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Golden Compass?

Monk

Member

iCheeze;331039 said:
I really dont know what to do..I want to go see it but Bashing god? I mean, Who Can kill Chuck norris? Seriously xD. It does look awesome though.

Offtopic: Milk bro? Are you Elias or whatever...
I saw some people on the news debating about the movie cuz it supposedly bashes God, but after seeing the movie, I have absolutely no idea what the hell they are talking about.

I suppose the magistarium (or whatever the hell it was called) could be seen as a metaphor for the Church in real life, but it never talks about God or church in the movie, so if they are offended by it, then that's only because THEY are the ones making that connection, so if that's the case, doesn't that reflect badly on THEM since they are RELATING to it?

I'm putting the following in spoiler tags even though it is not really a spoiler IMO since you learn it very early on in the movie and it is a basic element to the plot/journey:
Even if you use that metaphor, it doesn't really even work. In the movie, "dust" is the sort of metaphysical force and the magistarium are the ones trying to keep people from seeing it/knowing about it, so although the tactic could be argued by some as the same (not wanting people to see certain things like some people claim the Church has done in real life), the goals are opposites when you think about it (trying to get people to not see a fabled source instead of getting them to see it).

So, even if they did include that in and intend it to be a metaphor for what they think the Church does, wouldn't that be people bashing instead of God bashing? I mean, King Arthur and The Fountain both had examples of people killing in the name of the Church during their radical/fanatic-type medieval days (Inquisition/Crusades type stuff), but I didn't hear anyone complaining about those movies.
 
not sure if the american version of the trilogy left this out, but the enemy in the books is God and the church, probably why christians are getting a bit peed off about the film.
 
So you're saying its not about killing jesus? Intresting. I need more info about weather or not its about that because we are not going to go see it for ourselves until i've got more info.
 

Marcus

Sponsor

His Dark Materials (the name of the trilogy) IS NOT about bashing God. While it's true that the badguys in the books are the church (note how I say THE CHURCH, NOT God), that's not the message that Pullman was trying to make and there are a few churches and high ranking religious officials who recognized this and praised him for it.

Pullman is bashing ignorance and dogmatism and as a protestant myself, I can readily admit that this is something that people who "blindly" follow faith are guilty of. When you let the writings of man instead of the teachings of Jesus get to you, you start taking matters into your own hands instead of relying on faith to see it through. Pullman is saying that by destroying "in the name of the lord" you are going completely against what the lord teaches and he is 100% correct. This applies to ALL faith based religions.

So yeah, there's no church/god bashing in this story unless you take things super literally and are too stupid and ignorant to think outside the box. Anyone who actually gets offended by the movie is probably one of the ignorant people the story is attacking.
 

Kraft

Sponsor

There is no mention whatsoever of Jesus in that series.

Christians, yes, but I think that that is more a word that Pullman used that was familiar to people, rather than it being named after Jesus.

They call it a compass in the commercial (yes, that kinds stuck out to me in the commercial as well ^_^) but I agree with Despain that it was probabley for the sake of the commercial and it being a familiar word. I also think that since the movie is named the "Golden Compass" they probably had to make some mention why ^_^

Anyways, I cant wait for it to get to our theater here in town! (usually takes about 1-2 months after the movie actually comes out ^_^)

~Kraft
 

Marcus

Sponsor

The device the book is named after isn't even a compass. The british book is called Northern Lights and the American publishers mistook the alethiometer (I won't spoil anything) for a large golden compass and changed the name.
 

OS

Sponsor

Didn't somebody explain that differently earlier on in this thread, Marcus? I thought he changed the name to help get it released?

Anyways, I so do look forward to seeing the movie. Thanks to the commercial, I know how to pronounce some of the names right (Lyra and Iorek, atm)
 

mawk

Sponsor

Gurgh. I hates religion. D:<

Of course, I'm religious myself. :<

But people need to learn to take things with a grain of salt and stop being anal about everything. As soon as people start to believe in invisible people in the sky, I've noticed their capacity to be indignant skyrockets.

In other words; STFU, Catholic Church. Not everything's somewhere on a slider labeled "god" and "the devil."
 
I don't think it's the fact that it's a "atheist" book so much as, in the third book, they "kill God". That, to me, poses a problem. Harry Potter, big whoop, they never "challenged" religion, it's a fictional story, but the golden compas, it's like telling kids to despair, you know?

Oh, the thing that REALLY gets me is that it's publised by Scolastic, no along with the book being in schools, study guides and the like are also distributed. I, personally, would not want my child to have to study a book that "kills God" for a grade, it's not right. If it did the same thing with a religion I didn't beleave in, I'd feel the same way. You got a book where they "kill Muhammad" or something like that, it shouldn't be "required reading".

This book isn't a "suck it up" deal, like the muslims are doing with the Christmas trees, forcing people to call them holliday trees, that's bogus. We can be tollerant of another religion, but if something ATTACKS a religion, that's wrong.

Redundancy aside- I don't like the movie, don't like the book, you can have your book but keep it out of our childrens study guides.
 

Marcus

Sponsor

They don't kill God. Ever.

The following passage is a semi-spoiler for the third book. The detail is honestly not that important but some people are whiny about small things.

they kill Authority, the first angel, who's worshiped as a god, oppresses the people, and demands supreme loyalty. Authority didn't create the world, and while the books never say if there is an actual true omnipotent being, it goes deep enough to allow speculation that there was a god, but he left "Authority" in charge while he created other worlds but Authority ended up corrupting everything he created.

