Getting jumped at school...

[iceplosion]

I wouldn't call beating the crap out of others justice. If she's eager and willing to do so, hunting them down, as she said, then obviously it isn't just for justice's sake. Plus, my guess is by jumping so called bullies, she's fueling her own self-esteem. Call me an idealist, but justice should be selfless, objective and cold. Not blood-boiling pent-up fury inside a vaguely feminine stick.

This.

@iceplosion:
You're saying that she is worse than the bullies? The bullies did exactly the same thing, except their victims were innocent, plus the fact that the bullies ganged up on people. She did a good thing, for the sake of JUSTICE. You, on the other hand, have a twisted idea of justice.

No, they were kids, if we knocked kids teeth out everytime they did something wrong there would be a lot of people having to get up and put in false teeth every morning.
Its not twisted, do you think mature responsible adults would have let her stalk them and attack them even knowing what they did? No. thats because they know better, what she did was get revenge in a sneaky manner and then she did the exact same things she was beating the other kids up for.
The rules apply to everybody and the only people allowed to give out punishment are the people who are appointed to the job (and they aren't allowed to break the rules either) mature, responsible people, not people who think that an eye for an eye means justice.

 

[Trek22]

At times I'm all for an eye for an eye.  It doesn't have a lot to do with justice as much as settling a personal score with someone who seriously did you wrong.  I'm more to the side of if you were jumped by a group of people and were able to settle that score one on one with each of them later on then good for you.  Of course there are still moral restrictions here.  If all you did was get beaten up that doesn't mean to go permanently deform every person involved for the rest of their lives either.

 

[Emtch]

@iceplosion:
You're saying that she is worse than the bullies? The bullies did exactly the same thing, except their victims were innocent, plus the fact that the bullies ganged up on people. She did a good thing, for the sake of JUSTICE. You, on the other hand, have a twisted idea of justice.

No, they were kids, if we knocked kids teeth out everytime they did something wrong there would be a lot of people having to get up and put in false teeth every morning.
Its not twisted, do you think mature responsible adults would have let her stalk them and attack them even knowing what they did? No. thats because they know better, what she did was get revenge in a sneaky manner and then she did the exact same things she was beating the other kids up for.
The rules apply to everybody and the only people allowed to give out punishment are the people who are appointed to the job (and they aren't allowed to break the rules either) mature, responsible people, not people who think that an eye for an eye means justice.

So you're saying that if someone hurts another person, there should be no punishment for it? That kind of attitude is the reason that violent gangs still exist. Since there is no consequences for criminality and violence, what's the catch in being nice? Why should some people be allowed to fight while others are not?

And another thing... by "mature, responsible adults" you mean "brainwashed, mindless slaves for the system, who don't have any opinions of their own" right?

 

[e]

There should be punishment. Except that beating the shit out of someone because they did so is flawed, Old Testament  logic. Punishment isn't necessarily physical, and we all know sequestration hurts more in the long run than a broken thumb.

Though I have to agree with the "responsible mature adults" part. Most judges simply apply the law without regards to any kind of moral or ethics; they assume that the work's been done before by their betters, so why bother questioning it? Kind of dumb, but at the same time, who'd want to re-do the law system? Anyhow...

 

[Dissonance]

NO. learn some manners, you don't hit people because you can, also if you got your ass kicked by four girls (I don't care if you're a girl or not, if you could beat up the male bullies, guys bigger than most other people then a few girls wouldn't be an issue) you're not as strong as you say, you're just some twisted sadist with a broken view of life who tries to beat up people when she can.

If I just hit people because I could, or I was a 'twisted sadist', I probably would've bullied the little guys with the bullies.

Necessary? Who the **** do you think you are!? what you did was worse, you had no right to do what you did and you had no right to make that decision, the only thing worse than a bully is a self righteous bully.

First off, it's "fuck".  If you're going to accuse me of acting childish, at least act like an adult yourself.

