Quintessence - The Blighted Venom

[Calibre]

Without even playing it sounds like a yes and yes to me to those questions.  Without a doubt.  At least the top one yes so if people find it fiddly it won't be as punishing.

oh and bordering every map does not give it a pokemon effect  :lol:  That's only if you put a solid border of vertical/horizontal tree's.  It's something to take into account when planning the layout in the first place.

 

[Reives]

I think the main difference is that the current way feels a lot more in-the-rush, e.g. has a real time consequence as opposed to a turn based effect. And vice versa if those 2 are to be implemented.

 

[Despain]

I'm glad to hear that you're aware of some of these problems and they get better as the game goes on. That makes me want to go back and keep playing through this thing.

Im going to have to dissagree with you.  This game is jesus.

Fanboys are never a good thing, especially when the game's creator agrees with me in the post right after yours. If you really like the game, you should be looking at it from a critical viewpoint too, to help it be the best that it can be.

 

[Calibre]

I think the main difference is that the current way feels a lot more in-the-rush, e.g. has a real time consequence as opposed to a turn based effect. And vice versa if those 2 are to be implemented.

The normal battle is real time anyway though, it's nice to have a bit of a mix considering it is an rpg (well, sort of).  A lot of rpg's these days go with the semi-real time approach.

 

[Reives]

@Despain:
Hahah, if you are, just know that the heavy fog usage that are to come will surely make you cringe. :p I doubt you'd make it far anyhow, as it doesn't seem like the kind of thing you'd enjoy - Chapter 2's doze-fest should stop you in your tracks if nothing else.

@Calibe:
Ah, that's true. But now that I think of it, something that goes against it is that I was planning to have a "pause" function as a skill (something along the lines to go with the heightened sense) - so if I make it pause with that function, it would defeat the point for that path. Mm. . .

 

[Chalupa]

I'm glad to hear that you're aware of some of these problems and they get better as the game goes on. That makes me want to go back and keep playing through this thing.

Im going to have to dissagree with you.  This game is jesus.

Fanboys are never a good thing, especially when the game's creator agrees with me in the post right after yours. If you really like the game, you should be looking at it from a critical viewpoint too, to help it be the best that it can be.

Well, I think it's one of the most professional looking RMXP games I've ever played.  I would pay money for it.  There are a few things I would change, but other than that, I love this game.

 

[Reives]

Thanks hi1.  :smile: But yes, different people have different preferences and opinions as well as insights; it never hurts to hear another side of the story to help improving.
~
None the less, about the fandom comment a while back that I forgot about, by the way: I actually believe that cheer-leading comments are just as important as criticisms at an adequate amount, and hence are not always bad. This applies to most, if not all non-profit projects, of course. Criticisms make the wheels spin smoother and better, while cheer-leading feedback keeps it spinning, period. It is simply a natural thing for people to be motivated by positive comments, if not to just gain a healthy balance from the pure negative (but in constructive cases, very helpful) ones. As there is a share of both lying around, the system works itself out.

@Calibre:
Ah yes, my bad, it wasn't very accurate in saying that on my part. But either way, I actually personally like the feel of the no-border design. In my view, it feels unconfined (visually) and gives off a "more to the eye" effect. However, that seems to be also largely due to my personal preference/emphasize on scenario rather than from a game-play perspective.

 

[Ragura]

@ Despain: A game that has no fanboys is probably not a good one... Unless you can prove me wrong and provide some examples. And about the overcluttered mapping and focus on visual appeal... I'm sure you do play some other games next to RMXP and practically ALL current professional games put an emphasis on the graphical design. Bland maps make me turn off my console or PC, because it indicates laziness, uninspired concepts and severe lack of immersion. Bland maps is what turns me off in MMORPGs. Surely when you walk through a park you would like it to be pretty and not just one big road so you're sure a tree won't block your path

But I do agree that some objects on the ground should be passable which currently (and by default) aren't. The lack of borders around the map looked weird to me at first, but I grew used to it and now I don't care either way. Current gen 3D games usually play the "big field, small playing area" card where the entire area is visible but you can only traverse the preset path (there are exceptions obviously). I wish something like this were possible in RMXP but unfortunately that's not the case. And Reives' reference to Pokemon maps made me see the light in his reasoning

The dialogue is just fine in my opinion. I'm not a native English speaker but I've played my fair share of RPGs and to me the level of dialogue seems pretty much on par.

 

[Despain]

@ Despain: A game that has no fanboys is probably not a good one...

There's a difference between a fan and a fanboy. And you're right, a game without fanboys often isn't a great game. But being a fanboy isn't as helpful to the game's creator. Considering that this is a forum for RPG Maker, we look at the games from a critical viewpoint as creators and look at how to make them better. If this were a place for game-players, such as GameFAQs or something, then the typical fanboy creamage would certainly be acceptable.

