Pedophilia: Healthy Sexual Activity -or- Mental Disorder?

[sixtyandaquarter]

We're talking pedophile in any form of the word described by medical definition and/or by law.
So both.

And since I'm here...

a.) Get out, this subforum is for 16-years-and-older only.

Not anymore, they removed that some time ago.

The Symposium
This forum is for serious discussion and debate. A mature attitude is required to post here.
Moderators: Venetia, sixtyandaquarter

No longer has an age requirement.

 

[___]

I was thirteen once too, and looking back, I was perfectly capable of making such a decision at that age.  Don't lump.

Of making a fully informed decision about whether to have sex with a 30-year-old with a sexual fetish?  I don't know, I'm not going to claim that I know you better than you know you but I'm guessing you're either still under 18 right now, or you have an unrealistic picture of yourself. 

I have yet to meet the 13 year old who is mature, intelligent and experienced enough to fully grasp the repercussions and implications of a sexual relationship with a person who wants you mainly to satisfy a fetish.  That's a decidedly one-sided and usually unhealthy relationship; it's like a person interested in a relationship with another person mainly because they have red hair or blue eyes and the other person being okay with that.  I just don't see how a barely-teenage child can have the sophistication to both understand the social norms and indoctrinated expectations he has in his mind and be ready to dismiss them without emotional consequence. 

Even beyond that, generally speaking 13-year-old is simply not sophisticated enough to hold his own ground in a relationship with an adult.  He is not going to have the strength of will or the social tools to know when he is being manipulated or potentially abused by his partner and be ready to put his foot down.  Granted many adults in sexual relationships also don't have this, but a 13-year-old, there's a 99% chance he doesn't and is going to end up being exploited, with all the normal physical and psychological consequences you see in adults who are in controlling or exploitative relationships and then some.

 

[Dissonance]

I don't know, I'm not going to claim that I know you better than you know you but I'm guessing you're either still under 18 right now, or you have an unrealistic picture of yourself. 

I'm 22, bucko.  And I'M guessing that you find it hard to envision a thirteen year old 'child' that sits outside of that little box you've constructed in your mind as to where all early teenagers must naturally fall.

 

[CERU]

What it is, is sad and tragic that these people have a sexual attraction to children - a sexual attraction that if acted upon, can mentally and emotionally harm the victim.

It is a disorder, but attraction itself is not wrong. Its sad, but not wrong.

 

[___]

I'm 22, bucko.  And I'M guessing that you find it hard to envision a thirteen year old 'child' that sits outside of that little box you've constructed in your mind as to where all early teenagers must naturally fall.

It's not a "little box I've constructed in my mind" it's simply a matter of human psychological advancement, the physical capabilities of the mind to learn about and be ready to adapt to new situations.  I was extremely bright and mature at the age of 13 (if you put any stock in IQ I had a 'mental age' of about 22 at the time) and that gave me enough insight to know that I *wasn't* ready for a sexual relationship. 

Even at that I just hadn't lived long enough and had the the life experiences I needed to understand anything about the give-and-take of a responsible and fulfilling relationship in the standard model, let alone how to make it work when there are extreme differences between the needs and interests of the two (or more) members.  I've never met a 13 year old that has anything more than a naive determination that he does understand that, and I've met a lot of really bright kids.  Usually the ones that do think they know what they're doing and what it's all about and are determined to prove it end up making asses of themselves on daytime talk shows and Dr.Phil...

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

"Anyone who says they're capable of making the right decisions in the past is a moron incapable of making the right opinions on their decisions at any point in the past.  Mark first we believe who we are, and therefor who we always were, as one and the same.  Afterwards mark second that who we were is long since removed from who we are, and that if ever we met the former we would certainly not recognize the resemblance.  Mark third that perhaps the least credible character witness we can give ourselves, is that.  Ourselves."

 

[___]

Nice quote, who was that?

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

No one, else I would have sourced it.
If you haven't learned by now if I put quotations and no source, or no mention of a source, it's to trick people into thinking someone else said it.  If you or I say something, it's not that big of a deal, but if it's a quote and worded fancifully then people pay a little more attention to it :x

 

[Danton Lavergne]

I'm really confused sixty, as how you use the word fantasize. You're saying it's not sexual, but what else could you fantasize about? Playing legos?

