Post What's on Your Mind

[Jason]

Yay I have internet access again! I was originally supposed to be going a week, maybe two tops, without internet after I moved into this house... yeeeaaaah, it's been two months (and a day if we're being exact).

 

[Xilef]

Yay I have internet access again! I was originally supposed to be going a week, maybe two tops, without internet after I moved into this house... yeeeaaaah, it's been two months (and a day if we're being exact).

Potion missed you

 

[Nathaniel3W]

I used to live in Provo, Utah. For some reason, Google made Provo and Salt Lake City some of their top priorities for Google Fiber. I don't think I was there when Google Fiber was ready for use, but my friends say it's amazing. So maybe the bandwidth is good. (I couldn't remember the word bandwidth and I was going to write baud, and then I was going to write throughput. I can't tell if I've spent too much time around electrical engineers or if I'm just old.) Anyway, so long as your computer is connected to Google Fiber, and the Stadia data center is just down the street, you'll do fine. But for the 99% of America (not to mention the rest of the world) that doesn't have that connection, the ping time is going to ruin any fast-reflex games.

But I'll bet that they'll come up with some kind of magic to show input on your screen immediately, even if it doesn't register to the game until later.

 

[Nathaniel3W]

Welcome back Jason. What was the delay all about? Internet company can't keep an appointment?

 

[Byron]

Yay I have internet access again! I was originally supposed to be going a week, maybe two tops, without internet after I moved into this house... yeeeaaaah, it's been two months (and a day if we're being exact).

Potion missed you

Who is Jason?
Jk. Which ISP did you go with?

But I'll bet that they'll come up with some kind of magic to show input on your screen immediately, even if it doesn't register to the game until later.

Well from what I remember isn't this how Overwatches "Favour the shooter" system works? Whatever happens on the shooters screen is what happens in game. Which is why it can seem like you got shot from around the corner sometimes.

 

[Xilef]

Well from what I remember isn't this how Overwatches "Favour the shooter" system works? Whatever happens on the shooters screen is what happens in game. Which is why it can seem like you got shot from around the corner sometimes.

Yah this used to be called "unlagged" back in the early 2000s, it's one of my favourite game techniques and I'd be surprised if I wasn't the one that spent an hour telling you about it.

It's become standard for FPS online games.

The server stores a history of the game state up to N frames, when a player does an action that's considered critical (such as firing a bullet) the latency between that player and the server is used to look up in those stored frames what point in history the player is actually in on their end of the connection. If their lag is between states, then the server interpolates between them to create a fake state that estimates in-between frames.
So if I have a ping of 100ms then the server looks back to see what the state was 100ms ago (because that is guaranteed to be the state I was looking at when I shot my bullet) and it fires the bullet inside that state in history - all the players in an FPS game are effectively time travellers shooting at past-snapshots of each other with the goal of killing them in the past to kill them in the future.

This guarantees that every bullet shot across planet Earth, as long as your ping is within the N frames threshold, will take exactly the effect that the player sees on their client.

In cases where you get shot around corners - if you were to freeze time then you'd find that the enemy really did shoot you before you got around the corner. Bullets are more important than movement, so the shooter always wins.

What this boils down to is; you need to actually hit enemies if you want to do damage, and if you get shot then it really is because they shot first. No one player has an advantage over another, however you may still see weird things happen and if you don't know how this system works you'll say "this is bullshit!" when in reality it's a level, very fair playing field.


All that said, client-side prediction can create some issues. If your client is heavily predicting frames (poor connection to server, maybe you're on WiFi) then you're more likely to be shooting at a false lerp'd player - as your client hasn't received latest updates so it is generating simulated updates based on previous frames. In these cases, if you shoot an enemy in this circumstance the server may respond "hang on, when you fired that bullet the enemy weren't there, so therefore you hit nothing".
In Source engine this is made very obvious with client-side blood splatters - the client will happily splat out blood on the walls and floor as if you hit the enemy, but when that bullet travels back in time to the server's history the server may still say "your client made up that simulated frame, the bullet hit nothing" and then you shout "Bullshit! The blood splattered everywhere!".

