Transsexuals

[Ellie]

First of all:

• This thread is not about transvestites
• This thread is not about cross dressers

What are your thoughts on transsexuals?

Transsexual here meaning somebody who was born as one gender, who believes they either should have been born a the other or should be the other.

Do you think someone can just "become" transsexual?

Do you believe that a "man" can be born into the body of a "woman" and vice versa?

Should transsexuals have the rights of their former gender or their new one? Which toilets do they use being the overused example.

If someone asked to be called a certain name, or she instead of he, would you oblige, or would you have a problem with that?

Do you think there is an age at which everyone experiments and has these issues? Will they simply... grow out of them?


Don't answer these questions as a list, just there as some food for thought.

Lets set the ball rollin. ~

 

[Vadon]

A lot of my comments in the gay v straight topic are somewhat applicable here. I think we invest too much energy in trying to establish gender roles. I don't know why we as a society need to come up with identities of 'man' and 'woman.' Personally, I'd prefer if folks were just folks and it wouldn't matter what their self-conceived notion of identity was.

That being said, with transsexuals in particular, their identity is associated with their body, that is to say their physical sex. And while deep down I wish we didn't care about gender, I recognize that it's simply not going to happen. Therefore, if transsexuals wish to be identified by some other name or pronoun than what would seem intuitive, I'm more than willing to accommodate. My only wish is that they be understanding if I occasionally slip up and forget. :smile:

As far as what rights a transsexual has, if they've elected to change their sex, or if they perceive themselves as a different gender; I've no issue with them enjoying the 'rights' of their 'new' gender.

Does it matter if these feelings are temporary or not? It brings no harm to any other person for people to be not only tolerant of transsexuals, but accepting. If a person ends up being 'indecisive' in the future, I think that speaks a judgment on the person themself that they may not know who they are, but I won't let that paint my opinion on transsexuals in general.

I answered all the questions, but that's because I thought they all brought some interesting things to think about.

 

[Kuahewa huki 'ino]

Well, if it's what they want or need to feel right, then it's what they want or need. I commissioned a doll from someone who stopped making dolls and did this a bit later; that's cool, her... his(?) work was fantastic, and it degrades neither my opinion of the person nor his past works. Though I wish he still made dolls, the one I got is absolutely great and it would probably be happy to have a friend.

People do have an age at which they feel experimental and tumultous. It's a bad time to make a big decision like this one. From a constitutional standpoint, it's impossible not to forbid it past 18, but from a common-sense one, if it was possible, they ought to at least make the age for such a life-changing decision a bit higher, though money is definitely a limiting factor here. A teenager might be disillusioned and not completely understand that being a different gender won't make everything better; even just five, seven years later, they're much better equipped for making at least slightly-wiser decisions.

 

[Venetia]

i've always been open and respectful of any sexual or gender identity or preference, and i always look down on those who are openly bigoted about it.

but sometimes transexualism, to me, feels like a practice in self-defeat.

people who feel like they were born in the wrong gender just seem to me like people who've always longed to be pilots but were born colorblind.

if they work really fucking hard and really try to cover up the things keeping them from their goal, they might pull through in a makeshift way. Make it in a convincing way to others. But they'll always know, deep down, that something is wrong.

genetics aren't iron-clad. most people smarter than a thumbtack know that the line between genders isn't really that thick. sometimes people're born with multiple genders, sometimes people're born with no gender, and sometimes people're born in the wrong gender. it happens and it's honestly pitiable. because they are a secreted, closeted minority, and they will always know it, deep down.

you look around on a walk through town. you see a guy, and you don't even assume he's got the right plumbing down there. you just instinctively know and pass over it. it's one of the most primordial pieces of our nature. gender is such an influential characteristic to us as higher-order living creatures that we don't even cognitively recognize it 99% of the time.

let's say you're a guy. you go out with a woman. you have a great time. shit gets heavy. you go back to the apartment. then bam, she's got a unit.

up until that point, you had never even guessed. you never even thought about it. her gender was undeniable because that was what you recognized at first glance and that's what gender she was portraying. but you, as a man who has learned the ins-and-outs of gender roles, and as a man who knows anatomy, and as a man who is learned in the ways of what's "right" and "wrong" culturally, are put-off.

