Feminism

[Lyric]

Venetia, thanks for doing a bang up job of responding to twirly.

For the record, kids are expensive. The way I figure regarding child support, if you don't want to pay it, don't have kids. If you have a kid, expect to pay, period.

 

[Twirly]

That doesn't justify having to pay $55'000 like in Nas' case at all though.

 

[Lyric]

How much would you have him contribute toward the child that he created and does not care for on the regular other than monetarily? What is a more fair amount?

 

[Daxis]

How much would you have him contribute toward the child that he created and does not care for on the regular other than monetarily? What is a more fair amount?

$3,613.5 a month

 

[Twirly]

How much would you have him contribute toward the child that he created and does not care for on the regular other than monetarily? What is a more fair amount?

I don't want to reply but I have to.
I wonder how you know if he cares for his child other than monetarily? How do you know that? Just because he and Kelis divorced? Does divorcing automatically mean you don't care for your child anymore? Your opinion on this matter is really biased man, wise up.
And child support should be about how much your child needs, not about how much he can spend because the result will be some dirty piece of shit whore ripping you off and having a nice life while you work.

 

[Mundane]

You're tarring 50% of the population with the same brush.

Perhaps if you didn't consider all women to be "typical womanish", you wouldn't have such bad experiences?

I don't go around accusing women of being like this until I see the similar trend that I do  .

 

Whenever I have / had bad experiences with women, it's always due to me being  , where they're  . I don't go around and talk to women about what they do wrong and how all women are inferior to men etc., I just don't give two shits about their feelings getting hurt when I've had enough of something that they're doing which they don't seem to like ( plus the fact that I have had a first hand experience in women being cold hearted and not caring about someone else when the opportunity to take advantage of them arises ).

Other than that, I'm not grouping all women together ( it may seem like it ), I'm just saying " How am I supposed to think otherwise when all I see is similarity within the way females act? "

I took the liberty of highlighting some of your generalizations here. I should have highlighted the whole quote, but that's redundant... It's males like you that have 'women' saying the exact same thing about us. Except, however, I believe they use the word dick, douche, or asshole. It's all relative, and you sir have literally no standing in this world to make any assumption such as this. You say you're not grouping all women together, but you most certainly are. No person can logically say the things you are having only witnessed an infinitesimal portion of the population. I've watched this thread boil for the past couple of days and stayed away because I felt there was only bad shit that could go down by having it. I guess I was right. How you view women is based off such a small fraction of the gender, yet you feel as if it's enough to make such broad and over-generalized accusations. Have you lived in a cave your entire life? The last time I checked, most females were anything but vindictive to males. It is usually men who rape, murder, rob, and beat women. It's a disturbing fact.

Secondly, I didn't read over the entire thread, but has anyone besides Ven even bothered to talk about Feminism as a philosopy or belief - not a group of power hungry females? The basis of the movement lies in how the male role is dominant in EVERYTHING we do. Men make money, men own homes, and men sure as hell don't raise no kids - this is the sort of stuff they find problems with. No one, on most levels is equal to any other person. They aren't looking for complete equality, but the shedding of male dominance in the female way of life. In the deepest chasms of it's core philosophies they have really done a lot in opening the eyes of people. Now, I could go on about the male sex presence, and a whole bunch of crazy stuff - but that isn't important. What's important, is that you understand that your thoughts are incredibly illogical and borderline chauvinistic.

In all honesty, I think Ven should be awarded the win for this thread, and it should be locked. Most the things beyond what Ven has said are not only misinformed and illogical, but do nothing to stimulate a debate on feminism - just generalized disrespect for both genders.

 

[Venetia]

How much would you have him contribute toward the child that he created and does not care for on the regular other than monetarily? What is a more fair amount?

