Tipping

[second_crimson]

Oh I know that fast food involves more than flipping burgers, it's just an expression. (Taco Bell involves flipping tortillas, no?) In fact, not every fast food employee is tipped minimum wage either.

I agree that it is a stressful environment in the fast food industry, but I contend that as a server, a person has to not only take the order, but also deliver the food, often times make some of the order (soups and salads in many restaurants), check on the customer numerous times, get (and most times split) the bill, run credit card/get change, clean up the mess (not every restaurant has a busser on at all times) all while doing the same thing with numerous other tables at the same time (most times more than two or three). The volume may be less than fast food, but it involves more time with the customer, and you're bringing the restaurant to them, instead of them coming to the counter.

Were I able to tip fast food people, I probably would, but many places discourage it because of company policy. (I've had my tips rejected many times)

 

[Despain]

I agree that it is a stressful environment in the fast food industry, but I contend that as a server, a person has to not only take the order, but also deliver the food, often times make some of the order (soups and salads in many restaurants), check on the customer numerous times, get (and most times split) the bill, run credit card/get change, clean up the mess (not every restaurant has a busser on at all times) all while doing the same thing with numerous other tables at the same time (most times more than two or three).

why do you say that like it's not an EXACT DESCRIPTION of a fast food server

 

[kaze950]

It's just a cultural difference really.  You guys think it's your job to pay their wages and we think it's the restaurants job.

We also think its the restaurants job, but we don't want to fault the servers, because tips are factored into their wages.

 

[Venetia]

Vennie... Go to Morton's Steak House.  It's a really ritzy place that can easily be super expensive.  $60 cuts of beef, $80 lobsters, hell a backed potato can be $20 etc.  The service is magnificent as well, though a bit odd.  There isn't really a normal "menu", the waiter comes over with a cart and shows you what is being served, in a sort of display.  Speaks about it, tells you about it, even answers questions about it - then hands you a menu.

that's not that expensive

but it sounds good :3

 

[sixtyandaquarter]

that's with the coupon i get from the old office place i worked at who ordered there a lot

like 30% off "business" stuffs

 

[zmitchzz]

A good idea would be to watch the beginning of Reservoir Dogs. Lol, for anyone who's seen that.  :smile:

 

[DaithioDell]

I agree that it is a stressful environment in the fast food industry, but I contend that as a server, a person has to not only take the order, but also deliver the food, often times make some of the order (soups and salads in many restaurants), check on the customer numerous times, get (and most times split) the bill, run credit card/get change, clean up the mess (not every restaurant has a busser on at all times) all while doing the same thing with numerous other tables at the same time (most times more than two or three).

why do you say that like it's not an EXACT DESCRIPTION of a fast food server

You mean...you split checks in fast food restaurants (Yes sir, I have your five dollars here, and this credit card pays $21.75, and yours for $32.37, and we've taken off that soup you didn't like...)? You attend to the customer's every need? Fast food employees don't get tipped because anyone could do their job. For goodness' sake, you don't even have to speak the native language to perform 95% of fast food service. Sure, there are 'timers' going off...but at least you have a timer. Servers and bartenders don't. Full-service restaurants have the same expectations of speed and accuracy, except we often have much larger menus with much more complicated items. Fast food items are also constantly prepped: full-service restaurants are made by order and the prepping cannot possibly be as comprehensive. And no, 'hold the pickles' does not really qualify as an order substitution. Oh and fifty people an hour? Fast food restaurant customers come one order at a time. You don't have to worry if this person's food is taking too long, or if this person needs more water, or if this person who had their special cocktail wants another one. Yes you have to deal with the yelling and shouting and ridiculous selfishness customers display, but keep it in perspective: their being upset doesn't affect how much money you make at the end of the night. I've had a table of 50 by myself (admittedly on a night when we were down a couple servers), who all arrived at different times, all wanted the same attention, while I simultaneously had four other tables, who all had different timing to account for.

I understand you don't like being looked down on by restaurant employees, but there's a reason for it.

