Feminism

[Twirly]

-Why is it that men have to pay alimonies even though they aren't the provider of their ex-spouse anymore?
I personally believe that it is because women in those cases have allowed their careers to slump off with full agreement of their partners. It's hard for them to find work when they've given it up. That, or they grow accustomed to fulfilling their role at home, or have taken care of children long enough to be completely out of touch with the work force. I think men who stay at home in agreement with their wife should collect allimony should they split too.

That's no argument because nowadays you have women who work even though they are married, like my mother even though she comes from a pretty old-fashioned family. This isn't 1940 anymore. Also even if, it doesn't matter, when you are divorced you should only bear responsibility for your child.
Why the hell should I work for some woman I don't fuck with anymore, bullshit! Those people simply need to grow up, I can't stand all this "bawww I can't get money on my own!" - yes you can! You married someone and it was a mistake and it was your decision. Now you have to find a way to get things straight.
Bullshit like this enforces the mentality of not doing shit, being a lazy piece of shit and getting money.

 

[Twirly]

Saukrates, I see you live in England, and all "cool" girls there are like you describe them. My cousin (14) lives there and she's like that, what a fucking shame.

 

[Sauk]

idg balking about the "don't hit chicks" thing

does it really come up that often??

are you just talking about being playful or something?
b/c i'll gently slug people playfully from time to time
getting hit back is part of it (again, not hard!)

if it's not being playful, wtf kind of girls do you hang out with?

it sounds to me like you're gaging these opinions entirely from a couple of cliques of high school or sorority girls who are vain and retarded.

Every time I've been hit by a girl, it's had to do with her insulting me to the point where I can't take it anymore and say " would you seriously shut the fuck up, it's getting on my nerves ", to which she flips her shit and calls me an asshole and purposely insults me to try and hurt my feelings, resulting in me yelling at her and her slapping me for talking to her in that manner. I don't mean to say that all girls are abusive, or all girls try to effeminate a man by putting their hands on him, but there are a lot more cases popping up where the abuser in a situation, whether domestic or not, was a woman ( seeming to be a direct result of the girl power, independent women shit ). I don't mind that women can pay her bills and shit, I'd make fun of her if she couldn't, but I can't stand independent women because most ( if not all ) of them seem to be extremists.

Back to the hitting thing:

This girl spat in my friends hair and was killing herself laughing, her boyfriend then persisted to tell buddy who got spat on " don't do shit " because my friend was about to hit her hard. I've been slapped countless amounts of times for defending myself against verbal fights ( lol Septimus is a broken record ) because apparently I was wrong and should have taken their " punishment " for they are queens and dictate what is right and wrong ( it's only right if it benefits them ). I know it doesn't happen every where everyday, but how am I to form an opinion on a subject when all I see is it happening?

It's like if two guys were in a conflict, one a weakling and the other a bowser. The weakling instigated a fight by opening his mouth, and the bowser tried ignoring him. The brute then got irritated, since the weakling didn't know when to shut his mouth, so he lashed out at him, causing the weakling to slap him / punch him... what's going to happen? The big guy is going to knock the guy out.

One last example: This girl at a party was whoring around and being obnoxious ( yes intoxicated, but still ). The host had enough since people were complaining and tried kicking her out. She flipped shit and threw bottles at him and around the place, causing a scene and tried attacking him. He then pushed her out of the door, she stumbled, and hit her head off the concrete. The cops showed up, and she claimed that he had punched her in the face. Everyone attested that she was going crazy and wouldn't leave so he kicked her out and she fell, but he still ended up charged with assault on a woman, and she only got a drunk in public charge despite her attempts of assault with a deadly weapon.

Twirly: Nah brah, I'm from Canada. London, ON.

