Envision, Create, Share

Welcome to HBGames, a leading amateur game development forum and Discord server. All are welcome, and amongst our ranks you will find experts in their field from all aspects of video game design and development.

Religion, what do you think?

What is your Religion?

  • Christianity

    Votes: 41 31.3%
  • Judaism

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Islam

    Votes: 6 4.6%
  • None

    Votes: 68 51.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 15 11.5%

  • Total voters
    131
Status
Not open for further replies.
Arbiter":38chdnen said:
So what you are doing is basically attacking what I may or may not believe in? Because I don't see anywhere where I said that is what I actually believe, and I don't go for flame baits, bud, nice try though but you need more experience.

Whatever man, I wasnt "flame baiting" you. You said the its gullibility that leads people to think maybe there was an intelligence behind creation.

gulâ‹…liâ‹…ble
–adjective: easily deceived or cheated.

My belief in the notion that time, space and matter did NOT spring up out of nothing for no reason does not fit that definition. Nobody deceived me into thinking that.

Claiming that you know how, why and when the universe began based on a scientific theory that cannot be proven, and anyone who disagrees with you must be a fool...well...
 
I have 0 religion and with good reason, NOBODY AND I REPEAT NOBODY has any fucking idea where we came from so they make up stories, ZERO evidence of any of these gods are found in actual recorded history aside from the texts on which they are based, why do we believe the texts, because we are told that they are true by authority, and whoever has the authority is true. You would think that such great figures would have caught the attention of the hundreds and hundreds of historians of the time, but in fact they did not because they do not exist. We as human beings need to hear what we think is true because at some point in time we all ask ourselves, why are we here and where did we come to be. The fact that we remove ourselves from every aspect of nature by converting ourselves into sons of a divine being is utterly absurd but wildly accepted. And as we have seen in the past the majority is NOT always right. Every religion/god is a regurgitated parody of past gods, that have been forced upon you without you even knowing it. Yet we look at history and laugh at the stupidity of the past cultures all the while sheathing our eyes from the staggering similarities between past and present. FACT- Human beings are the only creatures that focus on the past or present, we spend most of our lives worrying or dwelling on the past and looking froward to the future because the present is too hard to take, the reality we live in is controlled and manipulated by the few. They control every aspect of your life and you are too blind to see it. Everything you are taught, see, have seen and will know will be given to you by people that simply make it up.

Thats my two cents...
 
I think people start these kinds of threads intentionally to start fights.

I also think Religion as an establishment is a perversion of what God really intended, which is a living, growing relationship with Him.

that's my 2 cents.
 
nikki":2db73c5f said:
My belief in the notion that time, space and matter did NOT spring up out of nothing for no reason does not fit that definition. Nobody deceived me into thinking that.

Claiming that you know how, why and when the universe began based on a scientific theory that cannot be proven, and anyone who disagrees with you must be a fool...well...

You should read a bit more into astrophysics: the springing of the world out of nothing for no reason has not been an argument for quite some time now.

For one, there is the implicit assumption that there *has* to be a reason. The how, and when has been calculated with varying degrees of accuracy for some time now, based on what we know about the behaviour of the various bodies existent in the visible universe, and other things, such as the various forces involved.

I was wondering how long it would take in this discussion for the use of the word "theory" to pop up with a meaning similar to "wild guess". The theory of the universe's origins exists based on the best available evidence and the sum of human knowledge regarding matter, space, molecules and a whole heap of things which you or I could barely begin to comprehend fully.

If there is a significant change in the available data, enough to overturn existing the existing theories then obviously the bulk of the subject will have change. Already, new advancements seem to be causing the scientific community to reconsider the idea of a steady-state universe - something which "died out" a long time ago.

Scientists do not know, and many of them, contrary to what is said about them, do not claim to know. I have have the pleasure of meeting and grilling many people in various fields, and usually they will begin most of their arguments with phrases such as "Well, at the moment, the evidence seems to indicate-" or "It is the present thinking that-". There are very few who don't bother to hedge who actually believe beyond all doubt that what we know at the moment is true and fixed.

They don't find a gap in their models and dismiss it all out of hand: they seek to explain the questions or problems they are posed, and saying a variation of "God did it" is not an answer to the question.


