How do you think the world would be like if Adolf Hitler succeded?
- Thread starter syphonmax
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Dissonance
Member
Hitler wasn't as blindly racist as everybody paints him as. But he was still pretty bad. :P
I don't see why he'd ally with the Japanese if he thought they were inferior. And he also wouldn't have said that the Chinese and Japanese cultures are "ancient" and "superior to our own". His words.
Hitler had immense respect for cultures that existed thousands of years ago - Various asian empires, Egyptians, Arabs, even central and south americans. He began killing Jews because he believed they were a parasite on the old cultures of the world (especially the arabs) and he began attacking other european nations because he believed that europe should be purged of all christianity and a celtic-based culture and religion be restored - another case of removing the new culture (christian europe) and reviving the old (celtic europe).
He wasn't a saturday morning cartoon villain that simply kept shouting DEATH IS GOOD LOL like we think him to be.
I don't see why he'd ally with the Japanese if he thought they were inferior. And he also wouldn't have said that the Chinese and Japanese cultures are "ancient" and "superior to our own". His words.
Hitler had immense respect for cultures that existed thousands of years ago - Various asian empires, Egyptians, Arabs, even central and south americans. He began killing Jews because he believed they were a parasite on the old cultures of the world (especially the arabs) and he began attacking other european nations because he believed that europe should be purged of all christianity and a celtic-based culture and religion be restored - another case of removing the new culture (christian europe) and reviving the old (celtic europe).
He wasn't a saturday morning cartoon villain that simply kept shouting DEATH IS GOOD LOL like we think him to be.
Have you read Mein Kampf? Hitler was most definitely racist to a ludicrous extreme that would be laughable and even cute in the way that psychotic conspiracy nuts are if he hadn't managed to act on it. While he did have a lot of respect for great civilizations of the past, especially the Mediterranean cultures, saying "I fucking hate those worthless parasitic [X race] who are secretly taking over the world, but I sure to do love them [Y race]" hardly makes you less racist.
Furthermore his respect for ancient cultures had a lot more to do with the reach and breadth of their imperialism than with their cultural values, in a sort of social-Darwinistic sense that they had proven their superiority by subjugation and the building of massive monuments. He still, especially in his later years, considered natives of all brands pretty much inferior even if they were the descendants of impressive civilizations and I believe he denied that Native Americans were the builders of the South American empires (don't quote me on that, but I think he thought that must have been a group of Aryans who went over to America). He called Asians "yellow jews" or something like that.
Furthermore his respect for ancient cultures had a lot more to do with the reach and breadth of their imperialism than with their cultural values, in a sort of social-Darwinistic sense that they had proven their superiority by subjugation and the building of massive monuments. He still, especially in his later years, considered natives of all brands pretty much inferior even if they were the descendants of impressive civilizations and I believe he denied that Native Americans were the builders of the South American empires (don't quote me on that, but I think he thought that must have been a group of Aryans who went over to America). He called Asians "yellow jews" or something like that.
Hitler was a great diplomat. He knew that he would have to, temporarily, suspend his attacks on certain groups to further his cause (eg: Allying with Communist Russia, obviously Japan etc). I mean, the guy managed to conquer nearly all of Eastern Europe without any wars- he was smart enough to realise he could do this even with an army that was not yet ready for any resistance.
MOST Americans have German blood. Not some >.> Most. And not just a little either.
I think certain races should be separated since all they do is complain about each other. "OMFG U CALLED ME NAMEZ" That's about it. Hitler succeeding would be terrifying. I think we would probably ALL be globally monitored. Kind of like GWB is doing to americans right now >.> Poor things. All their phones are being tapped and they have hidden cameras all over the place =x
Power only wants more right? He would basically be God. Would you want hitler as a God? >.>
I think certain races should be separated since all they do is complain about each other. "OMFG U CALLED ME NAMEZ" That's about it. Hitler succeeding would be terrifying. I think we would probably ALL be globally monitored. Kind of like GWB is doing to americans right now >.> Poor things. All their phones are being tapped and they have hidden cameras all over the place =x
Power only wants more right? He would basically be God. Would you want hitler as a God? >.>
Dissonance
Member
kipani":1ygz2noi said:
What are you insane- oh wait you're the pregnant one.