I don't want to reply but I have to.
I wonder how you know if he cares for his child other than monetarily? How do you know that? Just because he and Kelis divorced? Does divorcing automatically mean you don't care for your child anymore? Your opinion on this matter is really biased man, wise up.

typ child support amounts are also based on the level of custody you get

if you are denied custody or waive custody you will pay a larger sum

because you will presumably never be seeing it.

so

again i dont know the details here but yea from what it sounds like he probably waived custodial rights altogether ...

And child support should be about how much your child needs, not about how much he can spend because the result will be some dirty piece of shit whore ripping you off and having a nice life while you work.

i agree ... and it usually is about that much. like i've said, the ONE example you gave was a very extreme example. in the case of my friend who paid $1k/mo (it was less after the mom started making enough money) ... well, a kid is easily going to suck away $1k/mo. and it sometimes stops after the custodian remarries. (alimony stops altogether)

not sure why you're so bitter about it;
i mean my blood father never gave my mom even one red cent after they divorced and he even kidnapped me (as a baby) to get out of it (and then after i was returned i never saw him nor heard from him again).
if anything it's too easy to get out of paying child support. people who don't contribute towards their own kid's well-being are fucking dick assholes.

 

[Venetia]

@mundane: yeah that's kind of been the direction, but i'd rather provide some info and some perspective instead of blocking. i do agree that women in general can be aggravating sometimes--so can anyone different from you! you usu dont get the opportunity to talk w/ them about it though.

 

[Sauk]

You're tarring 50% of the population with the same brush.

Perhaps if you didn't consider all women to be "typical womanish", you wouldn't have such bad experiences?

I don't go around accusing women of being like this until I see the similar trend that I do  .

 

Whenever I have / had bad experiences with women, it's always due to me being  , where they're  . I don't go around and talk to women about what they do wrong and how all women are inferior to men etc., I just don't give two shits about their feelings getting hurt when I've had enough of something that they're doing which they don't seem to like ( plus the fact that I have had a first hand experience in women being cold hearted and not caring about someone else when the opportunity to take advantage of them arises ).

Other than that, I'm not grouping all women together ( it may seem like it ), I'm just saying " How am I supposed to think otherwise when all I see is similarity within the way females act? "

I took the liberty of highlighting some of your generalizations here. I should have highlighted the whole quote, but that's redundant... It's males like you that have 'women' saying the exact same thing about us. Except, however, I believe they use the word dick, douche, or asshole. It's all relative, and you sir have literally no standing in this world to make any assumption such as this. You say you're not grouping all women together, but you most certainly are. No person can logically say the things you are having only witnessed an infinitesimal portion of the population. I've watched this thread boil for the past couple of days and stayed away because I felt there was only bad shit that could go down by having it. I guess I was right. How you view women is based off such a small fraction of the gender, yet you feel as if it's enough to make such broad and over-generalized accusations. Have you lived in a cave your entire life? The last time I checked, most females were anything but vindictive to males. It is usually men who rape, murder, rob, and beat women. It's a disturbing fact.

Secondly, I didn't read over the entire thread, but has anyone besides Ven even bothered to talk about Feminism as a philosopy or belief - not a group of power hungry females? The basis of the movement lies in how the male role is dominant in EVERYTHING we do. Men make money, men own homes, and men sure as hell don't raise no kids - this is the sort of stuff they find problems with. No one, on most levels is equal to any other person. They aren't looking for complete equality, but the shedding of male dominance in the female way of life. In the deepest chasms of it's core philosophies they have really done a lot in opening the eyes of people. Now, I could go on about the male sex presence, and a whole bunch of crazy stuff - but that isn't important. What's important, is that you understand that your thoughts are incredibly illogical and borderline chauvinistic.

In all honesty, I think Ven should be awarded the win for this thread, and it should be locked. Most the things beyond what Ven has said are not only misinformed and illogical, but do nothing to stimulate a debate on feminism - just generalized disrespect for both genders.

Lol... leave a white knight to rush to the aid of poor defenseless women.

