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TES V: Skyrim *'*'BEARDS CONFIRMED'*'*

moxie

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skyrim.jpg

The upcoming game in the Elder Scrolls series, set in Skyrim! (aka the land of the Nords, big cool barbarian musclemen dudes)

Some of the neeaa~test confirmed features so far:
  • Drastically improved faces, in addition to customizable body types and facial hair
  • Dual wielding in addition to two handed & one handed styles from before
  • Overhauled character customization with less emphasis on skills and moreso on "perk" type abilities like in Fallout (this is still a maybe I think?)
  • Kids runnin' around in the cities and stuff
  • Recipes and crafting, ala blacksmithing/cooking/fletching
  • Improved third person veiw
  • Unique individual spell effects. Remember how in Oblivion a 5pt and 50pt fire spell looked the same? now there's different types and effects - fireball effect, cone(flamethrower) effect, etc.


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moxie

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Since Morrowind I've been a big fan of the Elder Scrolls series, Oblivion included. (apparently you're not allowed to like it if you liked morrowind??oh no my nerdcred)

I know it's setting yourself up for disappointment to fall for developer hype, but I'm really looking forward to it! My favorite stuff announced so far is the revamped character appearance & stat customization, I think. In Fallout you could have some really neat and individual characters thanks to perks and the like, whereas in Morrowind & Oblivion in particular you could just excel at everything.

The improved third person will be great too, because I actually like third person a lot but the janky animations in the previous games kind of kills it.

also: less ugly dough-faced people whoo!
 

mawk

Sponsor

I don't really have the Elder Scrolls chops to know what to expect for Skyrim. Morrowind was super fun once I found a mod to replace the models with full bodies on an actual skeleton instead of the floating Nintendo 64 polygons, but on the way I also found a mod that added Boots of Icarian Flight and for the rest of my playtime I just bounced around the world with total disregard for the main storyline. Oblivion was fun in its own way, but seemed pretty slapdash. Reading articles about it, I guess they really didn't get to incorporate a lot of the stuff they wanted to -- they had to scrap an entire AI engine basically because people wouldn't stop gardening on their area rugs or killing each other to swap items.

Now that they have two Fallouts under their belt, though, they're probably going to be a lot better prepared. They're dropping Oblivion's engine entirely and moving on to a new one, which should be nice -- all the ragdolling and floaty physics got really silly after a while.

In terms of features, it looks like they drew pretty heavily from what's been modded into Oblivion (except the face thing, I think there are literally no mods that fix the faces what the fuck!), which is basically the perfect way to go I think. Crafting was one of those things that I was really surprised to hear wasn't in Oblivion, since they practically toss calipers and leatherworking shears at you at every juncture. I'm a lot more excited about the new faces than I should be, but it is going to be so nice not having to hear Patrick Stewart's voice emanating from a boiled potato.

I hope they shape spellcrafting up a little. Like a lot of Oblivion, it was super freeform but they hadn't really tested it so you could break the game (like, even kill the big stomping obstacleboss you're not supposed to be able to kill) with a little strategy.

Plotwise, I know basically nothing about the Elder Scrolls series altogether, but I gotta wonder what they're going to do in terms of the Daedric princes now that Oblivion's main character took the place of one. Probably just going to allude to the event in NPC babble and not really show it besides that, honestly.
 

moxie

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The main questline has somethingorother to do with dragons, and like there's supposedly gonna be dragons trying to lay waste to whole towns and stuff - as cool as that sounds it seems a bit outlandish compared to the other stuff so I would take that with a grain of salt!

One thing I forgot to add to the OP is there's going to be abilities called Dragon Shouts which I guess you get as you progress through the main story. I think the backstory on them is that old nordic spellcasters are so awesome they basically cast spells by screaming which sounds neat!

also tbqh you're not missing much by spacing out on the questlines - the main strength of TES games is the huge, immersive world, and dialogue & such is unfortunately lacking.

edit; here is info on the shouts actually
 

Fusty

Sponsor

The Elder Scrolls series started at Oblivion for me, I've never played Morrowind or any of the games before that.
Oblivion was and is one of my favourite games, and I can only hope that this one will be even better.
2 things I'd love to see in this new one is better spellcasting (which they got covered according to the OP) and an improved archery system, I love playing as a stealthy archer but in Oblivion the sneak attacks done by bows barely did any damage, headshots didin't cause any extra damage and imo the firing speed was way to slow.
 
I am definitely excited for this. I watched Arena on youtube (until the guy ruined his videos by putting his face on there while I'm supposed to be watching the game. I don't want to know what he looks like!) I attempted Morrowind, which was really difficult for me. It took like 20 tries to kill some rats. Oblivion is the one I played inside and out. I enjoyed it a lot, and now that they are improving that one so much, it makes me excited. :D
 
I first got into TES when Morrowind and Oblivion came out on Steam. I haven't played Morrowind very much, so I've mostly just played Oblivion. The past couple of days I have also been fooling around with Arena and Daggerfall.