And about the overcluttered mapping and focus on visual appeal... I'm sure you do play some other games next to RMXP and practically ALL current professional games put an emphasis on the graphical design.

I agree with you 100%, but simply because a game is professional, does that mean that it is something to strive for? Very often, modern games tend to replace good gameplay with visual effects, which is something that I am trying to point out in Quintessence (evident in the screenshots, the topic, etc, even moreso than the game itself). If that is Reives' intention, then it's great, but it makes me wonder if he is using the right medium for the project if the focus isn't on playing it, but watching it.

And I grade graphics incredibly low when it comes to how I choose what games I play. I would choose many classic N64 games (Banjo-Kazooie is one of my favorite games of all time) over any current-gen game, simply because it is so much more fun.

The dialogue is just fine in my opinion. I'm not a native English speaker but I've played my fair share of RPGs and to me the level of dialogue seems pretty much on par.

And that's a good thing? I don't know about you, but I would personally hope that my work would be better than "on part" with the average RPG--which unfortunately isn't that good. I didn't say that his dialogue was bad (I called it horrible as a hook, then explained it further). I have high standards, and it is very rare that I play an RPG Maker game because of that. I only play games that look exceptional, and my criticism is aimed at helping Reives make his game exceptional. If he is fine settling for being "on par" with other RPGs, then my criticism can be disregarded.

 

[Ragura]

Considering that this is a forum for RPG Maker, we look at the games from a critical viewpoint as creators and look at how to make them better. If this were a place for game-players, such as GameFAQs or something, then the typical fanboy creamage would certainly be acceptable.

That's not really true. The way you state it, this place only has developers as members. There are plenty of people just here to play the games others make. They have the "advantage" of being able to play the game without looking at the design side. If they like it, if the game has its audience, then it was a success. The masses decide what's a good game and what's not. Unfortunately, we don't have that number of players to truly determine which games are general successes and which are just good. Developer critics are only half useful. In fact, they're only useful if the one criticizing shares the same design phylosophy. Else it's just a clash of opinions, which is the reason games are different in the first place. So, as a player, comment on what you liked and disliked (as you did) but don't lay it out as if the things you disliked are actually design flaws (like the lack of borders which you called a massive no-no as if that's the only viewpoint).

I agree with you 100%, but simply because a game is professional, does that mean that it is something to strive for? Very often, modern games tend to replace good gameplay with visual effects, which is something that I am trying to point out in Quintessence (evident in the screenshots, the topic, etc, even moreso than the game itself). If that is Reives' intention, then it's great, but it makes me wonder if he is using the right medium for the project if the focus isn't on playing it, but watching it.

Fair enough, graphics are definitely not the most important part of a game. Having said that, you should realize it's not the artists who write the story or the dialogue or even create the battle system and such. It's not like developers need to choose between pretty graphics and good gameplay, that's just not how it works. You should try looking at all aspects equally and seperately and rate them as such. Obviously this doesn't (usually) apply to us people using RMXP. It's more often than not a one-man effort, so in that case putting too much effort into one aspect may indeed hurt another, but I doubt this is the case for Quintessence.

As for Reives using the right medium... This seems to cause some debate on a larger scale than just this thread I am a fervent fan (not a fanboy) of the Xenosaga series (which you most likely despise). A lot of people who played that series also said the developers chose the wrong medium, just because it had a heavy focus on the scenario and less on the gameplay side. But you should realize that these kind of games fill a niche, one to which I belong. To me, "watching" a game as you like to put it, is like going through a visual novel. Consider it a book/game hybrid, a genre you happen to dislike.

And that's a good thing? I don't know about you, but I would personally hope that my work would be better than "on part" with the average RPG--which unfortunately isn't that good. I didn't say that his dialogue was bad (I called it horrible as a hook, then explained it further). I have high standards, and it is very rare that I play an RPG Maker game because of that. I only play games that look exceptional, and my criticism is aimed at helping Reives make his game exceptional. If he is fine settling for being "on par" with other RPGs, then my criticism can be disregarded.

There sure are some dumb RPGs out there, but I would dare say that's usually not the fault of the dialogue. Rather, the story is severely lacking, which translates into silly dialogue. A few games that have exceptional dialogue come to mind, like the Baldur's Gate series, but that's a special kind of RPG after all. The kind we're making here is usually inspired by Japanese RPGs (new and old school) and they run on character development and story, which means as far as dialogue goes that the focus should be on dialogue that flows smoothly and is fitting to the character who's speaking. I know you said Quintessence doesn't have bad dialogue, this isn't an attack on you, just my personal opinion on the matter

As for settling for a game being "on par" with other RPGs, that's a moot point. A developer should always strive to make the best possible game according to his abilities. There's no use comparing a game you're developing with other games, especially not commercial ones.

Give the rest of the game a go, you may not like it, but maybe you'll learn to appreciate the style Reives is going for.

