FF7

[Rain]

Notice other FF games on the playstation were so much better graphically? Its cause square didnt bother for FFVII.

Ever think it might have something to do with the fact the FFVII was the first game on the playstation 1? Obviously it has to do with how they didn't bother to try with that game, and not to do with the limited technology of the time. By your logic they seem to be putting more and more effort into FF's with FF1 being shit out onto a sheet of corrugated cardboard and then shoved into a game case.

 

[GhastlyMasquerade]

Top rated rpgs? No, but surely overrated by "whatever comes from japan fan boys" that never played other games.
Final Fantasy VII was an ok game, but the cinematics were extremely long, which in my opinion simply killed the game play, plus, the mere idea of stay leveling up like crazy for days isn't really pleasant to me.
The system was ok, could been better, Music was simple but effective, although annoying in many places.
Plot was the typical "A wanna rule the world, so obviously B must stop A".
And so many flaws that "had" to be explained in a video and other games... Sad...
Final Fantasy VII in overall got a simple game play, and it fails to be considered a game... seems to me it was mostly an interactive movie.

One of the Top rpgs in my opinion would be Planescape Torment, but isn't Japanese :D

 

[Reygekan]

One of the most overrated games ever =/

Materia System was good, that's true, however any character could be anybody and as thus there wasn't much variation except in their Limit Breaks, which made an elitist order. Cait Sith could never be on-par with Cloud ever because Cait Sith had slots and dice and Cloud had Omnislash.

Graphically it's a bad game, although I'm sure we all know that. Going to have to say I don't like the audio too much either. The plot was good, but definately not great. The characters were also kind of dull and stuck to stereotypes. We have lone wolf Cloud, tomboy girl Tifa, black man with a gun Barret, helpless flower girl Aeris, Double Agent Cait Sith, childlike experiment Red XIII, jetpilot Cid, dark vampire man Vincent, and greedy ninja girl whatsherface. Because we've never seen lone wolves, tomboys, black men with guns, helpless flower girls, double agents, childlike experiments, jet pilots, vampires, or greedy ninjas before.

Otherwise it was a decent game. Doesn't hold a candle to any of the Chrono games however.

 

[mawk]

Again, keep in mind that for that era of the PS1, those graphics were incredible. The pre-rendered backgrounds may look a little cheap, but stylistically they were a good idea as they looked better than full 3D mapping would have allowed, and freed up some space to further improve the battlers and the like.

The in-battle graphics are fairly close to the pinnacle of what was achieved in the PS1 FF games. I can see no real improvement (or room for improvement, for that matter) between number seven and number nine, although it's true that number nine did make its characters that detailed in and out of battle. But give Square a break here, FFVII was their first foray into the third dimension. Up to that point, all but the most recent Final Fantasies had small sprites for the overworld and slightly more detailed ones in battle. Since they were testing out the boundaries of the technology at this point, I assume they chose to stick to the undetailed overworld character models and focussed instead on the advanced battle models.

As for your second point, I revive one of my earlier points: You gotta ask yourself, were most of those cliches before Final Fantasy VII? Spiky-haired heroes and bishies were well-established standbys in anime by this point, but I think FFVII is one of their earliest forays into video games.

Besides, even if these cliches were considered such before FFVII defined them, a few of your descriptions strain my belief a little.

For starters, the "dark vampire man" can transform into hideous uncontrollable monsters. I think that makes up for any infringements he might have made with his pimpin' cape and gauntlets.

Jet pilots are cliche, too? What? I guess if Cid were a train conductor, he'd be more original, right?

And Cait Sith... Come ON, man! He's an animated doll that happens to betray you! Betrayal itself isn't a cliche, it's a literary tool! I think the whole doll thing makes up for everything else, really.

The way I see it, for the most part the very reason we see these characters as cliche is because after FFVII's rousing success, people got sick of every twelve-year-old writer wannabe copypasting the plot or characters or both into their own personal fantasies. We can't look back on then using the strictest standards of now, because I'm pretty sure the game changed things around a lot in its heyday. It's like going back to the days of Shakespeare and telling him that Hamlet's premise is overdone by today's standards... Okay, it's not so strong as that, but you see my point. XD

And come on, tell me you didn't have fun playing it for the first time. :\

 

[Celesinator]

I.. actually didn't. The beginning bored me. Really, everything got better when Cloud became retarded. Then after Cloud joined back.. I lost interest. I beat the game.

