FF7

[sixtyandaquarter]

WCC (still liked calling you monkey)
See there? Good points.

I've played the game all the way threw twice and nothing really struck me. Perhaps it's all relative to what we've picked up. I admit that I was a fan of the game, and did play it multiple times but upon losing my memory cards or deleting it for newer games, and blah blah blah - honestly except for maybe the first and second time I've played threw I did skip scenes.
Maybe I do miss things, but he still falls short.

Spoiler

I never meant to imply he finishes the game overcome with guilt, but he does have a guilt issue threw part of the game, mostly stemming from (unless I'm wrong here, it has been a while) Aerith and what happened in the flashback at Nibelheim.
One that never gets resolved - and if it wasn't for Advent Children I'd be bitching more about that, I just think it's kind of crappy that they after so much set up, they never touched it again except for in the general feel.

But the character still doesn't grow or learn.
His motives change, his personality is fleshed out, his only real major growth is that he pretty much uses his anger and confusion as a catalyst for revenge. At least that's how I see it, revenge against Sephiroth, saving the planet seems again a lie to front - but that could just be me.

The character Cloud has all this great and possibly epic substance that never seemed to seep, to me his only growths happened in such sudden jumps with no real evolution - and seemed so temporary or under hashed it might as well have been another lie.

To say the character doesn't grow was a bit misleading, and a bit wrong.
He has growth. It's just stunted.
That's my piece, it's not as well said as yours, but hey I'm not a nice talker heh.

 

[waby]

everyone just shut up final fantasy 7 is a great game and thats final

 

[DJ Jack]

Waby, I suggest you stop posting ludicrous posts right now. They're not adding to the conversation, and they're just plain dumb. So cut it out now, or you'll get a temp ban.

 

[Wyvern]

The problem with FF7 comes from how you get from one step to another. Why was Cloud, the reluctant hero, so willing to join AVALANCHE suddenly? How was a small group of terrorists able to thwart an Empire that nobody else could stop? Why was the Villain, who was once controlled by the Empire, suddenly able to succeed it and go on his own? Why was the Hero able to defeat the Villain if he was so powerful and such a huge threat?.

Well now you cannot speak these words, because ff7 crisis core explains it all.
You should know what i'm talking about...:p

 

[Luminier]

Well now you cannot speak these words, because ff7 crisis core explains it all.
You should know what i'm talking about...:p

Y'see, some prequel, sequel, or whatever the hell Crisis core is, shouldn't have to explain plot holes, stupid plot points, or any other fallacies.

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

You CAN NOT talk about ONE THING and explain how it doesn't have faults by including ANOTHER THING NOT INCLUDED WITH THE FIRST.

If the Genie in Aladdin isn't funny, you can't say "yes he is because he was in (insert other medium here)". It doesn't work, it doesn't fix the problem, it's of no consequence.

Talk about FF7 frigging universe, yes - talk about FF7 the game, not FF7 + everything else, no.

If I talk about problems in Suikoden I, can Suikoden II be brought in as to why those problems are null and void? No. Someone can bring them up and say "hey, at least they finally did something about it" yeah, but it doesn't void the problems in the original - and yes that's a valid example since II and I are chronological.

 

[Zankoku no Yami]

You CAN NOT talk about ONE THING and explain how it doesn't have faults by including ANOTHER THING NOT INCLUDED WITH THE FIRST.

If the Genie in Aladdin isn't funny, you can't say "yes he is because he was in (insert other medium here)". It doesn't work, it doesn't fix the problem, it's of no consequence.

Talk about FF7 frigging universe, yes - talk about FF7 the game, not FF7 + everything else, no.

If I talk about problems in Suikoden I, can Suikoden II be brought in as to why those problems are null and void? No. Someone can bring them up and say "hey, at least they finally did something about it" yeah, but it doesn't void the problems in the original - and yes that's a valid example since II and I are chronological.

I dissagree. When it comes to PLOT, that doesnt apply AT ALL. Because when a game is left open, um... how is that bad? Open plots and unexplained things give way to sequals and prequals. Without them, the sequals and prequals are well... just look at how bad America's sequals are. Thats what happens when you end it without the ability to add on or build upon.

Sorry, but, new games to the series that explain the 'plot problems' do fix it. Because this game was pretty much left open (as many stories are). In fact, i LOVE when games/books/shows/etc leave many things unanswered and the like; because it means if they do make a sequal, it has a chance of being a good one. FF7 proves that.

