What is so wrong with homosexuals? I mean really?

[Minkoff]

No. The original meaning of bastard is almost archaic. People might find out later what it means, as a miscillanious point of interest.

Well you are right to some extent. It is not used that rarely though. I'm sure you've heard the term "bastard child" a few times, and when you did it probably meant born out of wedlock. I will give you that it's used for its original purpose significantly less than gay though, and it is not a good example to draw parallels to.

Some people really do think that everything gay is everything bad. And every time you use gay as an insult, you are validating that view for them.

Honestly, though homophobia is common, (I am pulling this out of my ass here, but this is totally based on my experiences) it is getting less common. As I said in my last post, at least around here, it's taboo to be a homophobe. Everyone understands that when you say gay, you don't mean the other gay. Everyone.

Because you are jewish, it's ironic. ie you obviously don't think that Jews are totally stingy. Your friends, and anyone around you - whenever they say 'Jewed', it's clearly not because they think Jews are bad. That whole idea is a bit outdated anyway.

You might not notice it because you aren't a Jew, but there is a fair amount of very non-ironic, genuine racism towards Jews. Remember that thing with Mel Gibson? And don't forget an entire genre of jokes at our expense. See, "Jewed" isn't a problem, even when it's not ironic, because I know what it's supposed to mean. I know it's not about me.

Of course I can't insist that you accept a word that offends you just because there's a similar one that offends me. And I do understand that your situation is a bit different. The thing is, words that have the potential to be bad are not always bad. It's all a question of context. So, around my friends, we'll say gay all we want. We're all intelligent, open-minded people. We all know what it means. If you were hanging around, I wouldn't say it because I know it ticks you off. I wouldn't ever hang around a bunch of homophobes.

But when any random person, who's doesn't know/has never met someone who is actually gay, who's thoughts on the subject are ambigous, goes around calling things gay, it doesn't work in the same way.

I don't know, maybe that's true. If they don't mean it offensively though, they don't mean it offensively. I don't think it has the evil subconscious effect that you seem to think it does.

 

[Granas3 REMIXED]

I am incredibly anti-christianity. (no satanist/emo jokes please)so i like to find fault with they're religion whenever i can. And THIS is a doozy. The magic man made everything exactly as it was about 4500 years ago. Some animals are gay. That would mean either
1. God intended things to be gay or
2. We EVOLVED the gay gene.
I apologise to any christians, i realise that you believe some of these things, but, there it is.

 

[Anonymous]

That's true. I have yet to hear any anti-homosexual religous person adequately explain why homosexuality occurs in animals. Most notably wolves, raptors, and pigeons. And not only under abnormal or stressful situations, either, homosexual partnerings among pigeons are relatively common, even when mates of the opposite sex are available. In any given pigeon croft, there will be at least one female-female or male-male nest. (I'd also love for someone to explain how something as fundamentally stupid as a pigeon can "choose" to be gay.)

 

[Beenz]

I used to think it was discusting and stuff until I was about 13, cause I've got this bisexual friend and he's really cool (he goes to all my gigs and bought 3 of my albums lol)

 

[Lene]

I am incredibly anti-christianity. (no satanist/emo jokes please)so i like to find fault with they're religion whenever i can.

Aren't you as bad as the homophobes then? People just need to stop hating across the board. *sigh*

 

[Minkoff]

Aren't you as bad as the homophobes then? People just need to stop hating across the board. *sigh*

Thinking something is bad is completely different from hate/fear. There is a good case for most religion being harmful overall, even if you don't agree with it.

The fact that "Granas3 REMIXED" put it like a complete idiot probably doesn't help his case though.

 

[Granas3 REMIXED]

sorry, didn't realise that was so far back. can't find it now, but how did they prove that Raptors displayed homosexuality?
Yeah, that wasn't exactly the best syntax...Generally, i don't like belitling peopes faith, but Christians keep trying to shove theirs down my throat. (Unrelatedm, but..)I had to go along to a church picnic with my brothers church recently, and EVRYBODY just kept trying to convert me.

 

[Erk]

Uh, Granas, you were at a church picnic. There are times and places, many of them, where trying to convert someone is rude. However, a church picnic is not such a place. They have a right to practice their own religion at their own religious events! By acting like there is something wrong with it, it's you who is being intolerant. It would be a different matter if someone was following you on the street or coming to your house, but give me a break!

To push this back on topic, the problem is not necessarily the religious dislike of homosexuals so much as the consistant illogical revulsion people feel. Many of those people are not religious.

 

[Sailerius]

Yeah, I think that's the thing. Religion has nothing to do with it--it's just a facade, a scapegoat homophobes use to justify their revulsion as Erk put it. It's really depressing how a book that preaches love and tolerance is warped into a weapon of hatred.

 

[FlippyD]

I saw this topic and I couldn't help but post my own thoughts on it, so, meh...

Answering the first post:
Alright, look, some people are intolerant to others, that's it. I don't see why you asked the question in a rhetorical sense? The answer is obvious, and posting it in this sub-board seems... Well, anything I'd say to end that sentence would open a can of worms.

Civil rights... Civil liberties... We've been all over this before.

However, I have a very unique take on the subject, so if you'll permit, allow me to shed some light from my own perspective.

(Hold on, this thread was started back in... July you say? oi vey...)

Well, the lack of any counter-argument, in favor against homosexuality tends to make people want to post in an anti-Christian way. Or, better put, with any lack to counter-argue your rhetorical question people are left up to debate "what's up with those Christians?"

Original.

