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My idea of a true RPG is apparently very different from those of you who have it all wrong. Cant we just move past the story driven crap? For all intents and purposes, Dragon age is almost exactly like some jRPG minus the spiky hair. Its all about the story, and theres a few minor diversions along the way.

More than anything, this game needs a real "overworld" in place of that stinking map. I cant beleive I am even typing the word overworld in this day and age. Moving around on a map like that is like something from the old SNES days. It just seems like laziness to me.

It does not matter what I think however. As long as there are people out there willing to overlook the massive flaws in this game and hype it like its the greatest thing ever, Bioware will continue to churn them out.
 

moog

Sponsor

nikki":9dbz0hnn said:
My idea of a true RPG is apparently very different from those of you who have it all wrong. Cant we just move past the story driven crap? For all intents and purposes, Dragon age is almost exactly like some jRPG minus the spiky hair. Its all about the story, and theres a few minor diversions along the way.

More than anything, this game needs a real "overworld" in place of that stinking map. I cant beleive I am even typing the word overworld in this day and age. Moving around on a map like that is like something from the old SNES days. It just seems like laziness to me.

It does not matter what I think however. As long as there are people out there willing to overlook the massive flaws in this game and hype it like its the greatest thing ever, Bioware will continue to churn them out.


ahahahahah

jrpgs arent about the story bud
thats why they suck ass (well most of them)

this game is pretty much nothing like you say it is, I dont see how any of your points are valid. Its SUPER western imo, and has that feel.

also rpgs almost always move on a world map, its called EXPLORATION; a major part of any rpg homie
 
im tetsuuya numerra":247n0yvz said:
ahahahahah

jrpgs arent about the story bud
thats why they suck ass (well most of them)

this game is pretty much nothing like you say it is, I dont see how any of your points are valid. Its SUPER western imo, and has that feel.

also rpgs almost always move on a world map, its called EXPLORATION; a major part of any rpg homie


Excuse me? JRPGs arent about the story? Then praytell what are the hours and hours of cinematic cutscenes all about? Surely jRPGs arent about the action-packed gameplay. Nope, Dragon age is pretty much exactly like Final Fantasy 12 or whatever it was called, except you get to make choices in dialog.

And I think you are getting the meaning of world map confused here. I want my rpgs to have hills, roads mountains and forests to travel thru, not some static parchment map with a few points of intrest. That is not exploration, homie
 
dude get your genre definitions right.

um an rpg is a

ROLE PLAYING GAME

you get a character or bundle of characters and you shape their aspects to become better than they were before.

an adventure game is one where you explore a number of areas and solve puzzles and figure out how to get to the next area via items and more puzzle-solving.

action games almost always require the player to use hand-eye coordination to complete series of maneuvers or battle combinations.

dungeon crawlers are a sub-genre of rpgs wherein you explore dungeons or dungeon-like maze-type areas and fight hordes of enemies (in bundles) that drop shit.

this is largely a dungeon crawler. it requires very little hand-eye coordination and only features a small number of puzzles. it is not an action nor an adventure game.

no genre definition is based upon linearity levels.
 
nikki":3tt7ga1v said:
This game is so freaking linear. Why does Bioware bother calling their games RPGs anymore? All they do is add a bunch of stats and loot to a typical action adventure and they think THATS an rpg. WRONG.

Dont get me wrong, its a great adventure game. But its false advertising to call it an RPG.

it's not an adventure game. an adventure game is Day of the Tentacle or Secret of Monkey Island or hell, even Myst. see my above post for info on genres.


Look at the so called "sidequests" for god's sake! All they do is place some little trinket in a corner of a dungeon that the main quest requires you to visit anyway. And then theres the sidequests that actually come to you without you having to do anything at all. You just meet some guys while traveling, you kill them and somehow you have completed a "quest".

yes i thought that was actually a strong point. it gives you incentive to really fully explore an area before leaving it, instead of revisiting repeatedly.

Bioware is starting to seem to me, the lazy RPG developer. They just LOOOOVE to recycle areas again and again. Just like in Mass Effect. The same "side of the road" area is used over a dozen times. Oh, and just how "epic" can a game be when it only has a small handful of locations to explore?

what
there are like 230 planets you can explore in mass effect
wh

and also in this game the areas are pretty expansive, i mean i was satisfied with the size. it doesn't need to have 453243 square miles of wilderness and nothing to make it enjoyable.

And further, why bother giving each character a huge skill tree, when the damn game just doesnt have enough content in it to make even a third of it useful? Take crafting for instance. Yeah, its great that you can make your own potions and traps, but considering EVERYTHING in the game is in severly limited quantity...you wont be making much. Eventually you run out of monsters to fight, chests to open and plants to harvest.

this point i agree with kind of. but i did actually make a lot of medicines and traps. they were useful. poisons, not as much.

