Believing in Santa Clause

[sixtyandaquarter]

There's always been a lot of debate on this.  Primarily with those who deal with counseling young children.  I remember my sister was told by a school counselor that Santa wasn't real, and that same counselor told my mother that my sister was living dangerously close to a fantasy world, if she still believed in "nonsense".

So, here's the series questions, that can easily spark a debate.
Do you believe in Santa Clause?  When is it right or wrong to believe in Santa?  Is it wrong for the older sibling to "ruin" things for the younger family or even other friends?  If I told you my sister was in the 3rd grade when she was told she was believing in nonsense, would you say that was too old?  Not old enough?  If I told you that I could name a bearded 25 year old who has actually passed a cheap lie detector saying that he does still believe in Santa Clause, would that be insane?

You get the picture right?

EDIT:
I probably should've mentioned how many believe that by describing Santa or Father Christmas as an elaborate lie, it is unethical to teach to children.  That it distorts trust and the ability to tell the truth given fantastic situations.

Others have said that it removes the foundations of Christmas as a holiday - that being Jesus Christ's birth, and it is in part responsible for the mass produced Hallmark-ing of the holiday.

Yet others have gone on record to show their support for a magical innocent fairy, the whole persona of Christmas in the non religious world has taught children to be good, and the "miracle of kindness" more so than any religious book has in the past, particularly during times of stress and anguish.
Let's discuss if it's wrong to believe in Santa Clause, and if there is an age to "put childish things away".

 

[rexxzecutioner]

I wouldn't advocate the teaching of a myth to be factual to any child of my own, so I would spare the nonsense. So obviously I myself do not believe in Saint Nicholas or any of his other names, and I don't really approve of the bastardization of Yule by Christianity either, not that it matters.

 

[shadow]

You mean.. santa isn't real??? :'(

Edit: I suppose I should post something constructive... I think it's fine to believe in santa claus when your young, but kids shouldn't be sheltered from the truth, and should be told the truth when they get curious.

 

[shiroun]

My S.S. teacher had something about this, it was about a (6th?) grader who believed in santa, mother called when the teacher was asking about epiffanys and to write about it, mentioned santa.


I think believing in Santa is great. The only time it is bad is if a person trys to shove belief up your *** or down your throat, whichever u prefer.

Again, Shadow is right, truth is a virtue, and a blessing.

 

[Ratty524]

Like the common small child, I did believe in Santa Clause, though it didn't really come from my parents.

I personally would not try to teach it to a child (if I'm ever going to have one), simply because I don't like lying. I would want to have them know at least some realities at an early age, so the "Santa Clause" bull is not a thing I would teach.

Yet others have gone on record to show their support for a magical innocent fairy, the whole persona of Christmas in the non religious world has taught children to be good, and the "miracle of kindness" more so than any religious book has in the past, particularly during times of stress and anguish.

I disagree with this (not saying that you believe it, Sixty). The reason is due to some pretty shocking words I heard from a young child's mouth during the time I worked as an assistant Counselor for a Youth Art program over the summer: "We don't do those things because we don't get rewards" is roughly what this kid said. What does this whole "Santa Claus" thing do? It rewards children for being good, but seriously, it is quite clear to me that this does not really teach kids about morals, but instead just gets them to act a certain way because they know they will get some type of reward. I feel it builds no sense of "goodness", it's just a form of bargaining.

 

[Overnerd]

Dont tell them he exists in the first place, and there will be no let down when they are older.

 

[Untra]

Santa exists to amuse us, and to sell toys to big name stores. Believing in him is almost the same as believing in harry potter; they exist only in fictional realms where their existence can only be comprehended through faith and devotion. As are all concepts of perception, belief in something will certainly make it real. A child may believe in Santa Claus, and in his/her perception of reality, Santa Claus is as real as you and me. However, a person looses this faith as they grow older, when they come to learn opposing concepts of reality that defy the child's faith.

Using philosophy in debates kicks ass!

 

[Loofah]

Being 13, I know that santa isn't real, but I still like the thought. The thing is if you tell a child that santa brought them a gift, they'll be happy. But if you tell a child that you bought them a gift for $300 of your savings, they'll probably just get sad that you spent your money.

So I really feel sorry for sixty's sister, what the hell kind of couciller tells an 8 year old that santa doesn't exist, I mean what an ass they were.

