PSP Breakthrough (ps1 emulation, custom firmware, etc.)

[Sketch]

Myno has a point...the only way (currently) to play (so far there are only 6 or so released titles) PS1 games on the PSP is to have a PS3...and by the end of the year? I'd sure hope I wouldn't have to wait another 12 months to be able to directly get at the PS1 games on my PSP without having to drop around 700 bucks for a PS3...

 

[arcthemonkey]

I think they announced that the firmware allowing the PSP to connect to the PSN will be in March :P

 

[Sketch]

it's still a rather long time to wait, IMO...you can get PSP demos directly right now, so I dunno why the huge wait time (5 months from when the PS3 came out to March)...but then, Sony has never been very bright.

 

[xmcdohlx]

sony became $ony in the recent years, miss good ol' SONY on the ps2 days n stuff

 

[sandgolem]

Sony was always after $, don't know why you think it changed after the PS2.

because you write crap without actually saying crap.

You wrote more than I did.

Also, Sketch and Marcas, please think before giving legal advice or your interpretations of laws on the internet. Your posts have the wordly equivalent of someone walking into a police office and soliciting officers for prostitution and believing it's not a crime, in a place where prostitution is illegal, claiming prostitution is legal in Canada (even though solicitation is not). However, there are some good yet somewhat misguided points and arguments contained within them. Try to remember that laws are different everywhere before claiming something is "perfectly legal" because of loopholes that may exist in some areas.

Should anyone actually be interested in knowing more about these matters, I'd encourage you to familiarize yourselves with the related laws of your country, subsections and international laws that your country subscribes to that may apply. Google is a great place to start when trying to locate official resources. Never rely on internet people or sites for legal advice, even if those people practice the related laws, unless they are 100% familiar with the laws that you would be under and a source that you trust.

 

[Marcus]

You wrote more than I did.

Because I was making fun of you.

Seriously man, just stop. You told us to use the internet to search for our country's copyright laws yet turn around and tell us not to trust websites. You hide your own ignorance behind technical mumbo jumbo and sounding intelligent isn't the same as actually being intelligent.

I have yet discovered a country that doesn't allow you to use a commercial product such as Alchohol 120% to rip an image of your own legally owned cd's for backup purposes. Ripping software such as Nero and Alchohol would not exist if it were illegal. No matter how you try to deny it, there is no international law that says "You cannot rip your own cd's." If there is, I want to know it's name because it's an ass backwards country.

 

[arcthemonkey]

This doesn't need to be turn into a fight people, but let me say this -

When you buy software or what have you, you are typically purchasing a license of use. In order for your license to be valid, you are required to adhere to the EULA. If your EULA or similar statement or agreement states that you cannot make backups lest your license be invalid it doesn't matter what your counties copyright laws are, your license is invalid and it officially becomes piracy.

A quick look at Titan Quest for PC's EULA shows no specific condemnation of making backups, only stating that if you give the game to someone else, you aren't allowed to keep a copy.

However, the LIMITED SOFTWARE WARRENTY AND LICENSE AGREEMENT for Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories for PSP gives you license to ONE copy. If you make a backup, it is not licensed to you (unless you destroy the original) and is illegal. It goes on to state clearly that you are not to make copies of the game, nor are you allowed to back it up to your hard-drive.

Remember, you don't own the software, you own a single license to use it. If that license is revoked you own nothing at all and have no rights to the software.

What I'm saying is that due to the nature of software licenses, if the license agreement says you can't back it up, then you simply cannot back it up.

In fact, license agreements typically give you rights that would otherwise be prohibited by copyright and trademark laws. U.S. copyright does allow for you to make copies of software, (http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#117) but if you agree to a license agreement that states otherwise, then you wave that right. Also, please note the wording of the law:

... that such new copy or adaptation is for archival purposes only...

This means that, EULA not withstanding, you can make a copy but you may not use that copy unless the original disk or whatever is destroyed. .

Bottom line? Contracts can supercede copyright law. If it says you may make backups in the EULA or Software Agreement, then you may, but only in the capacity stated in said agreement. If the Eula or Software Agreement says you may not make copies, then you may not. If it doesn't say anything about it, then you may archive it.

Simple as that, really.

 

[xmcdohlx]

y the hell argue about laws? ppl will do it anyway and it's not like a sony agent will come down to ur house n send u to jail. i'm not saying you should do it, it's entirely up to you, your moral and honesty.

I, personally, dont give a damn, and im ok with those that are all correct n stuff, but stop arguing against those that do piracy stuff, you cant stop it. it will never end, period. and im not being pessimist, its just way too late to stop it.

 

[Marcus]

Well thanks for actually providing some sources, Arc, instead of telling me I'm instantly wrong and I should look it up on the internet which also happens to be a poor place to find information or some shit like that.

 

[Minkoff]

EULAs are bullshit. You aren't given the opportunity to read a game's EULA before you buy it, and in almost all cases you are never even presented with the EULA unless you look (like in the back of a manual). How does that have any legal standing? Like, if I sell a sealed book and on the inside of the back cover write "by buying this book, you agree to pay me $100,000,000," the buyer can't possibly have to adhere to that, right? How is that any different than a game that tells me to give up my right to back it up?