A Challenge

As this topic is branching into this area again, many people will no doubt be thinking along the same lines as the above. We (hopefully) still live in a reasoned society, so - as I said above - I feel it necessary that (yet again) we should examine fully the two cases side by side.

The simplest theory that explains the most, sees the furthest, has components which can be used to predict further results, and contains the least number of assumptions, is probably going to be more accurate than the other. The small degrees of inaccuracy are unlikely to overturn one theory in favour of the other. "You can't possibly know" is not a valid response.

In order to begin this, I think we need someone to state the best case possible for Creationism, because anyone non-believers are likely to just create a series of strawmen.
 
The best case possible for Creationism, as far as I can see, is that the big bang (which we can at least partially prove) really happened, but that it was triggered by a being who would here be "God". I don't see why the two have to be mutually exclusive to be honest.

The details of Creationism however, such as those in the Bible, can be proven to be false - the Earth is not a mere few thousand years old and humans were not the first thing to be created.
 
Well, im a Christian, and I think God's time is MUCH slower than our time, so perhaps his one day is...? lol, i dont know, but it sure is very long.

So perhaps the billion years age MIGHT be true.
 
The concept of a day would remain the same even if God did "run at a different speed". Remember it's humans who "recorded" history and not the big G himself.
 
Well, if you're a Christian, then you believe the Bible. God does not have a concept of "time", "time" was created just for us. He lives in an omni-present state -- past, present, and future are all the same to Him.

Commodore Whynot, you intrigue me. You say that the Earth is proven to be older than 6,000 years. Can you show me this proof?

You also mentioned that humans were not the first thing created. Can you explain the proof of that to me as well?
 
Carbon dating, archaeology, dinosaur bones.

Well, if you're a Christian, then you believe the Bible. God does not have a concept of "time", "time" was created just for us. He lives in an omni-present state -- past, present, and future are all the same to Him.

My point is that Humans wrote the bible, not god, so anything written in the bible is from a human perspective/interpretation. If they mention days it is safe to assume they are talking about Earth days, otherwise they would have specified "GOD DAYS" to avoid confusion.
 
Carbon dating doesn't count. It does not work.

