Bisexual Debate, to celebrate Bisexuality Day

[___]

I got an idea: stop trying to shove people into or exclude them from broad, vaguely defined categories of sexuality. I don't care if you like sex with men, women, or carrots, in private or public, with one or more than one partner, wearing or not wearing any variety of apparel, with or without the aid of any assistive objects. That's all called sexual taste and as long as it's not hurting anyone / thing in ways they don't/can't consent to I don't see the need to round it up into categorical groups, since they rarely apply and are not useful in any analytical sense.

 

[Icedevimon13]

Wow, there are days for everything in these times @_@ Missed the main discussion, it seems, but...

I'm bisexual. I've fallen in love twice. First with a girl, second with a boy. I still love them both dearly and value the life lessons I have gained from them. I never heard of this pansexual thing before, but trust me, it's not who I am. Generally I really, really don't love, let alone like, all people. Most others just annoy me >_< and I tend to avoid them completely, unless I am approached first, as is what happened with these two people. So there goes the whole idea of being like this for attention.

I guess if you subscribe to the kinsey point of view, then yes true bisexuality is probably very rare. Personally I'm more right than left, but I still am attracted to men in the correct circumstances, so I consider myself bisexual.

 

[Grathea]

Well, devim, that sounds to me more like some variant of asexuality. Perhaps demisexuality, not sure.
Also, the thing with the Kinsey scale is while it was a good approximation for the time, it really isn't all that effective anymore.
Ideally, you'd need a three-dimensional graph, with axes for 'male - female', 'androgynous - defined' and 'asexual - sexual' instead of artificial labels like 'straight' or 'gay'. Sexuality is incredibly complex.

 

[Venetia]

I agree with Nphyx in that classifying sexuality is frivolous. Human sexuality is such an incredibly multi-faceted thing that it's pointless to try and stamp a label on someone.

Just do what you do, like what you like, and roll with it. The less we label people, the less we'll discriminate.

 

[p-hop]

I agree with Venetia, sexuality is something that escapes words. Labelling oneself as a  

 

[Ellie]

I'm Wyattsexual. I.e. who cares what the fuck I like I'm never gonna get any of either.

Personally I don't see the point of declaring your sexuality, even if it is clear cut or not, unless someone specifically asks you out on a date. Nobody needs to know what you like except your partner, or not-partner as it may turn out (for example if a girl asked you out and you told her you didn't like girls). It's really not that important, it's like you don't go around telling people what colour underwear you've got on :/

 

[Venetia]

Well the only problem lies not in the notion of running around TELLING people you're gay, but the societal anxiety of seeing same sexes together, or "fitting in" socially.

Like my problem at work, or were I to ever have a female life partner. I'd feel very put-upon and uncomfortable in a public setting. And that really sucks. I don't want to run around telling people I like boobs, but when a bunch of the guys are going out to a strip club, why should I have to decline just because "I'm not supposed to like that sort of thing", and their opinions of me/actions around me will change forever?

It's actually a little infuriating when I'm excluded from conversations or actions involving women. But then I can't be mad at anyone, because it's not their fault they don't know how I am. It's easy to assume I'm straight as a pole since I'm married. It's just ... Stifling.

Being the way I am puts me in a strange limbo. It's not really BAD, I'm not about to complain and start picketing outside of somewhere (where would I picket anyway?). But it's very odd and unnecessarily so.

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

Personally I don't see the point of declaring your sexuality, even if it is clear cut or not, unless someone specifically asks you out on a date.

Live in a life where the boots you wear and the foot prints you make with them have the air of something dirty that should be shunned, stabbed at, and looked at with disdain, with a majority of the world spitting at you.

Gay pride parades didn't start because "Oh look I'm proud to be gay" they started as a means to get the word out that it's OKAY to be gay, and that you don't have to pretend, you don't have to hide, you don't have to be the cog fit into the machine someone else built, that someone else is using, and that no one will repair.

THAT is why people identify themselves sexually.  It's easy being straight, it's easy being someone who just doesn't have sex.  No one HATES you for it, and even if no one you knew did, if you weren't those, you still have the sense that people do - because of all the hub bub and negativity it sells.  It's fitting into the mold YOU want.