 

[Daxis]

i asked everyone in the room, and they all agreed no one would ever hit a girl for real, not just in anger but for truth, not hit a girl back for real.

and nah, not talking about the girls that hit people playfully, but the girls that hit for real. besides, my entire environment and life is a stereotype. :\

 

[Venetia]

That's no argument because nowadays you have women who work even though they are married, like my mother even though she comes from a pretty old-fashioned family. This isn't 1940 anymore. Also even if, it doesn't matter, when you are divorced you should only bear responsibility for your child.
Why the hell should I work for some woman I don't fuck with anymore, bullshit! Those people simply need to grow up, I can't stand all this "bawww I can't get money on my own!" - yes you can! You married someone and it was a mistake and it was your decision. Now you have to find a way to get things straight.
Bullshit like this enforces the mentality of not doing shit, being a lazy piece of shit and getting money.

you're mixing up child support & alimony. they are 2 diff things. and you have some misinformation.

depending on the "fault", you may have to pay for neither, one, or both--but alimony & child support are separate and sometimes ruled separately, too.


with child support, you are giving money to the person with the majority of custody of the child.

if you have a kid then it is your responsibility to contribute to their well-being monetarily. some people don't want to do that so the court had to step in and say it was mandatory. i 100% agree with people paying child support and those who don't are worthless fucking assholes.

you have to pay child support until the child is 18.
if you feel the money is not going towards the child's care, you can actually bring it to court.


alimony was established in a time when there was no such thing as a "true divorce". women were not allowed to work. if a man married a woman and he separated from her, he'd have to continue paying for her cost of living b/c she would never be legally allowed to remarry, and marriage was her only legal avenue of income.

NOWADAYS [in the US], if you are divorced and claim no fault for the dissolution of the marriage, you DO NOT pay alimony.

Alimony is not permanent, unless you live in 1 of 4 states that still allow it, and there are some extreme circumstances behind the need.

If you are at fault for the dissolution of the marriage then it is likely you will have to pay for the other party to reconcile the extreme losses taken on from splitting assets.


NOTE:

* Men can file for alimony if the woman is at-fault!

* Alimony winnings' time limits & sums depend upon relative incomes, debts, and the employability of either party. It is usually about on-par with unemployment benefits (see: doesn't last long or pay much).

* If the payer of alimony cannot afford the minimum judgment, the state will pay the remainder.

* If there is no fault, it's a No Fault Dissolution of Marriage. Neither party pays alimony and debt is split among either party.



A lot of people believe that one person should take full-time responsibility of a child, atleast until it is of school-age -- and that belief is backed by countless studies that measure the well-being of child development. It's usually the woman b/c of social stigma and relative incomes (please note: women still make less than men on average!). it's not unreasonable for someone to be unemployed to care for a child for long enough for it to be really difficult to suddenly re-enter the work force.


imagine:

you're married & own a decent house. you quit to care for your kid when it's born while the other works. you've been unemployed for 4 years and the kid has another year to go before school starts.

one day, out of the blue, your spouse beats you up in a fit of rage. well you can't be expected to honor the marriage after that, right?

so the spouse is ordered to leave and you start the divorce process. but--holy shit--they left you, unemployed, with a child, and a mortgage, and other debt.

so you scramble to find a job but it's been so long, businesses don't want to hire you. let's say you never got that college degree b/c you had the kid in the middle of earning it. so the best job you can get for a while is temp-work or menial labor.

before your divorce, you were living on $60k/year. but suddenly you can only make $18k/year. you can't sell the house b/c no one will buy it. you sell everything else but your kid needs food & clothes and a decent place to live. and, daycare--which child support rarely covers and costs $2-400/week.

what the fuck do you do? it's not like you asked your spouse to beat you up or cheat on you or whatever other horrible thing.

shit like that happens all the fucking time--all. the. time.

sure, a lot of people don't deserve alimony. but most that seek it do need it!


stop being closed-minded :/

 

[Sauk]

http://divorcesupport.about.com/od/abusiverelationships/a/male_abuse.htm

A recent 32-nation study by the University of New Hampshire found female students initiate partner violence as often as male students and controlling behavior exists equally in perpetrators of both sexes.

