sixtyandaquarter
Member
And no one got the joke that I'd be in possession of a woman's top? In a cross dressing thread? Meh, wasn't that clever anyways.
Cross Dressing - Weird?
- Thread starter Xilef
- Start date
You know, I can see how someone would react badly to the idea of crossdressing, simply because it's an incredibly awkward thing to think about. We have rigid rules about people's roles in society, and whenever we get pushed outside that comfort zone we tend to panic and start busting heads. I think that may be the reason so many are so stubbornly opposed to gay marriage; men and women simply aren't expected to marry inside their own gender. All this stuff about "wrecking society" is doublespeak for "I feel very insecure knowing that things aren't always as I expect."
I don't see anything wrong with crossdressing. If it makes someone happier if they put on women's clothing every now and then, why do we feel such an incredible need to shove them back into their "proper" roles? The idea that people who crossdress are (dangerous) sexual deviants is baseless and, with some consideration, stupid. It's like saying that anyone who wears a red hat is more likely to kill if provoked. Well, if we had developed a stigma against men wearing red hats.
A lot of these "norms" in society are terribly arbitrary. Women wear pants all the time; are they wearing clothes that aren't appropriate for their gender? Lots of women wear their hair short; are they all lesbians? People have to learn to accept that they'll be spending some time outside their comfort zone. Also, really, what should we care what people do behind closed doors? Unless a man is systematically kidnapping and murdering citizens, we should respect people's privacy. If John wears his girlfriend Jane's delicates on his days off, that's his business, and it doesn't mean anything other than the fact that he likes to wear his girlfriend Jane's delicates on his days off. I really get the feeling sometimes that humanity as a whole would be happier if we didn't know anything outside our own front lawns.
I don't see anything wrong with crossdressing. If it makes someone happier if they put on women's clothing every now and then, why do we feel such an incredible need to shove them back into their "proper" roles? The idea that people who crossdress are (dangerous) sexual deviants is baseless and, with some consideration, stupid. It's like saying that anyone who wears a red hat is more likely to kill if provoked. Well, if we had developed a stigma against men wearing red hats.
A lot of these "norms" in society are terribly arbitrary. Women wear pants all the time; are they wearing clothes that aren't appropriate for their gender? Lots of women wear their hair short; are they all lesbians? People have to learn to accept that they'll be spending some time outside their comfort zone. Also, really, what should we care what people do behind closed doors? Unless a man is systematically kidnapping and murdering citizens, we should respect people's privacy. If John wears his girlfriend Jane's delicates on his days off, that's his business, and it doesn't mean anything other than the fact that he likes to wear his girlfriend Jane's delicates on his days off. I really get the feeling sometimes that humanity as a whole would be happier if we didn't know anything outside our own front lawns.
Yeah maybe we should start a trend where people all wear blindfolds and are guided by seeing eye dogs so as not to see anything offensive, and get all their audio through sound-canceling headphones preselected based on their personal beliefs, and then once we've got the dogs and blindfolds and headphones everywhere the rest of us will know who to laugh at. 
Nphyx":3ry96edg said:Yeah maybe we should start a trend where people all wear blindfolds and are guided by seeing eye dogs so as not to see anything offensive, and get all their audio through sound-canceling headphones preselected based on their personal beliefs, and then once we've got the dogs and blindfolds and headphones everywhere the rest of us will know who to laugh at.
No, you'll end up just getting a bunch of groups of dickweeds pissed off at all the seeing-eye-dog crap everywhere.
@Sixty: I got it, but I wanted to mention the twins somehow. ILU :lol:
Actingman00
Member
I wore a bra once for about 5 minutes. Those things are damn uncomfortable. Also I wore make-up as a joke.
I only consider it cross-dressing if they do it on a consistent basis.
I only consider it cross-dressing if they do it on a consistent basis.
Venetia":28x4i6ww said:
They'd all be wearing blindfolds, that's the beauty of it! They'd be stepping in shit, and we'd be laughing, and they'd be curling up their noses wondering what smells, and we'd laugh more, oh it would be hilarious. I would hate the dog shit all over though >< Maybe we can get them seeing-aibos instead. Aahahahah.
Oh, @Actingman00: Nope, sorry, according to public opinion you're a flaming homosexual now, might as well go find a parade to march in.
Beadly_Dastard
Member
sixtyandaquarter":33os1j88 said:
2nd Rule of Debate: Fit the phrase "social contract" into as many sentences as you can in as little time as possible when debating.