I've never made generalizations you dumb shit, I've clearly explained that I don't view all women like this, JUST THE MAJORITY THAT I KNOW. I've also explained that it's hard for me to think otherwise, since I find trends between a lot of women. My thoughts aren't borderline chauvinist, and that line about " The last time I checked, most females were anything but vindictive to males. It is usually men who rape, murder, rob, and beat women. It's a disturbing fact. " has been disputed since I gave links and citations to fucking facts about women being just as abusive as men, if not more since they've only researched reported incidences and not all the un-reported incidences. Once again with the feminism shit, I didn't necessarily mean fucking Feminism as a whole and that their main concern is superiority, I'm talking about every female that claims to be a feminist but also are a fucking princess and feel like they needs to be treated like queens despite their bitch attitude and personality.

Have you not opened your eyes to women? Some girl flirts with another guy and it's harmless, the boyfriend flirts with another girl and " he's an asshole ". A girl slaps a man in the face, pours a drink on him, etc. and it's acceptable since he probably deserved it. A guy slaps a girl in the face, grabs her, etc. and he's an asshole who deserves to be charged with assault and have his ass kicked despite her striking first. If more men hit women when they deserved it, true equality would be in effect, however, women want perks along with equality so there will NEVER BE EQUALITY. How you can think that logic is flawed is beyond me. If you say men are stronger than women so they shouldn't hit women, then fine. I'll just waltz up to someone bigger and stronger than me and punch his lights out, since you know, he can't hit me back because I'm smaller and weaker than him ( remember, the argument wasn't gender related but strength related ).

Go cry more you fucking pansy white knight, everything that you've said there goes to show who will wear the pants in your relationship since you feel obligated to save Rapunzel. It's men like you that keep the balance of equality always teetering to one side.

Also: I'd love for you to quote where I've ever condoned woman abuse without it pertaining to self-defense, where I've generalized all women without giving reason to my thinking, and where I haven't given credit to women who aren't like how I depict a lot to be like. For the record, my uncle was beat half to death with golf clubs by his ex-wife, and I've read into a lot of research talking about how women assault men on the same average that men assault women, so for you to think that women don't make up the same average that men do goes to show that YOU TOO generalize women and think they can do no harm because they have a vagina.

 

[Sauk]

I don't go around accusing women of being like this until I see the similar trend that I do  .

 

Whenever I have / had bad experiences with women, it's always due to me being  , where they're  . I don't go around and talk to women about what they do wrong and how all women are inferior to men etc., I just don't give two shits about their feelings getting hurt when I've had enough of something that they're doing which they don't seem to like ( plus the fact that I have had a first hand experience in women being cold hearted and not caring about someone else when the opportunity to take advantage of them arises ).

Other than that, I'm not grouping all women together ( it may seem like it ), I'm just saying " How am I supposed to think otherwise when all I see is similarity within the way females act? "

" If they aren't bitches? Then I won't classify or treat them like that.
If they are? They will be treated as such. "

I call a spade a spade and treat a dog like a dog, how is that a generalization?

" out-spoken and opinionated "

I was pertaining to myself when I said that...

 

[Sauk]

Also, retard, it looks like you too are generalizing men in your arguments which is leading me to believe that you either have a weak argument and just wanted to get your 2 white knight cents in, or you've been raised to treat a girl like a queen ( which was my exact argument ). If it's the latter, then you've made my argument stronger by being a live example of how people view women as them being these glorious saints that can do no harm and deserve to be mounted on a pedestal. If it's the former, then the next time you have a thought, let it go.

 

[Twirly]

not sure why you're so bitter about it;
i mean my blood father never gave my mom even one red cent after they divorced and he even kidnapped me (as a baby) to get out of it (and then after i was returned i never saw him nor heard from him again).
if anything it's too easy to get out of paying child support. people who don't contribute towards their own kid's well-being are fucking dick assholes.