Also, if buying a game means I'm buying a license to it as opposed to the physical media, then why do I need to pay another ~$50 if it gets lost or damaged (since EULAs tell me I can't make backups)? Why is downloading it copyright infringement if I already own the license to it?

Seriously, it's fucking stupid.

 

[Marcus]

It is ridiculous which is why I back them up anyways. I'm not on the moral level to whore my copies out on the internet but I don't care what the law says, anything I pay with my money is mine and I'll burn the thing if I want to.

So yea, I guess I'm a pirate... a pirate that doesn't steal or trade away his material but backing it up makes me a pirate either way.

 

[arcthemonkey]

Minkoff, you own the physical media in addition to a license to use the content of said media.

As for how legally binding a EULA is, that really depends on where you are.

 

[Minkoff]

The point applies whether I'm buying the physical media or not I think. It's still a little insane for a company to expect me to buy something, NOT BACK IT UP, and then buy it again if there's a problem.

 

[Anaryu]

This doesn't need to be turn into a fight people, but let me say this -

When you buy software or what have you, you are typically purchasing a license of use. In order for your license to be valid, you are required to adhere to the EULA. If your EULA or similar statement or agreement states that you cannot make backups lest your license be invalid it doesn't matter what your counties copyright laws are, your license is invalid and it officially becomes piracy.

A quick look at Titan Quest for PC's EULA shows no specific condemnation of making backups, only stating that if you give the game to someone else, you aren't allowed to keep a copy.

However, the LIMITED SOFTWARE WARRENTY AND LICENSE AGREEMENT for Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories for PSP gives you license to ONE copy. If you make a backup, it is not licensed to you (unless you destroy the original) and is illegal. It goes on to state clearly that you are not to make copies of the game, nor are you allowed to back it up to your hard-drive.

Remember, you don't own the software, you own a single license to use it. If that license is revoked you own nothing at all and have no rights to the software.

What I'm saying is that due to the nature of software licenses, if the license agreement says you can't back it up, then you simply cannot back it up.

In fact, license agreements typically give you rights that would otherwise be prohibited by copyright and trademark laws. U.S. copyright does allow for you to make copies of software, (http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#117) but if you agree to a license agreement that states otherwise, then you wave that right. Also, please note the wording of the law:

This means that, EULA not withstanding, you can make a copy but you may not use that copy unless the original disk or whatever is destroyed. .

Bottom line? Contracts can supercede copyright law. If it says you may make backups in the EULA or Software Agreement, then you may, but only in the capacity stated in said agreement. If the Eula or Software Agreement says you may not make copies, then you may not. If it doesn't say anything about it, then you may archive it.

Simple as that, really.

Actually, those can and have been overturned before as being unconstitutional and/or unfair. For example, if an EULA says in it: "By playing this software you promise to never play another game by company X." that does not mean that by playing that you cannot do so or could have legal action taken against you... well you could, but they'd lose, badly.

Those EULA and other "use" policies are only enforcable IF the legal system agrees with it, and if the legal system disagrees there isn't much the company can do about it except find another case of it and try again, hoping that a different judge will turn it over or keep taking the case higher until they get what they want or it hits the top.

As for the PS3 "fiasco" being compared to the Zelda game release, that's much like comparing a bale of apples to an orange. There was likely some marketing ploy there to get people to play the Zelda game early, but the PS3's little "shortage" bit them in the backside; if I wanted to I could go out and buy about 5 PS3s right now, and those are only counting the ones I've seen on the shelf 4 days running. All the stores in my area are still out of Wii's as soon as they come in however.

Sony is trying to play it's hardware fence a bit too hard, I'd hoped they'd learn something from the PSP, but the PS3 just showed that they're sure enough of their customer base to do such things and still have no real repurcussions. Sadly there really isn't a lot of choices open to those of us who love some of the companies that are nearly married to the PS systems, meaning Sony CAN get away with it, just with lots of bad publicity.

The PS3 and PSP both include something I find fairly stupid: the weird media support. What in the heavens do I care about playing music or installing Linux on my PS3 for? My iPod OWNS my PSP hands down in quality, size, portability, battery-life, and lack of public embarassment, not to mention the likelyhood that you can take it into a retail store without being harassed as much. And for in the house, I can create a better Linux machine from spare parts lying around than a PS3 will EVER be. (Not to mention cheaper!)

My PSP was sadly upgraded to 3.01 before I saw this article, but even then I'm just not a big fan of having to beat down hardware to get it to do what I want when it's designed for a specific function. I bought my PSP to play games, and I have enough fun games that I feel it's finally somewhat worth my purchase. The PS3 will wait until I have a large surplus that I have nothing better to do with, I just recently got a sizable Christmas bonus, and it went to a brand new 32" LCD TV without hesitation; even seeing about a half dozen PS3's for less sitting on a shelf but 10 feet away.