 

[Erichermit]

Despain, I can't say I completely agree with what you said. I do agree that I found the lack of boundaries and being able to walk into the side of the maps a bit strange, but otherwise I can't say I share your opinions about the other points.

I didn't personally see anything wrong with the dialogue, which I suppose is what you were saying, but I think it was pulled off well. Of course, I understand that is your opinion, and though the word choice and diction wasn't like something I'd find in my favorite HP Lovecraft book, I feel it's a bit much to expect. Besides, It seems strange to me if the characters were to talk in a much fancier way than they currently do. Real people have dialogue that isn't dissimilar to what Reiver has written. I feel the real place to focus is the storyline, as that shows where the true writing skills take place. Of course, you may not enjoy it either, but I found myself truly entranced by the story.

The mapping? Well, besides the weird thing with the maps just ending and not having a boundary in the way, I didn't find many errors but a few which I suppose I shall take the time to list now.

I didn't like that cave underground the town you visit with the sheriffs. It seemed a bit out of style and bare for your style, Reives. Consider remaking it as you go through and remake old maps. Also it seems to be lacking one of your characteristic fogs (though if it had one too dark it'd make it impossible to see with the Viewing Bubble already in place.)

I also think you could use some work in mapping forests with canopies. It's important to make sure that Canopies do not hang over with nothing under it. Think of Canopies like bridges. You can't have a bridge that just goes out to nowhere. You need something to support on the ending sides of the bridges, and the middle will be okay. Just remember that the most important places to put trees in a canopy are at the END of the canopy, not the middle. Then just fill it with as many trees in between to make it look like it's being supported properly. Oh, and I recommend against using that Giant Tree as a canopy supporter much, (this is just my personal opinion) as I don't think it works that well there. Your forest mapping seems to have greatly improved in the recent demo you released, however, so maybe you may want to remap some of the other things.

However, besides those two instances, I found the mapping to wonderful and something to be very jealous of. I enjoy the cluttered look, and I love fogs to be placed around. I think they make the map look much more beautiful. In response to you're saying that cluttering places looks over gameplay, it's important to realize (Hah, "To Realize." *hums*) that Quintessence is meant to be more of an interactive movie than a game. Thus, visual elements are more important than gameplay elements. And, in this game designer's opinion at least, they are wonderful. (This is not to say that the gameplay in Quintessence is not enjoyable by the way.)

The easy solution to the "I want my map to be cluttered but have people to get around" is to not make so many things impassable. It's a bit ridiculous that a full grown human is unable to step across a flower or a small pile of rocks. Make things passable unless it's ridiculous that they would be able to walk over it. I had a decently easy time getting around though.

I'm not sure if you have presented this argument, or even gotten far enough to see a lot of it, but I'm sure that some would say that this game overuses fogs, or that fogs are bad when used a lot. I find this to be an opinion of sorts, actually, as I personally love fogs almost everywhere. I feel that they gives things a feel of variation, like that this patch of grass is a bit greener than that one and so on.

Anyway, I hope this both helps and keeps that little wheel of yours spinnin', Reives.

I also think your very high standards are great, Despain, as I'm it is things like that that make great games truly wonderful, however I think you are merely a little mistaken on some areas of this game. I recommend you attempt playing further by the way, but it's truly of your own volition. I'm sure Reives could benefit from your criticism of other game sections as well!

 

[Reives]

There's a difference between a fan and a fanboy. And you're right, a game without fanboys often isn't a great game. But being a fanboy isn't as helpful to the game's creator. Considering that this is a forum for RPG Maker, we look at the games from a critical viewpoint as creators and look at how to make them better. If this were a place for game-players, such as GameFAQs or something, then the typical fanboy creamage would certainly be acceptable.

Ah, I have to disagree on this one. The thing is that for RM game creators, boards like these are also a place for feedback from "game-players", or those in place of them. As I stated a few posts back, at an adequate amount, fanboy/cheer-leading comments do help greatly with the motivation - as long as the author knows enough than to take exaggerated complements and crown themselves over the head. Master of the Wind has its share of the said type of feedback; and I am sure that it gives Volrath and Artbane a sense of accomplishment, if nothing else, when they see upon such things. Recharging the battery after a physically helpful (but admit it, somewhat mentally stressful) criticism, is one way to think of it for me.

But the basis for this is, of course, that the author is competent enough to know to not to just soak in the praise and dispose the critics.

I agree with you 100%, but simply because a game is professional, does that mean that it is something to strive for? Very often, modern games tend to replace good gameplay with visual effects, which is something that I am trying to point out in Quintessence (evident in the screenshots, the topic, etc, even moreso than the game itself). If that is Reives' intention, then it's great, but it makes me wonder if he is using the right medium for the project if the focus isn't on playing it, but watching it.

