[BT] Outlaw City and Outlaw City Dark Past

[Wings]

This took me six hours (on the dot) to beat.

At first I didn't enjoy the game all that much, possibly because I really didn't read too much into it from the start. However when playing it, it kind of grew on me.

There were some very well thought out puzzles in that game which made achieving your goals just that much harder. NPC interaction could of been better instead of the ever present cold shoulder, but I suppose it kind of goes along with the city in general.

All in all it was a pretty good game, even though the last boss (I hit the guy well over one hundred times) and the bugger still wouldn't die.

Good job

EDIT: Also, I am not a big fan of RTAB...but whatever makes you happy

 

[Twin Matrix]

Hey, Wings, where do I go to after being the Tha'stean? I can't go back through the puzzle because I only have the yellow color and can't break the other crystals in the puzzle.

By the way, what's up with all the dislikin' the RTAB? I love the RTAB because it makes battles much faster, thrilling and realistic.

 

[Anaryu]

You can go back, talk to the white crystal to have it teleport you back to the entrance.

 

[Wings]

Hey, Wings, where do I go to after being the Tha'stean? I can't go back through the puzzle because I only have the yellow color and can't break the other crystals in the puzzle.

By the way, what's up with all the dislikin' the RTAB? I love the RTAB because it makes battles much faster, thrilling and realistic.

There are different coloured crystals in that puzzle that allow you to return to the entrance just in case you don't make it back to the colour circles in time.

EDIT: What he said ^ :p

EDIT again: I am more of a tactical kind of guy myself. It really doesn't give you a chance to sort through different skills and plan your attack strategically. You could do something along those lines, but you will be hit multiple times before getting the first shot in.

 

[ryanwh]

You just have to learn to think a little quicker

 

[Wings]

Apparently I thought quick enough to beat the game

 

[Anaryu]

I'm a very tactical person myself, that's WHY I went with (honestly anything except pure-turn based) RTAB.

You see, when you everyone gets "one" move per turn, suddenly you lose an entire aspect of combat: speed. Who gets to move first is a negligable advantage, since you only really have to plan ONE turn ahead then; and even then only if your AGI is very low and you can't go before said target.

With a system that allows free movement based on your AGI, suddenly AGI becomes a "useful" stat! Instead of just pumping up STR or INT (depending on your class) suddenly getting to do your attacks FASTER has a very strong benefit to it!

It also allows for things like "casting time" to be taken into effect.

You see, to balance a skill you have to balance several factors:
1. Cost to user in HP
2. Cost to user in MP
3. Damage
4. Accuracy
5. Element (how common/rare it is)
6. "Extra" costs to use the skill
7. How long until you can use it again

Many skills which I left with a casting time I would have had to "nerf" otherwise, make them cost more, be unavailable for more turns, etc, to make them from being too powerful.

Dark Sovereign's "Beam Pillar" and "Lightning Storm" are perfect examples: Without leaving her open to attack and unable to defend, recover HP/Stamina, etc, I wouldn't have been able to make those attacks half as useful as they were. If you've used these often, you've probably had some nasty monster use a Stamina drain attack and make it so the skill fizzles! That disadvantage is one way I helped to balance out the damage of the skills.

Active Systems give battles more POTENTIAL! When you make an enemy, what do you do? Are they all cookie-cutter monsters with the same stats and only different elements perhaps?

No, some use magic, some use physical attacks; some are average in everything while others are strong in only one area. Suddenly you can make a foe very fast and hit with nasty minor annoyances which accumulate quickly! You can make a boss suddenly go berserk and raise his speed, thus letting him pound you into a pulp without just "giving" him a bunch of super attacks that kick in at 25% HP or such.

Before this system (before I knew about RTAB) I built 2 combat systems that were 100% turn based like the DBS... no matter how hard I tried to make things fun or different, it became too much overhead for the user. An ENTIRE turn was lost to use a skill that let's you use a different skill: Now to make that second skill useful you have to make it even MORE powerful, basically at a minimum, 2x as powerful as a skill that takes 1 turn to use just to even out the advantages (not counting state changes and cost to stamina).

Take into effect how I used the system to include things like:
1. The Defend command being USEFUL! Your turn recovers 2x as fast, and you heal yourself for more.
2. Speed Powers: Like DS's Charge ability, which doesn't make her waste an entire turn, but instead "half" a turn.

I think I've blabbered a bit much, but I WILL say that RTAB is MORE annoying than a normal battle system when your system exists for 2 commands:

Attack
Item

In those cases, there is no real point to RTAB, that is true, and all it does is make an already dull battle even MORE dull.

Watch the bar... Attack.
Watch the bar... Attack.
Watch the bar... Attack.
Watch the bar... Item!

Rinse and repeat.

 

[ryanwh]

RTAB is equally redundant 90% of the time. Its just a contest to press the enter button as soon as your bar fills since in most games doing this allows you to beat most enemies without ever really needing any other move. Your system is an exception, not the rule. Most RTABs suck tactically.

 

[Anaryu]

Most systems where you just the same attack over and over suck tactically, RTAB just makes them that much more tedious. ^_^

When you use "Attack" over and over, your only real "tactical" decision is which monster to center your attacks on first. This may seem like a big decision, but since enemies don't have a lot of balance, or don't take time to build up their attacks (ie. if a monster has a particularly nasty attack, they can use it in the first turn, Poison attacks as an example) so killing them first only serves a strong tactical purpose if you kill them before then.

