Iteration

[gRaViJa]

Avalo looks weird in a great way. The art is really from a professional level. As said before the world you are creating is rich and believable. Still keeping my eye on this

 

[GiveMeASpicy]

Thank you. One of the most important things to myself and my team is professionalism. Since this game will be sold on the XNA Market (we're building it in the XNA game engine), we want to create a visually stunning game that looks and feels like it was made by professionals. For that reason, we've commissioned artists and musicians who will do the job right.

Our idea of creating the game is Tolkien in nature, in order to create a really immerse gave you have to create a world that will completely take in the player. In order to do that, you have to build a believable world. Garanelle has a complete history, a vast number of races, each with their own designed customs, religions, traditions, and a world with fantasy environments that will draw the player in. In fact, we took down the World section in this thread because we just had too much information, it would have scared people away from reading, lol.

 

[GiveMeASpicy]

Hey guys. Just a quick update.

Added some new concept art to the protagonist sections. These are the rough designs for Ashley and Edmond, just so you guys can get a taste of what they're going to be looking like. The more developed art is being done as we speak, but I hope you guys enjoy the preview.

Added new sections to the main post with some background info about the world the game takes places in, and what's going on in that world right now. Hopefully this will put the plot in a better context. Also added a bit more info on the protagonists' summaries. Check it out, let me know what you guys think. A small warning though, the post is now riddle with spoilers.

 

[Sailerius]

Just took a read through the OP. Here are my thoughts:

- What you have under the Plot section is mostly exposition about the world setting. For most people, reading about the world is boring, especially when they're expecting to get a summary of the plot. I suggest removing all of that content to a new section ("Setting", for example) and rewriting the Plot section to describe what happens in the game.

- That being said, the world setting sounds interesting and unique. Is it sci fi? It's hard finding tiles for sci fi games. Which engine are you making this in?

- The characters all sound interesting and well-fleshed out. It would be nice if you'd describe their personalities, though.

- I like the idea of shifting perspective to show each character's own plot arc. I'm doing something similar in another game of mine.

- I suggest changing the title since "Vagrant Saga" instantly brings Square's "Vagrant Story" to mind.

- The battle system sounds similar to Final Fantasy 13's. Is that intentional?

- Speaking of the battle system, if it's real time with full motion (as it seems at first glance), how are you planning to implement this? Action battle systems aren't easy to code, and having intelligent party member AI will be even more difficult.

 

[GiveMeASpicy]

Thanks for the questions Sailerius, been waiting for someone to ask some.

1. Valid point about the plot section, I never even realized that. I'll get right on fixing that and describing more of the plot. What I was trying to do was since the first half of the game's plot revolves around the character arcs, I wanted to describe that portion of the plot in their own section. But, I will definitely do a more broad, overall description.

2. The world is a bit of a combination between sci-fi and fantasy. While nothing is too overly-sci-fi (so that the art style doesn't clash), there are definitely areas of the world like Mechea which are much more advanced and modern than say an area like Sadeeth or Tama Meth. As for the tiles, all of the art in the game is being commissioned, and we're doing completely original graphics. The game is going to have isometric tiles that are painted in photoshop. The engine is most likely going to be the XNA Game Creator Engine since I prefer to code in C# than Ruby

3. Will definitely add a personality description for each character.

4. Thank you. I thought it'd be an interesting, sort of new take on the way the stories progress.

5. The name is a temporary one. I first started Vagrant Saga about five years ago, and the project ended up getting scrapped. I felt like it'd be nice to re-use the name as a working title while the real name is being thought up. But, rest assured, it is not the official name.

6. That was slightly intentional, yes. While I hope that our system is still unique enough to be set apart, what FFXIII did with their battle system allowed for a really strategic style of game play that we wanted to incorporate. So yes, there is definitely going to be similarities. Does it still seem unique enough to be enjoyable?

7. I'm a little confused about your question on how we implement it? It is going to be an action battle system, real time with full motion. They're not going to be easy to code, but again, we have a professional team that will be doing the programming once the design stage of the game is finished.