however, you place a man in the same situation which has no knowledge of anatomy, no inkling about what a woman is truly supposed to have, and he only knows what he himself has. he will still know that something isn't the way it should be. what's different, though, is that he won't be put off by it, because he will have nothing instilled within him mentally to tell him it's wrong.

it's society that builds gender roles, and makes life difficult for people who fall just outside those roles. there's not really anything wrong with wishing you were another gender. but even after a sex-change, there'll be nothing to stop you from, deep down, knowing that you're still lying in some way. you're either going to be lying mentally or lying physically. hopefully before any large medical procedures, i hope these confused people come to a decision as to which lie they're willing to deal with--or if they're simply trying to hide from facing a larger demon by assuming it's all based on their gender.

i won't sugarcoat things and say that everyone can be whatever they want because they can't. but they can try, and try to forget why they're always trying to run from their identity in one way or another.

 

[Falloutfan]

I have a transsexual friend that I haven't seen in years. (M2F) He felt he was born in the wrong body. Lots of confusion. A very nice person. Intelligent, funny.

I think that human biology has the potential to be awfully confused. Both mentally and physically. Considering the diversity of the human race, it's not surprising to me that packaging errors can occur.

I think that questions about gender identity is a normative part of human development. At some point however, most people settle in one niche or another. In other cases, a Doctor or parent makes a decision at birth, or the person in question corrects what they feel to have been a problem not-of-their-choosing.

What's disconcerting to me, is the suicide rate of transsexuals. Last time I checked, it was about 31%. It's clear to me that while gender related issues are something that requires more study, the mental health community is not yet up to speed in addressing gender questions in a reliable manner.

 

[Feldschlacht IV]

I don't really know a lot about this subject so I won't say too much out of respect for my own ignorance and others.

In the case of transsexuals, societal wise, I'll respect their decision. I'll refer them to a 'she' instead of a 'he'. I'll call them 'Donna' instead of 'Dave', and all that, and I won't treat them any less than anyone else. However, somewhere deep in my mind, I still can't really accept them as the gender they want to be. In my mind, even if socially, you're a girl (and born a guy), biologically, instinctively, I can't help but still identify them as a guy. Getting surgery, thinking a certain way, and getting hormones pumped into you doesn't change your chromosomes, and it still sort of 'irks' me in that way.

I feel bad for someone who genuinely thinks they were born the wrong gender, but trying to change it seems like a facade.

Also, one thing I always wonder. Why change your body? Definitely, it's a choice, and it's their choice, but if I woke up one day (or whatever) and thought I should be a girl, and I'm a guy, I wouldn't go "yeah I should definitely change my body around to suit what I think", no, I'd go "Damn I'm kinda fucked in the head I should see a psychologist to get this checked out". I dunno, that sounds sort of a fucked up way to say it, but if something has to be 'fixed', why chose your body as the template, instead of your mind, where it all comes from?

 

[Batistaberg]

You should stay in the body God gave you. It's that easy. You will keep what you are born as for your whole life. No matter if you change your gender with a surgery or whatever. Imagine you was born as a dude and want to become a woman. Will you be able to give born to a child? No.
And if you was born as a woman and become a man will you be able to make a ''real'' woman pregnant? No.
Therefore you are still what you were born as and no mask or surgery can change that.

However, somewhere deep in my mind, I still can't really accept them as the gender they want to be.

Exactly. This brings it straight to the point.

 

[Guest]

;D

 

[Batistaberg]

Not really, if you have a cock and you get it cut off to become a woman, then you've not really kept what you were born as, if you were a woman who has a surgically created cock and you lose your pussy and your tits, then you've not really kept what you were born as.

You don't get a pussy just because your dick was cut off.
And your body still can't create sperm just because you received a surgically penis.

If you were a woman who had surgery to look like a dude and have a cock, then you can still fuck a woman in the way a person who was born a man, can.

No, you can't have an orgasm then. So it is the same as if two lesbians use a dildo.

If you feel the need to judge someone for having gender realignment surgery then you need to stop being soft and grow up.