So a bad connection can still put you at a disadvantage. Bad connection is packet loss/rate inconsistency, it's not ping (which is time between you and server, AKA how far into the past your client's uninterpolated state is).

EDIT: Stadia won't benefit from this system at all. It would mean Google would need to simulate a few hundred copies of the same game, all with the exact same state, only each on is 1 frame in the past compared to the other. And Google would need to modify the future game states as critical actions occur. That would require an insane amount of computer power for a single player and it would require access to modifying the game's core run-time to change the states around. It would also need a game that can be reliably simulated - stuff like GPU particles are not reliably simulated so these would be an utter mess.

I considered this kind of network technique for emulators, I was doing a small bit of research into the idea not too long ago. The thing is; emulators do store and restore state, so being able to look into the past and figure out the action the player took is easy. The hard part is quickly simulating the future frames of the current state. And then doing that for 4 players on a SNES game.

The fighting game scene has had some pretty good network technologies come from it. I think Skull Girls had a famous network engine that got used in a few other projects. Not sure how they work, pretty sure it's based on actions rather than button inputs (Ryu used "hadouken", rather than Ryu rolls the joystick scroll N1..3 frames and hit punch at N+4 frame). That kind of thing can probably be unlagged, also (a punch or using a special move is a critical action).

 

[Ellie]

 

[Hybrida]

A) A lot of bodyguards.
B) Someone is about to get "Boo-cockeyed".
C) That's not a girl because anime.
D) 32 bits of workout.
E) Where the women at?
F) I'm not 18 yet, but I can keep a secret.
G) Hybrida is "Awe-tistic".
H) Too much meat in one location....

 

[Fayte]

How do my overseas peeps feel about that Huwei phones?

 

[Juan J. Sánchez]

Hey, y'all. Just came by to say I'm still alive.

 

[coyotecraft]

If anyone's got a need for art commissions, PM me. I need money.
I should have replaced my laptop like 2 years ago. I'm kinda glad I held off. Screen and HD size is pretty standard now.

 

[Hybrida]

How do my overseas peeps feel about that Huwei phones?

Rumored to have malicious background activities/features. I had their phone app and computer program. I dunno what to believe.

Hey, y'all. Just came by to say I'm still alive.

Great. We can't really afford to lose anyone. I just hope it's not a return post just to leave again for 90 days or 17 months. It's very common lately. LOL.

:cheers:

 

[Nathaniel3W]

If anyone's got a need for art commissions, PM me. I need money.
I should have replaced my laptop like 2 years ago. I'm kinda glad I held off. Screen and HD size is pretty standard now.

Do you have a portfolio? I might be looking for some more art soon, and I also recommend artists to other devs.

 

[coyotecraft]

Since I recently deleted my photobucket account I don't have any available collections to show off. Usually I'd respond to a request for specific things, so like "tilesets? Yeah, I can do tilesets. See?"
But nobody ever wants a tileset. What they REALLY want is a boat or a building with all the bells and whistles pre-assembled. They want maps not Keyword: Tiles. Like, stone arches or Egyptian pillars. I'm not responsible for the floor plans or level design.

But I don't know what you want. Pixels? Portraits? Promotional? *cough* Porn?

 

[Xilef]

Having a collection to show off would be handy for anyone looking for artwork.

I am surprised that people confuse mapping with tilesets, they're pretty distinct things - unless what people want are custom single set-pieces to add to their current tileset, which sounds like something I expect many people want as they don't want to pay for the extra work that they imagine an entire, new tileset would cost.

