Women are useless.

[Marcus]

this is a repost from gamingw but it's good discussion material

So, I was discussing with my buddy the other day about "women in vidyas" and we both reached the conclusion that they are the most garbage and throwaway characters moreso than the minority characters and the specialist casters in RPG's (blue mages, summoners, etc.). 

To put it simply, nearly EVERY female role in a video game either casts them as

A: The protagonist who's really sassy, badass, and headstrong.  They can take on any male, fight demons and aren't afraid of anything.

or

B: The side-kick who's really bashful/spunky/quiet that assists the protagonist and usually (like, 99% of the time) has a crush on him but never ever admits it until the end of the game through some heartfelt dying conversation or after being rescued.

Females as antagonists are surprisingly more rare and by antagonist I mean they consistently oppose the protagonist from start to finish.  You'll notice that any game with a female antagonist will almost always reform before the end of the game (or before dying) or she'll reveal that she was an undercover agent or something/has a crush on the hero and joins the group.

So yeah, this discussion is about how utterly useless women are in video games.  You might as well create a world that's 100% male only because as long as you've got writers that feel every woman must serve only to help the man then there's really no point in their existence besides providing a rack to look at.  I can count the number of games with an actual female antagonist on one hand and the number of games with a female costar that's actually STRONGER (mentally and physically) than the hero on two hands.

I would kill for a Y the Last Man game just so every gamer could be completely baffled that the main character is a bumbling idiot in a world ruled by women.  Every gamer's head would collectively explode.

 

[moog]

What about Final Fantasy VI? I know its rather non-linear, but I would consider Terra the main character. She doesnt fit into either of those categories imo.

 

[Verdeni]

If I can make peace here...  Terra was useless in the sense that she went missing half way through the game... xD

 

[moog]

If I can make peace here...  Terra was useless in the sense that she went missing half way through the game... xD

Thats not even the point? I was talking about her characterization and vernacular, not what happens to her.

Plus like, EVERYONE goes missing so I dont see your point.

 

[Verdeni]

Thats not even the point? I was talking about her characterization and vernacular, not what happens to her.

Plus like, EVERYONE goes missing so I dont see your point.

I guess your right. Terra is quite a dynamic female character.

 

[Marcus]

Yeah I was going to mention Terra especially during the Phunbaba plot arc (a main character refusing to join the adventures because they have personal things to do?  INCONCEIVABLE THIS IS AN RPG I SPENT 20 HOURS LEVELING HER UP!!).  Personally I liked Celes better who quickly filled up the "Better than every male" slot as soon as she entered the party.  I personally feel that Sabin was that game's stereotypical female because he was this ninja master that acted like a huge girl and even Realm had some personality.

I never did like Marle or Lucca at first in Chrono Trigger but once Robo joined the party Lucca became a decent character and once the plot behind Lavos was revealed Marle started to shine.

Feena from Grandia is probably one of my favorite females in a Japanese RPG and the writers had the balls to create a love story centered around the main character that actually developed over time instead of slapping you in the face near the end of the game.  The voice acting was horrendous but it was pretty awesome when the two were alone and Feena's like

Spoiler

  Justin
    ... ...Feena... Because of the Moon's light, you look so beautiful...
    B-but, of course, you're always pretty !! What am I saying ? It's
    stupid.

    Feena
    Strange, isn't it... Things that we usually don't say seem appropriate
    at this very moment...

    Justin
    Feena...

    Feena
    Justin, you know... You're very special to me...

and i started crying manly tears.  i was only a dumb teenager then but it was still a pretty good moment in vidya gaym history.

 

[Dopples]

woman are horrible people, you know this.

j/k, but in all seriousness, there are plenty of exceptions to those cliches. No More Heroes comes to mind really.

 

[Marcus]

If I can make peace here...  Terra was useless in the sense that she went missing half way through the game... xD

EXACTLY.  Terra actually had more important things to do (protect a bunch of orphans from a terrorizing demon).  She basically lost everything; she didn't care about saving the stupid world or fighting Kefka.  All that mattered to her where the kids but she slowly realized that the only way to stop the world's problems were to use her incredible powers to defeat Kefka.  It's not Shakespear but this is how you write a good character.  You give them a problem, they logically react to the problem based on their personality, they grow and develop. 

