Yay for Gays!!!!~~

[Ellie]

Nobody's saying there can't be big ceremonies o.O and if you're religious then sure, have a religious wedding. What the argument is, is that those people who aren't religious should have the option of marrying with terms not relating to religion (ok so that's a bastardisation, but basically everything above this post).

The two sides can coexist perfectly. And if you wish to have rules set on you based on your religion you are more than welcome to do that, just don't be upset if other people don't want to follow them too!

 

[nikki]

People who think their existance and desires can all be explained logically and scientificly should have little need for any sort of ceremonial activites IMO.

Anyway, whatever. The govt control over marriage has gone on for so long, I doubt theres any chance of changing it. Religious people will just have to deal with it.

 

[Venetia]

There's a saying, Don't say something if you know no one will listen. Seeing as 100% of the responds are positive, I won't respond negatively.
I'll only tell you I just came back from a lovely wedding. Man and woman in love- so much you could see it on their face, a ring, an exciting religious ceremony, and.. I can't explain this, it felt right. The thought of something so sacred as marriage being ruined makes me sad. But, it's a lost battle. No one cares how we, as religious people, feel. We're too 'old' and not enough 'progressed' to be taken seriously.

People of the same sex can be just as in love and just as romantic. The only reason why it wouldn't feel right is because you're preconditioned from childhood to be against it.

If I and everyone around you always told you that bananas were poisonous your entire life from infancy, and then when you became an adult and went off to some other place and you saw people eating bananas--wouldn't that feel a little off?

And who says that marriage would be ruined at all? It's not like men and women will be disallowed from marriage :P

Ok.

Example 1: Two 80 year old women who have been deeply, deeply in love and lived together and raised fine, healthy children together for 51 years. They finally are able to marry because a law was passed to extend to them the same rights as anyone else.

Example 2: Two 18 year olds (boy and girl) meet each other in a bar and, while piss-drunk, get married down the street at a 24-hour-chapel, then annul it the next day.

Which is a worse affront to your faith?

 

[Incognitus]

Which is a worse affront to your faith?

The position of moral absolutism that many of the anti-gay preachers take would suggest that the answer is undebatable - and both.

Of course these are usually the same preachers who take the stance that one cannot have morals with the 'good' book'.

 

[Venetia]

There are direct excerpts from the Bible stating clearly that a woman's place is to be a possession of her husband and she is a lesser being. Do you believe in that?

"No wickedness comes anywhere near the wickedness of a woman.....Sin began with a woman and thanks to her we all must die" (Ecclesiasticus 25:19,24).

"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I don't permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner"
(I Timothy 2:11-14).

"The birth of a daughter is a loss" (Ecclesiasticus 22:3).

"Keep a headstrong daughter under firm control, or she will abuse any indulgence she receives. Keep a strict watch on her shameless eye, do not be surprised if she disgraces you" (Ecclesiasticus 26:10-11).

"As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)

"When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening. Anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. Whoever touches her bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Whoever touches anything she sits on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, he will be unclean till evening" (Lev. 15:19-23).

"If a man takes a wife and, after lying with her, dislikes her saying, 'I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,' …and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of the town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you." (Deuteronomy 22:13-21)

"A bad wife brings humiliation, downcast looks, and a wounded heart. Slack of hand and weak of knee is the man whose wife fails to make him happy. Woman is the origin of sin, and it is through her that we all die. Do not leave a leaky cistern to drip or allow a bad wife to say what she likes. If she does not accept your control, divorce her and send her away" (Ecclesiasticus 25:25).

"Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God…A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head" (I Corinthians 11:3-10).

"They called out to Lot and said, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Send them out to us so we can have sex with them!"
Lot went out to them at the entrance and shut the door behind him. He said, "Don't do [this] evil, my brothers. Look, I've got two daughters who haven't had sexual relations with a man. I'll bring them out to you, and you can do whatever you want to them. However, don't do anything to these men, because they have come under the protection of my roof." (Genesis 19:5-8) <-in the same parable containing the only verses against homosexuality

:/

why is it ok for you to pick & choose what you believe from this book and follow it, and not ok for others to do the same ...?

it's not like you'd be forced to watch the weddings. It's not like pastors wouldn't be allowed to choose who they want to marry.

It's not like people don't get un-religious weddings (me!) :|

Not a single word about god was said at my wedding and it was done by a clerk of the circuit court instead of a priest. Is that an affront to christianity too @_@

 

[craybest]

Silver wind has resumed pretty well what most religious conservatives think, they just don't FEEL it's right, and that's their whole argument. They can try to hide it behind religion, or traditions but in the end they just FEEL gays are icky.
EDIT: I STILL can't understand how straight marriage will be RUINED because gays are allowed to marry, that special ceremony silver wind saw will continue to happen many times, no matter if gays are allowed to marry or not, so how can it be RUINED?
It's like I'm having a party tonight, and then I find out that some other person has a party next weekend, now my party is RUINED? because I'm not the ONLY one who throws parties in the world? Nonsense.

 

[silver wind]

Now, now, I never said gays are icky, and I don't think so.
It's hard to explain this to nonreligious people, it's like our mind works differently. But I'll try. :D
If someone paints a picture of Jesus with a tutu skirt, that would upset Christians. It doesn't matter if the artist believes in Jesus or not. It's just offending, because Jesus is the most sacred things in religion. Because he must be painted in a certain way. Does this hinders the rights of artists? maybe, but there's no necessity to draw that image anyway. Apply this to marriage, one of the base columns of any religion. I just don't get why gay people must marry. Hell, so many couples live today without being married- by choice!
It's like when they HAD to have a parade in Jerusalem. They were offered to make it in Tel-aviv, a city which isn't sacred to 3 religions (all against gays), but NO. They needed Jerusalem. I know everyone have the need to be accepted, but you must also accept that some people don't accept you. pluralism and its wonders..
If gays will be registered by government as a 'couple' to get the normal rights, it should be enough. No one tells them not to live together or whatever, and if they want a ceremony let them have it, why must it be called a wedding? It's another "In Your Face!" scenario.