As for this whole paedophile thing, I think anyone having any thoughts; acting upon them or not, needs to seek help. It's wrong, and I honestly don't think it will ever be allowed, or considered a different lifestyle. Just the thought of an adult seducing a child is disgusting and I would kick your ass if anyone would. The age of consent was created for a reason. Let's stop trying to bend laws by allowing homosexuality etc. If this keeps going in the way it has for the past few years, people will want to make sex with dogs illegal.

Impossible? Just look where we're headed.

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

Serenade the only time I said fantasize was that I don't fantasize about this, and that the fantasy has to include sex - because yes, you could fantasize about playing legos, or you could fantasize about being a parent with several kids, etc. etc. etc.
Fantasies aren't all sexual.

 

[Danton Lavergne]

Okay well, wanting to be a parent isn't paedophilia at all then.

 

[RavenTDA]

While I don't think it's too far a stretch to say the attraction to kids can be natural (like how there's homosexuals, bisexuals, and hetero etc) I don't think it really matters when it boils down to it. Kid's can't concent. Sex should be contained only to adults I don't care what anyone says. (my idea of kids is 13 or younger as in prepubesent)

Now attraction for those 13 and up that LOOK like adults I don't think there's really anything wrong with the attraction at all. They phsically look adult so there really isn't anything wrong with that IMO. Though on a mental level there can be. That's why there is age laws to protect the innocents that aren't ready because usually by 18 most people are ready for it. But I do agree maturity really isn't an age marker but it's just a failsafe for laws because if we are to have laws it'd be pretty tricky if we had to test maturity for each individual case. Besides if you do want to be with someone on the younger side, just wait. Waiting never hurt anyone.

Now the issue with fantasies... Well yes you can fantasize about anything you damn well please. It's not hurting anyone so think away! And as for the issue with people wanting their fantasies to be real. I wouldn't say that's always the case especially with sexual fantasy. I've read (I forget where) that some women fantasize about being raped but of course do not want this to happen to them. I think this kinda goes along with the ideas of tenticle rape (like someone mentioned before). It's a fantasy not reality. That's why it's a fantasy and not a desire. Desire and fantasy are two differnt things. And while you can desire a fantasy to happen you don't always have to want a fantasy to become reality. Because if the fantasy were reality, well it wouldn't be a fantasy anymore now would it?

 

[Calibre]

Holloway saying the age of consent is 18, it's 16 here isnt it?

And that age is young enough.  No one is going to get in deep shit if they are both 15 and have sex, but it draws a line where adults can begin to pry.

Apart from this, young people are constantly under pressure to lose their virginities and often ridiculed by peers who have.  Of course, by the time you reach legal consent if you haven't done it, you are now deemed uncool.  Most people tend to lose it before.  Therefore if the age was any younger, people WOULD be trying it younger.

"Oh god it becomes legal in a year and we still aren't doing it" better try now.

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

@Raven,
That's why it's derived medically as a fantasy and not a desire if those were the stand point terms - because medically it is considered unhealthy to have the fantasy alone, even without the desire.

 

[Dissonance]

It's not a "little box I've constructed in my mind" it's simply a matter of human psychological advancement, the physical capabilities of the mind to learn about and be ready to adapt to new situations.  I was extremely bright and mature at the age of 13 (if you put any stock in IQ I had a 'mental age' of about 22 at the time) and that gave me enough insight to know that I *wasn't* ready for a sexual relationship. 

Even at that I just hadn't lived long enough and had the the life experiences I needed to understand anything about the give-and-take of a responsible and fulfilling relationship in the standard model, let alone how to make it work when there are extreme differences between the needs and interests of the two (or more) members.  I've never met a 13 year old that has anything more than a naive determination that he does understand that, and I've met a lot of really bright kids.  Usually the ones that do think they know what they're doing and what it's all about and are determined to prove it end up making asses of themselves on daytime talk shows and Dr.Phil...