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While on the topic of rules, I have a few thread-specific rules in my archives:
Beadly_Dastrard's New World Order Rule #26:
If you cannot tell the gender of a person by simply looking at their back, the person of unidentifiable-back-gender is to recieve instant death.
Beadly_Dastrard's New World Order Rule #27:
The instant death that I mentioned above is to be inflicted by Chuck Noris in any manner that he sees fit.
Venetia:
No pls, you just killed like 7 baby kittens with the hijack makingDissonance
Member
jbrist":mqlntgcj said:
Your 'moment of open ranting' is just you showing off your internalization of cultured 'gender roles'. In fact, natural thought within you has become SO SUBVERTED by this ideology of "TWO SEXES WHERE SEX = GENDER" that you actually believe that everything you're saying is 'natural'.
Long story short, you're a fucking retard. :3
bashful crobat
Sponsor
JBrist, if you're going to attempt to argue using completely subjective bollocks, stay out of the symposium.
"Normal" is not a valid argument until something is dangerously abnormal enough to harm the person or the people around them. It's true that some CDs and TGs look really awkward and out-of-place, they're likely more than aware of it, but they choose to do it anyway. Some make the transition smoothly and are hard to distinguish in a "normal" crowd (Buck Angel, hottest ftm TG ever as an example). By your logic, disabled, ill and otherwise "weird" people should shut themselves inside or off themselves, too. That's hardly a "normal" mindset; perhaps you should kill yourself.
"Normal" is not a valid argument until something is dangerously abnormal enough to harm the person or the people around them. It's true that some CDs and TGs look really awkward and out-of-place, they're likely more than aware of it, but they choose to do it anyway. Some make the transition smoothly and are hard to distinguish in a "normal" crowd (Buck Angel, hottest ftm TG ever as an example). By your logic, disabled, ill and otherwise "weird" people should shut themselves inside or off themselves, too. That's hardly a "normal" mindset; perhaps you should kill yourself.
Personally, I find that to begin with like Sixty said clothes are unnatral to being with so saying crossdressing is unatural to me is just a bit unlogical in the sence if you don't think regular dressing is as well. Basicly clothing is just piece of cloth we drape upon ourselves for whatever reason and I don't see why we should dictate what type of that cloth should be placed upon ourselves. People should be able to wear what they want no matter how crazy or ridiculous it is in the end, because for the fact of the matter is, it's really not hurting anyone. I don't see the big deal if a man wants to wear say a dress. I mean if you aren't forced to wear it, who cares? Like look the other way, ignore it, it doesn't matter. There are SO many more things the world should be stressing about, besides something so rediculously trival such as clothing. There are bigger issues in the world people!!
On another note someone brought up women being socially acceptable to wear mens clothes. Well let me point this out. It's ok for a woman to dress up as a man, but degrading if a man dress up as a woman. It's perhaps because society thinks it's degrading to be a woman. (perhaps that's another debate though?)
Hmm I belive there's Gender sexual prefrece (as in bisexual, homosexual etc) and Gender Indenitity which is that above there. I really think it's a natural thing and not psychological for a couple of reasons. 1) society tries way to hard to fit gray things into black and white slots. None of us are really fully female or fully male in our personalties anyways so I don't see how something like that is really so far fetched. 2) There are people with naturally more hormones of the oposite sex more than they are normally supposed to, so if that is so is it still purely a compleate psychoclogical thing? I mean if we can be born with other defects why couldn't this be a possiblity as well?
Besides to become a transgender you must undergo SO MUCH psychlogical theropy before you can have the operation. It's a requirement because of the fact that person could have a deep, deep problem like you suggested. It's a filtration system for that, but not EVERY ONE is like that.
Anyways to really some it up. Things aren't so black and white and if it's not directly effecting your life or others or hurting anyone, what do you care?
On another note someone brought up women being socially acceptable to wear mens clothes. Well let me point this out. It's ok for a woman to dress up as a man, but degrading if a man dress up as a woman. It's perhaps because society thinks it's degrading to be a woman. (perhaps that's another debate though?)