Who I was (and still am to a degree) was a person with the inclination to help out smaller kids and the physical strength to do so.  What gives me the right was the fact that the teachers didn't give a shit, the parents didn't give a shit, and had I not done anything the little Johnny that I had saved may very well have killed himself a few years later simply because a group of pricks decided to gang up on him.  I was known in my school for being the ONLY one that stood up to bullying groups.  If I had ignored it, there wouldn't have been anybody else to help.

If you can seriously find fault in that then you are an outrageous asshole.

Oh my God! A girl!? on the internet!? Will you go out with me!!11!?
Should I care? You do realize you were a self righteous bully regardless of gender right?

I realize that I was a person that pulled quite a few asses out of the fire.  Being a girl only made it more insulting to the kids that I beat up.

Once again no, teenage males will fight with each other and its human nature, females do not have the same hormone (don't know it off hand, I have a friend who is a psychologist and will ask next time I get the chance) that causes that reaction,

Ah back to the old 'natural' argument.  It's natural for men to fight due to whatever macguffin you're presenting here, and it's NOT natural for women to fight under that same reason?  So where are you taking that?  I shouldn't have done what I did due to my sex?  I must have some kind of abnormal chemical imbalance?

Actually, let's assume all that is true for a minute.  Maybe I do have a hormonal deal going on that made me more inclined to fight.

So what?

I still saved smaller kids from being beat up, and I still made it damn clear to the larger ones that they were not going to bully anybody without facing me first.

as for equal punishment that is complete bullshit, I'm a law student, My brother is a lawyer and my father is a judge, I know more about this than you. Laws are made around human nature and punishments are based on all circumstances and factors as well as the crime, equal punishment is just something shouted by the uninformed.

Laws aren't made around human nature, they're not even made around logic - they're made around whatever benefits the people in power.  Though, as a law student, I can see why you would so ideally think otherwise.

No, they were kids, immature kids with problems, you don't get to decide what they do and don't deserve especially not when you are a kid yourself and more importantly with your views you aren't the kind of person who would ever be allowed to decide that.

What, the view that people should be punished if they bully each other?  Yes, you seem to have the same attitude as the parents and school systems - just let it happen.  It's not important.  They're just kids.  It's thoughts like that, and people like you that allow them, that build up to things like school shootings and suicide attempts.

They were kids, yes.  And I was a kid, yes.  But so were their victims.  It's quite obvious that saving the victim of bullying comes before the well-being of the bully himself, even if the bully is also a kid.  Nobody else cared to do it, so I did.  Plain and simple.

Things like 'justice' are not concrete concepts cemented in the pages of one of your text books, Mr. Law Student.  The home of justice isn't in the laws or in our court system, even though that's quite a lovely thing to believe.  It's quite obvious you haven't lived enough to realize this.

You're a self righteous bully, these were people just like you, people no more or no less important than you and people with the same rights as you and you are not above them, you do not get to decide how or even if they are punished especially not because they have a different personality than you.

And the victims were also people.  You seem quite adamant on forgetting them.  Maybe it's because their suffering is justification for what I did, especially when nobody else would do it?

Any permanent damage those girls were left with they will have to live with for the rest of their lives because of a stupid argument as a kid, They didn't deserve a damn thing,

Yes, they did.  It's damn obvious by your use of diction that you seem to belittle the years one spends as a child, but those of us with an actual functioning brain know that bullying is highly damaging and does reverberate into a person's adult life.  The victims of those four girls were quite thankful, and the four girls themselves recovered quite nicely, after their next set of teeth grew in.

In fact, after I returned from my suspension, I found out that in my absence the four of them hadn't picked on a single kid - and as far as I know, they never did again.  I shared classes with them in high school, talked to them casually, the whole nine yards.  The beatings I gave them was a wakeup call more than anything, and they took it as such.

As for their victims?  They went to the same high school, and generally had a regular teenage life.  The damage I did to those girls was negligible compared to what they were doing to their victims.

now go seek psychological help before your views make you do something like that again and you end up in prison. (When you're a kid you get away with it, against my better judgement I'll assume you are an adult now and can be tried as such, a temper and attitude like that is usually what causes someone to go on trial for assault)

I've done it as an adult as well, mostly to grade school bullies I find beating up a lone kid on the street.  It's actually a little fun now because I can lift up one with each hand and smash them or throw them around.  I haven't gotten caught yet, though.