It seems that much is made of, and surety placed in, radiometricdating, normally associated with the isotope Carbon 14. Indeed, the results of dating materials and artifacts with this method is perhaps singularly the most compelling "evidence" for evolution "the vast majority believing that since so many fossils have been dated far beyond the chronology of the Bible, evolution must be true 1. In a literal reading of the Old Testament of the Bible, the age of the earth would be around 6 to 9 thousand years; this is obviously quite incompatible with artifacts dated at hundreds of times such a figure. This leads many to assume a priori that the record of the Bible cannot be trusted at all; if it is wrong on the chronology, it is probably wrong about many other things. It would seem that this scientific assignment of dates is the Achilles Heel of theism.
On its surface, this is quite logical. That is, either science is wrong about the dates or the Bible is; if the Bible is wrong about the dates, certainly logic would dictate that the relative level of trust it could be given would be quite low. The Bible is a record handed down over 3,500 years, the people writing it having little if any scientific or mathematical capacity, which could hardly be considered supporting evidence of its veracity and accuracy. On the other hand, science is present, imminent, and tangible; it can be tested on the chalkboard and in the laboratory "the approach purely from logic and objectivity would seem to gravitate singularly towards its findings and reject the former. In the modern society, the great age of once living organisms is an established fact; to posit otherwise is to be wholly unscientific and less than honest and objective. Indeed, the average person has little need of the supporting scientific methodology and specific findings since the great ages of the artifacts are so universally accepted; the old age of the earth must be right.
In the positive, therefore, the older dates for the age of the earth are assumed right, any other posit must then necessarily be wrong, and this is essentially the pervasive and common belief. Perhaps however, a question should be asked, and the answer to it sought, from the negative; that is, asking the question "What if the dating methods and their findings are wrong ?" Or even, " Could the dating methods be wrong?"
The methodology of Carbon dating will then be considered from this perspective such that its relative veracity and reliability will be examined in comparison to known and proven scientific and mathematical function. That is, since there is indeed a great presumption that the findings of radiocarbon dating are sound and in fact inviolate, the probity of coming to such a conclusion will be tested. The manifestation of such an approach will be not to prove without qualification that the dating method(s) are true or false, but rather to simply determine whether the intellectual assent to such findings is congruent with the fundamentals of logic and science. In essence, we will look not to what belief is commonly held, but rather why it is.
The approach here will be divided into two main categories, the inherent physical properties and methods, and the effects of human interactions or limitations.
INHERENT PROPERTIES AND ERRATA
Radiocarbon dating, especially using the Carbon 14 method, takes advantage of the radioactive decay of the isotope, which is seen as a constant. Every living thing takes in and expels Carbon 14 while it is alive, and a static level of the element is maintained. When the organism dies, the infusion is suspended, and the level is reduced according to the rate of decay, known as the "half-life." The amount of Carbon 14 in the artifact is measured and then compared to the presumed static level the organism maintained while alive; the comparison then yields the relative age of the specimen. Though this sounds very straightforward and scientific, there are several serious problems.
The first problem is seen in the very approach in the presumption that must be made in the level of Carbon 14 the organism had while living. Here we have a critical calculation that is based upon an assumption that an organism which lived thousands of years previous, of which there are no modern species to compare, developed a specific level of Carbon 14 from an environment we know nothing about. If for example, the presumption is inaccurate by only 10%, considering that it is the rate of decay that forms the mathematical constant, the inaccuracy of the calculation of age at the upper limit would be tens of thousands of years.
The very basis for the assumption above is another problem, and is perhaps the most embarrassing for the proponents of radiocarbon dating. To assume a particular level of Carbon 14 in an organism requires a precise determination of environmental (atmospheric) levels of the same. That is, to presume a particular level in a living thing requires a precise knowledge of the ambient amount of Carbon 14 in the air and environment. Scientists performing radiocarbon dating assume that the amount in the environment has not changed. This is compelling for several reasons, not the least of which is the convenience with which "science" apparently operates; we hear of massive changes in the earth, ice ages, catastrophic events that killed the dinosaurs, etc., but the environment never changed according to the same scientists.
Not only does the requisite level of assumption and presumption all but invalidate the accuracy of the claims of very old dating, but were an example of an environmental phenomenon that affected the level of ambient Carbon 14, the results could be skewed exponentially. In fact, several such phenomena did indeed exist, proven by the same science that supports old-age radiocarbon dating! It would seem quite clear that some predisposition or predilection for particular findings in terms of dating artifacts is at work in this case. For example, consider that it is essentially accepted that an antediluvian water canopy existed surrounding the earth; this would have acted to either negate or at least significantly reduce the effect of cosmic, x-ray, and ultraviolet radiation in the upper atmosphere. Carbon 14 production would have been negligible, and therefore would not have been absorbed by living things; any organism living before the reduction of the canopy would in turn be dated exponentially older than it actually is. Or consider the effect a global atmospheric shield of dust created as a result of a meteor impact some scientists believe killed off the dinosaurs "levels of Carbon 14 in the atmosphere must certainly have been different, thereby invalidating the age/date test data. Isn’t it funny how the same scientists who purport constant catastrophic changes in earth’s history depend upon the inherent necessity that it was completely without any changes?"