Then I must be one of your statistical outliers because I did it at 14 (not 13, but I had only turned a few weeks earlier,) I knew exactly what I was doing, and I am not mentally scarred and/or fucked up.

In before some faggot makes a joke about this.  :P

 

[___]

Then I must be one of your statistical outliers because I did it at 14 (not 13, but I had only turned a few weeks earlier,) I knew exactly what I was doing, and I am not mentally scarred and/or fucked up.

With a 30 year old?  Note I'm distinctly talking about a relationship between a mature adult and a pre-teen to young teen, it's a totally different situation between people of the same age because they're roughly intellectual and emotional equals.  If you had sex at 14 with another teenager, more power to you, I know plenty of well-adjusted people who got going pretty young.

And also, this isn't really the place to be slinging juvenile insults at your imagined opponents (I would love to say nowhere is... but it's the internetz).

@Sixty:  Quote-cheater :/  Also I'm personally not sold on the idea that having an odd fantasy is necessarily a precursor to a desire.  I imagine all kind of crazy shit that I'd never want to do in reality, I don't see how if any of those things are considered wrong that makes me potentially harmful.  If I imagine stealing a car and going on a wild freeway chase does it make me a potential car thief or something?  *shrug*

 

[RavenTDA]

Perhaps that is with just your case Dissonance. I know I was really mature when I was little too but most people aren't. So it's basically just making sure for those that aren't. Besides just having sex at that age and having sex with someone who is way older is two differnt things. As well as sex at that age when being manipulated into it. It depends.

@Sixty
People fantasize about killing people and don't do it, but does that mean they have a mental problem? I don't think so. There's a difference between that and obession. If you are obessing over a fantasy then you start to have problems. If you think about it everyday and it starts to affect your life and consume your thoughts then it's an obession and not fantasy which an obession can defintitly turn into desire and reality... that I agree is a problem. But just one fantasy or thought alone I don't find really an issue.

 

[kipani]

I had a run in with a pedo when I was 11, so it stopped me from dating for nearly 10 years. I felt like everyone knew it happened and I felt like a dirty person and wondered things like "Am I pregnant, do I have AIDS, did I catch something" but I was too afraid to tell my parents that something happened. It took almost a year of thinking of it day and night, day and night, nonstop. I was scarred and scared of men until I realized they weren't all like THAT one.

From a first person point of view, I believe It belongs in the same category as rape because I can't imagine any child being ready for that at that age.

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

@Sixty
People fantasize about killing people and don't do it, but does that mean they have a mental problem? I don't think so. There's a difference between that and obession. If you are obessing over a fantasy then you start to have problems. If you think about it everyday and it starts to affect your life and consume your thoughts then it's an obession and not fantasy which an obession can defintitly turn into desire and reality... that I agree is a problem. But just one fantasy or thought alone I don't find really an issue.

I was merely pointing out how it is looked at by the current medical faculty as a whole as of two or so years ago.  It's been in that short time that the idea of something different has started to come out and be looked at more serious.

 

[Marcus]

As far as this age of consent thing goes, I would like to point out that females as young as 10 have fully matured eggs and can conceive.  The semen of most males isn't potent enough until around age 12, but humans mature incredibly fast.  Back in YE OLDE TIMES people would get married at 12-14 and would have sex as soon as the female got her period and the male's balls dropped.  The woman dying during child birth or the baby getting some sort of defect were high, but you can chalk that up to poor medicine.

My point?  I think society has slowly increased the gap between adult and child.  As far as I'm concerned (a lot of countries for that matter) you are officially matured after puberty, but most "developed" countries have limited this age to 16 or 18.  Judaism still firmly believes a boy becomes a man at 13 and most islamic countries marry out their children as early as 12.  Why has it that society has increased the age of maturity when it is, naturally, as soon as puberty hits? 

Americans fear their children are growing up fast but if you ask me, they're growing up slow.  I think the modern education system is stunting the growth of the human child's mind by an incredible degree.  I don't condone forcing sex on anyone of any age, but when you're old enough to think critically, you're old enough to consent.