In any case, answer me this - what is a kid like that supposed to do when the parents don't give a shit, the teachers don't give a shit, passerby aren't intervening, and the police are nowhere to be found?  Simply close their eyes, and remember the rantings iceplosion gave about "justice" and "the bullies are only little kids", and that will somehow make them feel better as their face is getting kicked in?

You don't know a damn thing about the world.

No, they were kids, if we knocked kids teeth out everytime they did something wrong there would be a lot of people having to get up and put in false teeth every morning.

You're equating 'bullying' with everyday, normal child tomfoolery.  If a kid is stealing a cookie from mom's cookie jar, unless he's a 300 pound kid on a strict diet, it's not a big deal.  Bullying is extremely damaging, and if a few good punches to the face teach the bullies to stop harassing smaller kids every day, it's worth it.

Its not twisted, do you think mature responsible adults would have let her stalk them and attack them even knowing what they did? No. thats because they know better, what she did was get revenge in a sneaky manner and then she did the exact same things she was beating the other kids up for.

I am not a little wimp that sits back and lets 4 other people gangbeat me (read: that's bullying).

The schools believed them over me, so I gave them exactly what they deserved.  Considering they never bullied anybody after that, it was a good move.

She isn't worse or better. Just the same. I wouldn't call beating the crap out of others justice. If she's eager and willing to do so, hunting them down, as she said, then obviously it isn't just for justice's sake. Plus, my guess is by jumping so called bullies, she's fueling her own self-esteem. Call me an idealist, but justice should be selfless, objective and cold. Not blood-boiling pent-up fury inside a vaguely feminine stick.

I would argue that it was for the sake of Justice but let's assume that it's not for a minute.

Does the intent actually matter?

Murderer kills a person, and escapes.  Police can't find him.  Family is angry due to lack of closure.  Months later, the murderer is killed over an unrelated issue.  You'd be hard pressed to find a family that doesn't think that there's some form of justice evolved there - even if they call it, divine, karmic, or ironic.

The bullies were bullies.  Period.  I beat them up.  Even if you think I didn't beat them up specifically to serve justice, justice was served anyway.

--------------------------------------

Long and short of it is, there are kids that are being bullied in school at the very second I type this post that have no method of recourse.  Their parents don't take them seriously.  The bullies' parents don't care.  The teachers do, at best, token gestures, claiming they'll "look into it".  Any kind of official authority figure that actually gives a damn can't keep an eye on everybody at all times.  If you honestly fault me for stepping in when the system that is in place is like that, you either were a bully yourself or have grown too old to remember what it's like to be in school.

 

[syphonmax]

O_O wow I lost my mind reading that....Bloody hell you should be in a debate class, you'll pwn me anyday xD

 

[e]

Well, honestly, the matter of intent vs consequences has been debated for so long that it's hard to say there's a definite answer. My take is it's a bit of both; so yes, the intent does matter. It does change the moral value of your actions. But I'm probably not the best person discuss both positions, as much smarter people have done so before, and very extensively.

The bullies were bullies.  Period.  I beat them up.  Even if you think I didn't beat them up specifically to serve justice, justice was served anyway.

But it's a short-sighted way to deal with the problem. In the end, what does that change? Either they reiterate, or new bullies appear; you're not solving the problem, which is usually the goal of Justice. You're temporarily disabling it. Even though you believe it might help, in the long run it's just another drop of water in the ocean. It probably was the quickest way to deal with the problem, and, considering we're creatures of passion, it's hard to blame someone for revenge, but honestly, you can't argue that this was the right thing to do. It might've seemed necessary, and might have been (of course, we here don't have access to ALL the information), but it's hardly the right thing.