Hey man, I agree with you. But I am only "bitter" about women abusing childsupport like kelis does.
WHY PAY $55'000 CHILD SUPPORT FOR A BABY NO CIRCUMSTANCES ALLOW THAT.
I am not only bitter, I am fucking furios man. I hate people living at the expense of someone else's expense.
(this part is not directed at anyone)
And alimony is fucking bullshit too, get the fuck out with alimony, it's a shitty concept that should only be used under heavy circumstances (like domestic violence).
If you think alimony is justified under light circumstances should go back to 1940. If you think you can get through life without any education/apprenticeship it's your own damn fault.
Not to mention that you need matrimonial agreements nowadays b/c otherwise some bitch will marry you, get divorced and then she'll fucking snatch half of your money even though she didn't contribute for affording it. Imo something like seperation of property should be the standart.

 

[Daxis]

sauk, cool down man that was bit of a rage series of posts.

" If they aren't bitches? Then I won't classify or treat them like that.
If they are? They will be treated as such. "

I call a spade a spade and treat a dog like a dog, how is that a generalization?"

dude
come on
the "they" embodies a whole mass of people- and you have just generalized a mass of people that you have known to being a certain type of person

and mundane never said that women were NOT bitches, just defended that the ENTIRE population are not. i know that you're not saying the entire population are not bitches, but you seem to have said something similar a lot man

females emotions mean everything to them ( at least, what I've experienced ).

Yes, I am over-exaggerating with the for ever asshole thing because that would be ludicrous to think that, but it seems that more men who feel superior to women had a bad experience with 1 or more women.

. Even though I know one bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch, it's hard for me to believe so from witnessing what I have and picking up on certain trends in behaviour.

i'm sorta defending mundane here, as i don't think he's said anything explicit about how women should be protected or whatever, but sauk, you should calm down man. Even if you do think he's a white knight, go calmly and clearly and don't post a white knight pic until he's at least responded to you as to his opinion on that.

 

[Sauk]

sauk, cool down man that was bit of a rage series of posts.

" If they aren't bitches? Then I won't classify or treat them like that.
If they are? They will be treated as such. "

I call a spade a spade and treat a dog like a dog, how is that a generalization?"

dude
come on
the "they" embodies a whole mass of people- and you have just generalized a mass of people that you have known to being a certain type of person

and mundane never said that women were NOT bitches, just defended that the ENTIRE population are not. i know that you're not saying the entire population are not bitches, but you seem to have said something similar a lot man

females emotions mean everything to them ( at least, what I've experienced ).

Yes, I am over-exaggerating with the for ever asshole thing because that would be ludicrous to think that, but it seems that more men who feel superior to women had a bad experience with 1 or more women.

. Even though I know one bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch, it's hard for me to believe so from witnessing what I have and picking up on certain trends in behaviour.

i'm sorta defending mundane here, as i don't think he's said anything explicit about how women should be protected or whatever, but sauk, you should calm down man. Even if you do think he's a white knight, go calmly and clearly and don't post a white knight pic until he's at least responded to you as to his opinion on that.

I have terrible rage issues, and I really hate white knights that post just to post.

Yes, I am over-exaggerating with the for ever asshole thing because that would be ludicrous to think that, but it seems that more men who feel superior to women had a bad experience with 1 or more women.

I don't see any illogic here. Normally people who are afraid of black people have had bad experiences with 1 or more black people, same goes for anybody. If a girl cheats on a guy, and he gets cheated on or mistreated by more women, won't he be cautious around women and hate them? I don't get why you quoted this is all.

The whole " they " aspect is pertaining to women, but what I meant by that was if a woman is acting like a bitch, I shall treat her like a bitch ( I tried to pluralize it to show I was talking about a certain group of women, and not women as a whole ).

Me claiming he's a white knight has everything to do with a lot of the stuff he said, basically putting women on a pedestal and claiming them to be queens that don't do anything wrong and that " men like me " shit, plus he contradicted himself by claiming that I was generalizing and then generalizes himself with not only women but men. The fact that he said a lot of my arguments were irrational WITHOUT ANY EXAMPLES and then proceeded to say all that shit showed me where his thought process is, and that is white knighting women. I also hate it when people take what I say, mis-interpret it, and tell me that I have a certain agenda / where I'm coming from when they clearly don't understand what is going on and shouldn't give an opinion.