Nphyx":24w8yvd2 said:
These posts are VERY like Orwells 1984. Just look at it. Nphyx is like doublethinking. XD
Anyway, If Hitler ruled, it would indeed be terrifying for everyone. After exterminating the Jews, he'll kill the German relatives of the Jews who aren't Jewish...
Yeah. Terrifying stuff.
I do think we're approaching 1984 levels in doubletalk/doublethink but you have to understand what those terms mean in order to appreciate them. It's not saying the same thing twice or thinking the same thing twice :P As far as surveillance goes, the pace of technology is unavoidable, the best thing we can do is adapt and make sure it goes both ways - someone has to watch the watchers, it's only natural that be the public. As cameras get smaller, cheaper and higher capacity and wi-fi spreads farther and farther it's going to get increasingly difficult for authorities to exploit people without getting caught at it and extremely difficult to suppress information before it spreads like wildfire; this alone will more than balance things out.
Anyway what are we talking about? Hitler? Blah, right, nobody here actually knows anything about him except he hates Jews. Let's talk Big Brother in a new topic, anyone up for it?
Anyway what are we talking about? Hitler? Blah, right, nobody here actually knows anything about him except he hates Jews. Let's talk Big Brother in a new topic, anyone up for it?
Five things if Hitler had succeeded:
1. Arm bands would be in fashion.
2. Christianity would be replaced by a schizophrenic concocted beast of "Aryan" mythos and worship.
3. Sausage would taste funny.
4. Positive and negative eugenics would be fundamental state policy.
5. Voluntary attendance to the Fuhrer's daily rant would be mandatory.
It would likely be a little Brave New World mixed with 1984.
On 1984,
My major bone of contention with Orwell's conclusion is his unwavering loyalty to Worfian hypothesis. The idea that language constructs reality is ass backwards. Language may shape perception and sentiment but it does not control it. Especially from the top down, that's silliness. The idea that by eliminating the word bad and replacing it with ungood would eliminate the perception of bad is again utter silliness. It assumes that the word bad has some kind of magical quality of badness that can only be expressed by that word. As if bad were a natural designation for the perception of badness and not some arbitrary syllable we silently all agreed upon to represent things that are the opposite of good. On history and propaganda he has a stronger argument but it is not control in a worfian sense, but rather control through a deluge of filtered information coupled with state terror. Worfian control of language is the of inconsequential concern because it simply doesn't work that way. Language is too plastic and creative to adhere to it, and our perceptions are too wide to be controlled by words.
All that being said I respect a socialist who is willing to point out that Stalin and Trotsky were pigs. Though he was gentler on poor old snowball and certainly put Trotsky on a higher pedestal deserved. The revolution was a lot messier business than was depicted as well, but I'm sure Orwell was limited by the available of information on that topic.
1. Arm bands would be in fashion.
2. Christianity would be replaced by a schizophrenic concocted beast of "Aryan" mythos and worship.
3. Sausage would taste funny.
4. Positive and negative eugenics would be fundamental state policy.
5. Voluntary attendance to the Fuhrer's daily rant would be mandatory.
It would likely be a little Brave New World mixed with 1984.
On 1984,
My major bone of contention with Orwell's conclusion is his unwavering loyalty to Worfian hypothesis. The idea that language constructs reality is ass backwards. Language may shape perception and sentiment but it does not control it. Especially from the top down, that's silliness. The idea that by eliminating the word bad and replacing it with ungood would eliminate the perception of bad is again utter silliness. It assumes that the word bad has some kind of magical quality of badness that can only be expressed by that word. As if bad were a natural designation for the perception of badness and not some arbitrary syllable we silently all agreed upon to represent things that are the opposite of good. On history and propaganda he has a stronger argument but it is not control in a worfian sense, but rather control through a deluge of filtered information coupled with state terror. Worfian control of language is the of inconsequential concern because it simply doesn't work that way. Language is too plastic and creative to adhere to it, and our perceptions are too wide to be controlled by words.
All that being said I respect a socialist who is willing to point out that Stalin and Trotsky were pigs. Though he was gentler on poor old snowball and certainly put Trotsky on a higher pedestal deserved. The revolution was a lot messier business than was depicted as well, but I'm sure Orwell was limited by the available of information on that topic.
sixtyandaquarter
Member
No not that kind of sausage Vennie :x
Honestly, I've thought about this a lot, and after watching a documentary on the History channel, it affected my views even more.