 

[Dissonance]

But it's a short-sighted way to deal with the problem. In the end, what does that change? Either they reiterate, or new bullies appear; you're not solving the problem, which is usually the goal of Justice. You're temporarily disabling it. Even though you believe it might help, in the long run it's just another drop of water in the ocean. It probably was the quickest way to deal with the problem, and, considering we're creatures of passion, it's hard to blame someone for revenge, but honestly, you can't argue that this was the right thing to do. It might've seemed necessary, and might have been (of course, we here don't have access to ALL the information), but it's hardly the right thing.

And it would be quite hard to argue that it wasn't the right thing to do if you were the one who was getting gangbeat by a group of other kids all bigger, tougher, and meaner looking than you, instead of being far away from the situation on an internet rpgmaker forum.

As for solving the problem, it's unsolvable.  All that shit about freedom at the cost of eternal vigilance.  There will always be a faggotty little bastard inclined to bully others no matter how much we reform our ways of raising children, ways of teaching, ways of passing judgement, etc.  So there will always need to be somebody there willing to kick that kid in the face until he either stops or kills himself (and if he does kill himself, better one death than say, ten of his victims all killing themselves later in life.)

Your speech is pretty, but you're referring to some mystical 'solution' that doesn't exist and will never exist in the future.

 

[e]

Until some day no one can kick the bully's face. Then what? Whoop-dee-do, violence doesn't work! What now? Well, we don't know any better. So we'll wait until someone can beat up the bully.

I'm sure you can see the limitations of violence as being the only answer. It works on the short run, but in the long run, there are other means of punishment which are just as or more effective (i.e. : sequestration, isolation, removal of certain privileges). If the bully is just plain rabid (or nearly) and beating up others is pathological for him, then beating him up will CERTAINLY not change anything; what he needs is most likely meds or psychological care (which he probably will not get because of the expensive cost). Violence should your last resort, not the first solution that pops in your mind.

Furthermore, the fact that it was a necessary thing do protect the smaller kids doesn't make it right. Ethic and reality are two different things.

 

[Dissonance]

Until some day no one can kick the bully's face. Then what? Whoop-dee-do, violence doesn't work! What now? Well, we don't know any better. So we'll wait until someone can beat up the bully.

Yes because someday a god will pop out of some mother's vagina and be completely unstoppable.  The strongest adult in the world is still stronger than the strongest kid in the world.

I'm sure you can see the limitations of violence as being the only answer. It works on the short run, but in the long run, there are other means of punishment which are just as or more effective (i.e. : sequestration, isolation, removal of certain privileges). If the bully is just plain rabid (or nearly) and beating up others is pathological for him, then beating him up will CERTAINLY not change anything; what he needs is most likely meds or psychological care (which he probably will not get because of the expensive cost). Violence should your last resort, not the first solution that pops in your mind.

Yes because going to a kid while he's beating up somebody else and saying "hey dere if you don't stop i'm removing a privilege" will definately get him to halt immediately.  No, you force him to stop.  Violence is used to stop the situation and subdue the attacker - once that has happened, then you can even think about other forms of punishment.  And even then, the people that can actually accomplish these other forms of punishment have no intention of doing so in our present society.

You don't seem to comprehend yet that every single mechanism within the system is set up so that bullying can go on unnoticed.  All of these alternative punishments are fine and good but mean dick all if the people who have the power to enforce them DON'T.

When the situation has become so institutionalized and inescapable that vigilantism is the only option for defense, violence isn't the first solution - it's the only one.

Furthermore, the fact that it was a necessary thing do protect the smaller kids doesn't make it right. Ethic and reality are two different things.

Actually, that's the very definition of 'right'.  Necessary to protect the victim.

 

[iceplosion]

@iceplosion:
You're saying that she is worse than the bullies? The bullies did exactly the same thing, except their victims were innocent, plus the fact that the bullies ganged up on people. She did a good thing, for the sake of JUSTICE. You, on the other hand, have a twisted idea of justice.