I will be calm next time someone says something as long as they're not a dumb shit like he is.

 

[Daxis]

I'm pretty sure i quoted that one as a generalize in that you generalized in how

men who feel superior to women
thus must
have had bad experiences with 1 or more women

it wasn't a female generalization, but sorta explaining why some men abuse, which is not true in all cases. I think my explanation is pretty weak, but i see something.

and the main reason i quoted that was to prove my point that it seemed like you did generalize. in the previous sentence,

Yes, I am over-exaggerating with the for ever asshole thing because that would be ludicrous to think that

you say that you don't want to generalize, but then the

but it seems that more men who feel superior to women had a bad experience with 1 or more women.

seems to state that you can't help but to generalize/think of women in this way.

actually this one exemplifies that point a bit better

. Even though I know one bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch, it's hard for me to believe so from witnessing what I have and picking up on certain trends in behaviour.

anyways, raging is fine as long as you calm down and don't go olivia with it.
Also, Im pretty sure that debates and junk go better when you attack the argument, not the person (and even if you do attack him, give out the reason why you are attacking first, you know?)


edited some crap, wrote the first arg wrong

 

[Sauk]

I wasn't giving reason for a guy to abuse a woman, I was talking about the reason you see some men holding hatred for women / treating women like dirt ( using them for money / sex / calling them foul names / cheating on them ). I can see why you'd think about abuse though, since asshole is a pretty broad term that could contain a whole bunch of elements, however, I wasn't pertaining to physical abuse.


The bad apple quote is me trying to say that although I do know not all women are like that, more times than less I find similar traits within them ( which is me seeing them do stuff that I see other girls do / acting like other girls act ). Idk, maybe I am generalizing, I don't see it as that though. I won't think a girl is like this until she shows me that I have reason to, and more times than not they do show me ( I could have said it like that, or could have said it better, but that's what I basically meant ).

 

[Mundane]

Your ranting doesn't help your case. I really have no response because in my eyes you made a fool of yourself. I'll post in here when I want. As far as defending women, you're god damn right I will. If you're going to continue to throw your bullshit internet research around instead of logically talking about this you're going to continue to make an ass of yourself. You started this thread and you're getting torn to pieces. Your long rant about women being able to get away with hitting men, and men not, is completely bogus. On the basis of things, if you consider religion and 'good' moral values no one should hit anyone for any reason. Gender is a purely biological component to humanity and we've stretched it to unfathomable psychological and sociological extents - it should have no bearing on half the issues you've presented.

You embody the very reason these stereotypes exist. You're afraid of women because you feel they possess some power over you. I find it hilarious that you assume I'm a pansy because I understand something you clearly do not. You have a deep contempt for the female gender for such silly reasons. Equality isn't about who can hit on who, who can hit who physically, or anything of that nature. It's all centered on the shear fact that men and women do not have distinct roles in society. Every role we've attributed to your so called 'bitches' has been male defined and male orchestrated. Feminists want that erased and they want their roles to be their own. I feel that this understanding of society will help me in relationships; whereas with yours, I feel you'll constantly be in a struggle because you want to smack someone but know you can't. Welcome to society Saukrates.

 

[Sauk]

herp derp

Yes, I could have reacted better, but that doesn't take away from the fact that you contradicted yourself while pointing the finger at me. You'll post here when you want, good for you, big tough guy. As far as defending women, it's not like a woman needs you to defend her you stupid white knight ( thank you, now I can actually call you one without me being an ass for assuming it ). Do you think that you're superior to me because you've been taught to put women on pedestals and believe that they're these Queens whose shit doesn't stink? I started this thread and have not been torn to pieces, you remind me of this retarded kid on another forum who didn't understand my arguments and flew off the handle accusing me of stuff and TELLING ME how I was thinking and that I have an agenda and other stupid shit. I don't believe in religion, since it's all a bunch of bullshit contradictions, and my morals do include not hitting people, however, why is it over-looked when a woman slaps a man and why is it expected for a man not to react? That's not equality, that's fucking superiority.