Even before I ever played the game, I listened to Owa. I still had no interest. I actually was supprised when I heard it in the game. I was like "OMG WOW." Of course, I'm still not interested in OWA. It's ok, I suppose, but really low on my list. (AC version is better IMO. Crisis Core'
s sucks... I don't care if that WAS my opinion.)

 

[Reygekan]

Gearpunk, yes it is true that their graphics were good for their time (I won't go as far as to say incredible as FFXIII and FFIX quickly and easily sent the graphics in FFVII to the pits of hell) however they were far from the best graphics of their time. I found games such as RE to have better graphics (unless I'm thinking of REII) and that game was released over a year before FFVII.

I'm fairly sure black men with guns that cussed a lot were quite cliche thank you. =/

Not quite sure how cliche they ALL may or may not have been at the time however I do know that curious tube-encased creatures, black men with guns that liked to cuss a lot, and dark vampire people were cliche at the time. Cid and that ninja girl could also be considered cliche at the time but then again they don't have enough to them to really decide whether or not they fall into a cliche to start. Spiky haired heroes with big swords was cliche thanks to something we call anime.

Although I will give you the point that Cait Sith, Cid, and Vincent all had something un-cliche about them and thus made them unique and non-cliche.

The first time I played it I was ten years old and broke the clock keeping track of your time <.<

However, I'm saying that looking back it wasn't all that great. You have to agree that the plot was cliche, and the characters were either underdeveloped (ninja girl, Vincent, and Cid) cliche (Barret) or decent characters with not much character developement anyway (All the rest). Tifa would have been okay if she had not given hentai artists a field day upon her arrival on the PSX. You can't say that it was due to the age of the PSX or the game, seeing how the previous FF's had brilliant characters, even Chrono Trigger had characters that blew the FFVII ones out of the water. Those games were on the SNES =/

The materia system also meant anyone could do anything so characters usefulness were defined by their limit breaks. RXIII was freaking awesome but his limit break wouldn't hold a candle to Cloud's. Actually, none of theirs could =/ Cait Sith couldn't hold a candle to RXIII though, and thus characters became tiered on their limit breaks. Hardly a balanced game. Not to mention the last boss sucked.

The gameplay was saved by nothing but it's materia system, but the game was so easy that I got through it, at ten years old, without knowing how to equip until halfway through disk two. Furthermore, summons and materia became useless after a point as their damages would never be as high as your attacks ever. With the exception of Knights of the Round Table which was like Omnislash for kids. Balancing issues? Definately.

Great game? Yes, but by no means worth the hype it was given. I'll admit to not having gotten far in FFVIII however I'm sure that one is definately better than VII, and I know for sure that IX blew it out of the water in terms of balancing, gameplay, graphics, characters, and story.

 

[Ellie]

Cliche is a massively overused word. Think of it this way - what's your favourite food? Lets say it's bagels. You have bagels all the time because you like them. But wait, bagels are so cliche (because you eat them so much). Mustn't eat any more of them then, back to waffles for me thank you very much.

I still have the PSX magazine from when FFVII was first announced, with the first glimpses and everything, and they rate the graphics 8 or 9 out of 10 in there. All talk of new polygon technology, and how it's the first 3d FF game and everything.

Oh, and, people have compared it to other games graphically... but think how much the other games sucked content-wise. The first time I played FFVII, I was on 40hrs on the clck (not counting the hours of dying and everything). To me, that is a very long game...

 

[mawk]

What about the plot is cliche, exactly? Most plots have one or two overused elements to them. Personally, I believe that at its core, number seven's story is fresh enough. An evil power company burning souls to make electricity. An insane goddess from space. The crazed demigod enhanced with her DNA who directs a meteor into the earth to impress his consciousness on the planet.

Man, major deja vu.

I'll agree with you on the points regarding balance; I have no qualms about people who raise facts about game mechanics. I don't have any authority there, anyway; I was pretty young when I played it, and I ran from most of the monsters, only to die over and over from random encounters in Disc 3.