As for Oblivion lacking some things, the cool part is that Bethesda will readily admit that. Unlike Craptivision (I understand they are a publisher but they have pretty high influence over their developers) who will just say "lol you bought it anyway", Bethesda saw what was missing and I think pretty much everyone will agree they made big improvements for Fallout 3, even though it's technically the same engine. I'm pretty confident they will go even further, considering they are making a new engine for this one. It also sounds like they are going to totally soup up the NPC system, which is cool.

@mawk there are like a million face mods for oblivion lol. I dunno if any of them are good, but a lot of people have at least attempted them.
 
I have played both Oblivion and MorrowWind and while Bioware games have some cool features and stuff, I think I prefer Bestheda games over them. I mean, there was so much to do in those games, I just wish it wasn't super repetitive sometimes and not so many glitches; I got stuck as a vampire forever. :c

That being said, I am excited about the game. Im so glad they are re-doing the engine. I really hope they put more emphasis on NPCs and Story Line. I never actually beat Oblivion or Morrowwind, I just ran around and got to my highest level doing all the side quests and then getting bored because every cave and stuff looked the same.

Ill rant more later~
 
Well, what makes Oblivion still a great game even though more technologically sound games have come out is the mods. There's the unnofficial patch that fixes a whole lot of the bugs the official patches didn't. There's Unique Landscapes that makes some parts of the terrain not so bland and terrible lol. Natural Weather/Natural Vegetation is good. If you've got a decent machine, Qarl's Texture Pack III make the game so much nicer. Then finally, I force AA with my video card and up the contrast since the colors in oblivion are pretty bland.
 
I'm not sure how I feel about that :| The staggering in Oblivion was terrible, and they are adding more of it? They better make it less terrible. And then they are making it so you need a free hand so that you need more of a commitment to be a caster? Well then they better make it so magic doesn't suck.

Honestly, those are not the changes I was thinking they would make at all :|. I expected them to get rid of the goofy staggering that happens like when an opponent blocks you, it was so unrealistic and just a PITA. Maybe they will do it a new way that isn't so ridiculous.
 

mawk

Sponsor

From the phrasing, it sounds like staggering might not lock your controls down entirely like it did in Oblivion. That makes up nicely enough for the removal of my 100% legitimate strategy super strategy A+ (hit a thing and then run back out of range and then hit it again)

Basically combat was a ridiculous mess in Oblivion and thinking of Skyrim's in the same context is gonna mess you up a lot. They're even switching to a better engine, thankfully.
 
Yeah, so I've heard about the engine :P

But yeah, Oblivion's combat wasn't great, but I personally don't think it was a total mess. I think if they had balanced the magic, made weapon strength matter more, made the blocking not so ridiculous, you know fix things like that it could have been good. I mean, Oblivion combat is certainly a lot better than Arena or Daggerfall.

Them looking at fighting videos worries me, though. For one thing, you don't have control over your motion like you do in a real fight. For another thing, I don't want each individual monster you fight to take 15 minutes.
 
billie":3bcq1skt said:
new combat info

gonna kill some mammoths as a sneaky sneakthief that has shoutmagic :box: :box:
i uh.. i can't click your link. twice it froze my computer and i had to do a hard restart (thinking the first time was a fluke accident)..

i kinda want to take interest in these (style of) games, because i've got dark messiah: might & magic, and it's pretty cool. however, i did not like morrowind or oblivion 4 or w/e they call it, and i just recently got my hands on a copy of divinity 2: ego draconians.. kinda cool but the character runs like a fag..

anyway, what are they offering better in this new oblivion game? can anyone sum it up?
 

mawk

Sponsor

psiclone":1cnwb8r7 said:
i uh.. i can't click your link. twice it froze my computer and i had to do a hard restart (thinking the first time was a fluke accident)..
In game development, the visual improvements, non-player character AI tweaks, and new storytelling philosophies are all for naught if the base activity the player performs the most frequently is uninteresting or unrefined. In the case of an action role-playing game like The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, those activities are swinging swords, shooting arrows, or casting spells at the myriad bloodthirsty enemies rushing toward you in foreboding dungeons of Tamriel. Aware of the combat shortcomings and exploits players used in Oblivion, the developers at Bethesda Studios went back to the drawing board to forge a new direction for Skyrim.

“We wanted to make it more tactile in your hands,” game director Todd Howard says. “I think if you look at our previous stuff I sometimes equate it to fighting with chopsticks – you sit there and swing them in front of yourself.”