So far as tipping goes...minimum wage does not cover the work done for that job. 'Full-time' for a restaurant employee is 32 hours a week. So even at minimum wage, the average server is down a full day's work to someone else making that money. Several work more than that, but normally the good ones. Tips used to be an acronym in New York: To Insure Prompt (or proper, or perfect) Service. Now I'm not going to get too high up on my horse, I know restaurants more or less rip people off, especially with alcohol. You just tip, that's all there is to it. Servers have to tip their busser, foodrunner, hostess, bartender, and sometimes even cooks, and they tip based off their sales. So if you don't tip, that means the server is PAYING to work there. A server can't say 'oh sorry, I didn't get good tips tonight so I can't give you any", they'd get fired. 15% is a good, working number which allows everyone to make decent money. At 15% (in nicer restaurants), a server will usually end up walking with about 8%, all told. PLUS, the tax on tip money is taken out of our paychecques, so the tips are really how we live.

I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say most of you who think tipping is preposterous have not enjoyed the...experience of working in a restaurant. If you have, then not for long, and not in a good one. It is an odd situation, I'll grant you. Buschemi even makes some good points, I think. You have to look at the other side of the coin. It's our livelihood, not just an inconvenience. Saying we shouldn't get tips is like saying you shouldn't get any verbal praise for good work, or sick days off, or vacation time. (I know, retail, you guys get screwed too; but retail workers only have to get one thing right, however bitchy the customer is.)

@Venetia...someone didn't know how to make a Long Island? Or a Flaming Dr. Pepper? You'd better not come in to my bar, then, you'd be spoiled rotten. To wit, often a head chef isn't really doing that much during all but the fiercest dinner rushes. The line cooks will never be able to say hi, but the head or sous chef will almost always be available to come talk to you, or even apologize if he or she cares to. Don't worry about tipping cooks, though: they make way more than servers. Except for prep cooks, but they don't work very hard.

 

[Venetia]

Pardon,

it's not anyone's prerogative to sit there and say their job is the hardest. Any person could sit here and gripe and bitch and wail about having a hard job. There are difficult facets of EVERY job.

For instance, do you ever have to take your work home with you, and do it, unpaid, so you can keep your numbers up? No? I do. And it sucks balls. But I'm lucky to get a "gj" from my bosses, let alone a tip. Graphic artists are lucky to get a "howdoyado" half the time. My job itself isn't terribly hard, but I have lots of gripes about it, sure. Everyone does. If they didn't it wouldn't be called work, it'd be Super Crazy Fun Time.

The difficulty of a job doesn't matter. The fact that your job is harder or less hard than being a fast food worker mostly comes down to hurt feelings and comparison play, which is not good debating.

The fact of the matter is, I shouldn't have to pay you extra because your job is hard. I'm the easiest fucking customer ever. I don't complain, I order a single soda and barely drink it, I don't order substitutions or anything crazy, I pay my check in a timely manner, and I'm polite. I shouldn't have to pay YOU because other people are dicks sometimes. Why we SHOULD tip is so we get service that goes ABOVE AND BEYOND your normal faculties. That serves for anyone in customer service, really.

The problem is, society's norms have fallen out of line with that ideal, and greedy restaurateurs have fallen on the easy prey of the generous customer by paying their waiters a pittance.

Also, about the drinks: It's weird how few bartenders actually know what they're doing :/

 

[Despain]

it's not anyone's prerogative to sit there and say their job is the hardest.

i'm not saying my job is harder than his, i'm saying it's on the same level and it's INCREDIBLY RUDE of someone to assume otherwise just because i'm behind a counter.

You mean...you split checks in fast food restaurants (Yes sir, I have your five dollars here, and this credit card pays $21.75, and yours for $32.37, and we've taken off that soup you didn't like...)? You attend to the customer's every need?

yes i do that.

Fast food employees don't get tipped because anyone could do their job.

fast food employees don't get tipped because the culture doesn't deem it necessary.

anybody can work in fast food you're right. that doesn't mean it doesn't get stressful or difficult. and the exact same thing can be said about "Regular" waiters. anybody can do it. it's not really that difficult. they're both exactly the same kind of job: the kind of crap that kids take on as their summer job while paying for college.

ultimately you simply DONT UNDERSTAND what working at fast food is like. i could VERY EASILY land a job working as a regular waiter and do a damn decent job of it (i went for fast food over waiter because it's closer to my house). they're essentially the same thing, one is just far more CRAMPED.

i mean i sort of feel bad for you and your peers who put you into this mindset, because pretty much everything that you have said (except regarding tips) is familiar to me as well. so get off your high horse and understand that there is VERY LITTLE DIFFERENCE at all except atmosphere.

