Force-feeding anorexics
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Anorexia is not important to me personally, I just happen to be educated in the matter. What is important, though, is that you accept that you're wrong and stop shitting all over the symposium.
Disagreeing with a fact does not negate that fact, it just makes you an idiot.
Disagreeing with a fact does not negate that fact, it just makes you an idiot.
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Holly":3je7dief said:
I just love the way you carry on a debate. Since I dont agree with you, then I must be an idiot. Ever heard of the flat earth society? Its an internet site dedicated to questioning "well established facts". Do you have any proof the world is really round other than what some other people told you? Yeah, Im positive the world really is round but thats not the point. Thinking for yourself, its a good habit.
Anyway, you guys can have your thread. I hope you all have fun agreeing with one another.
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anorexia nervosa is a mental illness. I admire your determination in trying to redefine words and selectively ignore arguments until that's not the case, but it's become painfully clear that you think you know a couple things that you really don't.
just please never post in the symposium ever again your habit of terminally misunderstanding arguments paired with your incredible stubbornness pretty much fuck any thread you happen to
just please never post in the symposium ever again your habit of terminally misunderstanding arguments paired with your incredible stubbornness pretty much fuck any thread you happen to
I know you all are kind of in a huff over Nikki's incorrigibility, but I actually found the "missedthepointitis" pretty funny. :smile:
In fairness to Nikki, you guys aren't doing much to prove your point in a convincing fashion. You contradict her without any citation of reputable sources or logical argumentation. Indeed you've succumbed to an elementary form of debate in dealing with Nikki known as 'proof by assertion.' When that fails to convince her, you resort to ad hominem which does nothing to prove your point but does put Nikki on the defensive.
In otherwords, to illustrate this debate in a simplified form.
"I don't think AN is a disease."
"Yes it is, that's a fact."
"I don't believe you."
"Well... you're stupid!"
"Screw you!"
All of that being said, before Nikki entered this debate Holly did a fantastic job of building a reasonable and understandable argument as to why AN is a disease. The onus should therefor be on Nikki to prove otherwise if she disagrees using logical argumentation and cited information from external sources. Nikki has not done this, so her argument falls short.
But just because she doesn't follow appropriate debate conventions doesn't give everyone else the excuse not to. A better approach would have been to simply refer back to Holly's post, and if Nikki still doesn't want to accept AN is a disease, you then provide answers to her concerns. Even if they're redundant. But you do so without resorting to an uncivilized approach to the topic. If you're going to be arguing with each other, you have to handle the heat.
Anyway, that's all I really wanted to add to this discussion.
Cheers!
In fairness to Nikki, you guys aren't doing much to prove your point in a convincing fashion. You contradict her without any citation of reputable sources or logical argumentation. Indeed you've succumbed to an elementary form of debate in dealing with Nikki known as 'proof by assertion.' When that fails to convince her, you resort to ad hominem which does nothing to prove your point but does put Nikki on the defensive.
In otherwords, to illustrate this debate in a simplified form.
"I don't think AN is a disease."
"Yes it is, that's a fact."
"I don't believe you."
"Well... you're stupid!"
"Screw you!"
All of that being said, before Nikki entered this debate Holly did a fantastic job of building a reasonable and understandable argument as to why AN is a disease. The onus should therefor be on Nikki to prove otherwise if she disagrees using logical argumentation and cited information from external sources. Nikki has not done this, so her argument falls short.
But just because she doesn't follow appropriate debate conventions doesn't give everyone else the excuse not to. A better approach would have been to simply refer back to Holly's post, and if Nikki still doesn't want to accept AN is a disease, you then provide answers to her concerns. Even if they're redundant. But you do so without resorting to an uncivilized approach to the topic. If you're going to be arguing with each other, you have to handle the heat.
Anyway, that's all I really wanted to add to this discussion.
Cheers!
Ok, Vadon's post encouraged me to give this one last go. I'll try not to be "shitty" but my opinions always seem to be labeled that on this forum.
I see it as sort of a moral issue, or a politically correct thing. This applies to all sorts of things that have been labeled diseases even though they are intentionally inflicted.
Saying that I want people to be held responsible for their own choices in life is me making a moral judgement on someone. It is politically incorrect to "impose my morality on others". The politically correct forces in our country do all that they can to relive everyone of personal responsiblity. The "everything is a disease" thing is just one facet of this trend. Obviously, by labeling it a disease the afflicted cannot be held accountable.
Im a very un-PC sort of person. That, I think is why my opinions are so often met with such hostility. I think most problems have a very simple solution, but the PCs want to complicate matters, because they are afraid they might offend someone if they tell the simple truth of the matter. Its like handing out band-aids to amputees. "I know you are bleeding profusely, but I will pretend its just a scratch so I dont scare ya."
Problem: I am suffering from anorexia.
Solution: Fucking eat something! Problem solved.