I wouldnt call this game shit, Id call it a fun action game with a bunch of bullshit rpg stuff tacked on just to make it seem "epic". Fuck Bioware. I hope bethesda buys them out and the two combine their talents to make a real rpg. One with freedom AND a good story, not just one or the other.

it sounds to me like you just want elderscrolls 5.
elderscrolls =/= the framework of all rpg's.
actually sometimes i find the total lack of linearityin bethesda games to make the experience less powerful. sure there's more to do, but there's little incentive.
dont get me wrong, i love elder scrolls. but i like bioware rpgs a lot more usually.

nikki":3tt7ga1v said:
Excuse me? JRPGs arent about the story? Then praytell what are the hours and hours of cinematic cutscenes all about? Surely jRPGs arent about the action-packed gameplay. Nope, Dragon age is pretty much exactly like Final Fantasy 12 or whatever it was called, except you get to make choices in dialog.

jrpgs usually feature ridiculous, cliche'd stories. that's what he meant. not that they're story-less, but that their stories USUALLY aren't worth it and can't carry the game, since the battle systems usually aren't terribly engaging/too grinding.
a western rpg is not defined as being nonlinear you jackass.

And I think you are getting the meaning of world map confused here. I want my rpgs to have hills, roads mountains and forests to travel thru, not some static parchment map with a few points of intrest. That is not exploration, homie

i kind of wanted a more interactive world map as well so i don't have any prob with that crit.

nikki":3tt7ga1v said:
My idea of a true RPG is apparently very different from those of you who have it all wrong. Cant we just move past the story driven crap? For all intents and purposes, Dragon age is almost exactly like some jRPG minus the spiky hair. Its all about the story, and theres a few minor diversions along the way.

outside of the elder scrolls series and fallout 3, name me 5 big-development-company-made RPGs that are completely non-linear. go.

More than anything, this game needs a real "overworld" in place of that stinking map. I cant beleive I am even typing the word overworld in this day and age. Moving around on a map like that is like something from the old SNES days. It just seems like laziness to me.

lots of games still do it? hell if you play oblivion the way i do (fast travelling) you end up with the same result.

It does not matter what I think however. As long as there are people out there willing to overlook the massive flaws in this game and hype it like its the greatest thing ever, Bioware will continue to churn them out.

yes i hope they do. they are typically a very engaging experience and fun to play.
 
it's not an adventure game. an adventure game is Day of the Tentacle or Secret of Monkey Island or hell, even Myst. see my above post for info on genres.

Myst is a point and click adventure. Zelda is action adventure. But seriously, genres dont mean much to me unless they call it an RPG, then I expect certain things which this game lacks.

yes i thought that was actually a strong point. it gives you incentive to really fully explore an area before leaving it, instead of revisiting repeatedly.

You mean the thing about the sidequests re-using dungeons that you visit for the main quest anyway? You actually like that? No...thats just lazy game design. Hell, I could make a million "quests" for Morrowind in about an hour doing that. Just make an NPC who says they lost their favorite underwear in that dungeon over there, place a pair of undies in the corner of a room and viola. I just made a quest good enough to be in a bioware game.

what
there are like 230 planets you can explore in mass effect

230 to explore? Or do you mean 230 you can look at from your ship? The planets that you can actually LAND ON are very few and all pretty much the same. Either you find a science base or a mine and they all consist of three or four identical rooms. See, Bioware likes to recycle.

and also in this game the areas are pretty expansive, i mean i was satisfied with the size. it doesn't need to have 453243 square miles of wilderness and nothing to make it enjoyable.

That is your opinion. If you are satisfied with not having a real world to explore, who am I to judge? Myself, I found it VERY disapointing.

it sounds to me like you just want elderscrolls 5.
elderscrolls =/= the framework of all rpg's.
actually sometimes i find the total lack of linearityin bethesda games to make the experience less powerful. sure there's more to do, but there's little incentive.
dont get me wrong, i love elder scrolls. but i like bioware rpgs a lot more usually.

Nope, I could hate on bethesda all day long too. They just need better writers and actually add joinable factions in their next game and Ill be satisfied. But at least in their games I can make a character go wherever and do whatever I want instead of being forced down a set path. In Fallout3, after I had played the game "normally" a couple times, I made an antisocial survivalist character who avoided towns and lived off the land. Never did a single quest, never bought a single thing, just me and my doggy friend exploring the wasteland together. Thats a true roleplaying experience.

a western rpg is not defined as being nonlinear you jackass.

Well, non-linearity is not the ONLY thing a western RPG should have, but it is on the top of the list. And you can make yourself look foolish by calling me names over a stupid videogame if you want.

outside of the elder scrolls series and fallout 3, name me 5 big-development-company-made RPGs that are completely non-linear. go.