And besides that; um... the plot problems really werent problems since I actually knew all the questions to what people are asking before they even went about going indepth on them. Because if you actually pay attention to the game (despite the bad translation) it really does all add up and make sense.

And your Suikoden example is by far the worst. You refering to plot holes or the problems in game like battle system, etc? Because plot holes, again, are NEEDED for the continuation of a series.

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

No it really doesn't.
If the plot of an episode of Heroes is bad, do you excuse it because the episode after it was good? If the plot of a movie is bad do you excuse it because the sequel was better?
If I have one bad joke, is it a good joke because I have 20 other better ones?

 

[Luminier]

Zankoku, you sound like an idiot.

You can't, I repeat can't cover up your mistakes with sequels/prequels. Having sequels/prequels that fix plot holes in one game/movie/book, does NOT mean that said plot hole is magically gone from thw original media.

Geez. ':|

 

[mawk]

G-Man, all I've seen here is you chopping the game's building blocks into smaller building blocks, then complaining about them. Surely you have something better to do than re-re-reopening this can of worms. I, for one, am tired of people trying to sound dynamic and thoughtful by coming out of the blue with some controversial statement. You can't have been trying to accomplish anything other than making yourself look cool.

In my opinion, it all comes down to execution. You could say Banjo Kazooie was an awful game because its characters are shallow and its storyline ridiculous, but it's still one of my favorite platformers. The reason Final Fantasy VII made it big wasn't that everything about it was fresh and dynamic; Square just executed the game's premise incredibly well. You can yammer at its components all you want.

Also, a lot of these cliches the game supposedly follows weren't cliches when it came out. In fact, Final Fantasy probably made more cliches than it followed, due to its immense success. Every twelve-year-old who's just learned how to use internets knocks off a FFVII fanfic or two. I mean, before Cloud, how many heroes were there with spiky hair, not counting those that NEEDED spiky hair just so you could see it in 8-bit graphics? Chrono, and maybe a couple others. That's not quite a cliche just yet.

Besides, a lot of the story's really very dynamic. Although the term "ancients" seems really hackneyed, it's not every game you get an insane former soldier enhanced by space monster DNA trying to crash a meteor into the living Earth to be absorbed into the scar tissue it throws up and impress his consciousness on the planet.

 

[Wyvern]

Besides, a lot of the story's really very dynamic. Although the term "ancients" seems really hackneyed, it's not every game you get an insane former soldier enhanced by space monster DNA trying to crash a meteor into the living Earth to be absorbed into the scar tissue it throws up and impress his consciousness on the planet.

That's right.
And do not complain about Cloud's weak behaviour ingame. He acts 'naturally' if you really think that his best friend that cheered him up(Zack), and a woman whom he had feelings for(Aeris) both died. What would you do in his place?

 

[arcthemonkey]

I think what so-and-so was trying to say is that a lot of stories leave plot points unresolved until later episodes, or never at all, leaving the player/viewer/reader to fill in the gaps, and these can turn out really well.

 

[badmonur]

personally i never liked anything from the ff series. I always thought they were long winded stories with no real purpose and kind of generic at that. So i hated it...well thats from the 3m i spent playing it.

 

[mawk]

I think what so-and-so was trying to say is that a lot of stories leave plot points unresolved until later episodes, or never at all, leaving the player/viewer/reader to fill in the gaps, and these can turn out really well.

Of course, I doubt they originally intended for there to be so many sequels branching off from the main game. Up until Final Fantasy X-2, there weren't any direct sequels to games -- the only real relation between them up until that point was the sporadic presence of some variety of Cid.

You can't really say that a hole was an intentional literary device if the sequel that wrapped it up wasn't intended at the time the hole was formed. I think they set out to expand the VII world, and happened upon those holes as they went.

Then again, there's no way I could see inside the heads of those at Squenix. They could very well possess some great measure of foresight and business savvy. I just find it unlikely, is all.

 

[Faggotry]

yay trolling. Squares weaker games are FFX, FFXII and Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2

This isn't trolling, it has too be said, FFVII is a good game but it is one of the weaker.
and FFXII BAD? That, redefined final fantasy from the same boring battle system and more.
Your silly.

