Religion, what do you think?

[Gray]

Regardless, people are still dying in Ireland & Northern Ireland because they're ethier Prodestant or not.

That is not the religion's fault, it is the people's fault. I doubt that there is something in the bible, Quran or Torah or anything that says "Go kill people that are not of your religion." That is pointless.

Hence why I said religion is a tool.

 

[Incognitus]

I doubt that there is something in the bible, Quran or Torah or anything that says "Go kill people that are not of your religion." That is pointless.

Hmmm.... now that you mention it....



You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13

Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20

Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11

Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5

 

[Zelfouz]

dogg the very concept of faith excludes the presence of logic or proof. if you have proof then you're not following a faith, you're just seeing what's readily apparent.

honestly I am kind of :|ing at you right now because I thought people had enough brains in their heads by this point to stop bringing up lack of proof in a religious context. there are good arguments to be made in either direction, but this isn't one of them.

This is nonsense. Relgion makes definite verifiable claims that can be tested. For example, the bible says that believers should be able to cast out demons, cure the sick, handle poisonous snakes, and drink any poison without harm. These are specific claims about how things operate that can be tested experimentally and shown that they aren't true.

Your argument that proof is separate from faith contradicts the fact that most religions claim that proof should be readily apparent.

 

[Love]

I doubt that there is something in the bible, Quran or Torah or anything that says "Go kill people that are not of your religion." That is pointless.

Hmmm.... now that you mention it....



You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13

Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20

Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11

Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5

.... .... ....

Remind me next time not to speak of something I do not know.

Hell, what is this? Let me quote something of Quran:

And God doesn't forbid you from treating non-believers who didn't hurt you nicely.

In my religion, we don't care for others not following our religion. Sure, we may ask them to, but if they refuse, we don't "kill" them.

 

[Zelfouz]

Hell, what is this? Let me quote something of Quran:

And God doesn't forbid you from treating non-believers who didn't hurt you nicely.

In my religion, we don't care for others not following our religion. Sure, we may ask them to, but if they refuse, we don't "kill" them.

Hey, lets look at some other quotations!

From the Quran,

4:89 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,

Don't be friends with disbelievers. If they start to believe, and then stop believing again, hunt them down and kill them

5:33 The Punishment for those who oppose Allah and his messenger is : Execution or Crucifixion or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides or exile from the land

Execute, crucify, or maim non-muslims.

3:10 (On that Day) neither the riches nor the progeny of those who disbelieve will aught avail them with Allah. They will be fuel for Fire.

In the end, the non-believers will all burn.

9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Make war with and kill everyone who believes differently from you. Unless, of course, they convert to Islam.

5:51 O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.

Don't be friends with Jews or Christians. If you do, you're one of them.

 

[Love]

Hell, what is this? Let me quote something of Quran:

And God doesn't forbid you from treating non-believers who didn't hurt you nicely.

In my religion, we don't care for others not following our religion. Sure, we may ask them to, but if they refuse, we don't "kill" them.

Hey, lets look at some other quotations!

From the Quran,

4:89 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,

Don't be friends with disbelievers. If they start to believe, and then stop believing again, hunt them down and kill them

5:33 The Punishment for those who oppose Allah and his messenger is : Execution or Crucifixion or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides or exile from the land

Execute, crucify, or maim non-muslims.

3:10 (On that Day) neither the riches nor the progeny of those who disbelieve will aught avail them with Allah. They will be fuel for Fire.

In the end, the non-believers will all burn.

9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Make war with and kill everyone who believes differently from you. Unless, of course, they convert to Islam.

5:51 O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.

Don't be friends with Jews or Christians. If you do, you're one of them.

lol Let me explain this:

First one: That is not the meaning. Yes, in my religion, we kill those who enter our religion then TURN BACK. But hey, I believe Christianity do this, too. If you just don't want to enter, don't but don't enter and then turn back. And we are allowed to be friends with disbelievers.

Second one: I don't remember this one and it isn't true because we don't believe in crucifixion at all.

Third one: Now hey, hey, hey. Yes, that is true that we believe in that but don't ALL religions say that?