I'm Christian, but I like to think of myself in a special sub-group of Christians I like to call "Christians who can read." We're the smaller group of Christians who don't wear that fact like a bumper sticker. We think Jesus was a cool guy, and that he (or his father/mother/thingamabob) made dinosaurs a long-long time ago because Jesus knew that dinosaurs kicked major ass.

We're Christians without that nasty dogma after-taste. It's better for you, and you can actually invite us to parties without fear of us going on a witch-hunt.

Also, I'm bi, or as I like to say "I just really really like sex, so shut-up and take your pants off already." True, this has caused some animosity and much stepping on toes to people who I know who are Christians (but don't read Scientific American or the Bible, apparently.)

That said I have nothing against homosexuals... Well, homosexual men that is. Whenever I see two women together a knot of anger builds in my stomach, and I'll tell you why...

Hint-hint, it's not because a pastor once told me Jesus smotes girls-gone-wild.

I don't like seeing two girls together because it summons, in me, a feeling of hatred, anger, sadness, and all the rest of those emotions you'll see on the back of a Disney movie box. I had a girlfriend, but then she cheated on me, with another girl, and never apologized. Instead she simply said "that's the way it is" and dropped the subject like a newborn baby giraffe. I tried going to my friends for comfort, but they were struck with a zealotic dogma, not unlike that of the Right-Wing Christian, just reversed.

They all felt it was in their own right to support her actions (as under-handed as they were) because going against it might make them look homophobic. Or at least against the idea of same-sex relationships.

It's true, the people who are against homosexuality just for the hell of it (cause some guy/gal on a podium with a heavy book written hundreds of years ago by a bunch of jews that wandered around the middle-east randomly) really have no reason to be. But by the same token people who merely accept it straight out make me wonder as well. Do they really have something against homosexuality, yet are afraid to voice their opinions?

I know when I first was exposed to the idea of same-sex partners I was a bit irksome (and why not? I was a child born and raised in a small Chicago sub-burb, and I had not yet grown to the person I am today.) Eventually however I grew out of it, and developed my own opinions on the matter. However, it seems unfair to question the way people feel deep down inside.

I don't think you shouldn't be with whoever you're with, I think everyone should be happy. At the same time I think everyone should be free to voice their own opinion (even if it's ignorant and misinformed. At least that way you can open the door to debate and possibly change that person's perspective, and isn't that what living in a post-modern culture is all about?)

The ironic thing is my first boyfriend left me for a girl because he didn't want to be seen as a homo, or something. So I want to raise the question "if you're whatever sexual makeup, do you feel that gives you the right to do whatever it is you wish?" I'm not accusing you or anyone else of doing what I've described others I've known as doing, but it seems that homosexuals like to raise this rhetorical question all the time, so I'll counter with one of my own.

If you want to be loud and in public you have to be willing to take a little flac from people. I personally relish in these little ignorant instances of default Americana civics.The woman who hurriedly crosses the street to avoid walking near me because of the color of my skin, the man who stares at me for being close to a white woman, the woman who stares at me for being close to another man. I find acceptance nowhere, and so I take pride in being different for everyone else. I cause unpleasantness in people just by sitting in a room. Just by existing I'm touching peoples lives, and in the end, it's better than the reverse.

I'm out
*passes the mic off to someone else*

 

[Dirtie]

That's true. I have yet to hear any anti-homosexual religous person adequately explain why homosexuality occurs in animals. Most notably wolves, raptors, and pigeons. And not only under abnormal or stressful situations, either, homosexual partnerings among pigeons are relatively common, even when mates of the opposite sex are available. In any given pigeon croft, there will be at least one female-female or male-male nest. (I'd also love for someone to explain how something as fundamentally stupid as a pigeon can "choose" to be gay.)

From a Christian point of view (non-evolution), the reason is simply that animals aren't governed by the same rules as man. God placed human beings on the earth as the superior lifeform and a capacity to form logic and make choice far beyond the level of animals, with our own set of laws. That's not to say that we should kill, etc. animals for pleasure, as the Bible states that man's original purpose was to be caretakers of the earth and its inhabitants. However, the welfare of humankind is placed above that of animals, just as the will of God is greater than the desire of man (except this is to a much higher and more purposeful extent).

Even saying all this, it is also possible that God's original intention was not to have "homosexual partnerings" in animals that usually reproduce heterosexually - this could have come as a result of sin entering the world just as carnivorism was stated to have done.


As far as the argument over the new and old covenants go, may I remind you of Matthew 5.17:
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."
My understanding of this is somewhat limited at this point in time, so I don't pretend to hold all the answers, but someone who professes to follow the word of Jesus cannot deny that this statement means that his teachings are not as a means to replace the law of the old testament at all.


Personally I'll agree with what has been stated multiple times already in this thread (albeit in different language) - if you disagree with homosexuality, don't hate the player, hate the game.

 

[Lene]

I was talking to my friend who is not Christian at all but she's Nicaraguan and she's mentioned that she knows that really really late at parties (like past midnight) is when all the homosexuals are able to "come out" and do what they do. Well my anthropology teacher also mentioned that this happened when she was living in Mexico at several of the parties she went to.

Is this a Hispanic thing? I dunno.

Anyways, anything that happens there are is a huge huge secret. You just don't talk about who does it. After the party they just go back inside the closet. (Although unfortunately for my friend's future brother in law, he got my friend angry so she wasn't inclined to keep anything in confidence).

Anyways I don't really have much reason to post this but I was wondering if anyone knew more about this.