Bethesda’s solution is a new two-handed combat system that allows players to equip any weapon or spell to either one of their character’s free hands. This flexible platform opens up countless play styles – dual wielding, two-handed weapons, the classic sword and shield combo, ranged weapons, or even equipping two different spells. Switching between loadouts on the fly is made easier thanks to a new quick-select menu that allows you to “bookmark” all of your favorite spells, shouts, and weapons for easy access.

Taking Up The Blade
Repetition can be a game developer's worst enemy. As players move through the world slashing at enemies thousands of times, the gravity of the action dissipates to the point where it becomes as thoughtless an exercise as flipping a light switch. With Skyrim's combat system, Bethesda wants to restore the visceral nature of hand-to-hand combat. The first step? Changing the pace of the close quarters battles.

In the early stages of development, Bethesda watched fighting videos to study how people react during melee battles. The team found that most encounters featured more jostling and staggering than was present in past Elder Scrolls titles. Using the Havok Behavior animation system, the team is more accurately mimicking the imbalance prevalent in melee combat by adding staggering affects and camera shake. Don't expect button-mashing marathons where the attacker with a bigger life pool wins the war of attrition. If you're not careful on defense you may get knocked around, losing your balance and leaving yourself exposed for a damaging blow that can turn the tide of the battle. Knowing when to block, when to strike, and when to stand your ground is key to prevailing in combat.

“There's a brutality to [the combat] both in the flavor of the world, and one of you is going to die,” Howard explains. “I think you get very used the idea that enemies are all there for you to mow through, but it doesn't seem like someone's life is going to end. We're trying to get that across.”

Nothing drives this brutality home more than the introduction of special kill animations. Depending on your weapon, the enemy, and the fight conditions, your hero may execute a devastating finishing move that extinguishes enemies with a stylistic flourish. “You end up doing it a lot in the game, and there has to be an energy and a joy to it,” Howard says.

As with Oblivion, players have several options for melee combat. Your warrior can equip swords, shields, maces, axes, or two-handed weapons. Specializing in a particular weapon is the best way to go, as it gives you the opportunity to improve your attacking skills with special perks. For instance, the sword perk increases your chances of landing a critical strike, the axe perk punishes enemies with residual bleeding damage after each blow, and the mace perk ignores armor on your enemies to land more powerful strikes.

A good offense must be accompanied by a good defense. To make defending a less passive activity, Bethesda has switched to a timing based blocking system that requires players to actively raise their shields to take the brunt of the attack. If you hold down the block button, your character will attempt to execute a bash move. If you catch a bandit off guard with the bash while he's attacking, it knocks him back and exposes him to a counter or power attack. Players can block and bash with two-handed weapons as well, but it isn't as effective as the shield. Warriors who prefer the sword-and-shield approach can increase their defensive capabilities with shield perks that give them elemental protection from spells.

Bethesda also smartly changed the pace at which characters backpedal, which removes the strike-and-flee tactic frequently employed in Oblivion. In Skyrim you can't bob and weave like a medieval Muhammad Ali as you could in Oblivion. Players can still dodge attacks from slower enemies like frost trolls, but don’t expect to backpedal out of harms way against charging enemies. If you want to flee, you must turn your back to the enemy and hit the sprint button, leaving you exposed to an attack as you high tail it to safety.

Conjuring Better Spell Casting
Keeping in line with the philosophy of making the combat more tactile, Bethesda took inspiration for its spell casting from an unlikely source in Irrational Games' BioShock. Fighting his way through the city of Rapture, Howard was impressed with how Ken Levine's team visualized the power of the plasmids in your hands. They're adopting a similar approach for Skyrim.

“Before when we had magic, it never felt to us like you were actually doing it,” Howard admits. “It was a separate button, it flew out of your fist, and you could have a shield in your hand or a two handed-weapon – you could do it with anything.”

In Oblivion spells were cast with a face button, which allowed you to equip traditional weapons for melee combat and deftly cast spells between swings. By forcing players to equip a spell with one of their hands, players must make more of a commitment to learning the arcane arts. The ability to equip two different spells on your left and right hand raises the question – can you combine more than one spell? “We're not talking about that,” Howard says with a smile. “We're not sure. We'd like to; it'd be awesome.”

Even if you can't combine spells, magicka students will have no shortage of options, with over 85 spells divided into five schools of magic – destruction, restoration, illusion, alteration, and conjuration. Longtime Elder Scrolls fans may notice that the school of mysticism is absent. That's an intentional move on Bethesda's part. “It always felt like the magical school of mysticism – isn't that redundant?” Howard says. The spells formerly housed under the domain of mysticism have been moved to other schools of magic.

One of the more alluring changes to the spellcasting in Skyrim is how you can employ spells in different ways. For instance, you could blast enemies with a flame ball from afar, hold the button down to wield the spell like a flame thrower, place a rune on the ground to create an environmental trap that spontaneously combusts when an enemy steps on it, or equip the spell with both hands to deliver high damage fireball attacks that drain your magicka reserves quickly. The shock and frost spells give players an equal amount of flexibility.

