How do you think the world would be like if Adolf Hitler succeded?

[Mezmerize]

If Japan hadn't made the mistake of attacking Pearl Harbor, we wouldn't have entered the war at that time.

Tojo didn't roll out of bed one day and think to himself, "I are destroy the pearly harbors LULZ! FTW!"  It was a lot more complex than that.  Japan needed two things for their war machine, tin and oil.  Before their invasion of French Indochina they were receiving it in abundance from the Americans.  Their only choice then was seizing the oil fields in Malaysia which essentially meant bringing the Americans into the war.  They reasoned they ought to make the assault to get an upper hand in the pacific, so they can secure oil in Malaysia to keep the war machine running.  Like the Germans there was no fantasy of conquering the United States.  They needed oil independence from the US, because FDR and Co was not interested in the Japanese Co Prosperity Sphere.  In fact they found the idea monstrous.

War in both theaters was inevitable.  Lend Lease had already involved the US in an undeclared Naval war with the Germans to protect the shipping lanes.  Had Pearl Harbor been avoided the Japanese still would've had to go into Malaysia which would've brought them into direct conflict with the Brits which means Lend Lease east now at the very least, or outright war because the US gave the Japanese a clear warning not to cross that Rubicon. 

Germany never was close to the bomb.  They were stuck on the Uranium enrichment process all the way into the late war period.  The allies did a good job denying the necessary materials which weren't abundant in Europe anyway.  And no there wouldn't have been any qualms about it.  Did we have any?  This was an era of total conventional war and an a-bomb is just another kind of ordinance.  Consider the carpet bombings of Dresden and Tokyo.  Today these would be war crimes.  People in the Ivory Tower and the United Naysayers would be shaking their righteous fingers at the callous and wanton acts of Allied violence on the poor helpless gentle people of the Axis.

Never said that it wasn't a strategic attack, etc. All I said they made a mistake in attacking the US because that brought them into the war.

 

[Dissonance]

The world would be German, because that's what Hitler was aiming for.

No it would be Hitler's version of Aryan. The movement was predicated on Nietzche's idea of creative destruction.  The Ubermenschen would destroy the old world, our current Christian tyranny, and replace it with a world governed by higher moral values and creative growth.  In a gross departure from Nietzche, the Nazis thought, through reasoning that seems utterly random and psychotic, they could create Ubermenschen through a program of positive and negative eugenics that brought out "Aryan" traits.  They believed the culture that we would identify as German to be a lesser reality built on weak morals that are enslaved by a sick religious ideology known as Christianity.  The Nazis, had they the time and power, would've worked to wipe away all of that to produce an "Aryan" culture.

Yeah, Nietzsche generally gets a bad rap because the Nazis twisted up all his ideas to make them compatible with their ideologies, despite Nietzsche publicly mentioning that antisemitism was retarded.  Nietzsche's a pretty cool guy, he just gets a bad rap in the USA for what his people did during the time he was alive.

 

[So fist]

Dis thanks for the name correction.  Its hard to fit that extra s in.  Those Germans are tricky like that.  Nietzsche was long dead before the Nazis were a piece of fancy in Hitler's twisted little mind.  Nietzsche did react against a somewhat similar nationalist movement that was tempered in anti-semetic sentiment.  That caused a falling out between him and Wagner, whom he once believed to be an Ubermensch.  Nothing ever came of the movement though.  They simply splintered into a small clan of esoteric groups that espoused conspiracy supported by junk psuedoscience and paranoia.  Some of whom were eventually drawn into the National Socialist Workers Party, but they were mere contributers to the party's doctrine and symbolism not its sole authors. 

Personally I gravitate over to Dostoevsky over Nietzsche.  I kind of deconstruct the situation this way.  Nietzsche says it is ordinary not to strive to be extraordinary but to rather be a slave to a weak morality.  Dostoevsky says it is ordinary to think you are extraordinary and look down on all the Lilliputians that surround you with self righteous contempt. But I digress.

 

[Ninjitsu]

Anyway what are we talking about?  Hitler?  Blah, right, nobody here actually knows anything about him except he hates Jews.  Let's talk Big Brother in a new topic, anyone up for it?

Lets do it.
We could merge it with Sophist's new technology one though.
Oh, nvm: http://www.rmxp.org/forums/index.php?topic=42595.0

 

[Dissonance]

Personally I gravitate over to Dostoevsky over Nietzsche.  I kind of deconstruct the situation this way.  Nietzsche says it is ordinary not to strive to be extraordinary but to rather be a slave to a weak morality.  Dostoevsky says it is ordinary to think you are extraordinary and look down on all the Lilliputians that surround you with self righteous contempt. But I digress.

I always viewed their ideas to be closer than that.  They both seem to have a 'house of crystal' idea going on in their philosophies.

 

[So fist]

I don't quite get what you mean by house of crystal...

Another key difference is their conception of Nihilism.  Nietzsche defines it as a faith in a higher power i.e. god.  God is dead therefore faith in such is faith in a nothing.  Nietzsche points that the only way to escape nihilism is to have faith in your own construction of morality as you move toward ubermenschdom i.e. faith in yourself as god.  God also fucks around with his ideal of ultimate responsibility.  If there is a divine that is always one up on us than their is no hope for true masterdom of the universe.  I'm not doing it justice but that is the gist. 