A University of Florida study recently found women are more likely than men to "stalk, attack and abuse" their partners. “We’re seeing women in relationships acting differently nowadays than we have in the past,” said Angela Gover, a UF criminologist who led the research. “The nature of criminality has been changing for females, and this change is reflected in intimate relationships as well.”

A University of Washington study recently found women were nearly twice as likely as men to perpetrate domestic violence in the past year including kicking, biting or punching their partner, threatening to hit or throw something at their partner, and pushing, grabbing or shoving their partner.

Virtually all sociological data shows women initiate domestic violence as often as men, that women use weapons more than men, and that 38% of injured victims are men. California State University Professor Martin Fiebert summarizes almost 200 of these studies online.

For every asshole, there was a woman who made him that way.


MY FAVOURITE QUOTE

Why Women Assualt:
California State University surveyed 1,000 college women: 30% admitted they assaulted a male partner.
Their most common reasons:
(1) my partner wasn't listening to me
(2) my partner wasn't being sensitive to my needs
(3) I wished to gain my partner's attention.

Those were just reported incidents.. imagine all the unreported incidents.

 

[Daxis]

http://divorcesupport.about.com/od/abusiverelationships/a/male_abuse.htm

A recent 32-nation study by the University of New Hampshire found female students initiate partner violence as often as male students and controlling behavior exists equally in perpetrators of both sexes.

A University of Florida study recently found women are more likely than men to "stalk, attack and abuse" their partners. “We’re seeing women in relationships acting differently nowadays than we have in the past,” said Angela Gover, a UF criminologist who led the research. “The nature of criminality has been changing for females, and this change is reflected in intimate relationships as well.”

A University of Washington study recently found women were nearly twice as likely as men to perpetrate domestic violence in the past year including kicking, biting or punching their partner, threatening to hit or throw something at their partner, and pushing, grabbing or shoving their partner.

Virtually all sociological data shows women initiate domestic violence as often as men, that women use weapons more than men, and that 38% of injured victims are men. California State University Professor Martin Fiebert summarizes almost 200 of these studies online.

For every asshole, there was a woman who made him that way.


MY FAVOURITE QUOTE

Why Women Assualt:
California State University surveyed 1,000 college women: 30% admitted they assaulted a male partner.
Their most common reasons:
(1) my partner wasn't listening to me
(2) my partner wasn't being sensitive to my needs
(3) I wished to gain my partner's attention.

Those were just reported incidents.. imagine all the unreported incidents.

i;m gonna say that you exxagerate when you say that there was a woman behind EVERY ass. Behind lots of those that have reason to be, at least, but I know some assholes (myself sometimes included), and it's not always a woman that causes evil

indeed, the statistics seem to show that women are a lot higher in regards to things like violence, I think that some of the harder violence cases, such as domestic violence, are still about equal, like the domestic violence statistic. (the fact that the reasons seemed more petty might tip it a bit though). At least feminists have some part to have equality about :\

Although I think that men are (i don;t want to say better) more advantageous in these regards, with a main point being rape. Raping females is a simple, easy to initiate, and very damaging to the female, physically and emotionally. Nothing is needed, powerful results. (fuck males raping males gets the same stuff as well). Females to rape males would be a lot harder to do, with such things as tying the man down (generally weaker body constitution), making him erect, and i'm pretty sure for various males the emotional damage would not be as bad.

I think the fact that males can rape at the very least balances out your statistics.

