedon (sp?), religion played a major role in human-to-human conflicts.
Religion answers questions, but maybe these questions weren't meant to be answered.

In my ideal world, no religion would be present.

just my 2 cents.

Religion to me is a double sided sword. Sure, it brings conflict, war, et al. but it also brings hope, joy, and salvation to people's lives. Religion was created to unite people. How do you think humans got together into their colinies back in the early days. The colonies eventual formed cities. Sure other factors are involved, but what made people unite with eachother and be happy about it is religion. Sure we all have our different religions, I include atheism a religion too by the way, but in the end, they all do the same things. It unites us. Its our descision to make the right choices, and many people are blinded by that. Its not religions fault that we get into wars, its our fault and its the people who are too blind and stupid to understand that religion ultimately does not play a part in your descision making.

~im atheist by the way