Now, if you really want to give me a warning for sharing my opinion in the only way I know how: bluntly, without pretense; then by all means do so. I dont care.
I see it as sort of a moral issue, or a politically correct thing. This applies to all sorts of things that have been labeled diseases even though they are intentionally inflicted.
Saying that I want people to be held responsible for their own choices in life is me making a moral judgement on someone. It is politically incorrect to "impose my morality on others". The politically correct forces in our country do all that they can to relive everyone of personal responsiblity. The "everything is a disease" thing is just one facet of this trend. Obviously, by labeling it a disease the afflicted cannot be held accountable.
Im a very un-PC sort of person. That, I think is why my opinions are so often met with such hostility. I think most problems have a very simple solution, but the PCs want to complicate matters, because they are afraid they might offend someone if they tell the simple truth of the matter. Its like handing out band-aids to amputees. "I know you are bleeding profusely, but I will pretend its just a scratch so I dont scare ya."
Problem: I am suffering from anorexia.
Solution: Fucking eat something! Problem solved.
Now, if you really want to give me a warning for sharing my opinion in the only way I know how: bluntly, without pretense; then by all means do so. I dont care.
Here's the problem with your solution, Nikki. While eating something would solve the physical symptoms of AN, it does not solve the mental problems that are associated with it. If it were really as simple as just eating something, why would we have this problem in the first place?
AN is characterized by being a mental issue, not just physical. As others before me have explained, AN stems from an unhealthy body image/low self-esteem that eventually results in your brain being wired to consistently hold that image without treatment. A person with OCD will often scrub their hands until their fingers bleed. The truth is their hands are clean, but in their mind they are not. It's the same with AN. They are so far pushed into their unhealthy body-image that they literally fear eating food. Having them eat food again won't correct their misconceived notions of a good body-image because they have been so far pressed into their mindset that they become wired into that mentality and it takes time and treatment to correct it.
It's not just a simple choice on whether or not you'll eat. If it were the case, folks with schizophrenia just need to stop listening to their delusions. The issues of AN rests in their mind and their perceptions of the world.
If you wish to be critical of AN, be critical of what causes it. Society has embraced the thin-figure as the epitome of beauty and it becomes instilled in select peoples' minds that they must become thin. If you want to take a post-modernist approach to the problem, you'd see that AN comes from social constructions being manifested in a "physical" space.
I understand your criticism. It doesn't make sense, their self-image is false, and it should be solved by them sucking it up and eating. But the sad truth is that it's not that simple, and it's our fault as a society for that. We created the false self-image.
I know you want people to take personal responsibility for their problems, and I agree with this overall sentiment. But we have created this disease in society, and this is more than just a matter of free-will. So if you really want us to take personal responsibility, we should be angry at ourselves for making the problem and not take it out on people who have fallen victim to it. :smile:
AN is characterized by being a mental issue, not just physical. As others before me have explained, AN stems from an unhealthy body image/low self-esteem that eventually results in your brain being wired to consistently hold that image without treatment. A person with OCD will often scrub their hands until their fingers bleed. The truth is their hands are clean, but in their mind they are not. It's the same with AN. They are so far pushed into their unhealthy body-image that they literally fear eating food. Having them eat food again won't correct their misconceived notions of a good body-image because they have been so far pressed into their mindset that they become wired into that mentality and it takes time and treatment to correct it.
It's not just a simple choice on whether or not you'll eat. If it were the case, folks with schizophrenia just need to stop listening to their delusions. The issues of AN rests in their mind and their perceptions of the world.
If you wish to be critical of AN, be critical of what causes it. Society has embraced the thin-figure as the epitome of beauty and it becomes instilled in select peoples' minds that they must become thin. If you want to take a post-modernist approach to the problem, you'd see that AN comes from social constructions being manifested in a "physical" space.
I understand your criticism. It doesn't make sense, their self-image is false, and it should be solved by them sucking it up and eating. But the sad truth is that it's not that simple, and it's our fault as a society for that. We created the false self-image.
I know you want people to take personal responsibility for their problems, and I agree with this overall sentiment. But we have created this disease in society, and this is more than just a matter of free-will. So if you really want us to take personal responsibility, we should be angry at ourselves for making the problem and not take it out on people who have fallen victim to it. :smile:
I don't care how you're sharing your opinion, I care that your opinion is founded on a fantasy definition of anorexia. I like how you turn this into a soapbox for you to express how you are an Unconventional Thinker but none of that matters.
some things are a matter of personal responsibility, yeah, and up until a certain point you're just being stupid with your eating habits, but there's a point where it stops just being irresponsibility and starts being an issue of mental health.