Moreover, it is established fact that the earth’s magnetic field has been in a constant decline in strength2, which would have vigorously protected the earth from the same radiation, all but negating the production of Carbon 14 and thereby minimizing the ambient amount available for absorption by living things. Yet these two facts are virtually unknown in modern society, and it seems never associated with radiometric dating, apparently since it would put such method (and indeed its findings) in doubt as to its reliability.
Another fact, which proves quite embarrassing to "old-age" proponents in regard to radiometric dating, is the half-life of Carbon 14 itself. Not only is the actual half-life length itself in some contention, but the effect it would have on the upper limits of its capability in dating illustrates clearly the level of fraud that has been foisted on an unsuspecting society. Consider that Carbon 14’s half-life is around 5,630 years 3 (though estimates range from 5,300 to 5,700 years); in only ten cycles of this, there would be nothing left to measure in the extant specimen! This means that the absolute maximum age radiocarbon could date a specimen to would be around 56,300 years; yet daily society is barraged with reports that some new find was dated in the hundreds of thousands, and even millions of years using Carbon 14. Actually, after the sixth cycle or so, there would not be enough Carbon 14 in the sample to be measured; the upper limit then would be around 30,000 years.
This leads to yet another inherent problem in the use of radiometric dating which would seem virtually insurmountable, and is caused by the presence of environmental Carbon 14 itself, ironically, the phenomenon scientists exploit in the determination of date of origin. Simply stated, it is nearly impossible to preclude contamination that seriously affects the results of the measurement. The levels of Carbon 14 in any "old" artifact are extremely low; because of this, it is virtually impossible to prevent the test and measurement equipment from picking up residual or background environmental Carbon 14 not associated with the specimen. Further, most artifacts by their very nature are found in and around various forms of rock, which provide several sources of additional radiation. This has the concomitant effect of providing a source of neutrino radiation; Carbon 14 decay is accelerated in the presence of such bombardment, and again the effect would be to cause the specimen to appear much older than it actually is. This effect cannot be overstated in regard to the estimates of age "a less than 5% reduction in the extant amount of Carbon 14 in the specimen", owing to the "constant" of its half-life will yield a factor of 5 times the actual age. Imagine the effect on science if an artifact dated at 45,000 years is actually only 9,000; the possibilities are staggering.
The foregoing is but a few examples of the problems with Carbon 14; many more examples could be given, as well as some documented, glaring failures such as live clams being dated at 1,500 years, and parchment documents from the 17th century being dated to the 4th. The point however, is that radiocarbon dating has serious problems in terms of reliability and veracity, and its use is at best quite limited. On the other hand, there is an obvious dichotomy in these problems and the lack of common knowledge regarding them; it would seem that there should be some explanation why the vast majority of society is so unaware of the spurious nature of the science behind radiocarbon dating. That is, since science is ostensibly clinical and without emotion, the most likely cause of the dearth of knowledge of the limitations, fallacies, and vulnerabilities in this method is man himself - a manifestation of his own biases and predilections. This is the subject of the next division.
THE HUMAN EFFECT
Whereas in the foregoing the physical and scientific limitations and problems of using Carbon 14 dating has been examined, the human effect and influence on the science is often underestimated; this could be illustrated essentially in the rhetorical "Why?"
That is, since the use of Carbon 14 in radiometric dating has several glaring and seemingly irreducible problems that almost certainly cast doubt on its results, this begs the question of "why" it is used at all, or at least why it would be considered accurate. It would seem quite clear that some bias is at work in the published results of dating activities, and therefore the motivation for fostering erroneous (or at least misleading) findings is suspect.
It would also seem however that it is not so much what the proponents are trying to present as much as what they are trying to prevent. That is, the view is held because a suitable alternative is not available "evolution depends on the great age of living things" the alternative is creation by God, and this is unacceptable to many, especially it seems, scientists. (Though there are indeed many scientists who believe in special Creation by God). This lack of alternative is sufficient motivation for some to ignore the obvious problems with radiocarbon dating, as long as their "religion" of the theory of evolution remains intact. It is somehow appropriate that the theory itself has the same type of problems as the dating methods that support it. The question of "why" is however yet unanswered; it boggles the mind to think that many scientists, ostensibly known for their dedication to truth, objectivity and scholarship would entertain such a problematic system, seemingly at all costs.
It may be that the answer can be found, appropriately enough, in the same place as the account of the creation of man, the Book of Genesis. In the story about the fall into sin, it would seem that the motivations are essentially the same:
"And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." (Genesis 3:4-5, King James Version, emphasis mine throughout).
Here are the two great motivations that underlie the motivation for following after evolution and its requisite dating: for absent God, there is no accountability; absent God creating, then evolution and man would be the height of achievement, the top of the scale. Note that the serpent is trying to convince Eve that she will not be held accountable, that the results God had warned of would not be applicable to her; man has sought to be free from accountability ever since. Note also that man’s (Eve’s) status would change, that he would be as high up the scale as any other created thing, perhaps beyond. Evolution provides both of these things at once, and apparently man’s desire for them is greater than he has for the truth. Just as the progenitor of mankind, Eve, was misled by the serpent, society today is being misled regarding the sufficiency and truth of what science really purports; the great irony is that it is apparently for the same reason.
William B. Tripp, Ph.D, D.Th. 18 March 2002
 