 

[___]

I think it'd be nice if people kept their sexuality in the bedroom (kitchen, car, park bench at 9pm, bathroom at the bar, etc.) and their noses out of the bedrooms (etc.) of others (unless they're invited).

 

[FlippyD]

Actually I think people should be able to define the stuff they like in general. Fuck that whole "Ooh, like who you like and like who you will forever and ever" hippie bullnuts. I'd like to find someone to love and be with, and I'm sure most people who aren't in a relationship here would too. Having some sexual amalgam of "what I like to put my stuff in when and were" is confusing and inconsistent. People should be able to decide on who they like and what they like or else keep quiet until they can figure out what the fuck they're all about.

It's simple people, you keep it to yourself until you get into a relationship and you tell the other person off the bat "y'know, I like plain-jane sex most of the time, but the first tuesday in june during a leap year I enjoy covering myself with oily bags and bumping up against a goat." The problem is so many people just don't know what the fuck they want, and it winds up screwing everyone over in the end. It's not hard to stick to a fucking side and meet someone who's cool with your other stuff. I'm tired of being in relationships with people who fucking flip the fence every month cause they're not sure what they want, then everyone acting like that's ok.

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

I was out last night and I had joked saying happy day after bisexuality day, because I knew someone in the room was bisexual, or at least pansexual (whatever, fine), and a discussion came out.  Where it shouldn't be advertised...

If you don't advertise, well put it this way.
The bisexual or gay guy who isn't the stereotypical bisexual or gay, who doesn't like the stereotypical gay music, who doesn't like the stereotypical gay stuff... most of the non stereotypical stuff here, well I'm being very nasty about it.  Let's look at the stereotypical gay, he's loud, obnoxious, talks with a lisp, can't stop dancing, has designer hair cuts, super clean, oily tan, etc - basically a person we see on the media a lot, yet someone I've never met (including in the west village).

Now, if your not that, your the stereotypical manly man - except you like gay sex too.  You like power tools, you can't cook, you're hairy and don't shave as often as you should, you watch sports and scream and rant when the other team gets a touch down, and cheer and knock cheeto's everywhere when you jump up for joy when your team does, you have big heavy boots that weigh an extra 20% thanks to the dirt and grit packed onto the sole, you don't own a clean stain free white shirt, etc.  If your that guy, without defining yourself, without advertising yourself... how do you find someone?

Humans naturally fear rejection.  Yet we have cravings.  I like certain fetishes, but you know what?  I happen to find women who enjoy them as well, why?  Because I do advertise.  Because I let it be known.  I happen to find women who don't enjoy it, and if the talk talks place and they want none to do, then fine we simply don't do it.  But if I'm bisexual or gay I shouldn't have to buddy up to some guy, sit at the bar, and have the talk to talk about, and if they don't want none to do, then fine we simply don't do it.  I should be able to see and know.

I may not want to wear a sign, but I certainly would want to know.  I may not want my neighbors to know, but at the bar - the normal bar, not a gay or lesbo bar, not a straight bar, just a normal bar... because they do exist you know, I should be able to find out without having to resort to "keeping it to myself".

You have to advertise.
If you don't, we're all guessing and you end up with someone who is completely interested in something your totally against doing yourself, and your wasting not only their time, but your time, and lost time with a potential nother.  Great.

 

[FlippyD]

Ignore my earlier bitter angry old-man post and put sixty's in its place. ^

 

[ChronoStopPosting]

I literally have no idea what I am... lol, um... Honestly, I think I'm bisexual... b/c I won't do it with anyone, there's no "gray" area for me, it's a man or a woman... shemales are disgusting (Even though it's usually not there fault their like that) umm... I would NOT sleep with a gay... but I feel like I'm comfortable around them like, "certain" things that I'm not going to go into detail about... but not only would I never GIVE it, I wouldn't TAKE it either.... it's just nasty...

 

[Despain]

Honestly, I think I'm bisexual...

I would NOT sleep with a gay... but I feel like I'm comfortable around them like, "certain" things that I'm not going to go into detail about... but not only would I never GIVE it, I wouldn't TAKE it either.... it's just nasty...