It HAS to be a big name developer? Those guys are the only ones who count now?

lots of games still do it? hell if you play oblivion the way i do (fast travelling) you end up with the same result.

Yeah, because bethesda got on track with the "big name developers" and decided most people think RPGs are too complex, and want the game to do all the "hard work" automatically. Oblivion's fast travel is an atrocity. It was handled much better in Morrowind, the last great RPG. You had to actually pay a guy to take you to a destination on a giant walking bug or a boat, or just walk there yourself. You didnt have a magic map that teleported you wherever you wanted to go.

Hey, Im glad you liked Dragon Age. I like it too. But its not an RPG. All the rpg crap they shoved in there only detracts from what would otherwise be a great "tactical" action adventure.
 
nikki":13vpfjuz said:
Well, non-linearity is not the ONLY thing a western RPG should have, but it is on the top of the list. And you can make yourself look foolish by calling me names over a stupid videogame if you want.

sorry i'm rather fatigued over your bitching about the linearity when that's not a problem. lots of people like linear games. i love them. it's not a flaw. it's a gameplay differentiation.

outside of the elder scrolls series and fallout 3, name me 5 big-development-company-made RPGs that are completely non-linear. go.

It HAS to be a big name developer? Those guys are the only ones who count now?

it has to be a game that people've heard of, yes.
i could name a billion little indie games that fit some really specific sub-genre if i looked hard enough; i'm talking about big titles that sell a lot of units. name 5.

Yeah, because bethesda got on track with the "big name developers" and decided most people think RPGs are too complex, and want the game to do all the "hard work" automatically. Oblivion's fast travel is an atrocity. It was handled much better in Morrowind, the last great RPG. You had to actually pay a guy to take you to a destination on a giant walking bug or a boat, or just walk there yourself. You didnt have a magic map that teleported you wherever you wanted to go.

what going on a bug and paying money to be teleported is -worse- than just going.
you're still being teleported?????
i've seen people make that argument against fasttravel before and what can i say except it's ludicrous.
"oh boo hoo they added an OPTIONAL FEATURE to allow me to get somewhere quickly without having to hoof it or bleed money"

Hey, Im glad you liked Dragon Age. I like it too. But its not an RPG. All the rpg crap they shoved in there only detracts from what would otherwise be a great "tactical" action adventure.

dude what an rpg is DEFINED as being driven by stats!!!!

like ok castlevania: symphony of the night. it was a platformer/action game. WITH RPG ELEMENTS
what were the elements?
STATISTICS
 
Heres the thing that bothers me most. RPGs seem to be de-evolving into something palateable for the masses. RPGs used to be the games that only the smart guys played, while madden was for everybody else. NOW they are making RPGs for dumbasses and it pisses me off. Mass Effect, oh how you hurt me. An RPG that takes place in outer space? I can land on different planets? I can make important decisions along the way? Oh boy, sign me up.

But the reality of the game was much different. An action game with a great story and characters but held back with some extremely bland and unintresting sidequests.
 
nikki":7su7qjsq said:
RPGs used to be the games that only the smart guys played, while madden was for everybody else.

i lol'd literally

yes final fantasy II and star ocean are definitely is a cerebral bouquet befitting only high-ranking mensa members, oh yes

p.s.
im still waiting on that list of 5 RPGs that are non-linear which bethesda has not made.
 
sorry i'm rather fatigued over your bitching about the linearity when that's not a problem. lots of people like linear games. i love them. it's not a flaw. it's a gameplay differentiation.

Sure, linear games are fun. But they lack replay value, and thats the number 1 thing I expect from an RPG. Dragon Age, Mass Effect, they just dont have what it takes.

it has to be a game that people've heard of, yes.
i could name a billion little indie games that fit some really specific sub-genre if i looked hard enough; i'm talking about big titles that sell a lot of units. name 5.

Arcanum and the first two fallouts come to mind. Lots of people talk about planescape but Ive never played that one. Gothic 1,2 and 3. I think the Witcher was open ended but Ive not played that one either. But this line of questioning reminds me of the saying "if your friends jumped off a bridge, would you?" Just because something is popular doesnt make it GOOD.

what going on a bug and paying money to be teleported is -worse- than just going.
you're still being teleported?????
i've seen people make that argument against fasttravel before and what can i say except it's ludicrous.
"oh boo hoo they added an OPTIONAL FEATURE to allow me to get somewhere quickly without having to hoof it or bleed money"

No, no, you dont understand. Did you even play MW? The fast travel in that game was logical, boats by the shore could take you to other towns near the sea. The silt striders would take you to places connected by rivers. And when all else failed, you could hire a guild guide at the local mages guild to zap you to another guild. Oh, and you also had the mark/recall spells which would take you wherever you placed the mark. But if you wanted to reach some cave way up in the mountains, (even though you had visted there already) you had to walk. Realism baby.