Fourth one: That is absolutely not true. We make war with only those who attack us, but not with those who leave us alone and not hurt us.

Fifth one: The meaning of this verse is that we shouldn't make christians or jews responsible on us. We are allowed, however, to befriend them.

You wouldn't know more than me, now would you? :smile:

 

[zeroblaze1992]

Okay let me join in this topic..

4:89 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,

this verse explain to punish the one that join muslim and get out from it BECAUSE they have reason to make everyone in the muslim disbelieve to the religion. It only serve for the one that have this reason not everyone.

hey... the verse 5:33 that written by Zelfouz is not complete..
hey Zelfouz please refrain to check the verse before putting it as a source..

the right verse
5:33 The Punishment for those who oppose Allah and his messenger is : Execution or Crucifixion or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides or exile from the land And that serve as humiliation from them in earth and in the end they will have the big torture.

okay it explain that all of this thing is for the one that OPPOSE MUSLIM not for the one that non-muslims. as long as they not interfere with our religion we are forbid to do something like that...

okay the verse 3:10 serve as bad message, a warning to the one that not believe..
and we muslim believe that this will be true but we are not afraid becuase we believe..

okay 9:5
this surah is named MERCY
serve as good news for the one that have join Islam..Please read all of the verse of surah before makin any statement..
the one that called "them" in this verse is the person that BAD not to the one that not believe...
but if they are learn o.'s lesson. mercy them..

verse 5:51 this translation is not right..
Zelfouz, where you get this from?

the right translation :

[5] O ye who believe, Take not Jes and the Christians as a LEADERS; Part of them is LEADERS for the part of other. He among you who pick them as leader is one of them.. Allah not give guide to wrongdoing folk..

we have wrong translation here..
we are allowed to be friend with Jews and Christians. But if we are more believe them as a leader than our brother then our mind must be wrong isn't it?
However exception will apply in some kind of situations..

well the truth is right now Im Muslim and my girlfriend is Christians so?is not that God will tell you to mercilessly kill someone that not in the same believe...

sorry for the grammar mistakes okay...

 

[Love]

Ahh zeroblaze said everything I really needed to say. Thanks, zero. ^^

 

[Zelfouz]

First one: That is not the meaning. Yes, in my religion, we kill those who enter our religion then TURN BACK. But hey, I believe Christianity do this, too. If you just don't want to enter, don't but don't enter and then turn back. And we are allowed to be friends with disbelievers.

This is an issue with religion in general. It repulses me that anyone would kill or exile another person for changing their mind about anything. In a rational society, this is unacceptable.

Second one: I don't remember this one and it isn't true because we don't believe in crucifixion at all.

Fair enough.

Third one: Now hey, hey, hey. Yes, that is true that we believe in that but don't ALL religions say that?

They do, and they're all extremely disturbing because of it. I have issues with people being taught to take pleasure at the eternal damnation of their fellow human beings.

Fourth one: That is absolutely not true. We make war with only those who attack us, but not with those who leave us alone and not hurt us.

Fifth one: The meaning of this verse is that we shouldn't make christians or jews responsible on us. We are allowed, however, to befriend them.

Okay.

You wouldn't know more than me, now would you? :smile:

Probably not, but I can still point out things that seem brutal to me and get your thoughts.

 

[Incognitus]

I didn't pull any quotes from the Koran because I couldn't find any written in a nice congruent style - not because of any bias. And because I was sooo lazy, I thought it would be easier to sit back and watch other people produce them :devil:

But they all serve to disprove Love original assertion that they aren't there, eh?

 

[zeroblaze1992]

Yap..
you're welcome..

and for any member please don't make any non-fact statement in here..
seriously.. it will make religion sounds so bad..
religion serve as a way for us to live our life..
okay..

 

[Gen0cide_]

Hello all, first post!
(I'm not buying RM till the weekend, so I figured I'd stay in the general forums till then to see what the communities like.)

First, my religion, I'm atheist agnostic mix. I am mainly atheistic, because I think everything happens for a reason like cause and effect, but that's where my agnostic side sort of butts in. The big bang theory cant have been the first cause, It had to have happened for a reason, that reason would to some be god, or to others be something else, like another universe, or a cycle. Idk what it was tbh, but that's as far as my questions go.