No, they were kids, if we knocked kids teeth out everytime they did something wrong there would be a lot of people having to get up and put in false teeth every morning.
Its not twisted, do you think mature responsible adults would have let her stalk them and attack them even knowing what they did? No. thats because they know better, what she did was get revenge in a sneaky manner and then she did the exact same things she was beating the other kids up for.
The rules apply to everybody and the only people allowed to give out punishment are the people who are appointed to the job (and they aren't allowed to break the rules either) mature, responsible people, not people who think that an eye for an eye means justice.

So you're saying that if someone hurts another person, there should be no punishment for it? That kind of attitude is the reason that violent gangs still exist. Since there is no consequences for criminality and violence, what's the catch in being nice? Why should some people be allowed to fight while others are not?

And another thing... by "mature, responsible adults" you mean "brainwashed, mindless slaves for the system, who don't have any opinions of their own" right?

No, I mean people who know violence only causes more violence.

NO. learn some manners, you don't hit people because you can, also if you got your ass kicked by four girls (I don't care if you're a girl or not, if you could beat up the male bullies, guys bigger than most other people then a few girls wouldn't be an issue) you're not as strong as you say, you're just some twisted sadist with a broken view of life who tries to beat up people when she can.

If I just hit people because I could, or I was a 'twisted sadist', I probably would've bullied the little guys with the bullies.

Nope, not everyone likes the same kind of target.

Necessary? Who the **** do you think you are!? what you did was worse, you had no right to do what you did and you had no right to make that decision, the only thing worse than a bully is a self righteous bully.

First off, it's "fuck".  If you're going to accuse me of acting childish, at least act like an adult yourself.

Who I was (and still am to a degree) was a person with the inclination to help out smaller kids and the physical strength to do so.  What gives me the right was the fact that the teachers didn't give a shit, the parents didn't give a shit, and had I not done anything the little Johnny that I had saved may very well have killed himself a few years later simply because a group of pricks decided to gang up on him.  I was known in my school for being the ONLY one that stood up to bullying groups.  If I had ignored it, there wouldn't have been anybody else to help.

If you can seriously find fault in that then you are an outrageous asshole.

First off, it's not fuck, because acting like an adult does not mean typing swear words on internet forums, I'll leave that to the twelve year olds.
Also I love your reasoning that if I disagree with you I am outrageous asshole, I bet you were on the debate team at school, right?

standing up for him means stepping in when they attack "little johnny" and making them stop avoiding violence if it all possible, any other fighting, any bullying of bullies is just as bad if not worse, and you shouldn't have needed to do it more than once, you should have gone to teachers, the principal, your parents, that kids parents, whoever. don't even try to tell me all those groups didn't give a fuck (happy now?) because if that were true you'd probably be dead by now.

Oh my God! A girl!? on the internet!? Will you go out with me!!11!?
Should I care? You do realize you were a self righteous bully regardless of gender right?

I realize that I was a person that pulled quite a few asses out of the fire.  Being a girl only made it more insulting to the kids that I beat up.

Bully is a gender neutral term.

Once again no, teenage males will fight with each other and its human nature, females do not have the same hormone (don't know it off hand, I have a friend who is a psychologist and will ask next time I get the chance) that causes that reaction,

Ah back to the old 'natural' argument.  It's natural for men to fight due to whatever macguffin you're presenting here, and it's NOT natural for women to fight under that same reason?  So where are you taking that?  I shouldn't have done what I did due to my sex?  I must have some kind of abnormal chemical imbalance?

Actually, let's assume all that is true for a minute.  Maybe I do have a hormonal deal going on that made me more inclined to fight.

So what?

impossible, women don't even produce the hormone I'm talking about (it's not testosterone) and don't go and say you're a hemaphrodite on your next post just to continue that part of the argument.

as for equal punishment that is complete bullshit, I'm a law student, My brother is a lawyer and my father is a judge, I know more about this than you. Laws are made around human nature and punishments are based on all circumstances and factors as well as the crime, equal punishment is just something shouted by the uninformed.

Laws aren't made around human nature, they're not even made around logic - they're made around whatever benefits the people in power.  Though, as a law student, I can see why you would so ideally think otherwise.