I really don't understand your reasoning, in my opinion the graphics for FF7 were shit, even for their time, they could have done a whole lot better and that was proven through other games at the time.

It was the story and gameplay of FF7 that brought so many people to love and respect it. It re-defined the RPG Genre. It's story is complex, involving and enthralling. Which unlike many RPGs before that wasn't full of cliches. Very few RPGs before Final Fantasy VII were actually very original in storyline. I'm not saying there were none, Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy VI, Breath of Fire to name a few were all brilliantly original stories.

However the majority of RPGs pre-5th Generation consoles were very cliched and unoriginal even in the Final Fantasy Series, and yes before anyone asks, I have played through EVERY Final Fantasy, as a matter of fact Final Fantasy IV is one of my favourites of all time.

Anyway, my point is, I very much disagree that it was the graphics that made Final Fantasy VII possibly the most loved game of all time internationally. If anything in my opinion the graphics were the only thing letting it down, it's story was brilliant, it's musical score was fantastic, the characters were all interesting and original and for the first time in a long time in RPGs there was no "I am your father's mother's brother's sister's aunt's goldfish's nephew!" styled cliches.

Final Fantasy VII redefined the RPG Genre and I seriously cannot see how someone can say it is the weakest of the series, especially if so many people fell in love with the game for their own reasons.

I'm Petros L. Ioannou, thank you and goodnight!

That wasn't epic enough to say thank you and goodnight.

Well to me it looked good for it's time frame, I was clouded by it, since everyone said the game was so good, but eventually you'll start looking and you're like....waiiiit small guy vs. Big empire?
Where have I seen this? Spiky haired hero? Hmm.
White haired antagonist. Okay you know what *cuts off playstation* I'm going outside.

Hmm good for its time frame?
http://www.warmech.net/special/awards/fmv-ff7.png[/img]
http://ttp://www.warmech.net/special/awards/fmv-ff8.png[/img]
http://ttp://www.warmech.net/special/awards/fmv-ff8.png[/img]
http://www.warmech.net/special/awards/fmv-ff9.png[/img]
Notice other FF games on the playstation were so much better Graphically? Its cause square didnt bother for FFVII.

Are you ever going to stop trolling?

Seriously, this topic was made to just to bad mouth a game that 90% of the people on this board like... that's trolling at it's most basic. I'm suprised this hasn't been closed yet :/

Its not Trolling, Its making a point. I bet half of the people who say FFVII is their favourite haven't even played it and will never admit that, they probably just watched advent children and read a wiki page on it. I mean The characters are what makes this game one of the least entertaining Final Fantasy games.  Cloud acts like a spoiled child, Aeris is simply useless, Cait Sith is a joke and Barret is the stereotypical angry black man, which can make Square seem almost racist.  Even some of the Shinra enemies also took away from the enjoyment of the game. Most Final Fantasy fans in the USA have started with this game, so they have a love for this game that blinds most of them from the truth.  Those fans believe that this game has the best story, characters and replay value of all the other games in the series.  Unfortunately, this has made Final Fantasy VII the most overrated Final Fantasy game. Final Fantasy VII is by no means a bad game, but it doesn't compare to other Final Fantasy titles.  The behavior and attitude of some of the main characters gets old fast and most of the required mini-games and events take away from the overall feel that is expected from a Final Fantasy title.  Another thing that really takes away from this game is the futuristic aspect of it, gamers that started with the series prior to Final Fantasy VII were used to a RPG that provided a medieval experience and this clearly did not deliver what was expected. A person i know called Warmech made those points and i completely agree. It just .. shows everything.

 

[CIPWM74]

FF1 was the only good one.

 

[syphonmax]

I think FF7 is too over rated to me the game sucked!

 

[Crystalgate]

Its not Trolling, Its making a point. I bet half of the people who say FFVII is their favourite haven't even played it and will never admit that, they probably just watched advent children and read a wiki page on it.

What? I noticed what you stated in the FF VIII topic. Do you seriously believe that people liking FF VII haven't actually played it while people disliking FF VIII in turn haven't played that game? Doesn't that view strike you as norrow minded?

 

[CIPWM74]

FFVII

 

[Wyvern]

Do you guys think that everybody is going to change his mind because of your replies and your thoughts that make 0 sense?
Final Fantasies are, by all means, top rated RPGs, that may lack somewhere, but there is one genre where they beat every game down... And of course this genre is Music!