Dostoevsky defines nihilism as a faith in ego driven ideas and desires.  All of his reprehensible characters and pathetic subjects for lampooning exhibit an inability to see past themselves.  Dostoevsky's nihilists are atheistic and driven by egotistical desires for greatness or socialist utopian ideals.  Think Raskolnikov and Verkhovensky.  Raskolnikov, for example is constantly trying to justify himself with Sonya.  Repeatedly he tries to convice her that there is no god, and then is insistent that he snuffed out the life of a nothing, a louse.  Their desire for overcoming the present constraints of society, of overcoming our "weak" morality ends in disaster and is always shown to be unattainable nor desirable anyway.  These characters are counterbalanced by saintly figures who cling onto Russian orthodox tradition despite incredible hardship.  Sonya for example was forced into prostitution and the majority of her wages go to support an ungrateful stepmother, her younger step siblings, and a drunken father all while holding on to her faith in god as to her its the only hope worth having.  Through that faith the saints endure incredible suffering and exhibit great charity upon their fellows.  Sonya devotes her life to Raskolnikov's redemption and never abandons him despite the fact he murdered one of her friends (Lizaveta).  The self centered nihilists, on the other hand, can only destroy, and there is no creation in their destruction, but rather disappointment that they find themselves unable to go beyond the morality of murder.  No Dostoevsky is the antithesis of Nietzsche if anything.

 

[Samboy]

Life would be fucking awesome. Note how much I love Hitler (avatar, userbar etc).

 

[kaze950]

I'm sure the world would be better, but at the cost of a lot of things. IMO, a free world and a perfect world cannot exist at the same time.

 

[___]

Unless you define a free world as a perfect world, its inherent flaws accentuating its beauty rather than problems that need to be solved.

 

[shiroun]

***NEW INFO ON THIS******
He was 25% jewish. If anyone found out, he'd be in a concentration camp. even if he had succeeded in defeating everyone... bombing rome... etc. He'd be dead soon afterwards due to AIDS, HIV, or any of the other 21 STDs he contracted -_-

 

[___]

HIV wasn't even around in WWII, and AIDS is a symptom / effect of HIV, not another disease :/  Hitler also wasn't in the least bit interested in bombing Rome, I don't even know where you came up with that. Please don't post nonsense.

 

[So fist]

Between that and the a few folks referring to the alternative as a better world I think we can conclude this thread is a nonsense magnet. 

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

***NEW INFO ON THIS******
He was 25% jewish. If anyone found out, he'd be in a concentration camp. even if he had succeeded in defeating everyone... bombing rome... etc. He'd be dead soon afterwards due to AIDS, HIV, or any of the other 21 STDs he contracted -_-

I hope the NEW INFO was sarcasm, it's already been brought up and it's old news.

Many of his inner circle already knew.  It wasn't a long kept dark secret that no body found out till accidentally looking up an old family album.  Sure, he didn't go around going "Oh, hello.  My grandmother was Jüdisch, ya fun stuff.  Auf wiedersehen." and paddle off.  At the same time, sure he wouldn't be in a concentration camp.  He'd put more of a spin on it then he did the, well what you'd know as the Olympic symbol.

 

[skirtboy]

Most likely, the human race would be nearly extinct. Due to Hitler's incompetence, the only way for him to have achieved victroy on either front would be large-scale biochemical warfare. Hitler lost WWII the day Britan declared war. Defeating Britain was impossible without a powerful enough navy, which would not have been ready until 1944. Further, there is no reason to think that he would not try to invade America, CHina, and Japan later on. His lust for territory was demonstrably bottomless, and sooner or later there would be nowhere else to go. Also, never forget that 5 million of the people sent to the camps were not Jewish. Homosexuals, Priests, nobles, gypsies, Jehovah Witnesses, and anyone who opposed Hitler made up this section. Sooner or later, Germany was going to invent the bomb, which would have resulted in the nuclear bombings of Tokyo, Washington, Toronto, Beijing, any any other world capital that he did not control.

"Best" case scenario would be 200-300 million dead in the camps, an additional 400 million dead from german weapons, and a world-spanning totalitarian empire.

Worst case scenario would be the collapse of the Third Reich upon hitler's death, with a bloody civil war destroying 80-90% of the human population.

 

[Samboy]

Worst case scenario would be the collapse of the Third Reich upon hitler's death, with a bloody civil war destroying 80-90% of the human population.

Nope. There's more than that remaining amount of people living in developing countries, of which he wouldn't bother to enter because of lack of, well, what are they going to give you? No oil, no money, no technology... he'd be better off invading Canada. Sorry, a little American humor there.

 

[skirtboy]

What developing countries are those? All of Africa was a battleground in WWII, and the smaller Asian countries are between Germany and other major powers of the era.

 

[Samboy]

Developing countries like Ethiopia and the rest, Africa was only a battleground because it wasn't occupied by either country in the beginning. It wasn't however liberated, the people weren't tortured etc.

 

[kimpoy2006]

Well personally, I'm pro-Hitler but I dunno why...
seems weird but its true. BUT IM NOT PRO-NAZISM.
Its just I dunno why I support him.

Germany was powerful (yep) but it was brought down by certain inefficiencies and bad tactics. Germany could have taken over england by air and maybe yes at sea(with subs).
He was just too confident for own good. What a loss...

Plus Russia at that time could have been easily be taken over if Germany formulated pans with Japan to pinch Russia (that would have been 1 less opponent to beat). And if russia just hadn't invented their curved tanks that kinda did deflect. Hmmm...

Maybe the world would've been his own big testing ground.

 

[shiroun]

HIV wasn't even around in WWII, and AIDS is a symptom / effect of HIV, not another disease :/  Hitler also wasn't in the least bit interested in bombing Rome, I don't even know where you came up with that. Please don't post nonsense.

I forget the name of it, the building in Rome that is a sanctium, no one can fight there. He was going to bomb it, or raid it, because Jews were hiding there.

BTW the new info was a joke :P, the rest wasn't.

 

[benos]

We would be all grammar nazi's. Non stop, if one slip of a spelling error. WHAM.