Venetia":14xtmz4l said:
Hmm I belive there's Gender sexual prefrece (as in bisexual, homosexual etc) and Gender Indenitity which is that above there. I really think it's a natural thing and not psychological for a couple of reasons. 1) society tries way to hard to fit gray things into black and white slots. None of us are really fully female or fully male in our personalties anyways so I don't see how something like that is really so far fetched. 2) There are people with naturally more hormones of the oposite sex more than they are normally supposed to, so if that is so is it still purely a compleate psychoclogical thing? I mean if we can be born with other defects why couldn't this be a possiblity as well?
Besides to become a transgender you must undergo SO MUCH psychlogical theropy before you can have the operation. It's a requirement because of the fact that person could have a deep, deep problem like you suggested. It's a filtration system for that, but not EVERY ONE is like that.
Anyways to really some it up. Things aren't so black and white and if it's not directly effecting your life or others or hurting anyone, what do you care?
sixtyandaquarter
Member
And at the same time plenty of women are uncomfortable with two women, but likewise are equally aggressively against two men being gay.
Just a quick comment on that, I don't think that's even a far enough point to reduce the argument to. I mean, how can you really be female or male in terms of personality except by arbitrarily defined (or nearly so) ideas about gender roles. I'm not talking about gender identity here, simply the idea that certain traits are feminine or masculine. If a person likes to cook, or sew, or care for children, and that person is male, does that mean he's "more like a woman" in that respect? I think that's silly. Likewise if a person likes sports or the outdoors or engineering, does that make the person "more male"? Once again, silly and arbitrary. My wife is a gamer geek, I taught her how to build PCs a couple years ago too, and we both love camping and hiking; I like cooking, decorating, and that sort of creative thing; neither of us are in the least bit gay or have any gender identity issues and I certainly have the more "masculine" role in the relationship generally speaking (haha she may disagree!)Raven The Dark Angel":3cjf629q said:
Dissonance
Member
Cassy":2qjmnn6j said:
1) you should be able to go naked, in terms of what's "natural". Nakedness is more natural than any clothing
2) I ABSOLUTELY 100% AGREE THAT IT IS FUCKING WEIRD, and furthermore i can't offer an explanation as to why it is weird
HOWEVER
...just because something is 'weird', is not a good enough reason to ban it. It's related to the idea of "gay as nature VS gay as a choice"... does it really matter? I mean assume it suddenly turned out somehow that being gay is actually a lifestyle choice and not at all determined by nature - is that a legitimate reason to ban it? Of course not. There is no logical way to make the jump from "making an odd choice" to "banning that choice".
Raven The Dark Angel":2qjmnn6j said:
JESUS CHRIST
Cassy":2qjmnn6j said:
Yeah, you are a total douchesponge. "lol i will link to a picture of an ugly tranny just to 'wake people up' so they realize what we're talking about!!! appeal to emotionz lol!"
http://xs124.xs.to/xs124/08085/traps812.jpg[/img]
Guess the sex. Also, whatever you guess? You're wrong. I know the answers, and even before I knew, I didn't care - I'd do it with any of em.
Hell, not knowing what's in their pants is actually better - surprise spices up the sex life.
Hey guys, make sure you know the difference between actual transgenders and cross-dressing before debating lots of this stuff. Transexuals are people who were pretty much literally born in the wrong body (ie. a woman born with the wrong gentalia who is trying to become who she feels she is). There are also people who crossdress not because it helps them feel more comfortable, but simply because they like dressing as someone of the opposite gender (ie. a dude dressing like a chick).
Related to the subject of homosexuality, transexuals often aren't actually homosexual, but would be perceived as homosexual by a lot of people. There's nothing wrong with a woman who loves a man, right? But if that woman is in a man's body, she's suddenly a homosexual man? Not true- she's a "regular" straight woman mentally, just born with sexual organs that don't make heterosexual sex possible.
A lost of time, crossdressers (those who do it just for the sake of dressing up and having fun, etc) are actually homosexuals. And then again, sometimes they're not- they might just be people dressing up as the opposite gender for the hell of it.
Related to the subject of homosexuality, transexuals often aren't actually homosexual, but would be perceived as homosexual by a lot of people. There's nothing wrong with a woman who loves a man, right? But if that woman is in a man's body, she's suddenly a homosexual man? Not true- she's a "regular" straight woman mentally, just born with sexual organs that don't make heterosexual sex possible.
A lost of time, crossdressers (those who do it just for the sake of dressing up and having fun, etc) are actually homosexuals. And then again, sometimes they're not- they might just be people dressing up as the opposite gender for the hell of it.