I understand you don't like being looked down on by restaurant employees, but there's a reason for it.

i frankly don't give a shit about being looked down upon by other people because i know the truth myself. i'm just trying to HELP YOU escape your narrowmindedness. which admittedly prbably is'nt entirely your fault and comes from your coworkers as well feeding you this crap

 

[Despain]

oh also i just realize you spelled paychecques so you're probably british or something and things might work differently over there. maybe fast food really is easier in the third world

 

[serrated_colon]

oh also i just realize you spelled paychecques so you're probably british or something and things might work differently over there. maybe fast food really is easier in the third world

no just less fat people to serve

In all seriousness, I don't tip unless the waiter has gone to EXTREME LENGTHS to assure good service, and even then i only tip around 5%. I usually only bring enough money for bus fare + food + shit i need(gam's), so fuck the waiters, they do their job and I'm paying for it through the food. If the resturant are paying them, it's THEIR PROBLEM as far as I'm concerned!

 

[DaithioDell]

The first time I see a cashier in fast food restaurant split a check between four people in varying amounts, I will actually beg your forgiveness. I swear it. I don't even see how it's possible with those outdated, light-up button things most fast food restaurants have (which, to be fair, makes the job pretty hard there are any complications). In all honesty, I don't mean to make it sound like I'm degrading you, specifically. Anyone who works hard and earns their keep is good in my books.

You probably should go get a job a server, you'd make more money. And, maybe see the difference. (Really, it's just table maintenence. That's 80% of a server's job, and something fast-food employees just don't do. Simple fact, mate.) The assumption you make, is that I've never worked fast food.

And y'know, basically, I'm behind a counter too. Mine has liquor, but still.

Allow me to simplify. You don't tip waiters and bartenders because they work harder than their pay implies. I agree, many people in any field work much harder than their level of pay reflects. The thing about being a server, is we are performing a task you could easily perform yourself. You could set your own table, and pour your own drinks, and not have anyone to complain to when it doesn't go exactly right. Servers, quite simply, wait on you, hand and foot, and fulfil your every request. The amount you pay the restaurant, before tip, covers the cost to provide the service, from the rent to bills to the cost of the food to the cost of the plate to the fee for laundering...the list is a lot longer. It's the same reason why you tip a concierge, or a bellboy. You could, with little difficulty, find your own way around a town and make reservations, or carry your own bags. But if you do not, you tip the person.

Consider this a plea, then. Even IF a server does an awful job, so long as they don't outright insult you or clearly neglect you, tip at least 10%. Otherwise, as I said, they are basically paying to wait on you.

And hey, the better you tip, and this seems common knowledge, the better your service will be the next time in. (The other reason why 10% is a good idea, is I've found servers tend to be a bit upset in the moment, but often don't attach the face if it's only once or twice. Any less, or any more often, and they'll remember you.)

(I'm Canadian, but I live in California. Since you asked.)

 

[Venetia]

Consider this a plea, then. Even IF a server does an awful job, so long as they don't outright insult you or clearly neglect you, tip at least 10%. Otherwise, as I said, they are basically paying to wait on you.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WAY.

I give tips, but 10% for crappy service is like seeing your kid crap on your sofa, then give him like $0.50 less of an allowance. FUCK NO. Hell, I think 10% is enough of a GOOD tip, let alone a tip for someone who is an asshat.

If people can't do their jobs right, then tough titty. Let them pay to work there. No skin off my nose. Maybe they should be better workers???

And hey, the better you tip, and this seems common knowledge, the better your service will be the next time in. (The other reason why 10% is a good idea, is I've found servers tend to be a bit upset in the moment, but often don't attach the face if it's only once or twice. Any less, or any more often, and they'll remember you.)

If they DO get upset about any less than 10%, and they didn't fucking shine my shoes/kiss my ass, they're fucking assholes. (I generally do 15% for *good* service however, but it RARELY exceeds that)
Sometimes people don't have quite enough to offer a tip. Sometimes they think you did a shitty job.
Tipping is a benefit, NOT a necessity. If your employer doesn't pay you enough and you don't get enough tips, FIND ANOTHER JOB. Enough waiters quit, and eventually employers will say, "Hmm. I should pay more."

