Legionwood *J-RPG with 15+ hours of gameplay*

[mawk]

There IS a place you can level up before the first area, but the reason that LV2 message is so perplexing is because it's a relic from when I DID have world map encounters. I should change it. By the way, Perihellion, there's a small cave on the world map where you encounter easy bats you should use to reach L2 at least.

so uh
- why is there the ONE tutorial encounter on the world map, then? that's incredibly misleading and suggests to the player that there are more to come
- saying to the player HEY THERE'S AN OUT OF PLACE CAVE WHERE YOU CAN GRIND is not solving the problem. the majority of players are not going to see it as they pass by or stop by there for long, especially since you can't do anything there for a long time. besides, those bats still pose a big challenge to a first-level player

see, the thing about the entrygame in a balanced game is that enemies are easy. give the player time to settle into things. you will have somewhere on the order of 400 HP and enemies will deal 30 to 50 damage each and die in two hits. you will not have 200 HP and enemies who deal 50 to 70 HP and die in three or four hits. it sounds like a few minor differences but it really makes a thing

also you do not have monsters in the entrygame that can simultaneously stun, poison, and do a load of damage to one character.

(like Shakespeare I guess)

nothing of the sort. Shakespeare knew how to write dialogue. your problem isn't being wordy, it's having your characters explicitly explain their emotions and motivations to the audience, and give exposition in a really cluttered and thinly-veiled way.

seriously you did not just compare yourself to Shakespeare. nothing you do justifies that correlation. you do not take criticism about your writing and turn it around and say WELP GUESS I'M AN ARTISTIC GENIUS WITH SKILLS BEYOND YOU PHILISTINES

because man I know beauty and what you do is not it

The opening cut scene is meant to be corny. It was meant from the beggining to sort of be a "oh I'm entering "Ye Olde" RPG better get ready to make my character" sort of thing, if I phrased that correctly.

how did you not expect this to make the player completely lose interest in the characters and story? because that's what it accomplishes. trying to do a serious scene in a serious game in a self-aware joking kind of way doesn't work out (although personally I think you're just covering your ass with the "that's what I meant to do" thing)

Off topic, did anyone be reminded of Pokemon's "Here is my grandson. What was his name again?" comment from it's intro?

yes and it took away from that scene incredibly, even considering the terrible dialogue that preceded it

@Perihellion: That cat thing's a rather lazy attempt to hide an inability to event on my part. I could only manage to event the scene from the front without it looking wierd.

check player's facing
if player is not facing up set a move route to place him in the appropriate space in front of the girl
continue the event as before

 

[Nolund]

I can't resist...

You just got Tomamawk'd (corny I know, but it played out so well)

Hi, erm, please try to stay on topic and don't make this into about who posted what, because that way lies drama and silliness. This isn't about "tomamawk"ing but rather about providing Gaia with useful criticism so that he may improve his game. ~Perihelion

Now, as far as my opinion goes, it's been stated already. Your bats are too powerful for first encounter enemies. I understand the desire to want battles that aren't ridiculously easy (and I employ that same desire in my own projects), but you're making them a little TOO tough. Later down the road fine, but not so early.

Mapping could be better, but my problems have already been addressed.

I hope you take this criticism and roll with it. I know a fair number of people who hear so much feedback and think people hate their project and dump it completely. I'm sure you've put a lot of work into this, and I hope it works out in the end.

 

[Dark Gaia]

Okay, all of your criticism is being noted and I am working hard to address all of your concerns. The opening scenes and parts of the game are in need of an overhaul; as I said, I've improved since then and it shows the further you get in, so I should redo them.

@Mawk: you took that in completely the wrong direction. I wasn't comparing myself to Shakespeare, I was just making a small passing reference in a joking manner. I personally find Shakespeare boring and repetitious, and so was noting that unintentionally this was how my dialogue turned out because of a personal flaw. I DO tend to be quite long winded. As I've said though, I do improve. Those parts of the game should be reworked.