 

[Sailerius]

Thanks for the questions Sailerius, been waiting for someone to ask some.

1. Valid point about the plot section, I never even realized that. I'll get right on fixing that and describing more of the plot. What I was trying to do was since the first half of the game's plot revolves around the character arcs, I wanted to describe that portion of the plot in their own section. But, I will definitely do a more broad, overall description.

2. The world is a bit of a combination between sci-fi and fantasy. While nothing is too overly-sci-fi (so that the art style doesn't clash), there are definitely areas of the world like Mechea which are much more advanced and modern than say an area like Sadeeth or Tama Meth. As for the tiles, all of the art in the game is being commissioned, and we're doing completely original graphics. The game is going to have isometric tiles that are painted in photoshop. The engine is most likely going to be the XNA Game Creator Engine since I prefer to code in C# than Ruby

3. Will definitely add a personality description for each character.

4. Thank you. I thought it'd be an interesting, sort of new take on the way the stories progress.

5. The name is a temporary one. I first started Vagrant Saga about five years ago, and the project ended up getting scrapped. I felt like it'd be nice to re-use the name as a working title while the real name is being thought up. But, rest assured, it is not the official name.

6. That was slightly intentional, yes. While I hope that our system is still unique enough to be set apart, what FFXIII did with their battle system allowed for a really strategic style of game play that we wanted to incorporate. So yes, there is definitely going to be similarities. Does it still seem unique enough to be enjoyable?

7. I'm a little confused about your question on how we implement it? It is going to be an action battle system, real time with full motion. They're not going to be easy to code, but again, we have a professional team that will be doing the programming once the design stage of the game is finished.

2. Ah, okay. I was initially under the impression that this was going to be an RM* game. Have fun with XNA; it's a great platform and wonderful coding environment.

6. It's hard to judge how fun a battle system will be from text alone. I suggest starting development by making a battle system prototype and fine-tuning that first. That way you'll have a strong battle system going into the game.

7. Nevermind, I was assuming you were using an RPG Maker. I also didn't know that you had the will/funds to commission team members. That being the case, I expect to see good things out of this project!

 

[GiveMeASpicy]

Thanks for the support Sailerius. Are funds really just comprise of our day jobs, but you'd be surprised how little food the body needs to function, lol. Originally this started as an rmxp project WAY back when, but we decided that XNA would give us a better engine to work with and a better market to sell to.

Updated the first post again. There's now a Setting section, and personality information about each character. There is also a plot setting, although its going to need work. What I have right now sums it up, but probably in the vaguest way possible (which also ends up being the most cliched way possible). We're working on getting a better description.

So, that's it. Love the questions and the feedback, please post more. Let us know what you guys think about the art, the characters, anything.

 

[friend]

Features:
30+ hours of gameplay
100% original painted graphics
100% original soundtrack
Unique in-game systems
Awesomeness(?)

Well, that's pretty much the key info.

Before I comment on anything, whoa there, isn't that a little too ambitious?

I mean its alright to set high goals, but 100% original graphics and 30+ hours of gameplay is something many have set out to do, yet fail miserably, I just want to tell you that you should maybe have a more realistic goal, 10+ hours of gameplay, 50% original content, that is a little too ambitious isn't it?

 

[K.matt]

This is looking nice to me keep up posted

 

[GiveMeASpicy]

@friend: If I were working alone then I would say absolutely. But my team and myself are working with a relatively large team of both artists and programmers who are being paid to create these graphics/music/systems. It will definitely take a while, but as long as there are artists who need work I don't see it problem. Honestly, the 30+ hours is a rough estimate of how long it'll be, but it could very easily end up being shorter. There's not going to be any fluff in the script or in the game, so we'll see how long it ends up being. I don't expect it to be any shorter than at least 15 hours though. With that answered I'd love to hear your feedback on the rest of the game.

@K.matt: Thanks for the support, and I'll keep you updated.

 

[friend]

I'm going to read on soon, but if you're managing a team its not going to be easy, team members quitting, problems with each other etc.