In an American perspective, Hitler was going to bring the war to the U.S. Also, a lot of factors could've resulted in Germany actually succeeding in winning World War II, Hitler was just stupid about it.
In terms of war, I think Hitler was close to being a military genius... but let's face it, the guy was the biggest hypocrite on the face of the planet. He hated jews... he was part Jewish. His version of the German master race was Aryan... let's face it folks, he wasn't blue eyed or had blonde hair.
If Japan hadn't made the mistake of attacking Pearl Harbor, we wouldn't have entered the war at that time. I'm pretty positive even if Pearl Harbor weren't attacked, America would've given up its neutrality and entered the war on the side of the allies. However, it would've given Hitler the upper hand in Europe if America had stayed out of the war longer than December.
Also, the fact that Hitler declared war on Russia... BAD move. This is what cost him the war, in my opinion. To quote Sum of All Fears "You don't fight America and Russia at the same time; you get America and Russia to fight each other." Two-front war basically killed Germany. If Germany hadn't attacked Russia, they could've focused ALL of there resources on the Western Front and not worry about Russian opposition. Let's face it, Hitler got over-confident.
Last fact, Atomic Bomb. Albert Einstein warned U.S. officials that Germany was building a very powerful weapon. President Roosevelt caught wind of this and decided to construct the Manhattan Project, etc etc. If Albert Einstein hadn't warned the U.S. about the possible building of the a-bomb by Germany... would Germany be reluctant when it came to using it? Safe to say we all know the answer to that one.
Instead of an alternate course in history, Hitler would've followed through with the Final Solution and proceeded on killing all the "inferior" races. America would not be as it is today, at all. The world would be German, because that's what Hitler was aiming for.
Do I think Germany could've won World War II? Absolutely. Hitler made very, VERY big mistakes, that if he avoided them, he could've easily defeated Britain someway, somehow. France was already wiped out. America wouldn't have entered the conflict if Japan hadn't intervened.
World would not be as it is today at all. It'd be a pretty scary place to be honest.
In an American perspective, Hitler was going to bring the war to the U.S. Also, a lot of factors could've resulted in Germany actually succeeding in winning World War II, Hitler was just stupid about it.
In terms of war, I think Hitler was close to being a military genius... but let's face it, the guy was the biggest hypocrite on the face of the planet. He hated jews... he was part Jewish. His version of the German master race was Aryan... let's face it folks, he wasn't blue eyed or had blonde hair.
If Japan hadn't made the mistake of attacking Pearl Harbor, we wouldn't have entered the war at that time. I'm pretty positive even if Pearl Harbor weren't attacked, America would've given up its neutrality and entered the war on the side of the allies. However, it would've given Hitler the upper hand in Europe if America had stayed out of the war longer than December.
Also, the fact that Hitler declared war on Russia... BAD move. This is what cost him the war, in my opinion. To quote Sum of All Fears "You don't fight America and Russia at the same time; you get America and Russia to fight each other." Two-front war basically killed Germany. If Germany hadn't attacked Russia, they could've focused ALL of there resources on the Western Front and not worry about Russian opposition. Let's face it, Hitler got over-confident.
Last fact, Atomic Bomb. Albert Einstein warned U.S. officials that Germany was building a very powerful weapon. President Roosevelt caught wind of this and decided to construct the Manhattan Project, etc etc. If Albert Einstein hadn't warned the U.S. about the possible building of the a-bomb by Germany... would Germany be reluctant when it came to using it? Safe to say we all know the answer to that one.
Instead of an alternate course in history, Hitler would've followed through with the Final Solution and proceeded on killing all the "inferior" races. America would not be as it is today, at all. The world would be German, because that's what Hitler was aiming for.
Do I think Germany could've won World War II? Absolutely. Hitler made very, VERY big mistakes, that if he avoided them, he could've easily defeated Britain someway, somehow. France was already wiped out. America wouldn't have entered the conflict if Japan hadn't intervened.
World would not be as it is today at all. It'd be a pretty scary place to be honest.