uhm. Since when does empirical data gain the ability to decipher the spiritual world? By definition it removes itself from eligibility.
 

mawk

Sponsor

so fallaciasonata you said earlier that creationism cannot be proven "entirely" but evolution cannot be proven "at all"

where's this proof dawg you gotta back these things up

p.s. although carbon dating is far from perfect it's not a completely random process with arbitrary results -- I find it kind of hard to believe that it takes something 6000 years old and says that it's three million instead.
 
FallaciaSonata":1nk8ako9 said:
Evolution provides both of these things at once, and apparently man’s desire for them is greater than he has for the truth.
This works both ways.


Anyway, let's assume carbon dating doesn't work. What about
Commander Whynot":1nk8ako9 said:
...archaeology, dinosaur bones.
? You can't just dismiss bones. And the fact that the Bible never mentioned these huge creatures must surely suggest that they existed before its creation.
 
The Bible never mentioned them? Hmm....I don't recall it mentioning (by name) a couple other animals either, but they're around. The Bible states that during the six day Creation period, all animals were created. That would have included dinosaurs. We know dinosaurs were real because we have their bones.

As for mentioning them...

Written by: John Whitmore

Although the monstrous creature was obviously a vegetarian, its size was overwhelming. Its hips could withstand the enormous force of each pounding step and its midsection was a mass of muscle. Its gigantic tail extended far behind him, not unlike a giant cedar tree swaying behind his body. Its bones were like steel girders with ribs like iron bars to support his enormous weight. This is the greatest creature to roam the swamps and rivers of the earth.

Is this a scene from the blockbuster movie, Jurassic Park? It could be, but it isn't. This description, which perfectly fits an Apatosaurus, is a paraphrased description taken from one of the oldest books of the Bible, Job 40:15-24. If dinosaurs have been extinct for 65 million years, how could a writer of the Bible have accurately described the appearance, food, and habitat of this creature?

The vast majority of books on dinosaurs are written from an evolutionary perspective which assumes that the dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago. The leading model for the demise of the dinosaur involves a large asteroid hitting the earth. Yet the most obvious alternative explanation is almost always ignored. Almost all fossils are the remains of creatures buried by water-borne sediment which has subsequently turned to rock. If this is due to the flood of worldwide extent, as the water flowed over all the land surfaces, animals would have been drowned and been buried by massive amounts of rapidly accumulating sediment. It is not all surprising to find a general lack of burial mixing between these very different kinds of animals due to local or ecological grouping.

Genesis 7:2 states that Noah saved two of every representative "kind" of land animal on the ark. Noah would have taken young specimens, not huge, older creatures. Dinosaurs would have emerged from the ark to inhabit an entirely different world. Instead of a warm, mild climate worldwide, they would have found a harsh climate which soon settled into an ice age. If climatic hardships did not cause the dinosaur's extinction, man's tendency to destroy probably did.

In the early 1900's on the Doheny expedition into the Grand Canyon, Indian cave drawings were found which closely resembled a duck-billed dinosaur. Legends from ancient China to ancient England have recorded descriptions of dinosaur-like creatures. The Kuku Yalanji aboriginal people have paintings which look exactly like plesiosaurs. These and other intriguing evidences seem to indicate that perhaps that age of the dinosaurs ended more recently than is commonly taught.

every berries":13sqsi9p said:
...although carbon dating is far from perfect it's not a completely random process with arbitrary results -- I find it kind of hard to believe that it takes something 6000 years old and says that it's three million instead.

I find it hard to believe we evolved out of nothing. If you believe we evolved out of something other than nothing, please, explain to me how it all started. I don't want to stereotype and say that all evolutionists believe in the "big bang".
 

mawk

Sponsor

1: don't dodge the issue by bringing up "lol evolution" it's pretty bad form to have an entire argument based off of the fact that the other argument doesn't scan.

2:
so fallaciasonata you said earlier that creationism cannot be proven "entirely" but evolution cannot be proven "at all"

where's this proof dawg you gotta back these things up
 
FallaciaSonata, where are you getting this information? Can you link to the source? It seems to be very OMG SCIENTISTS REBELLING, which probably means it's a religious site, which probably means it's not very credible in terms of evidence.

Most countries have records of dragons, something similar to dinosaurs yet we haven't found bones of them yet. Are they both real, then? And since that description is paraphrased, it's completely useless as evidence.


