What is so wrong with homosexuals? I mean really?

[Sketch]

I'm torn honestly on a topic like this one. I'm a believer that being homosexual is more of an environmental choice than an outright born with thing.

I'll clarify...I believe that due to environemntal influences, they can affect how a person feels/acts towards members of the opposite or the same sex. Their relationship with their same sex and opposite sex parent, influences from relatives, socitial standards, etc etc....many of these can in several way affect a child to the degree of them either 'staying' straight or 'becoming' homosexual.

However, I also believe in this part of the bible: Love the sinner, hate the sin. I am a Christian man. Am i perfect? Fuck no. Hell, even cursing is a sin to some. But it proves a point. Non are without sin, so to have any one person act above another in -any- regard is itself a sin. The one of Pride.

Anyway, those 'Christians' (were you sure they were Christian? Probably were, but some people simply assume and that kinda gets to me...like assuming all lesbians are man hating dykes, or all gay men are limp wristed fashion designers) are what I like to call Zealots. See, there is a fundamental difference. I'll explain:

A normal Christian (I like to refer to myself as this honestly, as I am Non-Denomonational, but still read the bible/pray/believe in God/etc) is one who Loves the Sinner but hates the Sin (there it is again) and yes, according to the bible homosexuality is a sin. HOWEVER, I am -not- one to witness (That's the act of simply talking about god to someone who is interested) to someone randomly, or to denounce their choice of lifestyle openly to them, no matter how much I may personally disagree with it (Unless it was something really bad like...killing babies or something, to set an extreme example). If someone is open to me discussing it with them...I will. Homosexual or not.

Zealots are those who see themselves as the moral pillars of religion and society, and that things haven't gone to the shitter because of their endless vigile against all dark and evil things. These are the people who openly (and publicly) denounce Gays, Abortions (Another hot topic...I don't agree with it, but I understand it's purpose...hell, Under certain circumstances I encourage it), who hold the signs 'God Hates Fags'...basically everyone who dosen't share the same religious world view as they do. And I use the term religious as something different than what most people would expect. A friend of mine (Another Christian like myself, but much more open about it) once told me 'Religious people are the ones who feel like they have to prove their worth to god. The simply fact is, you don't have to go to church, sing, praise, etc publically to get him to know your worth. He already knows your worthy of his love and gives it freely. We just have to accept it in our own ways.'

So, those people are more aptly termed zealots than 'christians' because they give the rest of us bad names. God loves everyone. Even someone like Osama Bin Laden (Yes, he loves him just as much as he loves the world's most perfect christian) Why? Because that is what god -does-. For someone to denounce another openly is not the way things should be. It's between that one person, and god. Judge not lest ye be judged. Only God can lay down any judgement. Hell, God may just shrug it off and figure 'What the hell, he's a homosexual, but he lead a -good- life. Come on in to the Glory of Heaven.'

That's just how I personally feel on the supject...and I really think the world would be 100x better if just a few more people shared the same views, and weren't so 'in your face' with their having to prove themselves as good christians/people of faith.

**EDIT**
Forgot to mention why I'm torn so much....lol...but I think the message got across ok. Basically I don't agree that homosexuality is a born with thing...but a choice (albeit a possibly forced one) and to that end I do think people can change if they want to. But if someone dosen't want to change, it is not my place to force them.

 

[ryanwh]

I dont mind gay people, but slutting your shit around regaurdless of who you sleep with is not cool with me. I have every right in the world to be uncomfortable around the gay guy in leather with a codpeice, or the "will and grace" gay that needs to remind people that he loves gay sex every 10 minutes. If a straight person did that, Id be equally uncomfortable.

 

[FoxDemonSoavi]

I agree with you there ryan. But I think striaght folks need ot stop doing similar stuff. Private life is private life man.

 

[AceJP]

People don't choose to be gay, they choose not to live miserable lives of sexual represion and denial that they might feel is imposed upon them. Sure, if you're gay, you could always grit your teeth, marry, have kids, be unhappy. Many people have made that choice, down the years, but it's unreasonable to expect people to make it. You can't choose not to be gay. You can choose not to have sex with women, but it won't make you happy.

http://www.peoplecanchange.com/Root_Problems.htm

I think anyone who belives that you cannot choose NOT to be gay should take a look at this website. I have a friend who struggles with homosexuality (I say struggles, because he is christians, and does not wish to be homosexual) and he showed me this website and said he agrees with everything they say, on this particualr page.
Homosexuality is not something you are born with, and NO study proves otherwise, if there is one, post a direct quote from the study itself otherwise it is just here-say and that hold no water.
Check out the website and see the psychological issues behind homosexuality. Any homosexuals who are involved in this thread, I would be interested to see if you can identify with osme of the thing they talk about.

