The Flying Spaghetti Monster
- Thread starter Actingman00
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Um, an undefined omnipotent deity and a DEFINED omnipotent deity based specifically off of a meal that humans invented for the sheer sake of pointing it out are BOTH possible. However, the undefined omnipotent deity, encompassing the latter deity, is MORE possible. MUCH more so.
if you're suggesting i believe in the christian god, i dont. i dont think theres some all-knowing thing in the sky. I simply believe that the things in this universe are the will of something we don't (and can't) understand. what's so impossible about that?samboy":q19o7e53 said:
absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.
A neurologist can show you the whole experience of pain or happiness, describe the mechanics involved, top to bottom. Through analysis and examination these things are perfectly observable. You might as well say, "can you see the wind? No but you can feel it and see things blowing around in it. See, God is like the wind." It's a fallacious analogy.
The difference between God and pain, happiness, the wind, microbiology, electromagnetic radiation outside the visible spectrum, or anything else not observable to unaided human senses is that they can be observed, and their effects are documentable, falsifiable, and reproducible. At least as far as we know - perhaps God is scientifically provable and we just haven't isolated him yet. Until we do, though, you can't liken him to an actual existing thing that you simply can't observe with your basic faculties.
The difference between God and pain, happiness, the wind, microbiology, electromagnetic radiation outside the visible spectrum, or anything else not observable to unaided human senses is that they can be observed, and their effects are documentable, falsifiable, and reproducible. At least as far as we know - perhaps God is scientifically provable and we just haven't isolated him yet. Until we do, though, you can't liken him to an actual existing thing that you simply can't observe with your basic faculties.
I wish you had paid closer attention... -___-
Signs of God are obvious, like what makes things alive, what force makes things move, what controls gravity (not just mentioning earth), what made the complex structure of dna. What made the very thing that existed in the universe before it existed.
Signs of God are obvious, like what makes things alive, what force makes things move, what controls gravity (not just mentioning earth), what made the complex structure of dna. What made the very thing that existed in the universe before it existed.
You may "feel" that signs of God are obvious, but scientists are relatively confident that the laws of physics, the four basic forces, and the mechanics of biology operate rather well on their own, independent of any supernatural influence. You can argue their origin till your face is blue, but they don't seem to need God to go about their daily business.
If there was an "outside force" that affected the physical world, we should be able to see specific instances where no known physical force can explain an observed effect, and where that observed effect cannot be reproduced entirely by applying specific forces. That would be proof of an unknown, supernatural force which is not observable of itself, but must exist because it actually has an observable effect.
For instance, we know that gravity exists because when we let go a rock in the air it falls to the ground. We know that gravity is generated according to mass, because we can observe that objects of greater mass exhibit more gravity than objects of lesser masses. Nothing "controls" gravity, it is simply a weak attraction between objects with mass. Now, knowing what gravity is, where it comes from and how it operates we find no need for God to push rocks to the ground when we drop them, nor for him to guide the motion of planets around the Sun, nor to perform any other function of gravity; gravity works all by itself. If you were to pray to God to make a rock fall up, and it shot right into the sky, and we couldn't find any natural reason why that should happen, then we would have evidence of an outside force. Although we might not be able to figure out exactly what that force was from that instance alone, we could see that it existed based on its effect.
Once again you can argue the origin of gravity till you're blue in the face, but you don't have much ground to stand on if you say that it requires God to work. Just because it doesn't require God to work doesn't mean there isn't a God; if I were to write a computer program right now that I needed to perform the same exact function over and over and over again for all eternity I wouldn't make it require me to push a button every 5 minutes to keep it working. It also does not confirm the existence of God though, unfortunately.
If there was an "outside force" that affected the physical world, we should be able to see specific instances where no known physical force can explain an observed effect, and where that observed effect cannot be reproduced entirely by applying specific forces. That would be proof of an unknown, supernatural force which is not observable of itself, but must exist because it actually has an observable effect.
For instance, we know that gravity exists because when we let go a rock in the air it falls to the ground. We know that gravity is generated according to mass, because we can observe that objects of greater mass exhibit more gravity than objects of lesser masses. Nothing "controls" gravity, it is simply a weak attraction between objects with mass. Now, knowing what gravity is, where it comes from and how it operates we find no need for God to push rocks to the ground when we drop them, nor for him to guide the motion of planets around the Sun, nor to perform any other function of gravity; gravity works all by itself. If you were to pray to God to make a rock fall up, and it shot right into the sky, and we couldn't find any natural reason why that should happen, then we would have evidence of an outside force. Although we might not be able to figure out exactly what that force was from that instance alone, we could see that it existed based on its effect.
Once again you can argue the origin of gravity till you're blue in the face, but you don't have much ground to stand on if you say that it requires God to work. Just because it doesn't require God to work doesn't mean there isn't a God; if I were to write a computer program right now that I needed to perform the same exact function over and over and over again for all eternity I wouldn't make it require me to push a button every 5 minutes to keep it working. It also does not confirm the existence of God though, unfortunately.