I find it hard to believe we evolved out of nothing. If you believe we evolved out of something other than nothing, please, explain to me how it all started. I don't want to stereotype and say that all evolutionists believe in the "big bang".
bacteria > mutli-celled organisms > fishies > amphibians (can walk on land) > mammals, reptiles, birds, etc. > us

That is (I believe) correct in what the theory of evolution says happened.


I'll leave it at that for now. I don't want it to feel like we're jumping on you. :wink:
 
Ah...dinner = awesome. Baked Ziti.....

All right...let's do this one at a time:

every berries:

Dodge the issue? What issue? I said you can't prove evolution.
....can you?
If you can, I stand corrected and I sincerely apologize.
Until you can prove it, (using empirical evidence) I stand by what I said.

Guardian:

1: Where am I getting it? The sources come from different scientists and articles, but I found a good chunk of them from http://www.drdino.com/.
This is Dr. Kent Hovind's website, where he battles against evolution being taught in schools. (Due to it being presented as fact when it is merely a theory.)

He's not in the same sect of Christianity as I, so his salvation plan is a bit off, but as far as Creation vs. evolutionism he's right. (He seems to be Trinitarian, which brings up an entirely different ball of wax I'm not going to attempt to dive into.)

Please, before you go around saying "Oh, it's a 'religious' site, and has no credibility, etc," take a peek at his resources and how he researches things. He uses science.

And since when does religion become reason for non-credibility? Evolutionism is just as much of a religion as anything else, and people listen to people who support it....

Besides....it takes a heck of a lot more faith to believe in evolutionism as opposed to Creation.

2: Dragons? What about them? Dragons are indeed mentioned in the Bible. Paraphrased? Yes, the article paraphrased. It expects you to actually look up Job 40: 15-24, which is the actual description....
Question: "What does the Bible say about dragons?"

Answer: The Bible mentions a dragon in Revelation chapters 12, 13, 16, and 20. Revelation 20:2 identifies the dragon, “He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.” The Bible is not teaching that dragons ever truly existed. Rather, it is only comparing Satan to a fire-breathing monster.

It is very interesting to note, however, that nearly every major ancient culture has myths and legends about giant reptiles. How would all of these civilizations, continents and millennia apart, all come up with legends of giant reptile creatures? Evolutionary scientists tell us that dinosaurs existed millions of years before human beings. Dinosaur fossils were not discovered until thousands of years after the myths of giants reptiles began. How can this be?

The Bible mentions two creatures that seem remarkably similar to the dinosaurs, the leviathan and behemoth, in Job chapters 40-41. It is the view of Creation scientists that all the “dragon” myths came from real contact between human beings and dinosaurs. The Bible tells us that all animals were created around 6000 years ago and co-existed with human beings. That would explain how all human cultures have myths about giant reptiles—because they actually saw them! The “fire-breathing” aspect of a dragon is possibly a myth (although there have been some interesting discoveries), but the universal legends of giant reptiles point to real contact between human beings and dinosaurs.

It's also rather interesting to know that all of the countries worldwide have mentions of a massive flood in their histories....and why would you discredit the Bible, the most accurate historical document, merely because it's "religious", or is just "opinions" of people?
Has it ever been wrong?
No. (Once again, if you can prove me wrong, I apologize, but I've never found anything during my course of studying the Bible that is incorrect.)
Furthermore, if you would reject the Bible because it's someone's opinion, wouldn't you have to reject, or at least question, every other historical document ever written (religious or otherwise) because it was written by someone with an opinion? (Which would be everyone.)

3:
Guardian":2kijhiq2 said:
bacteria > mutli-celled organisms > fishies > amphibians (can walk on land) > mammals, reptiles, birds, etc. > us

That is (I believe) correct in what the theory of evolution says happened.

Okay, but.... There's one big problem here.... Where did the bacteria come from?
 

mawk

Sponsor

Dodge the issue? What issue? I said you can't prove evolution.
....can you?
tell me how this relates to our discussion about carbon dating and sure, I'll bite. how I see it, though, is that you took what I said and set it on an entirely different tangent.

p.s.hey bro you missed something:

so fallaciasonata you said earlier that creationism cannot be proven "entirely" but evolution cannot be proven "at all"

where's this proof dawg you gotta back these things up
 
Where am I getting it? The sources come from different scientists and articles, but I found a good chunk of them from http://www.drdino.com/.
This is Dr. Kent Hovind's website, where he battles against evolution being taught in schools. (Due to it being presented as fact when it is merely a theory.)