The Havok Behavior technology gives the spells more visual flair than we've seen in past Elder Scrolls games as well. If you cast a frost spell, you'll see the effects on the enemy's skin. If you're wielding the flame spell like a flame thrower, the environment will catch fire for a short while and burn anything that comes into contact with it.

More so than in Oblivion, Skyrim’s new magic system also gives players legitimate benefits to using one attacking spell over the other. Fire deals the highest amount of damage, lighting drains the enemy’s magicka, and frost drains stamina and slows down enemies physically. This gives players more incentive to use particular spells against specific enemies. Why shoot fireballs at a wizard when you can simultaneously drain his heath and magicka with a shock spell? “There’s a gaminess to it that we didn’t really have before,” Howard says.

If you come face to face with another wizard, you’ll want to keep an attacking spell in one hand and improve your defense by equipping a ward spell in the other. Suddenly, magic duels become much more interesting, as you must attack at the opportune time, use the ward as a shield when your opponent is casting spells your way, and manage your magicka level by consuming potions.

Dealing Damage From The Shadows
Magicians and warriors aren’t the only play styles enjoying the benefit of combat enhancements. If you prefer to do your killing from afar with a bow and arrow or assassinating enemies from the shadows, Bethesda has some improvements in store for you as well.

Ranged weapons could be effective in Oblivion once you improved your skill level, but you had to pierce enemies with several arrows to take them down. After playing an Oblivion mod that turned the bow and arrow into a formidable weapon capable of one-hit kills, Bethesda decided to adopt that approach. It now takes a lot longer to get off a shot, but the arrows are much more powerful than before.

As in Oblivion, you can zoom to aim, and the longer you keep the bow drawn the more powerful your shot will be. Unlike Oblivion, the arrows now violently impact enemies with a satisfying thud. To keep players from coasting through the world plucking enemies from afar, Bethesda has significantly altered the arrow economy to make them a valuable but limited option. You won't be rolling into combat stacked with 50 Daedric arrows anymore. Though you don't have much defense when using the bow and arrow, if an enemy gets too close for comfort you can still execute a bash move, which knocks your foe off balance and gives you time to create distance between you and your target.

Stealth basically works the same as it did in Oblivion, but Bethesda has slightly altered what happens once enemies detect your presence. Now when NPCs think they see or heard something, they go into an alert state. Characters with a higher sneak skill will have more time to duck back around the corner or find sanctuary in the shadows. This new system eliminates the sudden attacks that sometimes caught players off guard in Oblivion.

Once you successfully sneak up behind an unsuspecting victim, you can unleash a deadly blow with the dagger, an almost useless weapon in previous Elder Scrolls games that is receiving a major boost in Skyrim. “Now when you sneak up behind guys, the dagger does something like 10x damage,” Howard says. “I don’t know if we’re going to keep that, but you feel like you should be killing the guy if you’ve gotten that close and you have a dagger.”

Though the dagger is still considered a one-handed weapon skill, the perks for the weapon are housed under the stealth banner.

The Dragonborn Prophecy Fulfilled
As the Dragonborn, players can wield the dangerous dragon shouts during battle as well. The shouts may have magical properties, like the ability to slow time or call a dragon to your aid, but they are different than magic in that every character can employ them regardless of their spell casting skills. If you want to learn more about this supplemental power, read our in-depth discussion here.

Binding all of these improvement together into a cohesive system, Bethesda's reinvigorated Elder Scrolls combat looks to be taking a large step forward.

this website probably shouldn't be crashing your computer though!
 

Fusty

Sponsor

Pretty much all of the things in that link sound pretty awesome :eek:
I am still having doubts about whether the bow & arrow will be of any use though, the fact that they've increased the damage you can do with it is great but this:
It now takes a lot longer to get off a shot
and this:
Bethesda has significantly altered the arrow economy
doesn't sound too good..
 

moxie

Sponsor

Ranged weapon concerns is one of the most-brought up issues with the last game, and how you have to literally use 100+ arrows to down an equal-level creature by the game - they're taking it pretty seriously and significantly increasing arrow damage, so I wouldn't worry there. :>

Hopefully this'll make stealthy and ranged characters more viable, because that's always been my favorite type. Although they might feel a bit out-of-place in Skyrim, land of crazed axe-wielding barbarians and hairy musclebeasts.
 

moxie

Sponsor

You're definitely not, because the last game had absolutely hideous hair. :/

I know long hair is hard to model well, so if we don't get that (and how do you not have long flowing hair in the land of the Nords, by golly?) I'm hoping for some cute updos instead of the lame pseudo-pompadours and stuff.
 

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