The fast travel in obivion is totally illogical but they went and made it essential since there is no other way to travel other than by foot.

dude what an rpg is DEFINED as being driven by stats!!!!

like ok castlevania: symphony of the night. it was a platformer/action game. WITH RPG ELEMENTS
what were the elements?
STATISTICS

Yeah, but the stats in DA are just tacked on. Its pointless. You are going to level up no matter what you do because the game forces you to fight through waves and waves of enemies. They could have just made it an action game, then Id have nothing to complain about.
 
Its the world map and the half-assed sidequests that bother me the most. If they fixed just one of them, then all would be forgiven. As it stands, DA is another Bioware game I will play 1 and a half times before setting it on my shelf to gather dust with all the others. Its just too bad really, I hate spending that kind of money on a game Ill only play once.
 
because i dont feel like quoting anymore

@ the fast travel thing

yes i played MW. i'll admit i missed the striders just because they were a cool concept. but here's a few things you're missing about why all those frivolous modes of transport were removed.

1.) striders were swamp-based transports. the land of cyrodiil has very little swamp land, rendering the striders unnecessary.

2.) in oblv you're expected to walk or ride a horse to your next destination. after that, you can teleport to it. once you have already made the journey, it becomes pointless to make it again--you already know what happens on the way. but, you still CAN make it again, should you so choose.

3.) if you wanted to get to balmora from vivec, it was an incredibly tedious necessity to force you to try and find the damned mage's guild or other teleportation service, instead of your just GOING there, and the game assumes you know how you got there. vivec was a humongous city and it was incredibly easy to get lost or stuck on the complete other side of where you wanted to go.

4.) it deducts travel time from your regular time, based on your stats and if you're on a horse, so it's not just insta-teleportation silliness.

5.) mark & recall were HUGELY useful in MW but in Oblv you could re-visit an area on a different quest and the triggers would be different--this could be exploited into bugs with mark & recall.

6.) i can't remember how many times i'd get pissed off about having to re-traverse the ashlands to get to some obscure location i'd already been to. or how annoyed i'd be with spending money to go to one city then go back and spend more. realism isn't a necessity in a game because reality is often filled with BORING and UNNECESSARY moments (damn it!!! there aren't any toilets in cyrodil!!! where will my character take a huge dump after eating too much wolf meat???)

ANYWAY

so your gripe with DA is about the stats system.
you could've just said that you know :|
 

mawk

Sponsor

uh you're welcome to not enjoy the game bro but all the points you've brought up to justify it are uh

yeah they're just really dumb
 
Oh, I like how you used logic to defeat my fast travel complaints. Still, there are rivers and oceans in Oblivion. I think the new fast travel they implemented was only to appease the masses.

Boring and unnecessary. I'll give you that, sometimes MW can become quite boring because its so huge and complex (relatively) but unnecessary? MW is chock full of stuff that serves no immediate purpose, dungeons that dont factor into any quests, NPCs who have nothing intresting to say. I call that a good thing. It makes the gameworld seem real. Not everything in the world was placed there to eventually be part of some quest.

I think RPGs naturally should have their slow moments. It shouldnt be constant action. Sometimes you should have to pause to think. And there should be diversions along the way just in case your ultimate goal is very far away.

And yes, my ultimate gripe with DA is the stats. When a game forces you to go through the same battles every single time you play...and the next battle the monsters will be scaled to whatever level you are currently at...why bother with stats at all? Why not just make a damn action game and do away with the pretense?
 
dr. goodlife":1rjeilse said:
uh you're welcome to not enjoy the game bro but all the points you've brought up to justify it are uh

yeah they're just really dumb


You just dont have anything else to counter my points except that Im dumb. Go ahead, tell me what I said that was so dumb.
 
Oh, and the personalities of Sten and Morrigan are a bit out there. Nobody is pure evil.

Anyway, I am off for now. I still havent finished the game just yet. I stopped for a couple days when I realised I was ALREADY near the end. I thought I was going to get to visit orlais and the marches or whatever its called. As much as I gripe about the game, I really dont want it to end. Thats the number one problem above all else. Theres just not enough content in it to satisfy my RPG appetite. Like Mass Effect, it seems like such a squandered opportunity. Maybe when all three of the Mass Effect trilogy is released and I play them one after another, it might actually seem like a real RPG to me.
 

mawk

Sponsor

other people be countering your points. I'm not gonna bother. it's just important to me that you know you're really dumb and have demonstrated this like a million times by now
 
dr. goodlife":1srvqv2u said:
other people be countering your points. I'm not gonna bother. it's just important to me that you know you're really dumb and have demonstrated this like a million times by now


Nice way to back out of a confrontation that you started, coward.
 

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