 

[greenninja89]

Well, i just have this to say: it's hard to avoid cliches. Even when you manage to make something that doesn't qualify for "cliche" status, you're just making a new one. I say, FF7 was genius because it changed the way people looked at rpgs. for the better or the worst, it still changed the paradigm of the average gamer.

 

[Reygekan]

The plot is fine for it's details, but it does suffer from "hero gets revenge on psycopathic alien bad guy who wants to destroy the world because he's an alien like that" syndrome when you get to it's bare bones minimum. Actually, I think cliche was probably a bad word to use here. Not done very well is a better one. We all know about some of the plot holes that plague the game, however some plot elements just aren't pulled off very well and the plot seems very persistant to it's "kill evil alien" nature. Everything else seems rather pointless and doesn't add much except attempts at character developement which really doesn't actually work seeing how the characters are never really properly developed anyway. I disagree with you when you say that at it's core it's fresh enough- at it's core it's overused, it's the details that make it fresh.

There isn't anything wrong with using cliches at all, only when using them in the same way as everything else. Barret was not used differently which is why he's a character I simply can't stand. Cid... did he really do much, if anything, throughout the entire game? Really, I only remember him doing stuff in that part with the shuttle, and then that was it. I can't stand him either <.<

 

[nazra7]

ehem. ff7 had the most complex story of all the ffs, (side from 6 with kefka) alot of it didn't make sense at times. I think this guy just wants to express his oppinions about ff7 becuase "HE" "THINKS" it was a weak game.

Well many people can and will disagree. The critics labeld the game "Possibly the greatest game ever made" which alot of people thinks so, and I know alot of people who "HATES" ff7 graphics but loves the story, and theme. Why do you think square soft keeps making remakes of this game? why do you think they made a entire cg movie of it? well I think square enix wouldn't agree with what you've said either. you read the back of the box it says "the games story and graphics (at the time) towers above all other rpgs this year!" You said that all ff games above 6 where weak? Are you suggesting that ff 1-6 are better then 7-12??? I could disagree with that really.

I didn't appreciate ff7s graphics back then either. But I loved the game itself. the gameplay and story. I thought back then that sephiroth and cloud were so cool! And the part about the weapons creatures created by the earth just completley overwhelmed me with excitement. Take a second thought about games back then. in 1997 there where already 3d rpgs out before ff7, and way before. If you can remember corectly there where even some 3d games on sega genesis, and super nintendo. you make it sound like everyone liked the game just becuase it was the "first" rpg created in 3d. well you're wrong.

@cam ff7 wasnt the first game made on playstation.

 

[DragonMancorada]

Let's make one thing clear: I don't give a flying shit about graphics!
We clear? Good.

So, Sephiroth is a SOLDIER who's been gene-manipulated by the injection of an alien calamity's cells.
He is hell bent on reviving this alien that he calls "Mother", and he's also hell bent on damaging the planet severely enough for it to gather enough Mako at a single place, so that he may fuse with it and become a god.
Not because he wants to rule the World; he wants to drain the Planet of all it's lifeforce, so that it may crumble, and disappear.
He will later go to other Planets and destroy them one by one alongside Jenova. (His plans change though, he decides to travel the Universe with the planet as his vessel."

Now, Cloud is also injected with Jenova cells, and he's the only "successful Sephiroth clone".
He's drawn to Sephiroth... Sephiroth can toy with his mind. (Which is traumatised by past events)
He doesn't know who he is... he thinks he's Zack. He later winds up in a wheelchair, unable to respond to anything.
The events of Nibelheim are great. Excellent story if you ask me! Villian is killed, only to be revived again.


Seriously, all of you. Play through the game, analyze it, and you will see that it is original. Whatever you fanboys might say, I don't care.

I love all FF's, except for the second, and that's just because of the stupid "Non-level-up" and Inventory-systems it uses.

 

[nazra7]

wow you know more about the story then me it's been awhile since I played so I don't remember much. But I do remember it was a ground breaking story.

 

[Aepriz]

Mhhhh , FF7 ....
Sooo much money went in the project .. But for soo much money we get such graphics ? Ö
I don't consider FF7 to be a bad game , but it get easely outclasses by almost all other FF's like  4 , 6 , 9 , X .