 

[DaithioDell]

As I said...you've probably never worked food service.

Honestly, why should someone have to pay to serve you?

 

[kaze950]

Hell, I think 10% is enough of a GOOD tip, let alone a tip for someone who is an asshat.

Cheap...I've always thought of 20 percent as the norm, maybe 10-15 for bad service.


Tipping is a benefit, NOT a necessity. I

In theory, perhaps, but until there is some massive revolution in the food industry, tipping is essentially a factor into their pay. In order for there to be any change, they will either have to pass a law stating that a worker's salary doesn't include tips (so restaurants pay more than minimum wage) or people stop tipping, waiters leave, bosses get mad, e.t.c. Either way, someone gets pissed.

 

[Venetia]

Like I said, you don't like your job? You don't make enough at it? Find another one. I knew several waiters and bartenders in So. Cal and they made WAAYYYYY more money than I did, and my job at the time was just as hard.

I'm not going to feel bad for a person who voluntarily chose a position, knowing full well that they would get paid lousy if they didn't do their 100% best at all times.

Take salesmen. Salesmen make VERY LITTLE or NOTHING AT ALL aside from commission. Their salaries are nearly entirely dependent upon the quality and quantity of their work. So are you going to buy a car from a guy who doesn't know what he's doing or ignores what you say, just because you feel sorry for the fact that he won't meet his quota if you don't? Well if you do, and you're not getting the most smokin' deal of a lifetime, you're a moron. Same with restaurants.

When I walk into a restaurant, I expect to be served graciously, respectfully, and in a timely manner. If a server can't fulfill those 3 simple requirements, then like I said, tough fucking titty.

As I said...you've probably never worked food service.

Don't patronize me. I've had plenty of jobs that were just as, if not MORE, balls-to-the-walls and horrible. And I was paid next to minimum wage and I never got even a cent in tips. And yet every fucking day I walked in there with a smile on my face and I did the best fucking job I possibly could everyday because THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO. You're not hired to do half a job or act snotty when a customer is dissatisfied with your work. You're paid to do your job to the highest level of your capabilities.

If a server can't fucking do that, then fuck them.

 

[DaithioDell]

It's not a matter of being patronizing. If your living hasn't been based off tips, then it's more difficult to understand why those of us for whom it is to see a 'no-tip' attitude as deplorable.

EDIT. It seems to me, the reason why the debate is still going on, is some, even if the three regular standards are met, still tip poorly. It's not up to me to change your mind if a server really underperforms: it's as much incentive to do better as anything else when you recieve a bad tip. Saying you'll only give 5-10% when the server does what you think is a good job...that's a bit tough to take.

 

[kaze950]

I remember this episode of Third Rock from the Sun where the main alien (old guy, forgot name) did not understand the concept of tipping, and when it was explained, he tipped in this way:

He started with like 5 dollars in singles. For every mistake or bad thing the server did, he took away a dollar. For every exceptionally good thing, he added a dollar.

Perhaps we should all do that,

 

[Dissonance]

In theory, perhaps, but until there is some massive revolution in the food industry, tipping is essentially a factor into their pay. In order for there to be any change, they will either have to pass a law stating that a worker's salary doesn't include tips (so restaurants pay more than minimum wage) or people stop tipping, waiters leave, bosses get mad, e.t.c. Either way, someone gets pissed.

The revolution starts with one.

Like me :3

 

[Despain]

t's not a matter of being patronizing. If your living hasn't been based off tips, then it's more difficult to understand why those of us for whom it is to see a 'no-tip' attitude as deplorable.

then get a different job. maybe try fast food since you think it;s so laughably easy and carefree

I remember this episode of Third Rock from the Sun where the main alien (old guy, forgot name) did not understand the concept of tipping, and when it was explained, he tipped in this way:

He started with like 5 dollars in singles. For every mistake or bad thing the server did, he took away a dollar. For every exceptionally good thing, he added a dollar.

Perhaps we should all do that,

man that's actually totally badass.