And for Barcodes (not to be rude, but I don't know what else to call you lol) question about devils.

I read somewhere recently that satan was latin or some other old language for opposition or enemy. If so then the whole idea of there being a "devil" or anti-god seems to me like a subversion of the power religion has over people to get them to do something, or "demonize" someone else. A bit like Arianism (Nazis), Terrorism (Bush and co) if you've seem part two of Zeitgeist or are clued in.

 

[Love]

Speaking of the devil, my religion says that the devil was once an angel. But when God ordered him to obey him and guard the humans, he refused. God then almost made him enter hell but the devil asked him not to, until Resurrection Day, that is. In the meantime, the devil will try to make as much as possible of humans do wrong acts.

Then again, it's only my belief and what my religion says.

 

[Gen0cide_]

Speaking of the devil, my religion says that the devil was once an angel. But when God ordered him to obey him and guard the humans, he refused. God then almost made him enter hell but the devil asked him not to, until Resurrection Day, that is. In the meantime, the devil will try to make as much as possible of humans do wrong acts.

Then again, it's only my belief and what my religion says.

Do you believe in this religion of yours, because the way you say it, you don't seem too convinced. (You say, thats what my religion says, and most religious folks say that's what I believe.)

 

[Love]

In a way, yes, I truly believe in my religion. I can't lie and say that I am completely agreeing 100% with my religion in everything, as there are some points that I am not very convinced with. But for most parts, I believe in it enough to be in it.

 

[Velocir_X]

|_ (_) |_ @ Barcode - (did you know its for a pack of condoms
His name is Arbiter or as we call him on IRC blink_

Anyway, Arbiter I think of devils as much as I think of gods - otherwise known as zip

 

[QuantumMindGames]

I'll say here what I posted in the metaphysics post, as it fits quite well:

This is probably yet another question that will be forever worried about and time wasted upon that can never be properly answered in man's existence.


The question of which religion, if any, holds truth, it's something man will dwell on and waste his time trying to figure out instead of living life while he has a chance.


I say I do not wish to know the answer to this. And I will not contemplate how I came to be, or where I will be going after I die. I will live life one step at a time and enjoy the time I have.

If you need something to build your morals and ethics upon, then pick something and leave it at that, don't worry about something nobody can give a proper answer to. Personally, I base my morals and ethics upon the christian faith and buddhism, but I do not consider myself either of those. More or less, I base it on things that will land me in trouble in life if ignored, such as the laws of the country, and the rules of where I am.


Basically, it's just a question to me, not a problem that needs to be solved.

If you know right from wrong and know how to choose what is right more often than not, then what more must you require to live a full life? Isn't wanting more than you need, greed?

 

[Guest]

;D

 

[QuantumMindGames]

Adventures, sex, drugs, and rock'n'roll is the way for a full life.

-drugs for me.
I've seen the consequences of drug abuse first-hand, I stay far away from those. Never even took a drag from a cigarette let alone anything more. Don't need to, though. I'm happy how I am, even with bipolar complicating my life.

otherwise, i agree :thumb:

 

[Xaixis]

Herm... I usually love these debates. But more recently found out that these debates are extremely pointless since neither side is willing to listen to each other...

Well actually, (and I admit I am being biased), is that the theists usually ignore much evidence and facts presented. And the usual retort has something to do with the bible, or some misconstrued fact or misunderstanding of widely known facts and evidence.

And what I also don't understand is the most recent interest in New Earth Creationism. Even the Catholic Church has publicly said that they accept modern-day discoveries such as evolution.

I was once on the theist side and remember how stead-fast I was in my arguments and despite all the information I was told and despite everything I was being told, I pretty much ignored it all and quoted the bible for every argument. I was a mindless tool of "god".

But recently I have started to ask questions, and I decided to start and answer my own questions by myself instead of relying on my priest or the bible. So I started to do some research and found out many interesting things and started to finally question many things that I used to believe in.

Gah :crazy: , I've gone so off-topic, I hate it when I do that. But you should already know what stance I take on religion.