My system has a bit of an advantage because I'm more than skilled enough with scripting to program in any effects that I want without needing a "plug and play" combat system. All I wanted out of RTAB is the AGI->Turn effect, and the Casting Time.

It is very possible to make a good battle system with the Default setup, I just find that many of the features I want are lost when you take that path.

 

[sandgolem]

I usually hate the RTAB but this was different enough to be really enjoyable. The battles and the advanced skill configuration/learning really make this stand out from the usual RMXP games

One question, is money good for anything other than giving it to the beggar?

Found your first "impossible" monster btw, the sewer dragon. Or rather, I'd have to level up for an hour or two to even stand a chance

 

[Anaryu]

Leveling up would do you almost zero good, all monsters in the game "level" up as you do. When a fight is initiated, all of the monsters stats (except for SP) are reduced based on the average level of your party (my stat and damage system is based on %, ie. STR = % of your weapon's damage you can perform). The scale I use to reduce monster stats is identical to the one which RAISES hero stats, so 50% of the dragon's max power is at the same level as 50% of your character's max power.

So you could level to level 99, but that would just put the dragon also at it's maximum level, which will mathematically end up at the same level as your party.

The only advantage you could gain is that you'd be able to put more points into your powers or have more powers available.

 

[ryanwh]

Hah, you thought of everything >_>

 

[Anaryu]

I've been playing RPGs for more years than I care to remember, but there were a couple things that always bugged me:

1. Uselessness of Magic.
2. Limitations of MP.
3. Item spamming.
4. Being forced to level up to or having fight be completely boring/short.
5. Attack command spamming.
6. Lack of "difficulty" level for games that were too hard/too easy.
and a few more.

Basically the way to build a good combat system is to sit down and say:

"What combat systems do I hate/love the most, and why?" it's easy to find common elements among all those games; FF7's Materia system was great, but you eventually reached a point where the only "challenging" fights were the Weapons; so your power did you no real good.

The one aspect I would have liked to add but didn't dare (the system was getting complex enough already!) was Double/Triple Techs (one of my favorite of all time from Chrono Trigger, greatest game of all time).

 

[Twin Matrix]

What are double/triple techs..?

 

[Anaryu]

Basically it means that 2-3 characters join skills to use a new skill. In Chrono Trigger you would choose from the Dual/Triple tech skills if the characters who participated in it were ready, but in the RTAB situation, one person would use a skill with a casting time, and a second would use their skill while that one was still casting and they would combine to create a new Skill of your choice.

 

[ArtBane]

I would love a script like that. Right now I have a script that randomly does it and it doesn't go off as much as I like. But it does have its interesting quirks like combining skill names. One cannot resist to yell out a move like "Squcleave".

 

[Anaryu]

RTAB has a system for that all scripted up, works like a charm, my demo for my other project (a huge one that will likely take a year or two to finish) actually uses it.

It's hard to balance those, because if you make it too useful people will always use it, and if it's not useful enough, it's better to use the two skills instead. :/

 

[ryanwh]

Trickster tends to tackle any script that's articulated well and that will pose a challenge to him. He'd probably make it if you asked.

 

[Twin Matrix]

Basically it means that 2-3 characters join skills to use a new skill. In Chrono Trigger you would choose from the Dual/Triple tech skills if the characters who participated in it were ready, but in the RTAB situation, one person would use a skill with a casting time, and a second would use their skill while that one was still casting and they would combine to create a new Skill of your choice.

I'd prefer the casting time combined skills, because it needs focus and fast fingers to initiate.

Also, you wouldn't have to "nerf" the combined skill: just make the casting time shorter for the used skills or something. That way it's harder to initiate and could fail sometimes. Of course, you would have to use pretty weak starting skills; with the short casting time and all.

The game's ending was pretty anti-climatica the first time I completed the game. I walked around town for quite some time trying to continue the story. Plus, I never saw New Game+ pop up in the screen... Wish I would have lost the final boss fight with Marlus' (sp?) second form, so there would be some climatic scene afterwards in which zeh hero girl commits suicide. It feels a bit like: "Oh my god, Black Tuesday istomorrow! How do I end the game?! Oh wait, I know: they beat the boss, split up and I'll leave the hero to wander around town without purpose. Yay!" :-/

 

[Anaryu]

I'd prefer the casting time combined skills, because it needs focus and fast fingers to initiate.

Also, you wouldn't have to "nerf" the combined skill: just make the casting time shorter for the used skills or something. That way it's harder to initiate and could fail sometimes. Of course, you would have to use pretty weak starting skills; with the short casting time and all.

The game's ending was pretty anti-climatica the first time I completed the game. I walked around town for quite some time trying to continue the story. Plus, I never saw New Game+ pop up in the screen... Wish I would have lost the final boss fight with Marlus' (sp?) second form, so there would be some climatic scene afterwards in which zeh hero girl commits suicide. It feels a bit like: "Oh my god, Black Tuesday istomorrow! How do I end the game?! Oh wait, I know: they beat the boss, split up and I'll leave the hero to wander around town without purpose. Yay!" :-/

Actually she does say she should just "go home to her apartment."

Try checking your closet. ^_^


On another note:

Someone let me know if they can beat this combat score by sandgolem:
5.23616