I am most saddened that Sony has not yet released a way for me to play my already owned PS1 games on my PSP, it was the biggest hope I had when I heard the system was being released in the first place.

I guess my final point there was that; if homebrew is how you make a system fun, and it wasn't designed to do that, hasn't the system basically failed?

If YOU release a game and try to tell a serious story with a deep and rich plot, but everyone agrees it's like a comedy sketch and only funny, was that game really successful?

I guess I'm not too fond of having to "change" my equipment around to get it to do something I BOUGHT it to do well.

 

[Cokecakola]

I am most saddened that Sony has not yet released a way for me to play my already owned PS1 games on my PSP, it was the biggest hope I had when I heard the system was being released in the first place.

U cant play owned ps1 games, u need to own a ps3 to play PsX game by purchase online on Ps3.
and well wasnt much game release.

? My iPod OWNS my PSP hands down in quality, size, portability, battery-life, and lack of public embarassment

Haha ya sometimes i do think ipod is much better, in size and portability,
But i do like Psp game since i own psx and ps2 and future ps3.
lack of public embarassment, dont really think that any problem if u enjoy playing psp or other handheld.
battery-life psp win in watching video mp4.

By the way i dont think Sony will ever released.

 

[kip]

U cant play owned ps1 games, u need to own a ps3 to play PsX game by purchase online on Ps3.
and well wasnt much game release.

erm theres homebrew that only why i want a psp

 

[xmcdohlx]

yes, you can now "unofficially" play PS1 games on PSP, ANY. check 1st post mate.

 

[arcthemonkey]

Actually, those can and have been overturned before as being unconstitutional and/or unfair. For example, if an EULA says in it: "By playing this software you promise to never play another game by company X." that does not mean that by playing that you cannot do so or could have legal action taken against you... well you could, but they'd lose, badly.

Those EULA and other "use" policies are only enforcable IF the legal system agrees with it, and if the legal system disagrees there isn't much the company can do about it except find another case of it and try again, hoping that a different judge will turn it over or keep taking the case higher until they get what they want or it hits the top.

EULAs have been held up in court. Again, it depends on where you end up on trial. The 7th and 8th Circuits almost always uphold EULAs. However, this is all irrelavant seeing as how EULAs usually only give you rights (such as the right to make one backup) whereas the base U.S. Copyright law states clearly that you can archive software, but cannot use the archive..

As for you only buying the PSP to play homebrew, that's kind of silly. You buy a dreamcast to play homebrew.

 

[xmcdohlx]

well the buying a PSP for homebrew is indeed stupid. but it kinda depends on 2 things tho...
1-ur knowledge on homebrew
2-wether playing PSP ISOs is "homebrew". i think ISO loaders n that are more like "hack" cuz the UMD "reader" n PSX "emu" are done by Sony.

also PSP is a strong handheld itself without homebrew. Media player (audio, video and image), Internet Browser, RSS Channels, UMDs, online play, flash compatibility (lame atm tho, wish Sony would allow an option in the future to store Internet memory on the mem stick itself so u dont get lame "Not enough memory" messages and play larger flash files.

now, when comparing to the competition [Nintendo DS] PSP owns it in features, but the game library seems way more attractive to players it seems, specially in Japan. I myself prefer PSP, I dont own a DS n dont plan on getting one n yes i've played it, the fatso DS tho.

still, PSP is a powerful machine imo, its a very nice portable system, superior than IPOD in terms of capabilites, still a post above pretty much summed up why iPod > PSP in terms of media playing.

lol i dont even kno what im talkin bout now, anyway the homebrew scene is very nice, specially for emus, its always nice to have a big game library. unfortunately, the legality is, as you can see, highly discussed.

and as i said before, playing UMD ISOs and PSX ISOs is more like hack than homebrew?

 

[Marcus]

Oh hey xmcdohlx, you reminded me to bring up a point!

You know how every Nintendo DS fanboy spouts shit like "psp has no good games lawl", get a load of this.

http://www.pspfanboy.com/2007/01/03/debunking-a-psp-myth-it-has-no-good-games/

This guy went on Metacritic (which combines reviews from all the major sources much like gamerankings) and counted up EVERY DS and PSP game as of 1st of January 2007.

38 PSP games (not counting advent children although it was considered a game) have recieved a score of 80 or above.

28 DS games have recieved an 80 or above; 4 of those were the same game (Nintendogs and Brain Age)

So anyone who says the PSP doesn't have good games is just being a jerk. The games may not appeal to you and that's fine; everyone has opinions, but saying that it has no good games is completely untrue. Whenever you see someone say something stupid like that on another forum, please post the link I posted and tell them off.

and as i said before, playing UMD ISOs and PSX ISOs is more like hack than homebrew?

Actually, playing UMD's and PSX iso's is 100% sony. Popstation isn't a hack, it's a feature available (currently) only on the PS3. Popstation is just the distribution of the files from the PS3 (which is 100% free... although you need a ps3 to normally use it) so you can play the games without having to buy a $600 machine.

Being able to read iso's from a UMD was a feature added with Sony's 3.02 I believe.