The last book is pretty depressing, I admit that, but keep in mind that the series takes place in an alternate earth. Pullman's Christian religion is clearly a blasphemy of the modern one because man stopped following God's teachings and started worshipping an idol. A fake. That's part of the message Pullman is trying to get across.
 

mawk

Sponsor

Muslims aren't forcing people to change Christmas, dude. That'd be really stupid. There's already Islamic holidays, and it makes no sense to take away a part of another religion's traditions. Muslims celebrate Eid, Christians celebrate Christmas. It's just that people are afraid of offending Muslims because everyone thinks they're mad bombers. The holiday tree bit's probably just people trying to sound multicultural and openminded, though.

I even read that some bishop is pushing to have God addressed as "Allah" in church. Hah! Sure, if there's anything Muslims will object to, it's how other religions read their own texts.
 
Gearpunk":3v1f2664 said:
Muslims aren't forcing people to change Christmas, dude. That'd be really stupid. There's already Islamic holidays, and it makes no sense to take away a part of another religion's traditions. Muslims celebrate Eid, Christians celebrate Christmas. It's just that people are afraid of offending Muslims because everyone thinks they're mad bombers. The holiday tree bit's probably just people trying to sound multicultural and openminded, though.

I even read that some bishop is pushing to have God addressed as "Allah" in church. Hah! Sure, if there's anything Muslims will object to, it's how other religions read their own texts.

No, actually, i'm reffering to the LAWSUITS in the USA, done by Muslims, forcing us to use "Holiday tree" and not Christmas tree. Also, it's the "holiday season" now, not the Christmas season. I'm talking about THOSE people, it's ridiculous.
 

mawk

Sponsor

I wasn't aware of any lawsuits. o_o

As previously stated, that's stupid. As if it wasn't enough the the Catholic Church gets offended for no reason, now it's starting to catch on in other religions, too. ;>_>

Many apologies, dude. I was getting ahead of the facts. XD
 

Marcus

Sponsor

I agree that Christmas should be taken out of commercials.  Christmas is a sacred holiday to people of the Christian faith and I think it's offensive use Christmas as support for mass consumerism.  If I was Jewish, I'd be pretty offended if every commercial blasted at me "CELEBRATE THE CHANUKAH SEASON BY PURCHASING A WHOLE BUNCH OF SHIT YOU DON'T NEED!!!111"

The only reason Christmas was so prevelant was because America didn't have half the racial diversity it did 50 years ago (and the racially diverse people were considered 2nd class citizens with no rights or say).  Christmas can finally get it's meaning back instead of being about buying cheap gifts.

But... I think we strayed far enough off the topic.  I just want to say that this is a fine movie, there's nothing religiously or morally offensive about it, and it's pretty darn good.  Hopefully they pull a "lotr" and make the sequels as well.
 
It's just that people are afraid of offending Muslims because everyone thinks they're mad bombers.
Ah. We could take em on, we're americans. We could blow their heads off if we really wanted to, but they have allies also, so we could get burned pretty bad.

Marcus":26zcwstf said:
I agree that Christmas should be taken out of commercials.  Christmas is a sacred holiday to people of the Christian faith and I think it's offensive use Christmas as support for mass consumerism.  If I was Jewish, I'd be pretty offended if every commercial blasted at me "CELEBRATE THE CHANUKAH SEASON BY PURCHASING A WHOLE BUNCH OF SHIT YOU DON'T NEED!!!111"
Yeah I agree why can't they just say "It's the holiday season!"

Deathbreak":26zcwstf said:
I don't think it's the fact that it's a "atheist" book so much as, in the third book, they "kill God". That, to me, poses a problem. Harry Potter, big whoop, they never "challenged" religion, it's a fictional story, but the golden compas, it's like telling kids to despair, you know?

Oh, the thing that REALLY gets me is that it's publised by Scolastic, no along with the book being in schools, study guides and the like are also distributed. I, personally, would not want my child to have to study a book that "kills God" for a grade, it's not right. If it did the same thing with a religion I didn't beleave in, I'd feel the same way. You got a book where they "kill Muhammad" or something like that, it shouldn't be "required reading".

This book isn't a "suck it up" deal, like the muslims are doing with the Christmas trees, forcing people to call them holliday trees, that's bogus. We can be tollerant of another religion, but if something ATTACKS a religion, that's wrong.

Redundancy aside- I don't like the movie, don't like the book, you can have your book but keep it out of our childrens study guides.
I agree with EVERYTHING there.  You are so right dude.

Well. The movie looked fickin awesome until I heard that it realtes to "The Church Being Bad Guys." Well, I'm not gonna see that ever. I might just make a little video making fun of it!
Who wants me to?!
 
Well. The movie looked fickin awesome until I heard that it realtes to "The Church Being Bad Guys." Well, I'm not gonna see that ever. I might just make a little video making fun of it!
Who wants me to?!

It's impossible to parody something without having seen it first.
 
Despain":3shusv0t said:
It's impossible to parody something without having seen it first.
Not true. Snakes on a Plane videos were comming out before the movie.

@Sailerius I know, Christmas isn't the only holiday. However, if someone were to say "the Hanuka season" I wouldn't be offended, you know? I think it's sad that some people are.

@Marcus I agree. They are planing a trrilogy, btw (aggree with all but the movie is great. I haven't seen it, so I don't know)

@Whoever said that America can start getting back to the real reason of Christmas- This will NEVER happen, sorry. As an American, I have to say that the majority of America is too stupid to ever, EVER, fix this problem. For the people who don't celebrate Christmas, you still have people warping your religion too, so it's everyone, not one group.
 

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