 

[mawk]

@Mawk: you took that in completely the wrong direction. I wasn't comparing myself to Shakespeare, I was just making a small passing reference in a joking manner. I personally find Shakespeare boring and repetitious, and so was noting that unintentionally this was how my dialogue turned out because of a personal flaw. I DO tend to be quite long winded. As I've said though, I do improve. Those parts of the game should be reworked.

what did you expect? if you start obviously trying to downplay a problem to yourself then make a comparison to one of the most well-known and well-liked writers ever, most people's knee-jerk reaction is not going to be "oh heh a little self-effacing humour."

and again, the problem's not that the dialogue is "long winded." it's that the dialogue is dull and unrealistic and in many places it's just strikingly obvious that you're trying to shoehorn exposition in without paying much attention to how it fits. it is a little long winded, yes, but that's by no means the major problem. in fact, long winded as it is, I'd have expected you would have been able to fit in that exposition with much more skill than you did.

p.s. the TM symbol really ruins a title screen for me. I'm fairly sure no one is going to gruffle "Legionwood" as a title for their game in the first place.

 

[Dark Gaia]

The TM is just there to abate my own personal feelings. I like to have TMs, so they go there. I feel that it improves presentation just a little, but if you think it's better without...

Okay, I officially retract my Shakespeare comments...

Also, the reason my writing is a bit off is that I quite literally make it up as I go along. For the next version, I'll go through and rewrite every cutscene.

 

[AuraStorm]

Edit: Nevermind... I figured it out a while ago.

 

[Dark Gaia]

UPDATE NEWS

A new release is currently on the way, expected to arrive in mid January. While it isn't a new chapter release, it is still a release worth getting, due to the fact that it addresses most of the criticisms people have about Legionwood.

In short: This is a version of the game designed to get rid of the things people hate about Legionwood and make it a more appealing game to the people who currently despise it.

Features

I've decided to pretty much overhaul Legionwood as I've decided I want to make it into a game that everyone can play that is fun to play. I'm addressing the most pressing criticisms about the game and turning the game into a more casual game overall. I don't want to make a revolutionary game; just one that is fun and does what it does well. Thus, whether you're a fan of Legionwood already, someone who's never played, or someone who despises the game with a passion, I urge you to try this new release, as it is a new Legionwood and one which I've engineered to appeal more to you.

1. Every line of dialogue in the game and every cutscene will be streamlined and rewritten, and will flow smoother and more naturally.

2. The issues with balancing in the early areas of the game (which thankfully do even out later on) will be resolved. The early game difficulty will more closely match the later areas of the game. You will be able to clear the first dungeon at level one.

3. Several skills and items will be rebalanced as some are too weak/too powerful.

4. Focus will be taken off characterisation and placed upon the story instead. I agree: Legionwood is always awkward in the scenes where I make the characters try to characterise so the story will now become more world driven.

5. A complete playtest will be done and every reported bug and sound error will be fixed.

6. Chapter three will be extended slightly. You'll be able to proceed to Castoth's fortress this time around.

Release Notes

Despite all these massive changes, those currently playing the game will be able to use their save files to continue if they want to.

 

[Dark Gaia]

Update/News - Jan 2010

Hey there everyone!

As I type this, the fourth release of Legionwood is busy being uploaded onto RMN's servers where with luck it will be available to download soon. With that said, if it isn't there when you try to download it, it most likely hasn't been approved yet, so try back in a few hours and it probably will be.

As Legionwood is my main project, I've invested quite a lot of time into it so far (bordering two years now) so it wasn't a very difficult decision in the long run to try and pinpoint people's major concerns with the previous versions of Legionwood and spend time addressing these things and reworking the game to a more likable state rather than simply pressing on with yet another chapter with those problems unfixed, so the main draw of this release is simply being able to see a refined, redone version of Legionwood rather than seeing new content.

In summary: This is the new Legionwood. The game you know is still in there, except now it's different. The bad parts nobody liked are gone, and the good parts have been made much, much better. This is Legionwood in its best form yet. Hopefully if you didn't like the game before, this version will prove to be much more appealing to you. I've worked very hard. Special thanks go to the folks of RMN and HB Games for helping me with this.

For those who were expecting new content however, don't despair! This version of Legionwood brings with it a bigger, expanded chapter three with about a full hour's worth of new story material and quests, plus these little additions as well:

- Rewritten dialogue from the start of chapter one to the end of chapter three. Cut scenes now flow more naturally, are not as boring as they once were and are somewhat shorter too.
- New battle system! The battle system has been upgraded to a later, smoother running version of the Tankentai script, so you can expect new battle abilities based on Tankentai's unique animation capabilities. As well as this, you can expect semi-new battle backgrounds and every single enemy being rebalanced and tweaked to make for an easier but still challenging game.
- Tweaked and rebalanced character stats and growth. Level ups have been made a lot weaker in terms of stat boosts so emphasis is now on the AP system to develop your character (as was originally intended) plus all characters now have roughly the same stat growth, meaning now you truly can create your own class as all restrictions that existed before, such as characters obviously being geared towards spellcasting etc, have been removed.
- New, shorter game intro which is somehow as (if not more) informative storywise as the last one despite only being a tenth as long.