No, as someone who is a law student and who has been hearing about all kinds of cases since he was a kid and who studies how all the laws were made I can tell you my argument is right because it is what books say, it is what professors say and it is what experts say, are you trying to say you know more than me and all these people? (don't even call me or them the people in power, I'm specialising in human rights to help people, my professor did the same as did the head of the law department, the people who make laws do the best they can to provide for everyone its never gonna be perfect but it doesn't just benefit a few, you just think that because you don't know what the laws are, don't worry it's a common mistake, but you're just wrong)

No, they were kids, immature kids with problems, you don't get to decide what they do and don't deserve especially not when you are a kid yourself and more importantly with your views you aren't the kind of person who would ever be allowed to decide that.

What, the view that people should be punished if they bully each other?  Yes, you seem to have the same attitude as the parents and school systems - just let it happen.  It's not important.  They're just kids.  It's thoughts like that, and people like you that allow them, that build up to things like school shootings and suicide attempts.

They were kids, yes.  And I was a kid, yes.  But so were their victims.  It's quite obvious that saving the victim of bullying comes before the well-being of the bully himself, even if the bully is also a kid.  Nobody else cared to do it, so I did.  Plain and simple.

Things like 'justice' are not concrete concepts cemented in the pages of one of your text books, Mr. Law Student.  The home of justice isn't in the laws or in our court system, even though that's quite a lovely thing to believe.  It's quite obvious you haven't lived enough to realize this.

Do not ever say that. I grew up in Northern Ireland, it's a nice place now and maybe you aren't old enough to remember the eighties and early nineties but I am and I grew up in a god damn warzone, everything you've seen I've seen worse, do your research and look. you can't say I haven't lived enough it's quite obvious you aren't even really reading what I'm typing coming up with arguments like that.

You're a self righteous bully, these were people just like you, people no more or no less important than you and people with the same rights as you and you are not above them, you do not get to decide how or even if they are punished especially not because they have a different personality than you.

And the victims were also people.  You seem quite adamant on forgetting them.  Maybe it's because their suffering is justification for what I did, especially when nobody else would do it?

No, people should protect themselves and if they can't they should ask for help, but they should get it from the right person and fighting bullies with bullies is useless.
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, ever hear that before?

Any permanent damage those girls were left with they will have to live with for the rest of their lives because of a stupid argument as a kid, They didn't deserve a damn thing,

Yes, they did.  It's damn obvious by your use of diction that you seem to belittle the years one spends as a child, but those of us with an actual functioning brain know that bullying is highly damaging and does reverberate into a person's adult life.  The victims of those four girls were quite thankful, and the four girls themselves recovered quite nicely, after their next set of teeth grew in.

So I don't have a functioning brain? MENSA is gonna be pissed... (no I didn't have to mention that but if you are going to resort to insults I'm going to be arrogant)
There is no such thing as absolute good or evil and if a person is grateful that you performed a questionable act (the fact we are having this argument means it was questionable) then the gratitude itself is questionable. If I killed George Bush a lot of people would be grateful, it doesn't make it the right thing to do though.

In fact, after I returned from my suspension, I found out that in my absence the four of them hadn't picked on a single kid - and as far as I know, they never did again.  I shared classes with them in high school, talked to them casually, the whole nine yards.  The beatings I gave them was a wakeup call more than anything, and they took it as such.

As for their victims?  They went to the same high school, and generally had a regular teenage life.  The damage I did to those girls was negligible compared to what they were doing to their victims.

It was damage you had no right to inflict, just because they were wrong doesn't mean you had to be.
Ask them if they're proud of their bullying, I bet you they aren't.

now go seek psychological help before your views make you do something like that again and you end up in prison. (When you're a kid you get away with it, against my better judgement I'll assume you are an adult now and can be tried as such, a temper and attitude like that is usually what causes someone to go on trial for assault)

I've done it as an adult as well, mostly to grade school bullies I find beating up a lone kid on the street.  It's actually a little fun now because I can lift up one with each hand and smash them or throw them around.  I haven't gotten caught yet, though.