Well, of course. The world is the way it is. The same could be said for a worldwide regime under Mussolini, Stalin, Napoleon, L. Ron Hubbard, or George W. Bush. After a while, people adjust their definition of the "norm" to fit the situation. While they might not be happy about it, an empire under Hitler's ideals wouldn't seem incredibly unbelievable after a couple of generations.
Bottom line, sure, people would accept that it was the way they lived their lives, but it wouldn't approach an Orwellian state of national brainwashing without incredible effort and forethought.
I... can't really predict how Hitler may rule the world. It's well known that he was paranoid, superstitious, and a multitude of other things; how far he might carry those negative traits is beyond my guessing. It'd be bad, but that's about all I can say. I'm not an expert on Nazi Germany by any means. Maybe with a little more knowledge of how Hitler ran his own country, I could guess at how he might spread that on a larger scale.
Of course, it seems that the other dudes here are doing a fine job of predicting just that, in varying degrees of flippancy.
I agree, though, on most counts. Fascist sausage just doesn't taste as good. :x
Bottom line, sure, people would accept that it was the way they lived their lives, but it wouldn't approach an Orwellian state of national brainwashing without incredible effort and forethought.
I... can't really predict how Hitler may rule the world. It's well known that he was paranoid, superstitious, and a multitude of other things; how far he might carry those negative traits is beyond my guessing. It'd be bad, but that's about all I can say. I'm not an expert on Nazi Germany by any means. Maybe with a little more knowledge of how Hitler ran his own country, I could guess at how he might spread that on a larger scale.
Of course, it seems that the other dudes here are doing a fine job of predicting just that, in varying degrees of flippancy.
I agree, though, on most counts. Fascist sausage just doesn't taste as good. :x
But for a limited time it would be kosher.
No they weren't, Hitler may have been nuts but his generals weren't. A US invasion would be a logistical nightmare. Imagine, trying to support a continuous stream of reinforcements for three thousand miles over water while trying to secure beachheads. It can't be done in 1945, especially not by Germany. Normandy was a feat in this sense and were only talking about some forty miles of water between the troops and the source of supply. The best thing for the Germans to expect would be the Americans quietly accepting status quo in Europe and settling for a white peace on their part.
Tojo didn't roll out of bed one day and think to himself, "I are destroy the pearly harbors LULZ! FTW!" It was a lot more complex than that. Japan needed two things for their war machine, tin and oil. Before their invasion of French Indochina they were receiving it in abundance from the Americans. Their only choice then was seizing the oil fields in Malaysia which essentially meant bringing the Americans into the war. They reasoned they ought to make the assault to get an upper hand in the pacific, so they can secure oil in Malaysia to keep the war machine running. Like the Germans there was no fantasy of conquering the United States. They needed oil independence from the US, because FDR and Co was not interested in the Japanese Co Prosperity Sphere. In fact they found the idea monstrous.
War in both theaters was inevitable. Lend Lease had already involved the US in an undeclared Naval war with the Germans to protect the shipping lanes. Had Pearl Harbor been avoided the Japanese still would've had to go into Malaysia which would've brought them into direct conflict with the Brits which means Lend Lease east now at the very least, or outright war because the US gave the Japanese a clear warning not to cross that Rubicon.
Germany never was close to the bomb. They were stuck on the Uranium enrichment process all the way into the late war period. The allies did a good job denying the necessary materials which weren't abundant in Europe anyway. And no there wouldn't have been any qualms about it. Did we have any? This was an era of total conventional war and an a-bomb is just another kind of ordinance. Consider the carpet bombings of Dresden and Tokyo. Today these would be war crimes. People in the Ivory Tower and the United Naysayers would be shaking their righteous fingers at the callous and wanton acts of Allied violence on the poor helpless gentle people of the Axis.
No it would be Hitler's version of Aryan. The movement was predicated on Nietzche's idea of creative destruction. The Ubermenschen would destroy the old world, our current Christian tyranny, and replace it with a world governed by higher moral values and creative growth. In a gross departure from Nietzche, the Nazis thought, through reasoning that seems utterly random and psychotic, they could create Ubermenschen through a program of positive and negative eugenics that brought out "Aryan" traits. They believed the culture that we would identify as German to be a lesser reality built on weak morals that are enslaved by a sick religious ideology known as Christianity. The Nazis, had they the time and power, would've worked to wipe away all of that to produce an "Aryan" culture.