As it is labeled as an "interactive show", I'd have to say that it is more or less the case, heheh. As I do not have exceptional skills in visual arts and the like for choices such as Flash, I find RMXP to be a highly potent tool for the purpose I have in mind - and personally, I have to say that I am actually quite satisfied in the reception of the outcome to the intended target audience, so I'd like to call this medium home.  :smile: I do imagine that such reception of a product that would be labeled as a disgrace in the eyes of the expected product - a.k.a. a classical RPG for playability value, and hence would upset some of those who enjoy the latter. Somewhat comparable to Cyanide & Happiness on DeviantArt, I'd imagine - If I were an artist with a polished oil painting, I'd hate to be outshined by a humour-based stick-figure drawing as well.

And that's a good thing? I don't know about you, but I would personally hope that my work would be better than "on part" with the average RPG--which unfortunately isn't that good. I didn't say that his dialogue was bad (I called it horrible as a hook, then explained it further). I have high standards, and it is very rare that I play an RPG Maker game because of that. I only play games that look exceptional, and my criticism is aimed at helping Reives make his game exceptional. If he is fine settling for being "on par" with other RPGs, then my criticism can be disregarded.

I believe that he was targeting the bolded hook subtitles emphasizing "horrible", and simply stating that while it is nothing exceptional, it was a passable foundation to build upon. (While it is a supposed hook, it is still quite a phrase that catches peoples' attention - and usually subtitles actually sums up what one is trying to elaborate.)

But yes, there is much potential improvement on things such as dialogues as a whole. As English is not my first language, there are quite an amount of related mistakes, let alone uneven flow itself, heheh - luckily I had someone to help me clean up the grammatical errors a bit a while back. Glad you brought that up, as I definitely needed a boot to give some attention to its improvement.

None the less, again, just to let you know that the feedback was very much appreciated, Des! If it weren't for feedback like these, this certainly wouldn't be where it is now.

In a way, I guess one can say that raw positive encouraging posts are breads, and helpful criticisms are vegetables.  :lol: Well, in terms of function, not of order of importance.


Edit:
Ugh, 2 new replies before I posted this - Message overflow, heheh - Sorry I didn't get to respond to them! Just so you know that I didn't ignore them, and much thanks for the responses!

Edit 2:
Just finished another panorama, although this time it's exclusive. :p Sorry.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v385/ ... anReiv.jpg[/img]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v385/ ... eiv2-2.jpg[/img]

 

[Erichermit]

With all the edits going on, I thought maybe you could use a post

Those new Panoramas are looking nicely. When do you think you'll be replacing all the ones you didn't make, (if you haven't done so already)?

 

[Taylor]

How many chapters are there going to be? I'm wondering whether I should wait for the complete version or not, as my last demo I have ends with a long cutscene then arrival in .... er... Aeria? I forget the name. ._. Then it ended. So continuing from my save with the next demo means watching the cutscene again.

Still looking beautiful this game!~

 

[Reives]

Thanks Erich. As for the panoramas - I don't know, there just seems to always be better things to do than consciously replacing a lot of them at the moment. Probably won't be a while for a complete revamp, but I will slowly go about at it each release.

There is still quite a long way 'till finish, Jirby. :> The total number of chapters may be between 10 to 14 or so, and would still take quite a while to finish all of them. You can start with that savefile if you want, since you'll probably need to get through that even with later releases anyway, heheh.


P.S. Oh, Vikon's new sprite head revamp is done. Not 100% original but an edit from the current one this time, but still adds an unique touch.


New preview screenshot:

(There are some mapping mistakes there, they're fixed now.)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v385/Reivier/TSS.jpg[/img]

 

[Erichermit]

Ooh, I'm loving that screenshot.  Looks to me like you know how to use the Canopy now, so you can put a line through my comment earlier about fixing how you do canopies. Still go back and check that old cave though and see what you can do, if you feel up to it.

I think sneaking in of that sky and moon off in the corner makes the map seem so much better

Looking forward to the next chapter!

 

[Mittens2317]

I started playing this game, and I must say, it was quite enjoyable. However, it just started too slow for me to get into. Plus, it was a large file size, so was expendable enough to delete in favour for a comics torrent. I look forward to playing it in the future though. The first hour of gameplay from the first chapter definitely won me over. All else I can say is thank you for this game. It is definitely one that will get me through those boring after-work nights.

 

[bradleydfc]

Oh go on I'll go ahead and bump this up for ya.
For my benefit also.
Could you maybe upload the new Vikon sprite, and also do you have a release for Chapter VII yet?

 

[windsaver]

Great system wish you could help with my game. I have a question how do you do those video like parts in the game? Where they talk and do things without you doing it to them?

 

[Dalton]

Er... I guess those are... autorun events or parallel procesess?
That is pretty basic...
But executed quite well in this project. I am still looking forward for chapter VII :grin: