Zekallinos
Sponsor
Not everybody has enough no-life to write a huge post like me :smile:.
- Thread starter Reives
- Start date
Why would I play from the beginning if (and its been noted) this is the best, most fluent battle system in the series and its glitchy as heck. Not to mention I have to probably get like 5 chapters in the game before I get to battle which is like 5 or 6 hours.
Tut, good luck with the game.
. . . Huh? Actually, the beginning now has more actual game-play than any other chapters, including battles - Chapter 9's battles are as half-assed as Chapter 3's normal spam battles, and they are still in need of much tuning. (Lol @ "best most fluent battle system"; what?.) I have no idea where you got that notion from.
The whole point of the revamp to the intro and chapter 1 was to introduce a glance at the future game-play in the finished version of Quintessence and get some feedback on its directions, as prior to this I have always brushed game-play aside for the sake of production progress. If you want to try the existing game-play for now, start from the beginning.
The whole point of the revamp to the intro and chapter 1 was to introduce a glance at the future game-play in the finished version of Quintessence and get some feedback on its directions, as prior to this I have always brushed game-play aside for the sake of production progress. If you want to try the existing game-play for now, start from the beginning.
Reives":1s3zmumj said:
the best, <-- *pause* most fluent
You removed the comma which changes the layout of the sentence.. of course you knew that already. Way to change the subject though. I've noticed the whole; "I can take good criticism, but as soon as someone points out obvious flaws and glitches I will change the subject frequently." vibe. It's <--(It has, not it is. This is to prevent you from changing the subject) been noted that the battles in this chapter are more fluent than the battles in previous. I also do not wish to sit through unnecessary cutscenes just to battle a few times. There is a difference between a game, and a DVD-esque fan fiction.. if it can even be called that. That is going by the assumption that this 'game' was inspired by elfen lied. Don't get me wrong the cutscenes and music are some of the best -english- RM maker games around, the music is okay I suppose.
That's moot, the game is a role playing game.
You're role playing as the protagonists of Q, you have levels, you have restoratives. I understand "I'll add that later, bit" yet, the first impression is always the best one.
Blaredose":3q9xut7m said:
Sigh, blare, you're the one changing the subject by going through a lesson of grammar. Besides Q-tbv has won the Misao for best music, so it can't just be "okay". Also, you apparently did not pay attention to Reives last post. He re-did the intro, Chapter 1, and a bit of Chapter 2 for the purpose of adding game-play. Your "first impression" was solely based on your leap ahead to Chapter 9. If you had actually played the first 8, you might have got something. Most people know that Chapter 9 was not as great as his other previous chapters. In my opinion Chapter 7 and 8 were spectacular and outshine Chapter 9 easily.
Anyway, Reives, nice job on the re-do. I miss the old song, Illusion, but I like this new oldish feeling. It sort of reminds me of Temple of Time from LoZ. That first puzzle got me a bit stuck, but I noticed the lights and got it. The battles were complex and fun at the same time. It took me longer to kill the golems then it did any thing else in the whole game (besides the theif).
As for Chapter 9, you really should try and add more game-play to it. I too have noticed the glitches in the bear battle. It gets annoying sometimes, especially when the Bear suddenly rampages to you when I'm not even in a straight line with him. The bee thing sorta intrigued me, and I think you should definitely make it into a mini-game. (Keep the little honey image on the side, that was cool)
P.S. Love the fanart by Phoenix.
As for Chapter 9, you really should try and add more game-play to it. I too have noticed the glitches in the bear battle. It gets annoying sometimes, especially when the Bear suddenly rampages to you when I'm not even in a straight line with him. The bee thing sorta intrigued me, and I think you should definitely make it into a mini-game. (Keep the little honey image on the side, that was cool)
P.S. Love the fanart by Phoenix.
Anonymous
Guest
Ravenias responding so defenseively to legitimate criticism makes you looks like a stupid fanboy and reflects very poorly on Reives. I realize you like the game a lot but if the creator has to distance themselves from it and let it be criticized then so do the fans.
Don't worry, Reives is a big boy. I'm sure he can handle people pointing out problems with his games.
And I can understand, sortof, not wanting to start at the beginning. The story starts off painfully slowly. Usually games have gameplay to offset that but since it's mostly just 'walk around' with not much new to learn it makes the beginning a chore because the story hasn't started to pick up and there's nothing to do while you're waiting for the story to pick up. Hell, I'd personally recommend starting it some chapters in and then going back to chapter 1 when you care about the characters more. I wish I'd done that in the first place.
Don't worry, Reives is a big boy. I'm sure he can handle people pointing out problems with his games.
And I can understand, sortof, not wanting to start at the beginning. The story starts off painfully slowly. Usually games have gameplay to offset that but since it's mostly just 'walk around' with not much new to learn it makes the beginning a chore because the story hasn't started to pick up and there's nothing to do while you're waiting for the story to pick up. Hell, I'd personally recommend starting it some chapters in and then going back to chapter 1 when you care about the characters more. I wish I'd done that in the first place.
With all due respect Blare, you are seriously confusing me to no end.Blaredose":37n7i40a said:
First of all, I agree that the first expression is always the most important. But now, would a player's first impression with it be at the beginning or for some reason at chapter 9 up front? Please say beginning.
Of course there is more game-play needed, and battles needs debugging (the chapter 9 ones especially) - those are facts and I acknowledge them (what do you think this revamp was for?). If it were something new, I may go about writing a lengthy post just in honor of the help, as I did when it brought up before. But it would be rather pretentious to do that every time, wouldn't it? What do you want me to say? I remade chapters in light of that very single point of game-play for God's sake, what do you want me to do?
I missed a comma in the lay out of the sentence to what? From "The best, most fluent", to "the best most fluent" - ? Either way I disagree.
I wouldn't be surprised if you were a dup account of someone attempting to mess with me, heheh.
I appreciate ya here Berry, but really, the frustration in this case I've just developed is not about the criticism. It is an age-old criticism that I accept by default as it is simply a fact, and I even went out of my planned schedule to physically address it this release as a first step for the game-play department, because I very much agree that game-play has to take the game off from the beginning.berrybliss":35pum4i2 said:
Now imagine this. You just worked hard on remaking the intro, chapter 1 and the like in light of that very same criticism, and released it. Now someone comes along and for no reason at all, plays your game starting from the very last chapter that was released (note that this is still a story-based project pre-completion) and ignores the beginning completely, and then tells you that "first impression is important" - What the hell?
To those who want to talk about this subject and make any accusations, please actually read through the posts leading up to it, rather than taking the assumption that "Hey look a critic, any disagreements with him on any matter must be from an ignorant maker/fanboy."
No one had any problems with his actual criticism. No kidding it's lacking game-play, that's a straight out fact that I have always nodded against and even took actual action against. Beside that, would it not annoy one to an extent if someone were to start his/her game from the last/middle chapter and call it a first impression?
No one had any problems with his actual criticism. No kidding it's lacking game-play, that's a straight out fact that I have always nodded against and even took actual action against. Beside that, would it not annoy one to an extent if someone were to start his/her game from the last/middle chapter and call it a first impression?
Reives, berry wasn't talking to you. She was trying to explain that fanboyism isn't being helpful to anybody. When fanboys of your game come to its "defense" against sound criticism, then it makes them look like idiots for trying to get involved at all. This isn't a forum for players, this is a forum for creators. If you want your fans to sit back and stroke your dick, then they can do that on your own forums. Here, posts with feedback take priority over posts that are nothing but praise. No matter what some idiots will say, no game is perfect.
"For no reason at all" is just incredibly arrogant. You should be glad that he took the time to play your game at all. This entire paragraph just reeks of conceit.
If you release your game in chapters, then expect that people will play them out of order. Especially when you say -- repeatedly within this thread -- that specific chapters are better than others, or specific chapters have gameplay while others don't. When presented with "this chapter has gameplay but this chapter is just an extended flashback cutscene", then you can be pretty certain that I'm going to pick one over the other, regardless of the order that you created them. This is an inherent flaw in your marketing and production strategy.
First impression is important, and releasing things in chapters gives you, the creator, less control over what the player sees first. I don't get what your problem is.
"For no reason at all" is just incredibly arrogant. You should be glad that he took the time to play your game at all. This entire paragraph just reeks of conceit.
If you release your game in chapters, then expect that people will play them out of order. Especially when you say -- repeatedly within this thread -- that specific chapters are better than others, or specific chapters have gameplay while others don't. When presented with "this chapter has gameplay but this chapter is just an extended flashback cutscene", then you can be pretty certain that I'm going to pick one over the other, regardless of the order that you created them. This is an inherent flaw in your marketing and production strategy.
First impression is important, and releasing things in chapters gives you, the creator, less control over what the player sees first. I don't get what your problem is.
Glad you're back with a more constructive post instead.
First of all, I have never disagreed with that certain chapters need more game-play over the other, and that they need fixing.
Now, of course it's physically possible to start from the middle, but the reason is, why? As for the first impression, then, is one supposed to build the game as if one can start from anywhere? In a game, perhaps, but not in a role-playing-game - physical possibility does not confirm it as reasonable. If the actual game-play is at the beginning rather than at that specific chapter, and I acknowledge the need for insertion into that chapter, and then redirects him in such a way that tells him, "If you want to try the game-play for now, start from the beginning"; what am I doing wrong?
P.S. Bbl
First of all, I have never disagreed with that certain chapters need more game-play over the other, and that they need fixing.
Now, of course it's physically possible to start from the middle, but the reason is, why? As for the first impression, then, is one supposed to build the game as if one can start from anywhere? In a game, perhaps, but not in a role-playing-game - physical possibility does not confirm it as reasonable. If the actual game-play is at the beginning rather than at that specific chapter, and I acknowledge the need for insertion into that chapter, and then redirects him in such a way that tells him, "If you want to try the game-play for now, start from the beginning"; what am I doing wrong?
P.S. Bbl
Lusus Naturae
Member
Joe Sixpack (awesome name, by the way), I don' know if I'd bother here. This is the worst I've seen the drama get here (and believe me, I've seen little drama this great in my mom's soap operas--I had a horrible childhood, don't ask). But really, even if a staff member steps in and cracks down with the mighty Hammer of Justice, it seems like it just keeps on going in its own weird way. I guess what I'm trying to say is...
Quintessence: Serious business.
Quintessence: Serious business.
I answered this already.
Especially when you say -- repeatedly within this thread -- that specific chapters are better than others, or specific chapters have gameplay while others don't. When presented with "this chapter has gameplay but this chapter is just an extended flashback cutscene", then you can be pretty certain that I'm going to pick one over the other, regardless of the order that you created them.
Your problem is, apparently, that you have no idea how to properly balance gameplay with story. This is made far more evident when you don't know how to properly structure a story on its own.
So that's where we're miscommunicating. By your logic it would be reasonable if he jumped to a chapter that is actually worth it, but it's not. My answer is, and was, the beginning is what is better in both game-play and others. So one jumps to say, chapter 9, where the gameplay has yet to be added, and solely rides on story. So by jumping, you've foregone the story, you've foregone the game-play, what else is there? And after acknowledging the need for game-play, I addressed him to start from the beginning, where there actually is some of the things he might want to see.
My beliefs on game-making with a long term goal is to focus fire and trail a decent progress, and add in meat thereafter. Due to the need to address the criticisms on game-play, I have did the meat-adding to Chapter 1 and the intro as an attempt to show what is to be the finished product of all chapters. This has been brought up countless times, I have no idea why it is never absorbed.
@Lusus:
Heheh, not quite.
My beliefs on game-making with a long term goal is to focus fire and trail a decent progress, and add in meat thereafter. Due to the need to address the criticisms on game-play, I have did the meat-adding to Chapter 1 and the intro as an attempt to show what is to be the finished product of all chapters. This has been brought up countless times, I have no idea why it is never absorbed.
@Lusus:
Heheh, not quite.
So? It's still possible, and your method of releasing the game in chapters allows this. It would be different if he exploited a game glitch and ended up skipping the first three hours. But he did absolutely nothing wrong. This is a flaw in your methods, and it's up to you to accept his criticism as 100% valid, because he did absolutely nothing to invalidate it.
I'm having a hard time understanding this metaphor. Usually, the "meat" of something is its core, its essence, and the bulk of its structure. So you're telling me that your method is just to "get something made" and then go back and give it meaning, purpose and structure?
Solid strategy!
It was never about disagreeing with him on his criticism. I have acknowledged his criticism (as I have for all the past times that it has been brought up), and I have physically acted on it with this release.
My intended strategy is to make a linear progression, and in a RPG, that is the story. After the completion progressive-wise, game-play can be added with relative ease. The beginning is an example of what I attempted with the insertions.
My intended strategy is to make a linear progression, and in a RPG, that is the story. After the completion progressive-wise, game-play can be added with relative ease. The beginning is an example of what I attempted with the insertions.
Honestly, what exactly are you accusing me of? For acknowledging his criticism (the very same one that I worked hard on to actually physically address beyond mere words of acknowledgment just this release a week ago), and then simply asking him to start from the beginning if he were to want to see some game-play for the moment?
Reives":2qpzi0dx said:
Yes, you're just repeating yourself at this point. You've said this a bunch of times. I'm not saying that you're shrugging off criticism. In fact, in the beginning, it was directed at your fanboys who feel the need to come in and defend you against anything remotely negative. Following that, you were making the claim that Blaredose was wrong in playing your games out of order, which I feel is an incredibly ignorant and arrogant claim, and I supported that quite nicely and clearly. Two separate issues.
So, you make a gigantic cutscene, release it, and then go back and add little bits of gameplay here and there? This is a big problem. I think that before you start something like this, you need to takea step back and decide what it is. In other words, is this a game? If it's a game, then the gameplay element should come first. If your intention all along was to just create a story, then why did you bother adding gameplay at all? You could have released this as a visual novel, similar to Nadir's Canon and those other games, which became incredibly popular.
My biggest criticism of the game at this point is that you don't know what it is. In what medium are you trying to tell this story? Pick something and stick with it.
This level of criticism is asking you to step back and look at your entire game as a whole, and completely rethink it from the ground up. I seriously doubt that you're prepared to do something like that. But that type of revision is necessary for you to fix the most glaring issues of the project. If you really want to better yourself, then this is the path to take. If rampant dickstroking from the multitude of fanboys is enough for you, however, then by all means disregard my suggestions.