 

[GiveMeASpicy]

Oh I know, I've been working on this project since last summer, and since then I've had an entire team fall through on me. I understand how much work its going to be.

 

[friend]

Are you gonna set up milestones? Perhaps just go for a 50% custom and release a Release Candidate etc., works seems much more easier this way.

 

[GiveMeASpicy]

Yes' we're definitely going to have certain miles stones. For now, our biggest one is the completion of the script, and of end of initial artist design phase. That includes the character designs, environment designs, etc. But, it seems like a large portion of our funding just got scrapped, so that's going to take even longer now. But, we're still working on it, slowly but surely.

 

[GiveMeASpicy]

Hey guys. Found a way to make up for the funding that we'd lost, at least for now, so design is still progressing along. Just added updated concept art of Ashley and Edmond, and a new pieces to introduce you guys to Watti. Right now this is her nude design, she still doesn't have her clothing yet. But, it'll give you an idea of what the Sadeeth look like.

Also, been working on the script, and I'm going to start really fleshing out the battle system/character development mechanics. Keep your eyes peeled for more info coming up on the thread.

Our last big update, we have a website being designed as we speak. It's coming along really nicely, and I think you guys are really going to like it. Plus, its going to give us some great exposure.

Thats about it for now guys. Let me know what you think of the new art.

Edit: Oh, and friend, still would love to know what you think about the game overall.

 

[friend]

Sorry man I was too busy with other things.

Will let you know... now I guess, I'm going to force myself to read through this.

EDIT: Right, its here

Spoiler

First off, I'm not really a fan of playing as a few characters in a game, unless its like Seiken Densetsu 3 style where you can choose between people, because I really want to establish a "bond" with the character, or at least know it well, it's really hard to "bond" with a character if you keep on switching back and forth.

The plot is so-so, does not really spell too much "CLICHE CLICHE CLICHE" all over the place, but typical nonetheless. I need more information before commenting more about the plot though.

On towards characters, but I gotta say first is that its quite nice you have a 31 year old protagonist, a thing missing in quite alot of games.

However, if the protagonist is going to be socially estranged, PLEASE PLEASE don't let him be like Squall or Cloud, getting emo all day long. His background is also quite typical, and so is him being determined. I need more flaws though, his flaw being "extreme obsession of truth" doesn't really seem much of a flaw to me, it seems like he's all "GOOD AND TRUTH AND GLORY THAT NEVER GIVES UP." type of character

Ashley seems like a typical character to me. Then we also have THAT strange old guy ( Avalokrishna)
We also have an exiled guy, nothing too unique here, but I don't see so much "CLICHE" all over here. He also seems like the mandatory "smart" guy of some JRPGs.

The others are nothing much. I also see a pattern of slaves, escaping, exiling, and a hard life in almost all of these characters.

Asylum seems typical, would like to see if you can manage people to sympathize him, unless you are going out for the ALL EVIL character, which I do not see you doing that ( thankfully) currently.

As for the gameplay, I'm not going to comment now because it seems to early for me.

There you go.

 

[GiveMeASpicy]

Thanks a lot for the critique friend. I really appreciate it, especially since you've been busy.

First off, I'm not really a fan of playing as a few characters in a game, unless its like Seiken Densetsu 3 style where you can choose between people, because I really want to establish a "bond" with the character, or at least know it well, it's really hard to "bond" with a character if you keep on switching back and forth.

Well, what we're trying to do by having character shifts is to establish a real bond with all of the characters and develop each of them fully. In most games the other characters are pretty much story fluff, they don't really serve any plot to the narrative. Plus, the changes in perspective mostly occur during the first half of the game, when the player should be developing those bonds. After all eight of the characters meet, the focus kind of hones in on Vance.

The plot is so-so, does not really spell too much "CLICHE CLICHE CLICHE" all over the place, but typical nonetheless. I need more information before commenting more about the plot though.

