Force-feeding anorexics

[DeM0nFiRe]

Ok, by eating a lot of fast food, I meant over eating. I thought that would be clear.


Also, Arbiter, how the hell can you say I've lost the argument. Pretty much you are misunderstanding what I say, then when I explain it you say "Oh, well you should have said that." For this to even be an argument at all, you would have to actually be arguing something as opposed to just misreading what I am writing.

 

[Guest]

;D

 

[Rin]

I agree with Venetia.

If the person is legally independent then they can make their own personal medical decisions. I'm an adult if I get into a car crash, and my arm is broken, I don't have to stay in the hopsital if I don't want to. I can check myself out. The doctors, the nurses they can advise me that it would be a bad idea to walk out with a broken, untreated arm, but in the end it's my decision (and I wonder with insurance costs, how many people do make this decision). So if someone is in some medical facility, I do not believe it is ethical to force any medical treatment on a patient.

Now, I think that when it comes to bystanders like family and friends that they have an obligation to try to help their friend/family out. People do stage interventions and try to push their friend in the right direction. However in the end, no matter how much they want their loved one to change, if their loved one doesn't want to change they won't.

There was a show on one of the Discovery Channels a while back; I'm not sure of the title but it was something along the lines of "I Eat 30,000 Calories A Day". One of the most horrific shows I've ever watched in my life. It followed several people who have an addiction to eating (I don't know if it's a medical term, but I'm not sure how one can eat that much if there isn't some sort of mental defect). Some people seem to have some success once they accepted medical treatments. Others went through with it but refused to change.

There was one person in particularly who made my jaw drop. He was so obese he could not get out of bed without massive effort. So he pretty much lived in his bed. He could not shower himself. Could not go to the bathroom. The documentary continued to show his family cooking massive amounts of food so he could get his daily fix. Eventually the question came up to the mother of this man: Why are you feeding him so much food when you know it's killing him?

The mom shook her head and you could tell it's a question she probably asks herself a lot, but she's already resigned herself to the fact that. If no one is there to feed him, he'd get a phone and order out food. She's come to the compromise that cooking ginormous amounts of food would be healthier than overprocessed fast food.

It's really hard to be in that situation, but being an adult comes with the responsibility and the autonomy. Nothing can really change that. Even in cases were someone is physically unable to make a medical decision (e.g. being in a coma), if they wrote a living will, then they still have the final decision.

 

[bashful crobat]

Agreeing with that means you've missed the point; these people are not able to make the decision themselves, much like people who eat 30,000 calories a day. Deciding not to stay in hospital because you cannot afford it is not the same; you would still want to get your bones repositioned and set, otherwise your arm would become useless.

 

[Rin]

It doesn't matter what the reasoning is, the fact remains that if you are legally independent, then you call the shots. I believe it is unethical to force any sort of treatment on someone. If I fall into a coma and I wrote a living will that says cut me off life support, that means that my decision supersedes that of the nurses, the doctors, my family, various authority figures.

EDIT: I did some research and at least in America, the patient calls the shots. It doesn't matter if the person has a mental issue. If they are able to express their desire not to go through something, then the hospital can't force it on them. I'm pretty sure that doctors do their best to inform patients of their options and the consequences of the patient's choice. Maybe they could expand it to immediate family, but still I would not feel comfortable with outsiders forcing treatment on patients. I feel that it can be abused very easily.

 

[Guest]

;D

 

[nikki]

Hmmph. Everything is an illness these days, even when its not. If people want to starve themselves to death, thats their choice.

 

[bashful crobat]

nikki it's established that it is an illness, and not a choice

maybe read the thread and go think in a corner - come back when you learn how to do symposium

 

[nikki]

nikki it's established that it is an illness, and not a choice

maybe read the thread and go think in a corner - come back when you learn how to do symposium

So in order for me to "do symposium" properly, I have to agree with you? No, I dont think anorexia is an illness, sorry. Cancer is an illness, anorexia is something people intentionally do to themselves. I dont refute that these people obviously have something wrong with them, a twisted perception of reality, low self esteem and poor judgement. But thats not a disease.