I'm not even sure if you're joking or not (Is Dissonance a joke account?) but yeah that's exactly what I mean, if you were caught once you would be psychologically tested (I've already completed the criminal profiling course so allow me to assist you by pointing out that you would be absolutely fucked at this point) and you would be tried for more than assault, you could possibly be tried as a sex offender if it was determined you recieved enjoyment from beating these kids (and you have said you do)

In any case, answer me this - what is a kid like that supposed to do when the parents don't give a shit, the teachers don't give a shit, passerby aren't intervening, and the police are nowhere to be found?  Simply close their eyes, and remember the rantings iceplosion gave about "justice" and "the bullies are only little kids", and that will somehow make them feel better as their face is getting kicked in?

You don't know a damn thing about the world.

All you do is say that over and over again yet I can tell you I am intelligent, educated I have travelled all over the world and seen the best and worst it has to offer, I've dealt with bullies and at the end of it I don't have issues like you do. Also I recall running being an option but let me guess you have an answer there too, I bet only the crippled kids get bullied right?

No, they were kids, if we knocked kids teeth out everytime they did something wrong there would be a lot of people having to get up and put in false teeth every morning.

You're equating 'bullying' with everyday, normal child tomfoolery.  If a kid is stealing a cookie from mom's cookie jar, unless he's a 300 pound kid on a strict diet, it's not a big deal.  Bullying is extremely damaging, and if a few good punches to the face teach the bullies to stop harassing smaller kids every day, it's worth it.

You think that but the bullies don't and niether would most sane people (see how I used your type of reasoning with that most sane people thing? are you convinced I'm right yet? No? now imagine how unconvincing your posts are.)

Its not twisted, do you think mature responsible adults would have let her stalk them and attack them even knowing what they did? No. thats because they know better, what she did was get revenge in a sneaky manner and then she did the exact same things she was beating the other kids up for.

I am not a little wimp that sits back and lets 4 other people gangbeat me (read: that's bullying).

The schools believed them over me, so I gave them exactly what they deserved.  Considering they never bullied anybody after that, it was a good move.

I'm not a wimp either, I'm honorable though, you didn't even have the guts to face those bullies head on, you stalked them and picked the right time to jump them. You're a sneaky self righteous bully hiding behind the idea you're protecting someone.
Also it sounds like you have issues with people thinking you are a wimp.

She isn't worse or better. Just the same. I wouldn't call beating the crap out of others justice. If she's eager and willing to do so, hunting them down, as she said, then obviously it isn't just for justice's sake. Plus, my guess is by jumping so called bullies, she's fueling her own self-esteem. Call me an idealist, but justice should be selfless, objective and cold. Not blood-boiling pent-up fury inside a vaguely feminine stick.

I would argue that it was for the sake of Justice but let's assume that it's not for a minute.

Does the intent actually matter?

Murderer kills a person, and escapes.  Police can't find him.  Family is angry due to lack of closure.  Months later, the murderer is killed over an unrelated issue.  You'd be hard pressed to find a family that doesn't think that there's some form of justice evolved there - even if they call it, divine, karmic, or ironic.

Actually intent does matter, a lot, if its accidental murder its manslaughter which is less than ten years, if its intentional its 25 years to life. also the ends justify the means is the wrong way to look at things, thats something that has been said over and over throughout history. another thing said throughout history is that eye for an eye phrase, did the person who killed the murderer get away? Thats not justice at all. also jail and other "punishments" are not there to hurt people but to reform them and make them better, otherwise we would still have the death penalty (well maybe you do, but civilised countries have outlawed it)

The bullies were bullies.  Period.  I beat them up.  Even if you think I didn't beat them up specifically to serve justice, justice was served anyway.

So even if no one else thinks its justice as long as you think its justice it is? how does that work? At what point were you chosen by humanity to decide what justice is?

--------------------------------------

Long and short of it is, there are kids that are being bullied in school at the very second I type this post that have no method of recourse.  Their parents don't take them seriously.  The bullies' parents don't care.  The teachers do, at best, token gestures, claiming they'll "look into it".  Any kind of official authority figure that actually gives a damn can't keep an eye on everybody at all times.  If you honestly fault me for stepping in when the system that is in place is like that, you either were a bully yourself or have grown too old to remember what it's like to be in school.