 

[Danny]

I myself don't believe in Santa, however there was once a Christopher Cringle who gave presents to those in his town every year on December 6th. This is where the image of Santa has came from in my view, and his legend is just merely carried on in a fantasy figure. I don't think there is a specific age to stop believing in Santa. It all depends on how you find out, but usually I'd expect it to be a few years before becoming a teenager. I think it is wrong to tell a child, or anyone who wishes to still believe in Santa that he doesn't exist. It is there belief, just like anything else, and to tell a young child Santa isn't real is very sick, as it take away some form of innocence from them.

 

[PeteD2S]

The concept of Santa Clause should be taught to children the way we know it, not the way it is normaly taught.

The grown up kids and the adults know that it is just a fictional character that somewhat symbolizes Christmas, and that is the way the parents should teach their children and not tell them that it is a fat, good, old guy, dressed in a red suit that descends through the chimney to leave presents by the X-Mas tree.

That may cause the children to get affected to the character and when they find out he doesn't exist, they will get a desillusion and disapointed with everyone around for lying to them and with the ones that may tell them he doesn't exist.

And also, this concept of Santa giving presents to the good children only, teaches the kids to act under the influence of a possible reward, as pointed by Ratty. This won't do them good.

This also applies to the easter bunny.

Heh, also something funny.

Spoiler

http://newmedia.funnyjunk.com/pictures/santa_sucks.jpg[/img]

 

[Danny]

@PeteD2S: I don't entirely agree. Many children before us, and including us have grown up believing in Santa, and when we accepted that Santa did not exist, I doubt any majour harm was caused. I say accepted, as it would truly be for the individual to give up the belief in the character, if they were told he wasn't real or not. I think for most children it is a gradual realisation. It's like growing up watching a tv show, and then eventually becoming intelligent enough and media smart enough to realize that your favourite characters don't really exist. If we had to let children grow up with the knowledge that Santa is just a symbolization, we'd have to let them know that most over things that appeal to them and there innocence (like tv characters) don't actually exist. And within doing so, you take away much of the child's innocence and are more likely to damage them emotionally in this way, than to let them believe in Santa.

As for the working to achieve  a reward, I'd say that's a very sensible discipine system. I know my parents use it with my younger brother. It let's children know that they will only do well, and recieve well if, and only if they act well.

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

Okay everyone talks about kids getting disillusioned or damaged in some way...

Who here has honestly been ruined in some way because "oh no the jolly fat man... *cries*!!!

I've never met anyone who was actually hurt by it.

 

[Danny]

My point exactly. If anything it's just giving developing the kid's conception of reality. It's just something most children will accepts, and most likely not even have to get over cause it wouldn't bother them that much. I mean, I was ten when I realized Santa wasn't real. I just kind of said when out shopping one day 'Hey Santa isn't real right', and that was it, I knew and I wasn't really bothered.

 

[rexxzecutioner]

Okay everyone talks about kids getting disillusioned or damaged in some way...

Who here has honestly been ruined in some way because "oh no the jolly fat man... *cries*!!!

I've never met anyone who was actually hurt by it.

I think it has more to do with the principle of not distorting your children's perception on the world. The same way I won't raise mine with religion. I don't believe there to be anything wrong with having it in your life as a person tool for happiness and peace, and thusly if they choose to follow any sort of belief, I will accept that, but it is obvious children are extremely impressionable and I will not brainwash them. If we taught the myth of Santa Claus as vigorously and extensive as people do of Christ and Yahweh, people would still believe that the fat man actually does visit you in the night to bring you presents.

 

[Sic Semper Tyranosaurus]

I believe in the Krampus.

 

[Yivyn]

Santa in my honest opinion, was based off Chris Kringle, someone who delivered presents to everyone in his village. His image was used to make something made up for kids to give them more than the "OH SWEET PRESENT DAY" mentality (although in generalization it IS Present day :P) but I guess to have a...holiday character to look up to, give them something to look for. The look on my little sisters face when she sees "To Hannah , From Santa" (She's 4) on the tag of a christmas present is just so hysterically cute, and for anyone to not introduce someone to Santa simply because of quote unquote "Psychological problems" is complete bullshit, because not including your child into something as kind spirited and heartwarming as Jolly Ol' Saint Nick is just...bad. Why not take away their childhood and make them focus on school and employment 24/77?

But I was told Santa wasn't real when he never brought me anything when I was 11 :P and I'm fine! *twitch, murmurs something antisemetic*

 

[Ceroscuro]

      No known species of reindeer can fly. But there are roughly 300,000 species of living organisms yet to be classified. While most of these are insects and germs, this does not rule out flying reindeer - though Santa and my uncle Ralph, in his drinking days, are the only people who've ever seen one.