I think many of these girls have empty lives, its all about looking pretty and having a cute boyfriend. So they decide to make themselves more intresting they will create some drama. Its not just the anorexic chicks who do this. Some girls will capitalize on any sort of tragedy to make their own little soap opera where its all about them. I blame the media.

 

[Luminier]

hi i can say that cancer isnt an illness but that doesn't make it so. the fact is that it is a fact that anorexia is an illness. and since this is a fact the fact that you are disagreeing with it does not mean that it's a difference of opinion it just means you're wrong

please try actually having knowledge on the subject at-hand before posting. thanks

 

[mawk]

I think many of these girls have empty lives, its all about looking pretty and having a cute boyfriend. So they decide to make themselves more intresting they will create some drama. Its not just the anorexic chicks who do this. Some girls will capitalize on any sort of tragedy to make their own little soap opera where its all about them. I blame the media.

you're confusing *that* kind of person with people who are legitimately anorexic. legit cases aren't a matter of "well hmm I could use some attention all up in here better become really skinny." legit anorexics consistently see their bodies as being overweight or ugly regardless of the reality of things and are actually afraid to gain weight. you don't starve yourself so badly that you stop menstruating unless there is something legitimately wrong with your mental health.

I blame the media.

you would.

 

[nikki]

please try actually having knowledge on the subject at-hand before posting. thanks

No need to be an arrogant jerk. No, anorexia is not one of my favorite subjects so I dont sit around researching it for hours. I'll wager that you dont either. No, you most likely came to your steadfast opinion after reading a couple articles by some "specialist" on the matter. The mentality that "nobody is responsible for their actions, its a disease" is rather popular these days and makes those specialists a lot of money. Yes, I believe there are true mental illnesses, Im no scientogist. But branding every single dangerous and self destructive habit as a disease is just stupid. I smoke cigarettes, even though I know they are bad for me. Do I have a disease? Judging from the criteria set by those who say alchoholism is a disease, yes I do, never mind the fact that I have to actively make a choice to smoke.

 

[bashful crobat]

Nobody said that no-one is responsible? The causes vary from case to case, but the blame is rarely entirely external.

Any way you go about trying to say it's not a disease is wrong, plain and simple. A quick definition of disease would be "an impairment of health or a condition of abnormal functioning", and anorexia just happens to be both of those.

As for your smoking example, quite a few people would say it is, yes. The initial choice to smoke may be yours (though in a lot of smokers, the choice to begin is brought on by other people, so often it's not entirely yours), but once the addiction has set in, it isn't. After even a few months of smoking, the addiction is so strong that many smokers can't stop, and once you're so addicted to something, it's not really your choice to continue. I only know one smoker who stopped; and they only lasted a year before they started again. Smoking seriously damages your body, and such a strong addiction to nicotine definetly classifies as "amnormal functioning".

You go well out of your way to show that you're "no scientogist"

 

[Twirly]

Im no scientogist.

If you enter The Symopsium, at least have proper spelling... And you don't say scientogist when you talk about a scientist,
we're not discussing about scientology :specs:

please try actually having knowledge on the subject at-hand before posting. thanks

No need to be an arrogant jerk.

I don't want to be backseat modding, but pay attention to member badges :|

"nobody is responsible for their actions, its a disease" is rather popular these days and makes those specialists a lot of money.

That is one of the weakest arguments I have ever seen in this sub-forum.

 

[nikki]

Its still my choice to pick up the cigarette and start smoking. I dont HAVE to give in to my addiction. Cancer, aids patients...they dont have the luxury of choosing not to be sick anymore.

 

[bashful crobat]

Nor do anorexics.

 

[nikki]

Nor do anorexics.

They could, you know...eat. All better!

We are not talking about someone who has some sort of gastro-intestinal thing which makes them incapable of digesting food. We're talking about people who intentionally starve themselves.

 

[Guest]

;D

 

[bashful crobat]

"We're talking about people who intentionally starve themselves."

Well done, you missed the point.

Go back and read the rest of the thread before you continue posting. Really, I mean it.

 

[nikki]

Yes, yes they CAN just eat and be all better. They didnt trip into some radioactive goo which mutated them into a person without a stomach! They CHOOSE not to eat.