 

[Sauk]

i;m gonna say that you exxagerate when you say that there was a woman behind EVERY ass. Behind lots of those that have reason to be, at least, but I know some assholes (myself sometimes included), and it's not always a woman that causes evil

indeed, the statistics seem to show that women are a lot higher in regards to things like violence, I think that some of the harder violence cases, such as domestic violence, are still about equal, like the domestic violence statistic. (the fact that the reasons seemed more petty might tip it a bit though). At least feminists have some part to have equality about :\

Although I think that men are (i don;t want to say better) more advantageous in these regards, with a main point being rape. Raping females is a simple, easy to initiate, and very damaging to the female, physically and emotionally. Nothing is needed, powerful results. (fuck males raping males gets the same stuff as well). Females to rape males would be a lot harder to do, with such things as tying the man down (generally weaker body constitution), making him erect, and i'm pretty sure for various males the emotional damage would not be as bad.

I think the fact that males can rape at the very least balances out your statistics.

It may seem petty to you and I ( when I saw that I nearly raged over how stupid of reasons they were, only further fueling my irrational thinking theory ), but a females emotions mean everything to them ( at least, what I've experienced ).

Look at the examples in my OP.

Girl at a club with her BF, she is talking to some random guys, so he talks to some random girl.
She gets jealous, figures she's right and he's wrong, and slaps him in the face for "being an ass".

Girl claims that men shouldn't cry
I claim she's a bitch
She says that it's a mans job to comfort her, but she wouldn't comfort him
I ask the question " What if he didn't and said it was nothing " -(2) my partner wasn't being sensitive to my needs
She claims she would slap him and break up with him.



Yes, I am over-exaggerating with the for ever asshole thing because that would be ludicrous to think that, but it seems that more men who feel superior to women had a bad experience with 1 or more women.

 

[Ellie]

You're tarring 50% of the population with the same brush.

Perhaps if you didn't consider all women to be "typical womanish", you wouldn't have such bad experiences?

 

[Sauk]

You're tarring 50% of the population with the same brush.

Perhaps if you didn't consider all women to be "typical womanish", you wouldn't have such bad experiences?

I don't go around accusing women of being like this until I see the similar trend that I do in most women that I know.

If they aren't bitches? Then I won't classify or treat them like that.
If they are? They will be treated as such.

Whenever I have / had bad experiences with women, it's always due to me being out-spoken and opinionated, where they're used to everyone agreeing with them and them getting their way / getting away with being a bitch. I don't go around and talk to women about what they do wrong and how all women are inferior to men etc., I just don't give two shits about their feelings getting hurt when I've had enough of something that they're doing which they don't seem to like ( plus the fact that I have had a first hand experience in women being cold hearted and not caring about someone else when the opportunity to take advantage of them arises ).

Other than that, I'm not grouping all women together ( it may seem like it ), I'm just saying " How am I supposed to think otherwise when all I see is similarity within the way females act? "

 

[regi]

I have to agree with como. You might live in a neighborhood or community full of massive douches, but that doesn't mean you can extend the stereotype to everyone. It's true, there are some pretty ignorant and narrow-minded fucks out there but if you don't hang out with that kind of type and just ignore the ones that get in your way, you should be fine.

 

[Sauk]

I have to agree with como. You might live in a neighborhood or community full of massive douches, but that doesn't mean you can extend the stereotype to everyone. It's true, there are some pretty ignorant and narrow-minded fucks out there but if you don't hang out with that kind of type and just ignore the ones that get in your way, you should be fine.

Oh, I wasn't disagreeing with Wyatt in an sense, I was just explaining the reason for me thinking this way.

Think of religion. Someone has been taught that the way of God is the truth and what really happened. Science backs up Atheism, but that person still believes in God because of the fact that he was surrounded by that lifestyle.

I've been surrounded by malicious bitches for a good portion of my life and have spotted trends in most of the women that I know. Even though I know one bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch, it's hard for me to believe so from witnessing what I have and picking up on certain trends in behaviour.

 

[regi]

Oh, I wasn't disagreeing with Wyatt in an sense, I was just explaining the reason for me thinking this way.

Think of religion. Someone has been taught that the way of God is the truth and what really happened. Science backs up Atheism, but that person still believes in God because of the fact that he was surrounded by that lifestyle.