 

[Venetia]

no, all gay people want is the same rights extended to all people. if civil unions or domestic partnerships were observed the same as a marriage then there wouldn't be a problem. but they are not!

with marriage you get tax breaks and insurance cuts and a credit boost and all kinds of special rights extended to you. they are observed in hospitals when referring emergency care to people, they're used when power of attorney comes into play if one partner is incapacitated. it is easier to adopt when married. custody of children relies on it almost entirely. when you have a civil union you get ... well, uh, nothing.

they are upset because it's not even separate but equal -- it's just NOT equal!

it's not about gay people going "haha jesus IN YOUR FACE lol" you can call the services whatever the fuck you want to, but people shouldn't be denied rights!

 

[craybest]

Thanks Ven, I wanted to answer that but my internet died after I finished typing my answer...

 

[So fist]

Hey Silverwind. Quick question concerning degrees of insult to the sanctity of marriage. Is a golddigger, let's call her Anna Nicole Smith, marrying a dusty eight decade old geriatric for the sole purpose of robbing his children of their inheritance with her lawyer boyfriend more offensive to sacredness or sanctity of marriage than Adam and Steve (who genuinely love eachother) getting hitched? If not can you explain why?

Sincerely,
A religiously minded person

 

[friend]

I don't know about you guys, but I get a feeling we will get more deaths on AIDS.

 

[Venetia]

lol what

 

[bacon]

What I dont understand is why Gay Marriage ruins Marriage period. Its called minding your own bussiness people. If a gay couple and a straight couple get married on the same day, do their marriages affect one anothers. Honestly, do they. I mean honestly, some people act like its the end of the world when they think about a gay person marrying. I stupid, to be honest with you.

Adoption, whats the big deal if a gay couple adopt, honestly its better for the child. What worse, having a child starving in a shelter where they sit there waiting for someone to adopt them, or a gay couple giving them what they need such as love, food, shelter, toys, ect.

Whats the difference between gay people and straight people.
I can think of one...
one likes men, the other likes women. Can you name another. I cant. What if president Obama announced to the country that he was gay. Would that change anything about him...anything at all other than he like men. No, it doesnt. He still is the same president and the same person.

 

[Incognitus]

What if president Obama announced to the country that he was gay. Would that change anything about him...anything at all other than he like men. No, it doesnt. He still is the same president and the same person.

I don't know...

It might undermine his integrity as a family man. And it would be interesting to see what Michelle O' would make of it (I suppose Obama is the one styling her after all).

Still - I suppose Middle America got through Clinton...

 

[bacon]

lol I forgot he was married.

 

[Eddie]

I've mixed feelings on this issue myself. Should homosexual people be granted unions/marriages? Absolutely. This is a free country, and love is love, even if a bird falls in love with a fish, or a man another man. Who am I to tell someone that they can't love someone. To me, that is absolutely wrong, and in no way can you argue otherwise without getting into the silly religious nonsense... but without offending anyone, I go no further on the subject of religion.

What I will say though, is its obvious that all the problems of the world seem to relate to religion. The muslims have their gihadists and the christians have their terrorists who blow up abortion clinics or gay clubs... its just rediculous. Why can't we mind our own business? And further more why can't we just live in peace?... All the hate is uncalled for... it makes about as much sense as my appendix... a useless body part that has no particular role, except to possibly one day burst with toxins, only to your body's degradation.

>.> I sound like a hippy.

 

[Eddie]

People who think their existance and desires can all be explained logically and scientificly should have little need for any sort of ceremonial activites IMO.

Anyway, whatever. The govt control over marriage has gone on for so long, I doubt theres any chance of changing it. Religious people will just have to deal with it.

I find this comment a little bit narrow-minded myself. I'm not Christian, Muslim, nor am I Jewish. Just because I don't belong to one of those institutions doesn't mean that I don't have respect for the human soul. I believe in god, and I'll leave it at that. I think logically, in terms of anatomy, its obvious the male was made to mate with a female soley on the basis of scientifical reproduction, but where I draw the line in this argument is this... it is not my place to tell a human being what to do with themselves, or their lives, or who they can and can not fall in love with. Not all gays are atheists, and while that may seem like a contradictory statement, keep in mind that Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are not the only religions in the world.

I will say this: Love is truly the greatest thing in the world, and as the Christians teach, this was God's greatest gift... I think most ethical people... mostly anyone in general, would agree that love... TRUE love down to its core is worthy of ceremony and being remembered. Whether it is an act to honor god, or to only honor the union being made between the two participants. Again, I don't think it is anyone's place to say who this union, or this "love" can and can't be made with.

 

[Guest]

;D

 

[Twirly]

I don't get why people complain about gay marriage...
If you are married, you are married by law. LAW.
You know what law is? That thing which is supposed to be separated from religion?
You actually just have to sign a paper and that's it, you are married !!! If you want to have a wedding, you can have an un-religious wedding too.
The bottom line is, bringing religion as an argument against marriage is bullshit, since marriage can be completely separated from religion.

 

[Guest]

;D