short version:
1) get over yourself. I don't give a shit about political correctness and your blunt manner (you're not actually esp. blunt sorry
) because none of that matters at all no matter how hard you try to make it fit the discussion
2) good job taking a diagnosed mental disorder and condensing it to "people are attention whores and the psychiatrists want to protect them." you should try that with a meth addict: just keep him from doing any meth for a day or two and he'll be absolutely fine afterwards
3) pffffahahaha vadon you think nikki's a girl???
some things are a matter of personal responsibility, yeah, and up until a certain point you're just being stupid with your eating habits, but there's a point where it stops just being irresponsibility and starts being an issue of mental health.
short version:
1) get over yourself. I don't give a shit about political correctness and your blunt manner (you're not actually esp. blunt sorry
) because none of that matters at all no matter how hard you try to make it fit the discussion2) good job taking a diagnosed mental disorder and condensing it to "people are attention whores and the psychiatrists want to protect them." you should try that with a meth addict: just keep him from doing any meth for a day or two and he'll be absolutely fine afterwards
3) pffffahahaha vadon you think nikki's a girl???
@everyberries: Um...I'm not trying to convince you of what a cool, unconventional sort of person I am okay? Honestly, I DON'T CARE what you think of me, I've learned long ago what sort of behavior to expect from most of the mods/admins of this forum. You should take a lesson from Vadon on how to have a civil disagreement.
I dont have anorexia so I dont know what its like being inside their head. I do know however, that it can be easy to let a concern or interest become an obsession. I like videogames, I'd really like to just shut myself away from the world for a month or two and do nothing else. But I choose not to let my hobby become an unhealthy obsession. With anorexia, there is a moment of choice, where one moment she is normal and the next she is starving herself. I dont believe she was hard-wired at birth to do so. I don't believe she contracted the anorexia virus. She made a choice.
I dont have anorexia so I dont know what its like being inside their head. I do know however, that it can be easy to let a concern or interest become an obsession. I like videogames, I'd really like to just shut myself away from the world for a month or two and do nothing else. But I choose not to let my hobby become an unhealthy obsession. With anorexia, there is a moment of choice, where one moment she is normal and the next she is starving herself. I dont believe she was hard-wired at birth to do so. I don't believe she contracted the anorexia virus. She made a choice.
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nikki":1w4qf3md said:
You're right that you're not born with AN or that it's not a virus, but that doesn't mean it's not a very real disorder that can be created over time. You're also right, to an extent, that it's a choice at first to listen to the undue influences. But there is a fairly major difference between an obsession with something like video games and AN.
There is an external pressure that creates AN. With video games you'd be choosing to indulge your obsession for reasons that are internal to you. With AN, it comes from others telling you that you need to be thin. People and society aren't telling you that it's a good thing to play lots of video games, but people will pressure you to be really thin depending on what your career is. Now, I grant there should be some personal responsibility taken by folks in the fashion industry who get AN. They chose a lifestyle that will pressure them consistently to be thin.
But the truth is that AN is a disorder. Once you've slipped into it, you can't simply solve it by choosing not to be thin anymore. Your brain won't let you. It takes time and therapy to shift your perception back to desiring a healthy lifestyle. So while I think we ought not coddle those who have fallen victim to their own choices, I also recognize that they need help and often times they won't seek it.
Like I was suggesting earlier, I think that we do bear some responsibility in having created this disorder. It has been created by our society idolizing losing weight beyond reason. It's true that a person with AN made a choice. But we also have to recognize that we pressured them into making it. I find it despicable that some in society will scoff at a person with AN, then go back to talking about how great an overly thin body works. They are instrumental in the creation of the problem, yet they ignore their involvement.
You don't have the same pressures with video games. So if someone falls victim to an obsession with video games, I share your lack of sympathy towards them. It was their own stupid decisions that brought them there. But with AN, it was not society's fault that they fell under their delusions, but we certainly helped. As such I think we should help where we can to fix the problem.
Hey, here is a thought... I have never really come across anything like this, nor have I actually read ALL of the previous posts to see if it was already mentioned... but as far as I know/have heard... Anorexia is mainly/only a problem for girls...
Is this true? I would imagine it wouldnt be... but do some guys actually have this problem as well? Like I said earlier, I have never heard of a guy with this problem, but then again I am not the most up-to-date person when it comes to this subject so...
Can anyone help me out here?
Is this true? I would imagine it wouldnt be... but do some guys actually have this problem as well? Like I said earlier, I have never heard of a guy with this problem, but then again I am not the most up-to-date person when it comes to this subject so...
Can anyone help me out here?
Kraft":3sw4r65v said:
I suffered anorexia for the first half of my life. I was afraid of gaining weight and I had sticks for arms, I'd never eat anything. It's not a case of "hey, eat more", as that would be like getting someone to eat dog shit. A bad analogy, I know, but that's how I'd describe it best.
I assume it was anorexia as I remember that word being thrown around and I've heard parents and such describe me as being. You're talking between age 5 and 9 here though so... long time ago.