He's not in the same sect of Christianity as I, so his salvation plan is a bit off, but as far as Creation vs. evolutionism he's right. (He seems to be Trinitarian, which brings up an entirely different ball of wax I'm not going to attempt to dive into.)

Please, before you go around saying "Oh, it's a 'religious' site, and has no credibility, etc," take a peek at his resources and how he researches things. He uses science.
Have you seriously looked up these people? Here's a little about Dr. Kent Hovind:
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Hovind (I'm not going to debate Wikipedia's credibility. If you don't believe it's accurate, it at least shows that there are some conflicts in the truth.)

He holds three degrees in Christian education (1974, 1988, 1991) from unaccredited institutions.
This does NOT make you a doctor, in my opinion. Dr. = Medical school.

Since November 2006 Hovind has been serving a ten-year term in the Federal Correctional Institution, Edgefield in Edgefield, South Carolina, for 12 tax offenses, obstructing federal agents and structuring cash transactions.
I thought this was amusing.

Basically, unless you're a scientist, you can't claim how scientific something is.


And since when does religion become reason for non-credibility? Evolutionism is just as much of a religion as anything else, and people listen to people who support it....

Besides....it takes a heck of a lot more faith to believe in evolutionism as opposed to Creation.
Two reasons: most religions are old, science is new; religious people tend to be willing to stretch the truth to fit their theories (both sides are guilty of this, but the religious side tends to do it more, in my experience). The difficulty to believe in something is a pointless argument. It took forever for people to accept that the Earth wasn't flat.


Dragons? What about them?
I was trying to say that just because people see a similar image doesn't mean they existed at the time. We've found dinosaur bones, but not dragon bones. From that, dragons don't exist, but we still depicted them. We're just imaginative.


It's also rather interesting to know that all of the countries worldwide have mentions of a massive flood in their histories....and why would you discredit the Bible, the most accurate historical document, merely because it's "religious", or is just "opinions" of people?
Has it ever been wrong?
No. (Once again, if you can prove me wrong, I apologize, but I've never found anything during my course of studying the Bible that is incorrect.)
Furthermore, if you would reject the Bible because it's someone's opinion, wouldn't you have to reject, or at least question, every other historical document ever written (religious or otherwise) because it was written by someone with an opinion? (Which would be everyone.)
I'm not saying it doesn't hold some truths, but it doesn't all have to be true. The only reason it hasn't been wrong is because the questionable stuff can't be observed (unless we discover time travel). And yes, I think the same of any other written document. The main thing I have against the Bible is that it's old and we can't talk to the authors. And most written documents aren't trying to create a world that may or may not be fantasy. I have no problem with admitting I'm wrong if it turns out God made the universe, but current evidence suggests that evolution occurred.


Okay, but.... There's one big problem here.... Where did the bacteria come from?
Water, most likely. Although we can't test it, it's possible that bacteria/single cells will form naturally in water. There are a bunch of theories on how life forms from non-life, but I don't want to get into that now.

If you want to read more of my arguments for evolution, you can take a look at this archived thread. This is all sort-of on-topic (discussion of credibility of religion), but we shouldn't get too deep into specifically evolution.

Damn that post was a lot longer than I intended it to be. X:
 
Since when were we discussing carbon dating? I could have sworn you said "earlier" in your post, referring to my statement prior to carbon dating.

every berries":16lpssm0 said:
so fallaciasonata you said earlier that creationism cannot be proven "entirely" but evolution cannot be proven "at all"

where's this proof dawg you gotta back these things up

If you want to discuss carbon dating, that's fine. What do you want to know about it?

And how did I go on a tangent, anyway? Talking about carbon dating and evolution is the same as talking about blood and a human body. You can't have a human body without blood ; likewise, you cannot believe the Earth is "billions and billions of years old" without carbon dating (or another dating system.)

....What is it exactly that you want to know?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Thank you for viewing

HBGames is a leading amateur video game development forum and Discord server open to all ability levels. Feel free to have a nosey around!

Discord

Join our growing and active Discord server to discuss all aspects of game making in a relaxed environment. Join Us

Content

  • Our Games
  • Games in Development
  • Emoji by Twemoji.
    Top