I've been surrounded by malicious bitches for a good portion of my life and have spotted trends in most of the women that I know. Even though I know one bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch, it's hard for me to believe so from witnessing what I have and picking up on certain trends in behaviour.

No, I understand. And I agree with your point: all of us have been brainwashed and indoctrinated by society. Be it religion, stereotypes, traditions, our mindsets have been narrowly shaped and defined our entire life (take Huck Finn for example: he grew up thinking whites were superior to blacks, and his conscience told him it was wrong to help a slave run away!)

My only point is to keep an open mind. Maybe you've had bad experiences with lots of ignorant women. Sure. But know that there's hope in the world-- I have plenty of friends who are the complete opposite. It's just one of those things you gotta accept; it may alter your perspective, but it's true, and I'm sure you'll meet girls that understand your point of view.

 

[Sauk]

Oh, I wasn't disagreeing with Wyatt in an sense, I was just explaining the reason for me thinking this way.

Think of religion. Someone has been taught that the way of God is the truth and what really happened. Science backs up Atheism, but that person still believes in God because of the fact that he was surrounded by that lifestyle.

I've been surrounded by malicious bitches for a good portion of my life and have spotted trends in most of the women that I know. Even though I know one bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch, it's hard for me to believe so from witnessing what I have and picking up on certain trends in behaviour.

No, I understand. And I agree with your point: all of us have been brainwashed and indoctrinated by society. Be it religion, stereotypes, traditions, our mindsets have been narrowly shaped and defined our entire life (take Huck Finn for example: he grew up thinking whites were superior to blacks, and his conscience told him it was wrong to help a slave run away!)

My only point is to keep an open mind. Maybe you've had bad experiences with lots of ignorant women. Sure. But know that there's hope in the world-- I have plenty of friends who are the complete opposite. It's just one of those things you gotta accept; it may alter your perspective, but it's true, and I'm sure you'll meet girls that understand your point of view.

Oh okay, I'm glad that you understand, and I shall try my best to keep an open mind regarding what you have said, it's just a little hard when I see trends within most women I meet.

 

[Venetia]

life's a lot less aggravating when you start looking at people as cockroaches until you get to know them.

until you know otherwise, everyone is just a giant disease-ridden poop-eating babyfactory. women, men, whatever.

people suck in general.

but sometimes you'll meet a cool one, so keep an open mind

 

[BlueScope]

So many posts since I went on vacation... ~.~ First of all...

@Venetia: My use of the word 'race' was simply that I couldn't come up with 'species' right that second, however I didn't consider it wrong at all... therefore, thanks for clearing things up.
As for the female dominance among animals - you seem to know a lot about the topic, so it ties my judgement between you and previously heard statements... plus your statement regarding "arachnids, insects and birds" (which is a bunch of animals already, but still) kinda makes me think what other animals fall in the category... I do know it's not exclusively a topic of those three, though, for example hyenas have dominant females (which I know because they've been discussed explicitly somewhen during my long-gone school period).

Either way, thanks for sharing some knowledge there, however since you said it's because of physical and evolutionary differences - my point still kind of stands: There's more alive female humans than male ones, because their life expectations are longer by about 5 years or so, iirc. They have to deal less with physically exhausting jobs, partly because of the job's nature (firefighters tend to be majorly male because of their stronger nature), partly because they haven't been allowed to (for example, there's been no women in the German military for a long time other than in medic or musical positions, which got changed in 2001); and until recently. Obviously, that was more vast in medieval or even earlier times.
So, the reason i said 'kind of' up there is that those obviously aren't ultimately deciding factors, as the differences are rather slim. Still, it seems that females have had the better chances to begin with to become the dominant gender...
Tell me where I'm wrong?

idg balking about the "don't hit chicks" thing

does it really come up that often??

are you just talking about being playful or something?
b/c i'll gently slug people playfully from time to time
getting hit back is part of it (again, not hard!)

if it's not being playful, wtf kind of girls do you hang out with?

it sounds to me like you're gaging these opinions entirely from a couple of cliques of high school or sorority girls who are vain and retarded.