Peace

 

[LegacyComplete]

i dont really like people who are prejudice (sp?) towards homosexuals, im bi, and lots of online friends from the states constantly bug me about why i shouldnt be bi, guess what.. they're all hardcore religious..

i have nothing against religion, but it gets out of hand....

 

[Roman Candle]

That article is a crock of shit, and it pisses me off. The statistical methods are appauling - taking a survey of people who are insecure about their homosexuality - and taking them as average representatives of the group? It's frankly laughable. You take people that are trying to escape their homosexuality, and you ask them why they are gay: Of course they don't say "It's just that way". They want to believe that they have control. For instance, in cases where the boys have been abused, (a very high proportion of this sample), they are likely to associate feelings of fear, disgust and self-hatred with their own sexuality.

It annoys me that the link between homosexuality and effeminicity isn't put into context as a trend of recent times, as for the foundation of their arguments, "opposites attract". For the ancient greeks, masculinity meant homosexuality. To them, since men were so much better than women, sex with men must be better than sex with women. To them, women's role was purely a reproductive one - ironically, exactly the position men feel in now with the advent of cloning from eggs. How the world does turn :lol: The idea that a man must love and be with a woman in order to 'be a man' is not permenant.

Of course, the reason I find this article so offencive is this:

homosexual feelings were not the problem but were actually symptoms of deeper, underlying problems and long-buried pain that usually had little or nothing to do with erotic desire

Firstly, I object to calling homosexuality a problem or a symptom of a problem. Then there's the dismisal. "Oh, gay people aren't actually gay. They're just confused". What is this refusal to admit that men can love other men? First the line was "It's not love, it's lust". Now it seems to be "Gay relationships are actually seeking to fulfil old emotional problems. So men still can't love men".

The key problem today in trying to understand homosexuality is that I don't think it's all the same. For instance, some people are turned on by men and women. Most of these people assume that this is true for everyone. I myself refused for several years to believe that my friend was actually straight. I simply didn't understand the concept of not being turned on by sex, (I still don't think it makes sense); I thought people who thought they were straight were just being silly. Yet lots of men simply can't get an erection from gay sex or porn. Now, many of these people consider themselves straight. From their point of view, they have chosen to be straight. Often they have little patience for people who come to them claiming to be gay, and to not be turned on by women. Perfectly understandable.

Then there are people that are simply gay, or simply straight. For no particular obvious reason.

Then, I believe, fetishes come into it. Most people think having a fetish is just being kinky, like being into bondage or whatever. However, a true fetish is where all sexuality is transfered from normal things to ones that they are exposed to at critical times. For instance, many children of a certain age play with their mother's shoes: they are acknowledged as special objects, treated carefully, closely associated with the body; in a prime position therefore to become fetishistic objects. Instead of being aroused by women's breasts, they are aroused by women's feet. Instead of finding perky nipples attractive, a high arch of the foot is important. It's all shifted around. Now, if this fetish was formed on a penis, what becomes of the child? Instead of being aroused by women, it's men's genitalia which are the focus. So they're gay. If boys are exposed to penises at the right time, might they not become gay?

And for the record, let's get this straight (aha). I do not feel that I am deficiently masculine. I just really like sex.

 

[Jstreet]

Imo, I think people need to get their own fuckin business...enough said. If everybody stopped worrying about everybody else the world would be a better place. ^_^

 

[Volrath]

^ - Amen to this.

I honestly can't understand why people feel the need to control the lives of strangers, especially where the activities of these strangers do not affect them whatsoever.

Something like 30 kids died the other day in Lebanon as a result of the conflict there. People need to get some fucking perspective.

 

[BlueScope]

@J: Well, religion is the first instance stopping what you said. Religion is - from the religous people's POV - a way to make the world better, and the world doesn't consists only of those, so they need to bug others... well, that means your idea is good, but it won't work :P

@Article: It passively says that homosexuality is some kind of illness, which is simply absurd. We're out of the 17th century, grow up, folks...

 

[Brimstone-x]

I just don't male gays or Bi's,I don't mind the female ones, But what I Really don't like, is people who get Sex Changes, Cross Dressing is one thing, but when you get a sex change your taking it to the extremes.

 

[Cortez]

I just don't male gays or Bi's,I don't mind the female ones, But what I Really don't like, is people who get Sex Changes, Cross Dressing is one thing, but when you get a sex change your taking it to the extremes.