I will be needing a lot of pixel resources done eventually (tilesets, for one) - but will be crossing that bridge when it becomes more sensible to do so. I want to try and find a design language style for the game before finding someone who'd want to put their own flair into that. I hate situations where artists are being used as "pencils" to draw exactly what's expected, at the same time I think it's utterly useless to just say "give me anything because we have no specific style", so I currently believe the best option is to describe a style and then let an artist study the style and then experiment with it for themselves so that they can produce content without being in the dark and not have to deal with having to spend a few days figuring out what is needed.

 

[coyotecraft]

I don't think they're confusing the two. Just that they don't think about the assembly required. Or even how they're going to utilize space. There's "drawing something" and there's "designing something". Designing takes more thought.

I don't mind being told what to draw. Like, with fanart, the characters are already designed so it goes much faster. Usually people have a player characters already in mind. It's the nameless NPCs that get me. You know, tell me you need npcs for a hospital and I can safely assume that means doctors, patients, nurses. Or a mining town - hard hats and overalls.
But if you tell me to make dwarfs for dwarf town. I'm going to have to play 20 questions with you. Ponchos and Sombreros? Smurf hats? Kilts and bear skins? What kind of dwarfs are these? What's in dwarf town? I can do a simple green tunic if I must but I don't know if that's appropriate.

 

[Byron]

But I don't know what you want. Pixels? Portraits? Promotional? *cough* Porn?

User requirements are always a pain in the glutes. Even within my own team project, it's like "We want this thing so we can design stuff." Then I start making it and they no longer want it next week.
Games, in general, are pretty fluid all the time, which is why Agile exists, but it is annoying the amount of progress that is lost due to shifting/unclear requirements.

Having a collection to show off would be handy for anyone looking for artwork.

A portfolio is always good. I can't wait to start building mine. I'm super happy that my first project is actually good enough to put on it too!
I've seen a lot of bad portfolios though. Make sure you link shit properly and have appropriate categories!

I hate situations where artists are being used as "pencils" to draw exactly what's expected, at the same time I think it's utterly useless to just say "give me anything because we have no specific style".

if you tell me to make dwarfs for dwarf town. I'm going to have to play 20 questions with you. Ponchos and Sombreros? Smurf hats? Kilts and bear skins? What kind of dwarfs are these? What's in dwarf town? I can do a simple green tunic if I must but I don't know if that's appropriate.

Xilef is correct. If you're ever asking for art, you should have references. It makes other peoples jobs so much easier. I also agree that you should have fleshed out characters/areas. This is where something like a design bible would come in handy. If your client is indie it is incredibly hard to have that level of detail since they're doing most of the roles. It's incredibly nice to have designers as a middle man between the artists and programmers. It helps to actually lend depth to the game.

 

[coyotecraft]

I was going to buy a new laptop today, not online. But apparently everything in my town is HP brand. Low spec. And priced higher than what I can order online.

In the mean time I've got my laptop reinforced with tape. Lol. It's just everything around the mouse pad is deteriorating. Everything underneath is cracking. It's like a bump or a heavy wrist will short it out. My double-clicking issue is probably related. I've got tape inside it now too, which is helping.

Everything is backed up. And I'm not too worried about the Hard Drive, I think it's in good condition. Although I've been wary of software issues for the last couple years.

 

[Nathaniel3W]

Coyote, I'll be looking for portraits and sprite sheets. I don't have any specific requirements right now, but I would come up with some specifics when I'm ready to commission some art. I can't afford any right now though because I just paid my composer. With these meager early access sales, I can only afford one contractor at a time.

Really though, put together that portfolio. So long as it isn't full of furry porn, I'd love to take a look at it.

And do you really need a laptop? You get more performance per dollar and longer-life hardware if you build a desktop. Easier to fix and easier to upgrade too.

 

[Xilef]

I always have way more issues with laptops compared to desktops - hardware failure rate on laptops is very high for me. Probably best to always consider a desktop computer and then fall back to looking at laptops if your usage scenario really is incompatible with a computer being stuck in a house. If a laptop is getting beaten up then that's a good indication that it's being lugged around places.