I know there's not a whole lot in the summary plot wise. For some reason I'm having trouble articulating the overall storyline without putting in too much exposition on the world. I'm currently working on it, and when I update it I'll let you know. Or, I could PM you with more info if you're interested in discussing it.

On towards characters, but I gotta say first is that its quite nice you have a 31 year old protagonist, a thing missing in quite alot of games.

However, if the protagonist is going to be socially estranged, PLEASE PLEASE don't let him be like Squall or Cloud, getting emo all day long. His background is also quite typical, and so is him being determined. I need more flaws though, his flaw being "extreme obsession of truth" doesn't really seem much of a flaw to me, it seems like he's all "GOOD AND TRUTH AND GLORY THAT NEVER GIVES UP." type of character

I'm glad you (and hopefully others) like that Vance is older. To be honest, I was tired of the archetypal JRPG hero; androgynous 17 your old boy(or girl?) who saves the day through teamwork and friendship. I wanted to create more realistic characters, and a mature plot with more adult themes in it. To do that, it felt appropriate to make my hero older. As for the "cloud/squall" issue, when I sat down and started creating Vance my first objective was making sure he's nothing like them. I hate the emo trend going on with FF heroes, and I wanted no part of it. That's not to say he's Mr. Happy Go Lucky, but he's not a whinny mope by any stretch. Nor is he all about good/truth/glory. That's not what I meant to convey by obsession with truth at all. When I say that its a flaw, I mean it in the sense of "insane obsession that spirals into a dark path" kind of obsession. I guess a better word to describe it is an addiction. Vance starts as very determined and moralistic, but his obsession/addiction makes him spiral out of control. I'll rewrite it to better convey that, but it's not how you think at all. As for more flaws, he's doesn't have any other MASSIVE ones, but he's very stubborn, can be very untrusting, slightly paranoid, he definitely has an addictive tendency towards things.

Ashley seems like a typical character to me. Then we also have THAT strange old guy ( Avalokrishna)
We also have an exiled guy, nothing too unique here, but I don't see so much "CLICHE" all over here. He also seems like the mandatory "smart" guy of some JRPGs.

The others are nothing much. I also see a pattern of slaves, escaping, exiling, and a hard life in almost all of these characters.

Hopefully this is a good thing. I'm glad you don't see any of them as cliche, though typically doesn't sound great either. But hopefully the uniqueness of their personalities will come through in the plot. I can't really describe all of the little personality traits and quirks that will make them unique. Do you consider it a bad thing that they're typical? Oh, and Avalo isn't the strange old guy. He's actually not even old. I mean, he is for humans, but not for Sunjata. They actually live on average about 2,000 years, give or take.

Asylum seems typical, would like to see if you can manage people to sympathize him, unless you are going out for the ALL EVIL character, which I do not see you doing that ( thankfully) currently.

Well, by no stretch is Asylum anyone to sympathize with. While he's not an ALL EVIL type of character, he is definitely someone the players are going to hate. As I said, the game's plot is much more mature than typical rpgs, and as a villain the things he does are seriously heinous. He does have his own areas that could allow for sympathetic feelings, because we're also trying to make him a real person, but by no means will you ever feel bad for him. Rather, we'd like him to be a villain that players love to hate. There aren't any really good villains in RPGs anymore, ones that you hate so much you want to beat them into the ground. That's what Asylum is.

Hope that gives a bit more insight, let me know.

And while me and my team are loving the feedback on the characters/stories, we'd love to hear what you guys think about the designs! Love 'em, hate 'em, let us know.

 

[friend]

Ah I see about the villian, also by "typical" I mean nothing really stands out but it isn't a horrible cliche fest.

 

[GiveMeASpicy]

Well, my hope is that while there may not be anything that stands out about them, they're real characters who the player can actually connect with. I mean, there's not a whole lot that stands out about characters like Sam Gamgees or Commander Shepard, but they become characters that people attach themselves to. Hopefully my characters have this potentiality for the same kind of connection. I like to think that they do. Do you agree?

 

[friend]

Hard to say until you make the game and put it in practice