 

[moog]

Haha, Marcus. I was about to mention Feena too, and what I liked about her was how her character development went from arrogant to nonchalant so fluently. She still fell into the love interest cliche, however. I would have liked it more if they would have shook hands after the final boss or whatever random way to part paths and then like 10 years later they would have ended the game with their meeting again, instead of HOLY SHIT THEY HAVE KIDS when Justin was like 15? (I think thats what happened.)

But overall you have a great point, and I wish developers would pull the wax out of their eyes and change this. Personally, I would love to see a black female character that has to guide an army or something and has a nonchalant attitude about things. If that happens I will personally find Shiggy Miyamoto and buttfuck him.

EXACTLY.  Terra actually had more important things to do (protect a bunch of orphans from a terrorizing demon).  She basically lost everything; she didn't care about saving the stupid world or fighting Kefka.  All that mattered to her where the kids but she slowly realized that the only way to stop the world's problems were to use her incredible powers to defeat Kefka.  It's not Shakespear but this is how you write a good character.  You give them a problem, they logically react to the problem based on their personality, they grow and develop.

But....how does that make her useless? If anything, wouldnt that would make her more structured?

Maybe I am missing something here.

 

[RyanAllen]

Haha, Marcus. I was about to mention Feena too, and what I liked about her was how her character development went from arrogant to nonchalant so fluently. She still fell into the love interest cliche, however. I would have liked it more if they would have shook hands after the final boss or whatever random way to part paths and then like 10 years later they would have ended the game with their meeting again, instead of HOLY SHIT THEY HAVE KIDS when Justin was like 15? (I think thats what happened.)

But overall you have a great point, and I wish developers would pull the wax out of their eyes and change this. Personally, I would love to see a black female character that has to guide an army or something and has a nonchalant attitude about things. If that happens I will personally find Shiggy Miyamoto and buttfuck him.

EXACTLY.  Terra actually had more important things to do (protect a bunch of orphans from a terrorizing demon).  She basically lost everything; she didn't care about saving the stupid world or fighting Kefka.  All that mattered to her where the kids but she slowly realized that the only way to stop the world's problems were to use her incredible powers to defeat Kefka.  It's not Shakespear but this is how you write a good character.  You give them a problem, they logically react to the problem based on their personality, they grow and develop.

But....how does that make her useless? If anything, wouldnt that would make her more structured?

Maybe I am missing something here.

Sorry for the off topic but how do you beat the last boss of Grandia? Ive been trying for a year... T_T

Also, after reading this, im gonna try and make the female characters in my game useful and different from the others! Woo! :D

 

[handsome lamb]

Jade from BG&E.

nuff said.

 

[Cruelty]

it seems like most (all?) of the games you're talking about where wimin are 'useless' are japanese rpgs.

i'm guessing this is mostly a jrpg thing. i can't really recall any western rpgs that perpetuate the stereotype. however, i also can't recall many western rpgs that don't just focus around one character, anyway.

 

[Marcus]

it seems like most (all?) of the games you're talking about where wimin are 'useless' are japanese rpgs.

i'm guessing this is mostly a jrpg thing. i can't really recall any western rpgs that perpetuate the stereotype. however, i also can't recall many western rpgs that don't just focus around one character, anyway.

Well, considering the Japanese produce most of the RPG's and Japan is a pretty sexist country (but unlike America, which is disgustingly sexist as well, they don't have "political correction" so it's much more open).  Most western games have some pretty strong females in terms of strength or force of personality but western games suffer from over sexualizing females.  You'll notice every western game woman has massive fucking honkers and a perky butt while Japanese game females are usually quiet, shy, and reserved.