:psy:

 

[___]

@Ixis: I think not knowing what you want is a general human problem, not just a sexuality problem. Knowing oneself is an uphill battle for a generation of pathological liars, all suffering from massive cognitive dissonance, who don't even have a large-scale cultural identity to default to anymore. What I mean by that is that people have a vague image of what they think they should be that's narrowly defined by a clique they want to belong to, and they have a distorted, egotistical idea of what they are defined in terms of the ways they do and don't comply with their chosen stereotype, and then somewhere buried under all that is a real personality. What do you expect?

I think once that problem is fixed you'll just naturally gravitate toward other people who want similar things and also know what they want. But nobody will reach that point, advertising or otherwise, until they understand themselves very well and are comfortable with that understanding.

@ChronoStopE: I don't think you even know what sexuality is, let alone what type you belong to, go home and talk to mom and dad about the birds and the bees and the gay birds and bees and come on back

 

[ChronoStopPosting]

Mr. N. That made no sense at all... I know what sexually is... Mine just depends on what you consider gay, straight, bisexual, and pansexual to be...

 

[Venetia]

Sweetie, you're 15. You'll have no clue who you are, sexually or otherwise, for years.

 

[Icedevimon13]

I'm not sure I agree with you, Venetia. I knew who I was when I was twelve, and haven't changed my mind since, seven years later. Though I'm not defending Chrono's argument. There is so much there that contradicts what was stated and screams hypocrisy and confusion.

 

[FlippyD]

Mr. N, I expect people to be better than that, even though I know they will fail. I like to hold myself and everyone else up to a general set of standards, and I can only hope that sometimes people see that and agree, or do the same. It's not ok to believe that since society is flawed, to just let it run its course. I fully understand that sexuality can be confusing when you're young, but I'm talking about people who've graduated from high school. I used to act like I was into certain people according to the clique I was trying to emulate, but once I was 18 I realized it was stupid and grew out of it. Not to mention I knew all along the kinds of people I was interested in.

I honestly don't understand how someone could be so confused about what they're into sexually because it never was a question for me. But if it's true, and it is confusing for a lot of people, then I'd expect them to hold back and go on a fucking "feel good movie of the year" style self-discovery trip narrated by Morgan fucking Freeman.

But no, so many people seem confused, and just go with the flow mindless of who they actually are and cause problems for themselves and others, and I have no patience for people my age who still wander around wondering what they are and think that that's ok. We left the ambiguous and confusing drama off at high school, time to grow up.

 

[Grathea]

Yes, ixis, labels are useful to an extent, but it seems that as a culture we've practically fetishized labels and the act of labeling.
And any method of really classifying sexuality via a series of more-complicated labels is just not going to work out in the long run. Which is really a shame, because labels make things clearer, at least at first. But they ARE an artificial thing, and that's reflected in the fact that they're really quite fluid.
Gender and sexuality are both natural, but the way we as a culture DEFINE sexuality in terms of gender is an artificial construct. Which, as I said, is a shame.

For example, I just spent a minute or so trying to work out a simple graphical way to represent sexuality.
I came up with this:

x-axis: attraction towards defined/androgynous appearances
y-axis: attraction towards 'male' and 'female'
z-axis: sliding scale of asexual to sexual
Annotations: third gender, bi-gendered, genderqueer, etc...

I had to add annotations because there's so much out there that it's really impossible to keep everything in a series of happy little labels.

And Chronostop, that's very sad to me that you feel that way. Not the innate hypocrisy, but that, and I quote: "shemales are disgusting".
Just so you know, it's a)not a personal choice for them, it's how they were born. Transgenderism and all its sub-categories are perfectly valid. Also, the phrase 'shemale' is generally considered quite insulting. I don't work in pornography, and neither do most transwomen. So why would you use an absurd label created BY pornography that fetishizes a community who can't do anything about it? Just an FYI from your friendly neighbourhood gratheo.

Ven, I'd like to argue that it is possible to know who you are, or at least that something is up, at the age of fifteen, and even younger than that. It's rarer, yes, but still possible.