Thats not true and you know it, these are lies you are telling yourself to justify your actions but you can't possibly know that, sweeping generalizations like that are never right.

I don't care that you're a bully and proud of it but don't think for a second anyone but you believes vigilante justice (Even if its grade school vigilante justice) is ever right, there's a reason it's a crime too.

 

[@MrRobert]

I fucking lol'd at this thread. XD

 

[syphonmax]

I did more than lol I pissed myself xD

 

[e]

I give up. It's clearly a matter of perspective, as even our definition of what is right/wrong differs. I admire you for standing up for little kids as they were being beaten up, but hunting down the bullies before/after is a bit extreme, and will ultimately lead you nowhere. Your rebuttal to my "other forms of punishment" proposal was a bit weak;

Yes because going to a kid while he's beating up somebody else and saying "hey dere if you don't stop i'm removing a privilege" will definately get him to halt immediately.

What if its not while he's beating up someone? What if you purposely stalk them, wait for them to be alone and then beat the living shit out of them? Will that definitely get them to halt? Halt what? Walking? Talking?

Your complain obviously seems to be that adults, who have the power to stop bullying, do not use that power. Very well, that might be true where you are, I have no means to confirm/infirm this. I still say it doesn't make it right, only necessary. And NO, right is not necessity. Killing in self-defense isn't morally right; it was necessary.

Merriam-Webster gives, as a definition, "What is righteous". What is righteous, then? It says :

1. acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin
2.
a) morally right or justifiable <a righteous decision>
b) arising from an outraged sense of justice or morality <righteous indignation>

Obviously, the first one only applies if you're a religious person (which I am not). But nowhere is necessity mentioned when it comes to what is morally right. Equating necessity and ethic is a flawed means to justify (not explain, but literally justify, or in other words, "make virtuous") violence.

 

[holloway]

Jesus you're getting in a debate over playground fighting? For fucks sakes, welcome to the real world- if they attack you or a weaker mate, you bloody well fight back.

 

[bedi nik bzez emak]

;D

 

[iceplosion]

Jesus you're getting in a debate over playground fighting? For fucks sakes, welcome to the real world- if they attack you or a weaker mate, you bloody well fight back.

Exactly. If I had a million quid I'd give it to you.

I think maybe Ice has a problem with the concept of standing up for yourself or for others who don't have the ability to stand up for themselves, basically what I have read it seems he would rather stand idally by while someone is being bullied, or just curl up in a ball if he himself were being bullied.

The fact is, if your getting bullied be a man/woman and fight back don't just stand there and think I'm bigger than this your not, fight back, it's called survival/protection.

When I was in high school someone tried to bully me, I didn't stand there and say "oh noes" I punched him and that was the end of it, someone in a lower year was being bullied for months by someone in the year above him (the same year I was in) the teachers didn't do anything and neither did the parents, what, so I'm supposed to let this kid get bullied forever? NO, I kick the shit of the bully and warned him never to do it again, he didn't and the kid was never bullied again.

Arbiter I don't know if you read it earlier but I'm really big, you'd have to be an idiot to attack me but I sure as hell wouldn't curl up in a ball, what I have a problem with is people getting revenge and proudly calling it justice, standing up for yourself and stalking someone and attacking them when you get the chance are two completely different things.

If I have a problem with somebody I'll face them head on instead of trying to be sneaky and get revenge when I see an opportunity, and either way I wouldn't be proud of it.

 

[shiroun]

O_O wow I lost my mind reading that....Bloody hell you should be in a debate class, you'll pwn me anyday xD

No offence, a broom could pwn you. All it would have to do is stay silent for about an hour while you say random stuff about southpark and sex...

 

[holloway]

Or just say that there was this one guy whos name was Hitler...

 

[shiroun]

LOL, that works too. Except when your in germany. Then they chase you out.


Anyway ontopic:

Never been jumped, gotten into a hella lot of fights tho.