      There are two billion children (small people under the age of 18) in the world. But since Santa doesn't (appear to) handle most non-Christian children, that reduces the workload to about 15 per cent of the total (roughly 378 million according to the Population Reference Bureau). At a rate of say, 3.5 children per household, that's 91.8 million homes. One presumes there's at least one good kid in each.

    Santa has 31 hours of Christmas to work with, thanks to the different time zones and the rotation of the earth, assuming he travels east to west.  That's 822.6 visits per second. For each eligible household, Santa has 1/1000th of a second to park the sleigh, jump down the chimney, fill the stockings, put presents under the tree, eat any snacks, kiss mommy when available, get back up the chimney, hop in the sleigh and move on.

    Assuming each of these 91.8 million stops are evenly distributed around the earth, we're now talking about 0.78 miles per household - a total trip of 75.5 million miles, not counting stops to let Santa and the reindeer do what most of us must do at least once every 31 hours.

    This means Santa's sleigh moves at 650 miles per second, or 3,000 times the speed of sound. The fastest man-made vehicle, the Ulysses space probe, moves at a poky 27.4 miles a second (a conventional reindeer, by the way, can run 15 miles per hour, tops).

    Assuming each child gets nothing more that a medium-sized Lego set (two pounds), the sleigh is carrying 321,300 tons, not counting overweight Santa. Conventional reindeer can pull no more than 300 pounds. Even granting flying reindeer could pull 10 times the normal amount, Santa would need 214,200 reindeer. This increases the payload (not counting the sleigh) to 353,430 tons, or four times the weight of the Queen Elizabeth II.

    353,000 tons travelling at 650 miles a second creates enormous air resistance, which would heat the reindeer to incandescence in the same fashion as spacecraft or meteors entering the earth's atmosphere. The lead pair of reindeer will absorb 14.3 quintillion joules of energy. Per second.  Each. In short, they will burst into flame almost instantaneously, exposing
the reindeer behind them and creating deafening sonic booms. The entire team will be vaporized within 4.26 thousandths of a second.

    Santa, meanwhile, will be subjected to centrifugal forces of 17,500.06 gravities. A 250-pound Santa (a wee bit of an underestimate) would be pinned to the back of his sleigh by 4,315,015 pounds of force.

    The Internet originator's conclusion to the above: "If Santa ever did deliver presents on Christmas Eve, he's dead now."

 

[Kojo]

What about us cynical kids who never believed in Santa? Wow, I JUST noticed that if you re-arange the letters in Santa's name you get SATAN! Heh. No, seriously, I think it is best to squish the child's dreams before they ever get old enough to learn to fight for what they believe in. As an older brother, I can say, that making your little brother beleive that cows once flew is just as entertaining as telling him Santa doesn't exist, and wondering myself where the gifts come from.

 

[Sic Semper Tyranosaurus]

My father used to tell my brother and I that Santa Claus was a vampire, and took a drop of our blood in exchange for gifts.

Yeah.

 

[Andy6000]

I disagree with this (not saying that you believe it, Sixty). The reason is due to some pretty shocking words I heard from a young child's mouth during the time I worked as an assistant Counselor for a Youth Art program over the summer: "We don't do those things because we don't get rewards" is roughly what this kid said. What does this whole "Santa Claus" thing do? It rewards children for being good, but seriously, it is quite clear to me that this does not really teach kids about morals, but instead just gets them to act a certain way because they know they will get some type of reward. I feel it builds no sense of "goodness", it's just a form of bargaining.

And yet that's the whole basis of society.  We don't avoid being bad because it's bad to hurt someone else, we do that because in turn we will be hurt, and that is negative for us.  Don't speed because you'll get a ticket.  Donate to charity and pray every night so you'll get into heaven.  There are a lot of things that are just bargaining with 'The Man'.  And 'The Man' could be God, the Guv-eh-ment, or society as a whole.  Or perhaps Santa?

I sure as hell refrain from most whims I come up with, because indulging in them would hurt my goals in the long run.  Be they 'don't get kicked out of the house by your parents', or 'get a good job and be super awesome rich', or even 'get a nice gift for christmas'.

Oh also nobody can go on believing in Santa Claus unless they've had a quite special upbringing.  One that involves nobody informing you about being the mommy/daddy of your own family.  Because when you are, you are Santa, and thus there can't be some fat guy shimmying down your chimney with a fat sack of presents.  Unless your first Christmas without your parents/someone giving you gifts you just wake up one Christmas morning and just assume you're a rotten asshole because there's no 'From Santa' present.