If you ask me, Changing Sexes isn't taking it to the extreme at all, but in a way toning it down. There are people who honestly believe that they are in the wrong gender (science has proven that hormones can be mixed up and it is possible that there are women in man's body, and vice versa). I think that if someone gets a sex change to their "correct" gender instead of living a lie is a lot better.

Onto the homosexuality thing, I see it this way.

There's nothing wrong with being gay.

There's also nothing wrong with believing that being gay is wrong.

There are gay pride parades and protests all the time. There are gay bars, gay parties, gay events, television shows...you name it. It's great, because it shows that the world is becoming more accepting of this.

At the same time, it's wrong to allow that and say that Christians can't speak there mind. If the christians REALLY think that they're trying to help you, you can't blame them, really. If I was gay, and a Christian came up to me, and was talking to be, telling me that it was a sin and stuff, I'd probably be offended at first, but if the person actually sounded sincere and like he wanted to help me, I'd probably thank him for caring and leave it at that.

He might seem wrong and bigoted, but if it's what he really believes, we have no right to put them down, either.

When they start getting violent about it or start limiting your rights, that's another story.

 

[Silas]

meh, I always wondered abou tthe double standard, where guys are OK with lesbians, but not gay guys.
Personally, i dont think people are less for being gay, i just wouldnt choose to be game. Girls are to sexy

 

[g_man_450]

For the ancient greeks, masculinity meant homosexuality. To them, since men were so much better than women, sex with men must be better than sex with women. To them, women's role was purely a reproductive one - ironically, exactly the position men feel in now with the advent of cloning from eggs. How the world does turn :lol: The idea that a man must love and be with a woman in order to 'be a man' is not permenant.

Talk about mistaking the few for the majority. I can assure you this was not the view held by most Greek males. You'll learn that in any ANE class. Why do you think female temple prostitutes were so popular? It wasn't because the men valued homosexual sex. Though they did think less of women, the majority did not hold a high view of homosexual sex.

Sorry for the off-topic retort.

I agree with those who have said, "If you're going to be gay, don't throw it in my face. If you're going to be straight, don't throw it in my face."

 

[Ariel]

Imo, I think people need to get their own fuckin business...enough said. If everybody stopped worrying about everybody else the world would be a better place. ^_^

I agree with you.

The world would be a better place if people would just mind there own business.

I believe in god and all, but since who the hell are we to judge gays?
I have respect for gays\bi, but people who say "Gays should burn in hell" is
wrong and evil.

A real christian would leave people alone, and never dare to judge that person unless you know them for awhile.

 

[Rare]

We were walking and these christians (I think witnessess) acost us and try to tell us that we are evil and sinning and to repent.

Thats not like witnesses at all. They would never humiliate you in public like that; at least the ones Ive seen dont.
The topic on homosexuality is a religon based thing. Its simple, your religious=you follow the standards. Not=Do what ever you want (And may suffer consequences)

 

[Roman Candle]

Erm, could you please clarify that? Which standerds? Are you saying that if you aren't religious, then you don't follow the standerds? Or that all religious people follow the standerds of their religion?

 

[Rare]

Yeah, I mean there are different standards for each religon. If your not religious then you can follow whatever standards you want. For instance, Christians usually follow bible standards, Arabic follow the Quran (how ever you spell it, sorry). Hope thats more clear xD

 

[Cortez]

I know some gay christians.

 

[Roman Candle]

The Bible says that gay sex is a sin, therefore if you have gay sex, then a Christian should feel guilty about it. You can be gay and believe in God, you just probably won't be very happy.

 

[Roman Candle]

But there are a great many allusions. Like sodom. And of course there's the ever present problem of translating the original Bible scriptures, which can be a bit dodgy. Some people argue that what you're not supposed to do is sleep with 'Male prostitutes of the temple'. I'm not really sure on that, I've never read the Bible through and certainly not in Greek. Similar issue with the whole 'Seven Days' concept. Half the time people are telling me that it does mean day, definitely; then there are people telling me that it means 'period of time'. Then there are people telling me that no one actually knows what the original word means, and that it's an assumption. The worst (and best) thing about the Bible is that it's not just a list of laws; it's made up of stories, letters, accounts, etc, that can be interpretted in many ways.

I checked through the various arguments a while ago, (Wikipedia has a lovely blow-by-blow version of most of them), and it did seem that those claiming that the Bible endorsed homosexuality were a bit stretched. For instance, the "King David is gay" theory :P