Honestly, I think 90% of all video game writers are butt awful and everything they write is basically wish fulfillment.  It would be nice to have some female writers on the video game crew (a game written by CLAMP i would honestly play) but it's still a male dominated business and as long as it remains so then we'll see characters like this:

Miko Takihiko: 13 years old.  Likes to smell flowers and blush uncontrollably.  When she gets nervous she cleans.  She's the only human in the world that can get a dutch chocolate stain out of satin pants without fading the color.  Knows kickass magic and healing spells but refuses to fight because friendship and the power of love conquers all (but she'll apologize profusely and bow a lot if she tosses a fireball in your face).

 

[Chalupa]

Hehe, I was just talking about usless women in video-games with my friend...  The most usless video-game female;  Aerith.  If you get used to summoning in battle, kiss it good bye!

Stupid bitch had to go and killed by Sephiroth...

 

[OdioOmnus]

Aya Brea was a great character in Parasite Eve despite the limited dialogue...to be consequently sexualized in Parasite Eve II. Gratuitous shower scene, anyone?

 

[Cruelty]

i think there's probably some kind of line between females with exaggerated measurements, and foll-on sexist stereotypes.

i know you're somewhat unorthodox in your art style (marcus), so i don't know how you do things, but when i design a character, i'm going to make him/her look (what I think is) nice. there's nothing wrong with making a character, female or not, appealing. i wouldn't say it's entirely driven by sexism (tho i am a sexist prick).


and, btw, i agree aya was a great character. i never played parasite eve 2, tho.

 

[Marcus]

There's nothing wrong with making an appealing looking female but it's really really difficult to take them seriously when they're stomping through dungeons in bikini armor.  The writer wants to make them serious and deep but when they're double d's are spilling out the chainmail I'm too busy staring at the pixels than listening to the dialog.

Just like Ashe from Final Fantasy XII.  She's essentially a twin sister of Yuna but Ashe wears this stupidly short mini-skirt.  How am I supposed to take a fallen princess that wants to restore her kingdom to order seriously when every time she walks up a hill I can see her red panties?  Same goes for that bunny girl (although I lost all respect for her as a character as soon as I realized she was a BUNNY GIRL).  I wanted to like Penelo but she had a paper thin personality so it was a no go for me.

 

[Verdeni]

There's nothing wrong with making an appealing looking female but it's really really difficult to take them seriously when they're stomping through dungeons in bikini armor.

That's a very good point. I stopped and thought, but unless they have that, they're have a quite shallow and undeveloped personality. Why can't they give females diversity? I hate that stereotype.

Just like Ashe from Final Fantasy XII.  She's essentially a twin sister of Yuna but Ashe wears this stupidly short mini-skirt.  How am I supposed to take a fallen princess that wants to restore her kingdom to order seriously when every time she walks up a hill I can see her red panties?

I hated that about Ashe, her personality was perfect! Valiant and heroic without going overboard, i thought it was great. But then her outfit took away from that. Her skirt was too short and she had a belly shirt, i mean... You're either looking up her skirt, or DOWN her skirt. I t was sick. A girl can be just as easily attractive (Well, as attractive as a game character can get) without showing off the goods.

 

[Venetia]

For what it's worth, I totally agree with you. I'm so sick of the "badass female" stereotype as well as the "my only point in being here is to be a love interest to the main character" stereotypes.

There are a few exceptions to the rule, as people pointed out, but for the most part, I totally agree.

It seems like most video game writers get stuck at the b-b-b-b-oobs and then forget to write anything meaningful.

 

[Skyla Doragono]

Just like Ashe from Final Fantasy XII.  She's essentially a twin sister of Yuna but Ashe wears this stupidly short mini-skirt.  How am I supposed to take a fallen princess that wants to restore her kingdom to order seriously when every time she walks up a hill I can see her red panties?

As much as I love to agree with you there, you kind have to consider the fact that everyone from that country hardly wore much of anything.  I think the fact that the ENTIRE CITY WAS SURROUNDED by DESERT had something to do with it being BLEEDING HOT, but maybe I'm looking too far into it.  Suffice to say that the only characters that were really clothed were either from another country, NPC's that you really couldn't bring yourself to give a shit about, or people you ended up killing anyway.  Oh, and Balthier, but he looses points for being a Stetzer clone with slightly more personality.