It isn't MY judgment. It was God's judgment to make someone a dude or a gurl. Nobody should question God's judgment.

 

[Guest]

;D

 

[Batistaberg]

nice excuse

but why ''lol god''?

 

[Hybrida]

but why ''lol god''?

I would answer, but there's a 98% chance this topic will get derailed.

you are still what you were born as and no mask or surgery can change that.

I agree 1000% percent

 

[Venetia]

using the "you can't make babies if you change your gender so it's not valid nyah nyah" isn't a valid argument.
lots of people with seemingly "normal" junk dont have that ability.
ever wonder why there's surrogacy and adoption around, jackhole?

 

[Venetia]

If you were a woman who had surgery to look like a dude and have a cock, then you can still fuck a woman in the way a person who was born a man, can.

No, you can't have an orgasm then. So it is the same as if two lesbians use a dildo.

wait what ... yes, they can
it may be impaired somewhat but there's no evidence to say they can no longer climax
... and why would your ability to climax prove anything
i know a chick who's 100% woman and she's never climaxed in her life
wtf dude where are you getting your "facts", those super-religio-nazi comic booklets that weirdos pass out around high schools???

 

[Ellie]

No, you can't have an orgasm then. So it is the same as if two lesbians use a dildo.

There's research that suggests increased oestrogen levels increase the length and intensity of the "male" orgasm.

You do not, not, not, not, lose the ability to orgasm by becoming a transgender. If you have surgery it can sometimes (10% of the time) be a botch job and you can lose all sensitivity down there (becoming less of an issue with today's techniques), but you can still orgasm - especially since many men can orgasm through nipple play, anal/prostate stimulation, or even through meditation.

 

[Batistaberg]

wtf dude where are you getting your "facts", those super-religio-nazi comic booklets that weirdos pass out around high schools???

I did not call them ''facts'', kid.

You do not, not, not, not, lose the ability to orgasm by becoming a transgender. If you have surgery it can sometimes (10% of the time) be a botch job and you can lose all sensitivity down there (becoming less of an issue with today's techniques), but you can still orgasm - especially since many men can orgasm through nipple play, anal/prostate stimulation, or even through meditation.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Ifyour penis isnt real you can't get an orgasm by letting a chick suck your faked dick. But the other ways you named were of course still there (although an orgasm via ''nipple play'' seems more like a wannabe reality... don't know if that really works or if that has the same intensity. I don't really think so)
Edit: or wait a minute. maybe it works the same way as if a little boy e.g. has an orgasmn while he is sleeping and dreaming some dirrty shit. That's an orgasm without any touching.

 

[Ellie]

It's all about mindset - just like how buddhists can orgasm through meditation, if you believe you can come from having your nipples touched your mind will make it so. You just gotta believe brutha.

 

[Guest]

;D

 

[Venetia]

wtf dude where are you getting your "facts", those super-religio-nazi comic booklets that weirdos pass out around high schools???

I did not call them ''facts'', kid.

i'm older than you, sweetiebabykins. :kiss:

You do not, not, not, not, lose the ability to orgasm by becoming a transgender. If you have surgery it can sometimes (10% of the time) be a botch job and you can lose all sensitivity down there (becoming less of an issue with today's techniques), but you can still orgasm - especially since many men can orgasm through nipple play, anal/prostate stimulation, or even through meditation.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Ifyour penis isnt real you can't get an orgasm by letting a chick suck your faked dick. But the other ways you named were of course still there (although an orgasm via ''nipple play'' seems more like a wannabe reality... don't know if that really works or if that has the same intensity. I don't really think so)
Edit: or wait a minute. maybe it works the same way as if a little boy e.g. has an orgasmn while he is sleeping and dreaming some dirrty shit. That's an orgasm without any touching.

when they create a penis on a woman they typically use mostly the discarded vaginal tissue. this is erogenous tissue; it has a g-spot sensation, like it normally would. i've read that their climaxes are somewhat jilted in the process but they can still get them from their created organs.
men transgendering into women have a higher success rate of being able to appropriately feel an orgasm; they can use the tip as a make-shift clitoris.

also still why is this even an argument, how does climax affect your ability to be a man or a woman

 

[Guest]

;D