 

[OrbitDuke]

Sweet! It sounds like your revisions are going to be well worth it. I look forward to downloading!

 

[moxie]

I haven't gotten around around to playing this yet, but judging from reading a few of the comments you have problems with overly verbose characters. Here's some advise for your revisions, take it or leave it;

Characters should never spew out their goals and life story unless they have some major motivation to do so. Drop hints here and there if you want us to learn their history or clues about a plot point to come - don't give it to us all in one big dramabomb.

One of the biggest things that irks me about video game writing, JRPGs in particular, is the way they'll take what would have otherwise been a subtle clue and HAMMER IT INTO YOUR SKULL OVER AND OVER until any twists or revelations are obvious because of ham-handed exposition.

Another thing is don't be afraid to have characters be a little deceptive, whether they mean to be or not - unless it's the Voice of God himself giving you exposition, It's going to be a little biased to that character's point of view.

More to come when I play through the demo - BTW I like your windowskin.

 

[Dark Gaia]

Yeah, I know. I learned all those things during the revision so you'll be happy to find the writing very much improved now.

Update
Keep in mind one thing I didn't change is the difficulty. If you found Legionwood hard before, it's roughly the same now. I love hard RPGs, so I tend to make my own ones that way. With that said, you can survive the battles if you think as I and my friends have done.

Here's some advice from a beta tester:

Okay, very simple to survive in Legionwood but you gotta be prepared. Buy Lann the heaviest, strongest weapons and armor you can get but buy Liara the mage's cloak, whip and hat. Now, go and buy Liara the 3 elemental spells and Healing Light, while you get Lann double strike and study enemies.
Finally, enter the menu, select Character, and in the status screen hit A. Spend Lann's AP on Attack and Defense, spend Liara's on Intellect and Defense.
Now spend whatever cash you have left on peptides.

Proceed to Selatan Plains. Have Lann attack in battle and Liara cast spells. Use Salves if wounded and peptides if low on SP. Hang around near the save point until you reach level 2 and you can relax

The golden rule with Legionwood is to not spam attack. In the game's early areas, heal if you fall below 60% of your max HP, and do make sure you cast spells. Also, make sure you spend AP at every level up as without it you cannot raise your stats high enough to survive.

 

[Mega Flare]

is the lag fixed?

 

[Dark Gaia]

Yeah, the lag should be more managable now. I've cleaned up as much as I can.

Update:

I've uploaded a small 2MB patch which will fix the following things in Legionwood 3.12:

- You can no longer get stuck landing your ship at Charn Port.
- You can now complete Demonhold Keep.
- Learning Dual Wielding no longer gives you wierd, rare weapons you shouldn't have.
- Kills the bug that adds Thyrra to your party in Selatan Plains...

This patch is essential if you wish to complete the game. I have submitted it to RMN so expect it to be available within twelve hours. It is very easy to apply and fixes all of this version's problems.

 

[danyo34]

I downloaded the game and started playing it, but didn't get very far. It kind of bugged me that the parchment for the credits and the parchment for the story text are really different from each other. One is all cartoony, and the other is pretty much a photograph. I came across a few errors in the text as well (missed commas, and a spelling mistake-existent), which probably bothers me more than others, but I suggest you also proofread your text more carefully. Music for the credits would also be nice.

 

[Dark Gaia]

You can just go and fuck off out of my thread and throw yourself off a high bridge please. I don't care if you have a problem with the site but you got no business posting that shit in my thread.

 

[Dark Gaia]

I don't care. Your problem is with them, not me. Now, please don't spam my thread. I don't really care how you feel about the site but I'm not really that active here so you don't have to target me.

 

[Dark Gaia]

No. Get out of my thread. I'm sick of the people on this site spamming in it. Go wreck someone else's thread. Why mine?

 

[Dark Gaia]

Okay, well, pick a different thread. That's all I ask. How the hell do you type so fast anyway?

 

[Dark Gaia]

By the way, the pictures you're posting are too big for anyone to see properly, so great job trolling there. Now seriously, pick a different thread and leave mine alone for now. Is there any reason why mine has to suffer? So you don't like the site. Why make my thread a victim?

 

[Dark Gaia]

How old are you anyway? Twelve? Why don't you go and do something like get the fuck back to school and learn to write properly?