I'm afraid of women because I feel like they're more powerful than me? LOL. You're honestly pulling arguments out of your ass right now. I don't assume that you're a pansy because you're some sort of genius in the laws of women behaviour ( seems like someone has a superiority complex, go figure it's the same one pointing the fingers ), I think you're a pansy bitch because you put the opposite sex on a pedestal and kiss their big toes. I don't give a fuck if you respect someone when they deserve it, but giving out respect because of a wet crack between the thighs shows a weak backbone. Equality isn't who can hit who? It's not the assault part, it's the principal. I don't want a law to be passed that men can strike women at their every whim, because it's disgusting when people hit other people, HOWEVER, if they want to try and effeminate a man by hitting him and disrespecting him / embarrassing him in public? She deserves to get hit back. Every action has a reaction, whether it's positive or negative. If I gave someone money, I wouldn't expect a thank you but more than likely it would happen. If I hit some guy in the jaw, I'd expect a fight to break out. The fact that a PERSON can slap you in the face and you can't do shit about it goes to show how " equal " things really are. I know women don't get paid the same wages as men, which is bullshit because it's the same amount of productivity, but where men have a double standard women have 2. A woman calls you a fucking screw up, a fucking pig, spits in your hair, slaps you in the face / throws something at you, but she doesn't fit the definition of a bitch? What is she, a lady? I don't understand how you can't see how un-lady like and how disgusting of an attitude that is.

Just by this line "Every role we've attributed to your so called 'bitches' has been male defined and male orchestrated" I can tell that you clearly have no idea where I'm coming from and assume that when I say I hate bitches I mean I hate women. A woman who cheats, slaps, throws shit, bites, kicks in the nuts, spits at, feels that she deserves to be treated like a queen at all times and her man / any man has to bow down to her, curses like a sailor, uses people for money, intentionally gets pregnant to stick a relationship together, etc. is a bitch, and unfortunately I see a lot of trends within women, where they feel they can humiliate and disrespect a man by hitting them and expect not to get hit back, think they deserve to be treated like queens despite them being a horrible person, and feel as though they deserve everything because they can give birth. Do I think all women are like this? No, but I've YET TO FIND ONE THAT ISN'T like this in SOME form or fashion.

 

[Sauk]

Also, you saying my internet research is bullshit and that studies showing women to be just as aggressive as men are lies because women aren't vindictive like men goes to show that you too are generalizing women and giving them a distinct role in society: All of which you shunned me for apparently doing. You remind me of Afrocentrists talking about how the white man enslaved their people and that white people are all devils and expect people to acknowledge that white people enslaved them, but when they're shown that Africans had a hand in slavery, they either discredit it and claim racism / try and rationalize a reason to clear blame.

Basically all I'm reading when you talk about that is women can't be aggressive because I'm just as much of a sexist as I'm claiming Saukrates to be, only my sexism is in favour on women's behalf so it must make it right and any information about women abusing men is either wrong or justified because women are saints.

 

[Lyric]

Twirly, the fact the courts decided 55k a month was a good amount leads me to believe he has little if any custody of that child. The less you see the kid, generally the more you end up paying out. Is there a reason you're being so hostile? Did your daddy get charged a heap that your mom smoked up in a pipe or something? I really don't get it. I don't understand where your self-righteous rage comes from.

Same goes for saukrates. Do you have mommy issues too? I don't understand why you're raging all over the place.

I'm going to leave this topic because it's quite clear that the few who have inferiority complexes and insecurity issues can shout over the rest, but I'll leave with this. Perhaps you're so angry because you do in fact feel inferior to strong women, and that it has much more to do with your own insecurities than it has to do with feminism, equality, and the fight women have to put up to play on even ground.