Regarding that... while my personal experience is that is does come up, I have only witnessed it so many times. There's been that one incident what I based my previous elaboration on that a girl went overpossessive about a basketball court me and a buddy were already playing at. When we were like "sorry, but we're playing now" (and don't tell me I was supposed to clear the court after half an hour just because some random girl wants me to), which is when she went "leave, or I'll make you". Those of you who know my physics or martial arts history can imagine I wasn't exactly scared she'd send me to the hospital, so we were basically putting a smile on and ignored her. That's when she approached and kicked me in the backside of the lower leg (yay English skills), which hurt (naturally), but didn't quite loosened by stand. I returned it by dragging her off her feet (which is kind of easy when someone's a third your weight >> ), which resulted in her hitting her head on the grass. She started to get a bit cry-ey without actually crying, and was basically saying "what the hell did you do that for". Her super-awesome girl and boy friends arrived and were like "oh yay, let's mix them up", however since my buddy (who probably wouldn't have gotten the girl down, but wouldn't cheap out helping me defend off a few buggy people either) joined my in the >we want to play basketball, but if you have to annoy us, we'll get rid of you< mood, they basically went away after a few more insults and reasoning from both sides, which did involve "how can you hit a girl, omfg!".
Now I don't know she was initially approaching because she felt safe being a girl, however it definately illustrates that it IS something that happens, and while it might be the exception, it's not a "high school cliques" or bully problem, but something based on the fact that for some reason, females being the physically weaker gender gives them invulnerability to physical counter act.


All in all, the last thing I'd say is that all females are like that. Maybe it's because of my friend selection (you won't find any 'bitchy' or 'girly' girls there that think they're the queens of the universe), but I know a lot of girls who aren't considering them superior to men by definition.
I do, however, think that "a man should [...]" habits or thoughts are - if only just a little - in every girl that's been raised in western, and maybe even other societies.

 

[Venetia]

are you sure your opinions aren't just cultivated from a lifetime of "outsider judgment"?

like ok

do you take note of what all females are doing, or do you take note of what only a portion of young/teen/young adult girls are doing when they do strange/stupid things?


here's a stupid analogy,

you have lived on an island called Buttston your whole life.
you are used to Buttstonian customs/culture.
you sympathize with Buttstonian people.
there are a lot of tourists from Dickfer City that come to Buttston.
you know they're different, but mostly, you don't really take much notice of them.

but sometimes Dickferians say "BOOP!" in conversation.
it's weird; you've never really noticed a Buttstonian say that!

over a year, you take notice of a dozen or so Dickferians randomly saying "BOOP!".

SO, in your mind, saying "BOOP!" is just what Dickferians do.

Because you've never taken notice of the majority of them that don't say it at all.

In reality, only the low-class Dickferians say "BOOP!". Implying that they ALL do is offensive.

But since the "normal" Dickferians don't stand out in a weird way, how do you, as a Buttstonian, reach any other conclusion?

 

[BlueScope]

I tried to scatter the fact that I don't generalize. Instead what I want to say is that there indeed are examples like that, and while it's not the broad masses for sure, it's definately not something to go O_o about, as it's not completely non-present.

I can only post as objectively as subjectively possible... and so can everyone else.