Also to know the whole story you have to see the movie and play ff:DoC
(For questions like : Who's sephiroth's mom  ? and who's vincents dad ? and what's chaos ...)

FF7 isn't perfect , Is a moderate game which was made good by a lot of propaganda .

(Note : Sephiroth (FF7) and Weiss possesed by hojo (FF7: DoC) both have the same idea of ending the world ... sheesh )

 

[greenninja89]

final fantasy 7 is an example of something once said by someone wise...

 

[DragonMancorada]

That's because they're both trying to drain all of the Planet's lifeforce.
Only Weiss isn't strong enough, unlike Sephiroth.

Come on, people. Replay the game, and analyze it as you do. Each and everytime I replay it, I go: "Wow... now why the hell did I stop playing the last time?"

It's a much, much bigger story than any other FF. Try naming another one, I dare you. :P (FFVIII is close, though.)

 

[Aepriz]

oHH chill out i'm not saying anything bad about FF 7  ..
Only twice the same bad guy idea ..

Note : It isn't Weiss who is trying to end the world . Its hojo ..
Only after Hojo is defeated by Weiss and his brother nero , weiss Awakans Omega (= The end (.. or atleast thats how proffesor Lucrecia Cresent (sephiroths mom)
calls Omega .

 

[Crystalgate]

Come on, people. Replay the game, and analyze it as you do. Each and everytime I replay it, I go: "Wow... now why the hell did I stop playing the last time?"

It's a much, much bigger story than any other FF. Try naming another one, I dare you.  (FFVIII is close, though.)

Personally, I tend to analyse elements I like, but I seldom bother with elements I don't like. If I find diamonds and dig, I'll probably find more diamonds, but if I find nothing but dirt, chance is I'll just keep finding dirt if I dig. Granted, in this case it's entirely subjective what constitutes as dirt and what constitutes as diamonds, but the point still stands.

Let's look at an example, one from FF VIII however because I have an easier time finding a good example there. As you know, there's a villain in FF VIII called Ultimecia. I found her bland and uninteresting. One day I read an analysis of her on a message board.

Spoiler

Basically, Ultimecia got bitter because she was hated since she was a sorceress. This caused her to attempt the whole time compression deal. The irony is that it was the time compression attempt that caused people to hate sorceresses.

Guess what, after reading all this, nothing changed and I still found Ultimecia bland and uninteresting.

Now this doesn't mean that Ultimecia neccessarily is a bad villain, what is good and bad is subjective, but if I don't find something interesting then I simple don't find it interesting. How well-written it is or how many layers of complexity there is doesn't matter.

 

[Dopples]

Seriously, all of you. Play through the game, analyze it, and you will see that it is original. Whatever you fanboys might say, I don't care.

Get rid of the boring battle system, boring characters, and overall boring story, and I'll try to play past the first disc.


That said, the idea of an alien villain who wants to destroy the world wasn't originally concieved by FFVII. Dhaos anyone?

 

[DragonMancorada]

You're forgetting about the Cetra. Sephiroth himself isn't the alien, and Jenova is already dead as the game begins.
I understand that not everybody likes FFVII; I'm not a dictator. :P (But I still feel that people should accept that the game is good, whether or not they like it. I hope you all understand my point.)

Weiss is just trying to rule the world, but Hojo wants to destroy it. (I know that, but I just say Weiss instead of Hojo, it's easier.)

And come on, you gotta admit Barrett is one of the most refreshing RPG characters you've seen.
Finally a black person with a main part in an RPG (Especially FF). Also, you can't call him a cliche angry black man... he is angry for his own reasons. The part where his friend commits suicide is one of the most gripping aspects of the game for me, and I feel with Barrett.

This all said, I still respect you people for your opinions. I'm sorry if I have acted in an insulting manner. (Especially AngelsCry. ;P)

Edit1
I would just like to say that I think Sephiroth is the best villian ever. Such personality, combined with the madness and skill. I get a chill down my spine every time I see Sephiroth stabbing Tseng through, with the symphonical eerie-ness of "Those Chosen by the Planet" playing in the BG.