 

[Twirly]

tbh ven i mixed up child support with alimony :/ I am talking about child support mostly
a good example is the nas and kelis case where nas has (had?) to pay 55 grand a month child support for a baby that's a few months old
that's just fucking foul man and stuff like that happens all the fucking time--all. the. time.

imagine:

you're married & own a decent house. you quit to care for your kid when it's born while the other works. you've been unemployed for 4 years and the kid has another year to go before school starts.

one day, out of the blue, your spouse beats you up in a fit of rage. well you can't be expected to honor the marriage after that, right?

so the spouse is ordered to leave and you start the divorce process. but--holy shit--they left you, unemployed, with a child, and a mortgage, and other debt.

so you scramble to find a job but it's been so long, businesses don't want to hire you. let's say you never got that college degree b/c you had the kid in the middle of earning it. so the best job you can get for a while is temp-work or menial labor.

before your divorce, you were living on $60k/year. but suddenly you can only make $18k/year. you can't sell the house b/c no one will buy it. you sell everything else but your kid needs food & clothes and a decent place to live. and, daycare--which child support rarely covers and costs $2-400/week.

what the fuck do you do? it's not like you asked your spouse to beat you up or cheat on you or whatever other horrible thing.

shit like that happens all the fucking time--all. the. time.

sure, a lot of people don't deserve alimony. but most that seek it do need it!

hey I totally agree here, esp. with the example but the problem lies here:

NOWADAYS [in the US], if you are divorced and claim no fault for the dissolution of the marriage, you DO NOT pay alimony.

When is it your fault? There is way too much room for interpretation in that, especially for the law :x

 

[Venetia]

a good example is the nas and kelis case where nas has (had?) to pay 55 grand a month child support for a baby that's a few months old

ok well yes that is an exorbitant amount. but that's an extreme case ...

it's mostly based on direct numbers though.

for child support, typically, a judge will look at earnings, debt amounts, asset amounts, cost-of-living amounts, and levels of "fault" for either party (and some other misc. factors).

the custodial party (i.e. the one who gets the kid) will offer a number they want per month. it's usually arbitrary (attorneys will gouge like crazy) and is rarely really considered.

so like in the case of the mega-rich ...

nas has had several platinum albums (and a number of others that went silver or gold ... plus royalties, tv appearances, etc etc). i don't know how much he's worth exactly but he has to rake in atleast $2m/year right now.

That's about $167,000/mo.

So in that figure, kelis + nas's kid are getting 1/3rd his monthly income. It sounds absurd to spend $55k/mo on a child (and it is), but ... Typically a child + care will chew up 1/3rd+ of your income. And kelis probably has some gigantically huge debt. (If she got a house, mortgage alone is probably about $6-10k/mo). And the attorneys she hired are probably taking out a massive chunk.

A friend of mine who has to pay child support made about $40k/year and he paid roughly $1k/mo in support and that's about a third, too. So yeah $55k/mo is wayyy too much but it's sort of comparable on a percentage-basis.

Yuck, it pains me to even think about blowing through $55k/mo though :/
Takes me over a year to earn that :/

When is it your fault? There is way too much room for interpretation in that, especially for the law :x

Yeah there is -a lot- of room for interpretation.

With No Fault divorce, you don't need an attorney. It only costs you a filing fee and a court fee (varies; usually about $400). So a lot of low-income people go that route (I did ... Even though I shouldn't have ... But I couldn't afford an attorney).

If you do At-Fault and you are claiming damages or trying to acquire custody or assets, you gotta hire an attorney. They cost an assload (typ. ~$200-600/hr). So that weeds a lot of people out in the 1st place!

But

Usually fault is determined by things like cheating, verbal/physical abuse, neglect, sexual assault/battery, etc.

Sometimes it's more unusual stuff like imprisonment, distance (like if one person just moves away), infertility, etc.

And others it's for difficult-to-measure stuff like generic money problems or sexual inefficacy.

Proof (pictures, police reports, etc) is preferred and typ will end in a better judgment ... But isn't required.

And often, both parties claim fault on the other party. So it's up to the judge to decide who was the bigger fuck-up.

When you don't have proof you fall into a grey area and that's when toes get stepped on and people get pissed.

It's all shitty but it happens.
Like 62% of the time :[